Well, a casual can DREAM of completing a grouping-game, where it is simply impossible to even DREAM when it is raiding.
DREAMING is very important, and a raid-free server allow casuals to DREAM and HOPE that maybe, they can complete it, in their own time. While raiding, remove all dream, all hope.
how did you come to that conclusion? how can a casual player dream about group play when he does not have time to group? your argument is inconsistent at best, a casual gamer can only dream about casual content.
so using your argument i guess grouping kills dreaming as well, but since your a grouper that isn't a issue is it? what about people that like to solo exclusively? they cant dream about group content and items now can they?
your argument is beyond flawed, but keep on posting this garbage and i will keep on calling you out on it.
Originally posted by Vanguarde Also you should note that Brad has given VIP treatment to many major experienced guilds into vanguard especially us.
This is probably because you'd cry and make everyone in your guild vow to never play it if he didn't.
If no casual player played Vanguard, it would go under, period. Hardcore raiding is for the rich, the unemployed, bad parents and kids who still live with their parents. I have a full time job, a girlfriend and a life. I just don't have time to raid hardcore anymore nor do I want to. If you do I'm happy for you, but don't try and tell me or anyone else who can or can't play Vanguard.
I have been anticipating Vanguard for years and I will be playing it. The only reason I started this thread is because there is a huge audience that would love a non-raiding server. Look at the poll.
Also, people like me who aren't affiliated with any uber guild have been let into the beta too.
Your assumptions that hardcore gamers with no life is wrong. Many of our guildmates have hold jobs, and also go to college, as well as getting their girlfriends to play everquest, everquest2 ,and vanguard. Dont judge hardcore gamers harshly. We still committed 3-6 hours to raids and still have life outside the game. With careful planning of our daily life anyone can raid with few hours each day, this isnt just for hardcore gamers. I am referring to the casual gamers as well. And this is also the fact many of our members in the guild are willing to sacrifice couple hours on weekdays to do nightly raid too. Also i like to point out that "Casual Gamers" who claims they dont have time to do raids is wrong. MMOrpg.com poll doesn't show there are majority of the gamers that want "No Raid" ruleset server. You should try it on vanguard official forum, and i can tell you right now that many will oppose the idea of not wanting that ruleset. I know because Anofalye did it on vanguard official forum awhile back.
Well, a casual can DREAM of completing a grouping-game, where it is simply impossible to even DREAM when it is raiding.
DREAMING is very important, and a raid-free server allow casuals to DREAM and HOPE that maybe, they can complete it, in their own time. While raiding, remove all dream, all hope.
how did you come to that conclusion? how can a casual player dream about group play when he does not have time to group? your argument is inconsistent at best, a casual gamer can only dream about casual content.
so using your argument i guess grouping kills dreaming as well, but since your a grouper that isn't a issue is it? what about people that like to solo exclusively? they cant dream about group content and items now can they?
your argument is beyond flawed, but keep on posting this garbage and i will keep on calling you out on it.
A casual may have a full week-end here and there to complete the group content. You can't assume that a casual will NEVER be able to play for a full week-end, occasionnally...
A full week-end will grant the casuals the right to dream in a grouping game, no dream at all in a raiding game. A casual can group me for a full week-end and he will EARNS a LOT (chances on random toward to BEST loot). A casual who get a full week-end, even assuming Uber-guild003 let's him tag along, he won't get to /random on the BEST loot. He would in my group, and if I have already the item, all the better his chances.
Raid-free servers or die.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Vanguarde I know because Anofalye did it on vanguard official forum awhile back.
All he will see is that a tons of Vanbois where extremely rude despite the fact some hardcore raiders where defending me (not my point of view, but me); because they personnally know me.
As to the poll, a majority of player on every poll here at MMORPG.com shows that peoples want a raid-free server. Also, I never see more than 5% of the online population of any MMO currently raiding at ANY moment. Raiding appeal to a minority, yet, it is enforced on the majority, you can't expect to get no ill feeling from that in time.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by CylusSigil The defense for a non-raiding server by some people is a bit amusing. On one hand, they claim that raid gear trivializes group encounters for the players that raid and removes the skill needed for a well-balanced group encounter. Yet, on the other hand, they ask that that same raid gear be put on merchants or the same group encounters that they trivialize. Addition of raid gear to merchants or group content only accomplishes the exact same thing that the non-raiding proponents complain about: the trivialization of group encounters. Granted, there's a few ways to balance it but the easiest thing is to just remove those items from the game entirely on a non-raiding server.
I agree. I don't want to see it on vendors for that very reason.
In fact, I don't want gear that trivilizes level appropriate content at all, be it though raid gear, twinking, or otherwise. But that's because I actually want a challenging game, as opposed to saying I do and in the same breath urging game mechanics that allow players to trivialize the encounters through overpowered gear (just so that certain players or groups of players can enjoy a hierarchical status over others and feel "uber").
The same folks who say they want a challenging game frequently also want twinking and oppose a trivial loot system. That is very telling. When they say they want a challenging game, what they mean is they want it to be challenging for others.
Well said Amathe!
LOL.
THE GAME IS BALANCED WITH ALL GEARS. I want a challenging game, however, I will take a FAIR game over a challenging game if they come clashing at each other. Explaining the SAME things all over again is tiresome. I love challenges, not over fairness however. I am not a clown who would be happy to try naked an encounter while other players can have all type of bonuses...I will crave for FAIRNESS before challenge.
See, if on a raiding server someone group in a zone that I can't on a grouping server, that isn't fair. BEST GROUPERS HAVE TO BE GROUPERS. Give all raid gear automatically, freely, put it on merchant, make a group-system, whatever, but...the BEST GROUPERS HAVE TO BE GROUPERS, SERVERWIDE There is no compromise here, I will hunt Brad in the Nine Hells if need be!
Raid-free servers or die.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Vanguarde I know because Anofalye did it on vanguard official forum awhile back.
All he will see is that a tons of Vanbois where extremely rude despite the fact some hardcore raiders where defending me (not my point of view, but me); because they personnally know me.
As to the poll, a majority of player on every poll here at MMORPG.com shows that peoples want a raid-free server. Also, I never see more than 5% of the online population of any MMO currently raiding at ANY moment. Raiding appeal to a minority, yet, it is enforced on the majority, you can't expect to get no ill feeling from that in time.
Right, that "No Raiding Server" thread you made in Vanguard official forum was met with 20+ pages of flame from the Vanguard community. Look if you hate raiding so much there is LOTR you can play.
A casual may have a full week-end here and there to complete the group content. You can't assume that a casual will NEVER be able to play for a full week-end, occasionnally...
A full week-end will grant the casuals the right to dream in a grouping game, no dream at all in a raiding game. A casual can group me for a full week-end and he will EARNS a LOT. A casual who get a full week-end, even assuming Uber-guild003 let's him tag along, he won't get to /random on the BEST loot. He would in my group, and if I have already the item, all the better his chances.
Raid-free servers or die.
the same can be said for raiding, why couldn't a casual player raid on the weekend? you are assuming that a raid will take longer than a grouping experience.
and that may be true in some cases, but i have personally experienced raids in other games like wow and eq where it took less than 3 hours to kill a boss, and in wow quite a few bosses.
if a casual player plays all day on the weekend he can group or raid if he likes, he can dream of both. however during the days he can only play a hour or two all he can do is solo, he cannot dream of raiding or grouping.
also you said it yourself as long as you can dream of a item that it all that matters, so now your telling me he will earn more in a small group experience (witch is probably true) than he would in a raid.
but lets not change the subject, the point is grouping kills dreaming for a casual player just as much as raiding kills dreaming, twist it around all you want to support YOUR play style, but however you try to spin it... it is still hypocritical.
Originally posted by Vanguarde Originally posted by Anofalye Originally posted by Vanguarde I know because Anofalye did it on vanguard official forum awhile back.
All he will see is that a tons of Vanbois where extremely rude despite the fact some hardcore raiders where defending me (not my point of view, but me); because they personnally know me.
As to the poll, a majority of player on every poll here at MMORPG.com shows that peoples want a raid-free server. Also, I never see more than 5% of the online population of any MMO currently raiding at ANY moment. Raiding appeal to a minority, yet, it is enforced on the majority, you can't expect to get no ill feeling from that in time.
Right, that "No Raiding Server" thread you made in Vanguard official forum was met with 20+ pages of flame from the Vanguard community. Look if you hate raiding so much there is LOTR you can play.
As a final word on the subject I offer you the poll. Out of 84 votes, 57% of people think having a non-raiding server is a good idea and would play there.
Originally posted by anarchyart As a final word on the subject I offer you the poll. Out of 84 votes, 57% of people think having a non-raiding server is a good idea and would play there.
Now create a poll about who won't play because of 20% raiding, vs those that will & those that will even though they hate raiding...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Comments
how did you come to that conclusion? how can a casual player dream about group play when he does not have time to group? your argument is inconsistent at best, a casual gamer can only dream about casual content.
so using your argument i guess grouping kills dreaming as well, but since your a grouper that isn't a issue is it? what about people that like to solo exclusively? they cant dream about group content and items now can they?
your argument is beyond flawed, but keep on posting this garbage and i will keep on calling you out on it.
This is probably because you'd cry and make everyone in your guild vow to never play it if he didn't.
If no casual player played Vanguard, it would go under, period. Hardcore raiding is for the rich, the unemployed, bad parents and kids who still live with their parents. I have a full time job, a girlfriend and a life. I just don't have time to raid hardcore anymore nor do I want to. If you do I'm happy for you, but don't try and tell me or anyone else who can or can't play Vanguard.
I have been anticipating Vanguard for years and I will be playing it. The only reason I started this thread is because there is a huge audience that would love a non-raiding server. Look at the poll.
Also, people like me who aren't affiliated with any uber guild have been let into the beta too.
Your assumptions that hardcore gamers with no life is wrong. Many of our guildmates have hold jobs, and also go to college, as well as getting their girlfriends to play everquest, everquest2 ,and vanguard. Dont judge hardcore gamers harshly. We still committed 3-6 hours to raids and still have life outside the game. With careful planning of our daily life anyone can raid with few hours each day, this isnt just for hardcore gamers. I am referring to the casual gamers as well. And this is also the fact many of our members in the guild are willing to sacrifice couple hours on weekdays to do nightly raid too. Also i like to point out that "Casual Gamers" who claims they dont have time to do raids is wrong. MMOrpg.com poll doesn't show there are majority of the gamers that want "No Raid" ruleset server. You should try it on vanguard official forum, and i can tell you right now that many will oppose the idea of not wanting that ruleset. I know because Anofalye did it on vanguard official forum awhile back.
how did you come to that conclusion? how can a casual player dream about group play when he does not have time to group? your argument is inconsistent at best, a casual gamer can only dream about casual content.
so using your argument i guess grouping kills dreaming as well, but since your a grouper that isn't a issue is it? what about people that like to solo exclusively? they cant dream about group content and items now can they?
your argument is beyond flawed, but keep on posting this garbage and i will keep on calling you out on it.
A casual may have a full week-end here and there to complete the group content. You can't assume that a casual will NEVER be able to play for a full week-end, occasionnally...
A full week-end will grant the casuals the right to dream in a grouping game, no dream at all in a raiding game. A casual can group me for a full week-end and he will EARNS a LOT (chances on random toward to BEST loot). A casual who get a full week-end, even assuming Uber-guild003 let's him tag along, he won't get to /random on the BEST loot. He would in my group, and if I have already the item, all the better his chances.
Raid-free servers or die.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
All he will see is that a tons of Vanbois where extremely rude despite the fact some hardcore raiders where defending me (not my point of view, but me); because they personnally know me.
As to the poll, a majority of player on every poll here at MMORPG.com shows that peoples want a raid-free server. Also, I never see more than 5% of the online population of any MMO currently raiding at ANY moment. Raiding appeal to a minority, yet, it is enforced on the majority, you can't expect to get no ill feeling from that in time.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I agree. I don't want to see it on vendors for that very reason.
In fact, I don't want gear that trivilizes level appropriate content at all, be it though raid gear, twinking, or otherwise. But that's because I actually want a challenging game, as opposed to saying I do and in the same breath urging game mechanics that allow players to trivialize the encounters through overpowered gear (just so that certain players or groups of players can enjoy a hierarchical status over others and feel "uber").
The same folks who say they want a challenging game frequently also want twinking and oppose a trivial loot system. That is very telling. When they say they want a challenging game, what they mean is they want it to be challenging for others.
Well said Amathe!
LOL.
THE GAME IS BALANCED WITH ALL GEARS. I want a challenging game, however, I will take a FAIR game over a challenging game if they come clashing at each other. Explaining the SAME things all over again is tiresome. I love challenges, not over fairness however. I am not a clown who would be happy to try naked an encounter while other players can have all type of bonuses...I will crave for FAIRNESS before challenge.
See, if on a raiding server someone group in a zone that I can't on a grouping server, that isn't fair. BEST GROUPERS HAVE TO BE GROUPERS. Give all raid gear automatically, freely, put it on merchant, make a group-system, whatever, but...the BEST GROUPERS HAVE TO BE GROUPERS, SERVERWIDE There is no compromise here, I will hunt Brad in the Nine Hells if need be!
Raid-free servers or die.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
All he will see is that a tons of Vanbois where extremely rude despite the fact some hardcore raiders where defending me (not my point of view, but me); because they personnally know me.
As to the poll, a majority of player on every poll here at MMORPG.com shows that peoples want a raid-free server. Also, I never see more than 5% of the online population of any MMO currently raiding at ANY moment. Raiding appeal to a minority, yet, it is enforced on the majority, you can't expect to get no ill feeling from that in time.
Right, that "No Raiding Server" thread you made in Vanguard official forum was met with 20+ pages of flame from the Vanguard community. Look if you hate raiding so much there is LOTR you can play.
the same can be said for raiding, why couldn't a casual player raid on the weekend? you are assuming that a raid will take longer than a grouping experience.
and that may be true in some cases, but i have personally experienced raids in other games like wow and eq where it took less than 3 hours to kill a boss, and in wow quite a few bosses.
if a casual player plays all day on the weekend he can group or raid if he likes, he can dream of both. however during the days he can only play a hour or two all he can do is solo, he cannot dream of raiding or grouping.
also you said it yourself as long as you can dream of a item that it all that matters, so now your telling me he will earn more in a small group experience (witch is probably true) than he would in a raid.
but lets not change the subject, the point is grouping kills dreaming for a casual player just as much as raiding kills dreaming, twist it around all you want to support YOUR play style, but however you try to spin it... it is still hypocritical.
All he will see is that a tons of Vanbois where extremely rude despite the fact some hardcore raiders where defending me (not my point of view, but me); because they personnally know me.
As to the poll, a majority of player on every poll here at MMORPG.com shows that peoples want a raid-free server. Also, I never see more than 5% of the online population of any MMO currently raiding at ANY moment. Raiding appeal to a minority, yet, it is enforced on the majority, you can't expect to get no ill feeling from that in time.
Right, that "No Raiding Server" thread you made in Vanguard official forum was met with 20+ pages of flame from the Vanguard community. Look if you hate raiding so much there is LOTR you can play.
Guild Wars 2 is my religion
I am the Cannon Fodder God
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
1. It makes people happy that don't want to raid.
2. It does not affect people that want to raid because they will be on different servers.