[quote]Originally posted by Copeland [b][quote]Originally posted by Effect
Originally posted by Caetris
You need to download a program to monitor all connections being made to your PC. You'd be surprised how many times a day your pc is being scanned by various organizations such as the CIA, FBI, MPAA and hackers. Blizzards just trying to stop cheaters. These other organizations are trying to find things they can either arrest you for, sue you over or take advantage of for profit.
Here's a scarey scenario:
Earlier this year a Federal law was passed in the United States that states having child porn whether knowingly or unknowingly on your pc is illegal. This means you don't have to actively go to a child porn website or download child porn to break the law. Intent is no longer a determining factor. So say someone doesn't like you. They happen to know your IP. They happen to know how to connect to your pc. They happen to have some child porn. Poof they put it in a nice hidden folder that you'll never see. 2 days later you have an FBI agent kicking your door in to arrest you and sieze your computer which just happens to have 2000 pics of little girls doing rude things to little boys just like their super secret informant had told them. In this day and age you don't even need an enemy. People could be doing it just for kicks.
Every time i see someone get arrested for kiddie porn these days i cringe and really wonder if they were set up. The scariest thing of all is that there is absolutely no way to completely lock down your pc and stay on the net. So we're all open to this sort of attack. Now is what Blizzard is doing really all that bad in the grand scheme of things? [/b][/quote]
Copeland is right. get a program called peerguardian. Don't worry about setting it to block anything, just open the log to actively watch the attempted connections to your computer. You'd be amazed.
Originally posted by Tans I had said this in an earlier topic:
Warden's activities are very highly exaggerated.
Warden recurses through all of your open windows, and takes each and every string that is in the window. This means it reads text like: - the window title - all of your open tabs in firefox - the content of those tabs - information in any textboxes (message posting, username, passwords) - what track you are listening to in winamp, windows media player, etc.
Invasion of privacy? It would be, except it's not. Why?
Warden does not actually "read", "understand" or report the text to anyone, anywhere. It is not transmitted to Blizzard. They will never see it.
What Warden does is compares each string to a table of "hashes". Let's make an example.
Text, hash: (note the text is not actually stored, only the hash and an ID) WoW bot 1, fedcba0987654321 (ID#1) WoW bot 2, 0192837465fadcbe (ID#2)
So Warden is going through your open windows, this is what it sees: Microsoft Internet Explorer, 1234567890abcdef Winamp, 9ab4c6534c57ba23
1. Warden goes through it's list and compares 1234567890abcdef to each hash in the list. 2. It doesn't match, the text is discarded. 3. Warden goes through it's list and compares 9ab4c6534c57ba23 to each hash in the list. 4. It doesn't match, the text is discarded.
Let's say you have the program "WoW bot 1" open. Warden will take the window title and hash it to fedcba0987654321. It will run through it's list and recognise that it matches ID #1. It will report to Blizzard that a positive match was found, and that it matched ID #1. The GMs will now test your account using various methods to determine if you are running a bot. If it's determined that you are (and they aren't usually wrong, but check out the Cedega scandal) you will be banned.
So as you can see, Blizzard actually DOESN'T invade your privacy.
Then why is it going out and opening your Internet Explorer cookies and history file as the screenshot indicates? In the screenshot the following files are being held open by the process WoW.exe.
*Local SettingsTemporary Internet filesContent.IE5index.dat
*cookiesindex.dat
*Local SettingsHistoryHistory.IE5index.dat
There is simply no reason for Blizzard to be reading these files. I dont rule out the possibility that WoW.exe is simply getting caught up in some of the dumb stuff Microsoft does with mshtml.dll but unless thats documented I want to know why WoW.exe is going out and opening my IE history and cookies.
Originally posted by Copeland Originally posted by DarkentwoOriginally posted by Copeland Originally posted by LordSlater Lol im glad i dont play Waaacraft so this is not a problem
Every game has a similar function. How do you think GM's catch cheaters? Blizzard is doing nothing different than every other game developer.
Care to name a few games that have a similar function. Making blanket statements is one thing, proving it is another.
I don't really care about WoW, but I still don't see why they need to scan a persons web browser.
I don't know much about how this works, but how difficult is to to say, retrieve someone bank details if they are using an online banking service. Isn't this something thats probably goign to be a potential liability at some point.
EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, SoR, Guild Wars... Every major game has anti cheat code that has similar abilities.
The minute you turn on your modem you are open to all that from much more devious people. Blizzard already has a credit card number if they wanted they could charge you for 5 years LOL. You're living with rose colored glasses if you think any part of your pc is secure the minute that modem is turned on. I don't care what kind of firewall you have. Even IP blockers can be beat rather simply.
As I play eve, I know that the eve software does not include anything that scans your harddrive or your Internet explorere. The only thing it does is make an integrety test on your installation folder.
And I wasn't talking about Blizzard taking sensitive information from you. What I menat is whats to stop a Blizzard employee for example from extracting your bank details like username and password from the warden scanning your Internet explorer.
And no need to get all defensive. You aren't married to Blizzard are you.
Ps. All all well and good claiming a bunch of games scan your harddrive and internet explorer. Its quite another providing any kind of proof.
PPS. I am well aware that I am open to attack teh moment I turn on my modem. I can live with the fact that I must constantly be on the lookout for unscrouplous criminal elements attacking my pc. Its quite another thing when a company whom I pay money to to provide me a serice, use sneaky tactics to snoop on my PC and then provide cheesy explanations as to what they do and why they do it.
Originally posted by Zorvan [quote]Originally posted by Copeland [b][quote]Originally posted by EffectOriginally posted by Caetris
You need to download a program to monitor all connections being made to your PC. You'd be surprised how many times a day your pc is being scanned by various organizations such as the CIA, FBI, MPAA and hackers. Blizzards just trying to stop cheaters. These other organizations are trying to find things they can either arrest you for, sue you over or take advantage of for profit.
Here's a scarey scenario:
Earlier this year a Federal law was passed in the United States that states having child porn whether knowingly or unknowingly on your pc is illegal. This means you don't have to actively go to a child porn website or download child porn to break the law. Intent is no longer a determining factor. So say someone doesn't like you. They happen to know your IP. They happen to know how to connect to your pc. They happen to have some child porn. Poof they put it in a nice hidden folder that you'll never see. 2 days later you have an FBI agent kicking your door in to arrest you and sieze your computer which just happens to have 2000 pics of little girls doing rude things to little boys just like their super secret informant had told them. In this day and age you don't even need an enemy. People could be doing it just for kicks.
Every time i see someone get arrested for kiddie porn these days i cringe and really wonder if they were set up. The scariest thing of all is that there is absolutely no way to completely lock down your pc and stay on the net. So we're all open to this sort of attack. Now is what Blizzard is doing really all that bad in the grand scheme of things? [/b][/quote]
Copeland is right. get a program called peerguardian. Don't worry about setting it to block anything, just open the log to actively watch the attempted connections to your computer. You'd be amazed.
Not all of us live in the US so those scary laws really don't apply to all of us. In most other countries, I would imagine snooping on your computer without a court order would mean any evidence they manage to gather would be void in a court of law.
And if Blizzard is trying to stop cheaters, how does going through somebodys internet history and cookies, help them fulfill that goal? It makes no sense and seems more like Blizzard is making a database on their users.
I highly doubt its for any nefarious purpose as such. Quite likely, its to see which sites to spend advertising money on or some such reason....but that still aint right.
Originally posted by Darkentwo Originally posted by Copeland Originally posted by DarkentwoOriginally posted by Copeland Originally posted by LordSlater Lol im glad i dont play Waaacraft so this is not a problem
Every game has a similar function. How do you think GM's catch cheaters? Blizzard is doing nothing different than every other game developer.
Care to name a few games that have a similar function. Making blanket statements is one thing, proving it is another.
I don't really care about WoW, but I still don't see why they need to scan a persons web browser.
I don't know much about how this works, but how difficult is to to say, retrieve someone bank details if they are using an online banking service. Isn't this something thats probably goign to be a potential liability at some point.
EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, SoR, Guild Wars... Every major game has anti cheat code that has similar abilities.
The minute you turn on your modem you are open to all that from much more devious people. Blizzard already has a credit card number if they wanted they could charge you for 5 years LOL. You're living with rose colored glasses if you think any part of your pc is secure the minute that modem is turned on. I don't care what kind of firewall you have. Even IP blockers can be beat rather simply.
As I play eve, I know that the eve software does not include anything that scans your harddrive or your Internet explorere. The only thing it does is make an integrety test on your installation folder.
And I wasn't talking about Blizzard taking sensitive information from you. What I menat is whats to stop a Blizzard employee for example from extracting your bank details like username and password from the warden scanning your Internet explorer.
And no need to get all defensive. You aren't married to Blizzard are you.
Ps. All all well and good claiming a bunch of games scan your harddrive and internet explorer. Its quite another providing any kind of proof.
PPS. I am well aware that I am open to attack teh moment I turn on my modem. I can live with the fact that I must constantly be on the lookout for unscrouplous criminal elements attacking my pc. Its quite another thing when a company whom I pay money to to provide me a serice, use sneaky tactics to snoop on my PC and then provide cheesy explanations as to what they do and why they do it.
Why would i be defensive? I'm the paranoid conspiracy theorist of the thread. All i'm saying is what Blizzard is doing isn't any worse than any other mmo company. Actually you'd be surprised. Most games unlike WoW keep their activities very secret so that cheaters won't know whats going on. SOE won't tell you. CCP won't tell you. It doesnt mean that it isn't happening it just means they aren't open with it.
I searched my comp ran everything that has never shown up for some reason. But i reasearched it more and its not hurting you at all. Unless they actually Keylog your passwords or credit card info. Its not harmful and not illegal. Read their ToS
Originally posted by Copeland Originally posted by Darkentwo Originally posted by Copeland Originally posted by DarkentwoOriginally posted by Copeland Originally posted by LordSlater Lol im glad i dont play Waaacraft so this is not a problem
Every game has a similar function. How do you think GM's catch cheaters? Blizzard is doing nothing different than every other game developer.
Care to name a few games that have a similar function. Making blanket statements is one thing, proving it is another.
I don't really care about WoW, but I still don't see why they need to scan a persons web browser.
I don't know much about how this works, but how difficult is to to say, retrieve someone bank details if they are using an online banking service. Isn't this something thats probably goign to be a potential liability at some point.
EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, SoR, Guild Wars... Every major game has anti cheat code that has similar abilities.
The minute you turn on your modem you are open to all that from much more devious people. Blizzard already has a credit card number if they wanted they could charge you for 5 years LOL. You're living with rose colored glasses if you think any part of your pc is secure the minute that modem is turned on. I don't care what kind of firewall you have. Even IP blockers can be beat rather simply.
As I play eve, I know that the eve software does not include anything that scans your harddrive or your Internet explorere. The only thing it does is make an integrety test on your installation folder.
And I wasn't talking about Blizzard taking sensitive information from you. What I menat is whats to stop a Blizzard employee for example from extracting your bank details like username and password from the warden scanning your Internet explorer.
And no need to get all defensive. You aren't married to Blizzard are you.
Ps. All all well and good claiming a bunch of games scan your harddrive and internet explorer. Its quite another providing any kind of proof.
PPS. I am well aware that I am open to attack teh moment I turn on my modem. I can live with the fact that I must constantly be on the lookout for unscrouplous criminal elements attacking my pc. Its quite another thing when a company whom I pay money to to provide me a serice, use sneaky tactics to snoop on my PC and then provide cheesy explanations as to what they do and why they do it.
Why would i be defensive? I'm the paranoid conspiracy theorist of the thread. All i'm saying is what Blizzard is doing isn't any worse than any other mmo company. Actually you'd be surprised. Most games unlike WoW keep their activities very secret so that cheaters won't know whats going on. SOE won't tell you. CCP won't tell you. It doesnt mean that it isn't happening it just means they aren't open with it.
No you misunderstand me. I am not talking about Blizzard or Wow I am challenging you notion that since everyone is doing it, its alright.
Plus if SOE or CCP were doing it, I am sure atleast one of the few hundred thousand players who play their games, would have found any such spy.
I cannot accept an argument that because online criminals are doing it all teh time, its ok for legitimate companies to take my money for a product and then do such a thing. The world is turning into a "Brave New World" every day. Doesnt mean all of us have to take it lying down like you seem to be willing to do.
I don't mean to be insulting mate, but I just get irritated that people seem to be more and more willing to take any shit trown at them on the face and then claim it tasted like Strawberry Chesscake. It may be a sign of the times or I might be getting old but it still aint right.
The real reason I think people put up with it is probably because they have been crapped on by some many gaming companies with shoddy products, taht when one ok game comes along, they are willing to put up with anything.
Originally posted by Darkentwo Originally posted by Copeland Originally posted by DarkentwoOriginally posted by Copeland Originally posted by DarkentwoOriginally posted by Copeland Originally posted by LordSlater Lol im glad i dont play Waaacraft so this is not a problem
Every game has a similar function. How do you think GM's catch cheaters? Blizzard is doing nothing different than every other game developer.
Care to name a few games that have a similar function. Making blanket statements is one thing, proving it is another.
I don't really care about WoW, but I still don't see why they need to scan a persons web browser.
I don't know much about how this works, but how difficult is to to say, retrieve someone bank details if they are using an online banking service. Isn't this something thats probably goign to be a potential liability at some point.
EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, SoR, Guild Wars... Every major game has anti cheat code that has similar abilities.
The minute you turn on your modem you are open to all that from much more devious people. Blizzard already has a credit card number if they wanted they could charge you for 5 years LOL. You're living with rose colored glasses if you think any part of your pc is secure the minute that modem is turned on. I don't care what kind of firewall you have. Even IP blockers can be beat rather simply.
As I play eve, I know that the eve software does not include anything that scans your harddrive or your Internet explorere. The only thing it does is make an integrety test on your installation folder.
And I wasn't talking about Blizzard taking sensitive information from you. What I menat is whats to stop a Blizzard employee for example from extracting your bank details like username and password from the warden scanning your Internet explorer.
And no need to get all defensive. You aren't married to Blizzard are you.
Ps. All all well and good claiming a bunch of games scan your harddrive and internet explorer. Its quite another providing any kind of proof.
PPS. I am well aware that I am open to attack teh moment I turn on my modem. I can live with the fact that I must constantly be on the lookout for unscrouplous criminal elements attacking my pc. Its quite another thing when a company whom I pay money to to provide me a serice, use sneaky tactics to snoop on my PC and then provide cheesy explanations as to what they do and why they do it.
Why would i be defensive? I'm the paranoid conspiracy theorist of the thread. All i'm saying is what Blizzard is doing isn't any worse than any other mmo company. Actually you'd be surprised. Most games unlike WoW keep their activities very secret so that cheaters won't know whats going on. SOE won't tell you. CCP won't tell you. It doesnt mean that it isn't happening it just means they aren't open with it.
No you misunderstand me. I am not talking about Blizzard or Wow I am challenging you notion that since everyone is doing it, its alright.
Plus if SOE or CCP were doing it, I am sure atleast one of the few hundred thousand players who play their games, would have found any such spy.
I cannot accept an argument that because online criminals are doing it all teh time, its ok for legitimate companies to take my money for a product and then do such a thing. The world is turning into a "Brave New World" every day. Doesnt mean all of us have to take it lying down like you seem to be willing to do.
I don't mean to be insulting mate, but I just get irritated that people seem to be more and more willing to take any shit trown at them on the face and then claim it tasted like Strawberry Chesscake. It may be a sign of the times or I might be getting old but it still aint right.
The real reason I think people put up with it is probably because they have been crapped on by some many gaming companies with shoddy products, taht when one ok game comes along, they are willing to put up with anything.
Live in denial if you want. I'm not taking it lying down. I don't play WoW because it's a crap game. But i understand from the start that these companies monitor players computers for cheating. I also understand that these companies are the least of my worries.
Originally posted by Mobrien1980 I always use Punkbuster when it's available also. I like my games to be scanned for cheats and I would be pissed too if Blizzard wasn't doing it.
This isnt about scanning your game files for cheats its about WoW monitoring which web sites you visit.
I thought it was talking about both. I don't think it should scan your complete browsing history but I think it's ok to scan for cheats. I think your browsing history is rather personal and should be kept private.
Originally posted by Copeland Originally posted by Darkentwo Originally posted by Copeland Originally posted by DarkentwoOriginally posted by Copeland Originally posted by DarkentwoOriginally posted by Copeland Originally posted by LordSlater Lol im glad i dont play Waaacraft so this is not a problem
Every game has a similar function. How do you think GM's catch cheaters? Blizzard is doing nothing different than every other game developer.
Care to name a few games that have a similar function. Making blanket statements is one thing, proving it is another.
I don't really care about WoW, but I still don't see why they need to scan a persons web browser.
I don't know much about how this works, but how difficult is to to say, retrieve someone bank details if they are using an online banking service. Isn't this something thats probably goign to be a potential liability at some point.
EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, SoR, Guild Wars... Every major game has anti cheat code that has similar abilities.
The minute you turn on your modem you are open to all that from much more devious people. Blizzard already has a credit card number if they wanted they could charge you for 5 years LOL. You're living with rose colored glasses if you think any part of your pc is secure the minute that modem is turned on. I don't care what kind of firewall you have. Even IP blockers can be beat rather simply.
As I play eve, I know that the eve software does not include anything that scans your harddrive or your Internet explorere. The only thing it does is make an integrety test on your installation folder.
And I wasn't talking about Blizzard taking sensitive information from you. What I menat is whats to stop a Blizzard employee for example from extracting your bank details like username and password from the warden scanning your Internet explorer.
And no need to get all defensive. You aren't married to Blizzard are you.
Ps. All all well and good claiming a bunch of games scan your harddrive and internet explorer. Its quite another providing any kind of proof.
PPS. I am well aware that I am open to attack teh moment I turn on my modem. I can live with the fact that I must constantly be on the lookout for unscrouplous criminal elements attacking my pc. Its quite another thing when a company whom I pay money to to provide me a serice, use sneaky tactics to snoop on my PC and then provide cheesy explanations as to what they do and why they do it.
Why would i be defensive? I'm the paranoid conspiracy theorist of the thread. All i'm saying is what Blizzard is doing isn't any worse than any other mmo company. Actually you'd be surprised. Most games unlike WoW keep their activities very secret so that cheaters won't know whats going on. SOE won't tell you. CCP won't tell you. It doesnt mean that it isn't happening it just means they aren't open with it.
No you misunderstand me. I am not talking about Blizzard or Wow I am challenging you notion that since everyone is doing it, its alright.
Plus if SOE or CCP were doing it, I am sure atleast one of the few hundred thousand players who play their games, would have found any such spy.
I cannot accept an argument that because online criminals are doing it all teh time, its ok for legitimate companies to take my money for a product and then do such a thing. The world is turning into a "Brave New World" every day. Doesnt mean all of us have to take it lying down like you seem to be willing to do.
I don't mean to be insulting mate, but I just get irritated that people seem to be more and more willing to take any shit trown at them on the face and then claim it tasted like Strawberry Chesscake. It may be a sign of the times or I might be getting old but it still aint right.
The real reason I think people put up with it is probably because they have been crapped on by some many gaming companies with shoddy products, taht when one ok game comes along, they are willing to put up with anything.
Live in denial if you want. I'm not taking it lying down. I don't play WoW because it's a crap game. But i understand from the start that these companies monitor players computers for cheating. I also understand that these companies are the least of my worries.
I don't paly WoW either and I don't really care. It's just the concept that pisses me off. I understand monitoring for cheating but scanning a persons Browsing History or Cookies, is not part of that as far as I am aware. Maybe its just a software malfunction but if it isn't, it still might not be a danger in any way....but it is still an intrusion.
And yes I agree, these companies are the least of our worries....however, these companies are large commercial entities with a physical presence. This isn't some shadowy hacker we are talking about. Atleast if someone hacked into my system, I could console myself saying I didnt take adequate protection or that he was too good to stop and there is no way I could do anythign against him because as I said, he is a shadowy hacker on the interent. But a company like Blizzard who take money from people to provide them a service, doing the same thing, should not be acceptable.
It isn't a question of security...it's more a question of privacy. Hypothetically speaking and a completely over the top example, tomorrow if Blizzard stated remotely hijacking peoples webcams and start spying on them that way, would that be acceptable too?
Originally posted by Mobrien1980 I thought it was talking about both. I don't think it should scan your complete browsing history but I think it's ok to scan for cheats. I think your browsing history is rather personal and should be kept private.
The OPs link is about Blizzard (apparently) scanning your browsing history. No one has criticized them for simply scanning game files for cheats.
The only reason scanning game files for cheats came up at all was because some people didnt understand what the link was saying. (Or did understand but deliberately tried to sidetrack the discussion)
Since Blizzard isn't publishing or using this info to spam your email with "since you surf here we'd thought you'd like this" I don't see a problem with it. If it is true, seems more like they are just scanning for cheats rather than gathering information on the player. Though it's really just a guess by the OP that this is WoW doing the scanning, could be IE since the news launcher uses it.
Besides do you think Blizzard cares that after you're done grouping with some night elf chicks you then go to Lapdances.com?
Originally posted by DrowNoble Besides do you think Blizzard cares that after you're done grouping with some night elf chicks you then go to Lapdances.com?
I figure they are just trying to figure out where to next invest all the money they are raking in....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't paly WoW either and I don't really care. It's just the concept that pisses me off. I understand monitoring for cheating but scanning a persons Browsing History or Cookies, is not part of that as far as I am aware. Maybe its just a software malfunction but if it isn't, it still might not be a danger in any way....but it is still an intrusion.
And yes I agree, these companies are the least of our worries....however, these companies are large commercial entities with a physical presence. This isn't some shadowy hacker we are talking about. Atleast if someone hacked into my system, I could console myself saying I didnt take adequate protection or that he was too good to stop and there is no way I could do anythign against him because as I said, he is a shadowy hacker on the interent. But a company like Blizzard who take money from people to provide them a service, doing the same thing, should not be acceptable.
It isn't a question of security...it's more a question of privacy. Hypothetically speaking and a completely over the top example, tomorrow if Blizzard stated remotely hijacking peoples webcams and start spying on them that way, would that be acceptable too?
The point is that your perceived privacy on the net is non existant. In fact the american government doesn't recognize that items stored on your pc are your personal property thusly they don't need a warrant to search your computer. They do need a warrant to come into your home and search it but they can search it all they want remotely. It is in fact thinking like your that deludes the majority of internet users. Your computer is not private. They call the internet the information superhighway. Well think of your pc as the car that drives that highway. Your car has windows and anyone who drives by or walks by when its parked can see exactly what you have in it. They aren't breaking the law by doing so. Ultimately you have to forego any illusion of privacy on the net. You have to take responsibility for what sites you go to and what software you install. If you can't prevent rogue software from being installed you need to disconnect now. If you don't like companies spying on where you go then you should never surf. I'm not saying sit back and take it. By all means write your elected official and demand change. That is after all your only recourse outside of getting a masters in info tech and learning everything possible and defending yourself.
" Name: skt Time:11-27 08:23:12 Not very bright are you?
The 'Breaking News' displayed on the login page uses an IE control to access the WoW site for the news. As it loads the IE control, it has to run through the standard IE start-up procedure. Which is what it's doing there.. It's not WoW accessing the folder, it's IE. "
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
Originally posted by Copeland Originally posted by darkentwo I don't paly WoW either and I don't really care. It's just the concept that pisses me off. I understand monitoring for cheating but scanning a persons Browsing History or Cookies, is not part of that as far as I am aware. Maybe its just a software malfunction but if it isn't, it still might not be a danger in any way....but it is still an intrusion. And yes I agree, these companies are the least of our worries....however, these companies are large commercial entities with a physical presence. This isn't some shadowy hacker we are talking about. Atleast if someone hacked into my system, I could console myself saying I didnt take adequate protection or that he was too good to stop and there is no way I could do anythign against him because as I said, he is a shadowy hacker on the interent. But a company like Blizzard who take money from people to provide them a service, doing the same thing, should not be acceptable. It isn't a question of security...it's more a question of privacy. Hypothetically speaking and a completely over the top example, tomorrow if Blizzard stated remotely hijacking peoples webcams and start spying on them that way, would that be acceptable too?
The point is that your perceived privacy on the net is non existant. In fact the american government doesn't recognize that items stored on your pc are your personal property thusly they don't need a warrant to search your computer. They do need a warrant to come into your home and search it but they can search it all they want remotely. It is in fact thinking like your that deludes the majority of internet users. Your computer is not private. They call the internet the information superhighway. Well think of your pc as the car that drives that highway. Your car has windows and anyone who drives by or walks by when its parked can see exactly what you have in it. They aren't breaking the law by doing so. Ultimately you have to forego any illusion of privacy on the net. You have to take responsibility for what sites you go to and what software you install. If you can't prevent rogue software from being installed you need to disconnect now. If you don't like companies spying on where you go then you should never surf. I'm not saying sit back and take it. By all means write your elected official and demand change. That is after all your only recourse outside of getting a masters in info tech and learning everything possible and defending yourself.
We should think on this matter from 2 sides. Do we want botters in-game? or Do we want Blizzard having our private information? I would say it is impossible to find a botter unless you see some private data. As I remember I've read somewhere that Blizzard do not scan all the people like that only the one that got reported ingame at least couple of times(I think they need permission from the "guy above" to scan someones computer with their warden). If it is true then it is fine with me and I think most of the players couse most of the players are not botters and all our private data should be safe.
Originally posted by grunty From the webpage posted by the original poster: " Name: skt Time:11-27 08:23:12 Not very bright are you? The 'Breaking News' displayed on the login page uses an IE control to access the WoW site for the news. As it loads the IE control, it has to run through the standard IE start-up procedure. Which is what it's doing there.. It's not WoW accessing the folder, it's IE. "
I agree grunty I think that is more likely than Blizzard gathering the surfing habits of dudes making too many elf chick dance videos.
Did any of you even both to read the comments posted.
Somone named SKT wrote:
The 'Breaking News' displayed on the login page uses an IE control to access the WoW site for the news. As it loads the IE control, it has to run through the standard IE start-up procedure. Which is what it's doing there.. It's not WoW accessing the folder, it's IE.
So what is the point of this thread again?
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they do they get accused of spying and privacy invasion, if they don't they get accused of doing nothing to stop the hackers, cheaters, and gold famers.
Comments
[quote]Originally posted by Copeland
You need to download a program to monitor all connections being made to your PC. You'd be surprised how many times a day your pc is being scanned by various organizations such as the CIA, FBI, MPAA and hackers. Blizzards just trying to stop cheaters. These other organizations are trying to find things they can either arrest you for, sue you over or take advantage of for profit.[b][quote]Originally posted by Effect
Here's a scarey scenario:
Earlier this year a Federal law was passed in the United States that states having child porn whether knowingly or unknowingly on your pc is illegal. This means you don't have to actively go to a child porn website or download child porn to break the law. Intent is no longer a determining factor. So say someone doesn't like you. They happen to know your IP. They happen to know how to connect to your pc. They happen to have some child porn. Poof they put it in a nice hidden folder that you'll never see. 2 days later you have an FBI agent kicking your door in to arrest you and sieze your computer which just happens to have 2000 pics of little girls doing rude things to little boys just like their super secret informant had told them. In this day and age you don't even need an enemy. People could be doing it just for kicks.
Every time i see someone get arrested for kiddie porn these days i cringe and really wonder if they were set up. The scariest thing of all is that there is absolutely no way to completely lock down your pc and stay on the net. So we're all open to this sort of attack. Now is what Blizzard is doing really all that bad in the grand scheme of things?
[/b][/quote]
Copeland is right. get a program called peerguardian. Don't worry about setting it to block anything, just open the log to actively watch the attempted connections to your computer. You'd be amazed.
Then why is it going out and opening your Internet Explorer cookies and history file as the screenshot indicates? In the screenshot the following files are being held open by the process WoW.exe.
*Local SettingsTemporary Internet filesContent.IE5index.dat
*cookiesindex.dat
*Local SettingsHistoryHistory.IE5index.dat
There is simply no reason for Blizzard to be reading these files. I dont rule out the possibility that WoW.exe is simply getting caught up in some of the dumb stuff Microsoft does with mshtml.dll but unless thats documented I want to know why WoW.exe is going out and opening my IE history and cookies.
Every game has a similar function. How do you think GM's catch cheaters? Blizzard is doing nothing different than every other game developer.
Care to name a few games that have a similar function. Making blanket statements is one thing, proving it is another.
I don't really care about WoW, but I still don't see why they need to scan a persons web browser.
I don't know much about how this works, but how difficult is to to say, retrieve someone bank details if they are using an online banking service. Isn't this something thats probably goign to be a potential liability at some point.
EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, SoR, Guild Wars... Every major game has anti cheat code that has similar abilities.
The minute you turn on your modem you are open to all that from much more devious people. Blizzard already has a credit card number if they wanted they could charge you for 5 years LOL. You're living with rose colored glasses if you think any part of your pc is secure the minute that modem is turned on. I don't care what kind of firewall you have. Even IP blockers can be beat rather simply.
As I play eve, I know that the eve software does not include anything that scans your harddrive or your Internet explorere. The only thing it does is make an integrety test on your installation folder.
And I wasn't talking about Blizzard taking sensitive information from you. What I menat is whats to stop a Blizzard employee for example from extracting your bank details like username and password from the warden scanning your Internet explorer.
And no need to get all defensive. You aren't married to Blizzard are you.
Ps. All all well and good claiming a bunch of games scan your harddrive and internet explorer. Its quite another providing any kind of proof.
PPS. I am well aware that I am open to attack teh moment I turn on my modem. I can live with the fact that I must constantly be on the lookout for unscrouplous criminal elements attacking my pc. Its quite another thing when a company whom I pay money to to provide me a serice, use sneaky tactics to snoop on my PC and then provide cheesy explanations as to what they do and why they do it.
Here's a scarey scenario:
Earlier this year a Federal law was passed in the United States that states having child porn whether knowingly or unknowingly on your pc is illegal. This means you don't have to actively go to a child porn website or download child porn to break the law. Intent is no longer a determining factor. So say someone doesn't like you. They happen to know your IP. They happen to know how to connect to your pc. They happen to have some child porn. Poof they put it in a nice hidden folder that you'll never see. 2 days later you have an FBI agent kicking your door in to arrest you and sieze your computer which just happens to have 2000 pics of little girls doing rude things to little boys just like their super secret informant had told them. In this day and age you don't even need an enemy. People could be doing it just for kicks.
Every time i see someone get arrested for kiddie porn these days i cringe and really wonder if they were set up. The scariest thing of all is that there is absolutely no way to completely lock down your pc and stay on the net. So we're all open to this sort of attack. Now is what Blizzard is doing really all that bad in the grand scheme of things?
[/b][/quote]
Copeland is right. get a program called peerguardian. Don't worry about setting it to block anything, just open the log to actively watch the attempted connections to your computer. You'd be amazed.
Not all of us live in the US so those scary laws really don't apply to all of us. In most other countries, I would imagine snooping on your computer without a court order would mean any evidence they manage to gather would be void in a court of law.
And if Blizzard is trying to stop cheaters, how does going through somebodys internet history and cookies, help them fulfill that goal? It makes no sense and seems more like Blizzard is making a database on their users.
I highly doubt its for any nefarious purpose as such. Quite likely, its to see which sites to spend advertising money on or some such reason....but that still aint right.
Every game has a similar function. How do you think GM's catch cheaters? Blizzard is doing nothing different than every other game developer.
Care to name a few games that have a similar function. Making blanket statements is one thing, proving it is another.
I don't really care about WoW, but I still don't see why they need to scan a persons web browser.
I don't know much about how this works, but how difficult is to to say, retrieve someone bank details if they are using an online banking service. Isn't this something thats probably goign to be a potential liability at some point.
EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, SoR, Guild Wars... Every major game has anti cheat code that has similar abilities.
The minute you turn on your modem you are open to all that from much more devious people. Blizzard already has a credit card number if they wanted they could charge you for 5 years LOL. You're living with rose colored glasses if you think any part of your pc is secure the minute that modem is turned on. I don't care what kind of firewall you have. Even IP blockers can be beat rather simply.
As I play eve, I know that the eve software does not include anything that scans your harddrive or your Internet explorere. The only thing it does is make an integrety test on your installation folder.
And I wasn't talking about Blizzard taking sensitive information from you. What I menat is whats to stop a Blizzard employee for example from extracting your bank details like username and password from the warden scanning your Internet explorer.
And no need to get all defensive. You aren't married to Blizzard are you.
Ps. All all well and good claiming a bunch of games scan your harddrive and internet explorer. Its quite another providing any kind of proof.
PPS. I am well aware that I am open to attack teh moment I turn on my modem. I can live with the fact that I must constantly be on the lookout for unscrouplous criminal elements attacking my pc. Its quite another thing when a company whom I pay money to to provide me a serice, use sneaky tactics to snoop on my PC and then provide cheesy explanations as to what they do and why they do it.
Why would i be defensive? I'm the paranoid conspiracy theorist of the thread. All i'm saying is what Blizzard is doing isn't any worse than any other mmo company. Actually you'd be surprised. Most games unlike WoW keep their activities very secret so that cheaters won't know whats going on. SOE won't tell you. CCP won't tell you. It doesnt mean that it isn't happening it just means they aren't open with it.
Make a difference!
Every game has a similar function. How do you think GM's catch cheaters? Blizzard is doing nothing different than every other game developer.
Care to name a few games that have a similar function. Making blanket statements is one thing, proving it is another.
I don't really care about WoW, but I still don't see why they need to scan a persons web browser.
I don't know much about how this works, but how difficult is to to say, retrieve someone bank details if they are using an online banking service. Isn't this something thats probably goign to be a potential liability at some point.
EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, SoR, Guild Wars... Every major game has anti cheat code that has similar abilities.
The minute you turn on your modem you are open to all that from much more devious people. Blizzard already has a credit card number if they wanted they could charge you for 5 years LOL. You're living with rose colored glasses if you think any part of your pc is secure the minute that modem is turned on. I don't care what kind of firewall you have. Even IP blockers can be beat rather simply.
As I play eve, I know that the eve software does not include anything that scans your harddrive or your Internet explorere. The only thing it does is make an integrety test on your installation folder.
And I wasn't talking about Blizzard taking sensitive information from you. What I menat is whats to stop a Blizzard employee for example from extracting your bank details like username and password from the warden scanning your Internet explorer.
And no need to get all defensive. You aren't married to Blizzard are you.
Ps. All all well and good claiming a bunch of games scan your harddrive and internet explorer. Its quite another providing any kind of proof.
PPS. I am well aware that I am open to attack teh moment I turn on my modem. I can live with the fact that I must constantly be on the lookout for unscrouplous criminal elements attacking my pc. Its quite another thing when a company whom I pay money to to provide me a serice, use sneaky tactics to snoop on my PC and then provide cheesy explanations as to what they do and why they do it.
Why would i be defensive? I'm the paranoid conspiracy theorist of the thread. All i'm saying is what Blizzard is doing isn't any worse than any other mmo company. Actually you'd be surprised. Most games unlike WoW keep their activities very secret so that cheaters won't know whats going on. SOE won't tell you. CCP won't tell you. It doesnt mean that it isn't happening it just means they aren't open with it.
No you misunderstand me. I am not talking about Blizzard or Wow I am challenging you notion that since everyone is doing it, its alright.
Plus if SOE or CCP were doing it, I am sure atleast one of the few hundred thousand players who play their games, would have found any such spy.
I cannot accept an argument that because online criminals are doing it all teh time, its ok for legitimate companies to take my money for a product and then do such a thing. The world is turning into a "Brave New World" every day. Doesnt mean all of us have to take it lying down like you seem to be willing to do.
I don't mean to be insulting mate, but I just get irritated that people seem to be more and more willing to take any shit trown at them on the face and then claim it tasted like Strawberry Chesscake. It may be a sign of the times or I might be getting old but it still aint right.
The real reason I think people put up with it is probably because they have been crapped on by some many gaming companies with shoddy products, taht when one ok game comes along, they are willing to put up with anything.
Every game has a similar function. How do you think GM's catch cheaters? Blizzard is doing nothing different than every other game developer.
Care to name a few games that have a similar function. Making blanket statements is one thing, proving it is another.
I don't really care about WoW, but I still don't see why they need to scan a persons web browser.
I don't know much about how this works, but how difficult is to to say, retrieve someone bank details if they are using an online banking service. Isn't this something thats probably goign to be a potential liability at some point.
EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, SoR, Guild Wars... Every major game has anti cheat code that has similar abilities.
The minute you turn on your modem you are open to all that from much more devious people. Blizzard already has a credit card number if they wanted they could charge you for 5 years LOL. You're living with rose colored glasses if you think any part of your pc is secure the minute that modem is turned on. I don't care what kind of firewall you have. Even IP blockers can be beat rather simply.
As I play eve, I know that the eve software does not include anything that scans your harddrive or your Internet explorere. The only thing it does is make an integrety test on your installation folder.
And I wasn't talking about Blizzard taking sensitive information from you. What I menat is whats to stop a Blizzard employee for example from extracting your bank details like username and password from the warden scanning your Internet explorer.
And no need to get all defensive. You aren't married to Blizzard are you.
Ps. All all well and good claiming a bunch of games scan your harddrive and internet explorer. Its quite another providing any kind of proof.
PPS. I am well aware that I am open to attack teh moment I turn on my modem. I can live with the fact that I must constantly be on the lookout for unscrouplous criminal elements attacking my pc. Its quite another thing when a company whom I pay money to to provide me a serice, use sneaky tactics to snoop on my PC and then provide cheesy explanations as to what they do and why they do it.
Why would i be defensive? I'm the paranoid conspiracy theorist of the thread. All i'm saying is what Blizzard is doing isn't any worse than any other mmo company. Actually you'd be surprised. Most games unlike WoW keep their activities very secret so that cheaters won't know whats going on. SOE won't tell you. CCP won't tell you. It doesnt mean that it isn't happening it just means they aren't open with it.
No you misunderstand me. I am not talking about Blizzard or Wow I am challenging you notion that since everyone is doing it, its alright.
Plus if SOE or CCP were doing it, I am sure atleast one of the few hundred thousand players who play their games, would have found any such spy.
I cannot accept an argument that because online criminals are doing it all teh time, its ok for legitimate companies to take my money for a product and then do such a thing. The world is turning into a "Brave New World" every day. Doesnt mean all of us have to take it lying down like you seem to be willing to do.
I don't mean to be insulting mate, but I just get irritated that people seem to be more and more willing to take any shit trown at them on the face and then claim it tasted like Strawberry Chesscake. It may be a sign of the times or I might be getting old but it still aint right.
The real reason I think people put up with it is probably because they have been crapped on by some many gaming companies with shoddy products, taht when one ok game comes along, they are willing to put up with anything.
Live in denial if you want. I'm not taking it lying down. I don't play WoW because it's a crap game. But i understand from the start that these companies monitor players computers for cheating. I also understand that these companies are the least of my worries.
Make a difference!
This isnt about scanning your game files for cheats its about WoW monitoring which web sites you visit.
I thought it was talking about both. I don't think it should scan your complete browsing history but I think it's ok to scan for cheats. I think your browsing history is rather personal and should be kept private.
Every game has a similar function. How do you think GM's catch cheaters? Blizzard is doing nothing different than every other game developer.
Care to name a few games that have a similar function. Making blanket statements is one thing, proving it is another.
I don't really care about WoW, but I still don't see why they need to scan a persons web browser.
I don't know much about how this works, but how difficult is to to say, retrieve someone bank details if they are using an online banking service. Isn't this something thats probably goign to be a potential liability at some point.
EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, SoR, Guild Wars... Every major game has anti cheat code that has similar abilities.
The minute you turn on your modem you are open to all that from much more devious people. Blizzard already has a credit card number if they wanted they could charge you for 5 years LOL. You're living with rose colored glasses if you think any part of your pc is secure the minute that modem is turned on. I don't care what kind of firewall you have. Even IP blockers can be beat rather simply.
As I play eve, I know that the eve software does not include anything that scans your harddrive or your Internet explorere. The only thing it does is make an integrety test on your installation folder.
And I wasn't talking about Blizzard taking sensitive information from you. What I menat is whats to stop a Blizzard employee for example from extracting your bank details like username and password from the warden scanning your Internet explorer.
And no need to get all defensive. You aren't married to Blizzard are you.
Ps. All all well and good claiming a bunch of games scan your harddrive and internet explorer. Its quite another providing any kind of proof.
PPS. I am well aware that I am open to attack teh moment I turn on my modem. I can live with the fact that I must constantly be on the lookout for unscrouplous criminal elements attacking my pc. Its quite another thing when a company whom I pay money to to provide me a serice, use sneaky tactics to snoop on my PC and then provide cheesy explanations as to what they do and why they do it.
Why would i be defensive? I'm the paranoid conspiracy theorist of the thread. All i'm saying is what Blizzard is doing isn't any worse than any other mmo company. Actually you'd be surprised. Most games unlike WoW keep their activities very secret so that cheaters won't know whats going on. SOE won't tell you. CCP won't tell you. It doesnt mean that it isn't happening it just means they aren't open with it.
No you misunderstand me. I am not talking about Blizzard or Wow I am challenging you notion that since everyone is doing it, its alright.
Plus if SOE or CCP were doing it, I am sure atleast one of the few hundred thousand players who play their games, would have found any such spy.
I cannot accept an argument that because online criminals are doing it all teh time, its ok for legitimate companies to take my money for a product and then do such a thing. The world is turning into a "Brave New World" every day. Doesnt mean all of us have to take it lying down like you seem to be willing to do.
I don't mean to be insulting mate, but I just get irritated that people seem to be more and more willing to take any shit trown at them on the face and then claim it tasted like Strawberry Chesscake. It may be a sign of the times or I might be getting old but it still aint right.
The real reason I think people put up with it is probably because they have been crapped on by some many gaming companies with shoddy products, taht when one ok game comes along, they are willing to put up with anything.
Live in denial if you want. I'm not taking it lying down. I don't play WoW because it's a crap game. But i understand from the start that these companies monitor players computers for cheating. I also understand that these companies are the least of my worries.
I don't paly WoW either and I don't really care. It's just the concept that pisses me off. I understand monitoring for cheating but scanning a persons Browsing History or Cookies, is not part of that as far as I am aware. Maybe its just a software malfunction but if it isn't, it still might not be a danger in any way....but it is still an intrusion.
And yes I agree, these companies are the least of our worries....however, these companies are large commercial entities with a physical presence. This isn't some shadowy hacker we are talking about. Atleast if someone hacked into my system, I could console myself saying I didnt take adequate protection or that he was too good to stop and there is no way I could do anythign against him because as I said, he is a shadowy hacker on the interent. But a company like Blizzard who take money from people to provide them a service, doing the same thing, should not be acceptable.
It isn't a question of security...it's more a question of privacy. Hypothetically speaking and a completely over the top example, tomorrow if Blizzard stated remotely hijacking peoples webcams and start spying on them that way, would that be acceptable too?
The OPs link is about Blizzard (apparently) scanning your browsing history. No one has criticized them for simply scanning game files for cheats.
The only reason scanning game files for cheats came up at all was because some people didnt understand what the link was saying. (Or did understand but deliberately tried to sidetrack the discussion)
Since Blizzard isn't publishing or using this info to spam your email with "since you surf here we'd thought you'd like this" I don't see a problem with it. If it is true, seems more like they are just scanning for cheats rather than gathering information on the player. Though it's really just a guess by the OP that this is WoW doing the scanning, could be IE since the news launcher uses it.
Besides do you think Blizzard cares that after you're done grouping with some night elf chicks you then go to Lapdances.com?
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The point is that your perceived privacy on the net is non existant. In fact the american government doesn't recognize that items stored on your pc are your personal property thusly they don't need a warrant to search your computer. They do need a warrant to come into your home and search it but they can search it all they want remotely. It is in fact thinking like your that deludes the majority of internet users. Your computer is not private. They call the internet the information superhighway. Well think of your pc as the car that drives that highway. Your car has windows and anyone who drives by or walks by when its parked can see exactly what you have in it. They aren't breaking the law by doing so. Ultimately you have to forego any illusion of privacy on the net. You have to take responsibility for what sites you go to and what software you install. If you can't prevent rogue software from being installed you need to disconnect now. If you don't like companies spying on where you go then you should never surf. I'm not saying sit back and take it. By all means write your elected official and demand change. That is after all your only recourse outside of getting a masters in info tech and learning everything possible and defending yourself.
Make a difference!
From the webpage posted by the original poster:
" Name: skt Time:11-27 08:23:12
Not very bright are you?
The 'Breaking News' displayed on the login page uses an IE control to access the WoW site for the news. As it loads the IE control, it has to run through the standard IE start-up procedure. Which is what it's doing there.. It's not WoW accessing the folder, it's IE.
"
The point is that your perceived privacy on the net is non existant. In fact the american government doesn't recognize that items stored on your pc are your personal property thusly they don't need a warrant to search your computer. They do need a warrant to come into your home and search it but they can search it all they want remotely. It is in fact thinking like your that deludes the majority of internet users. Your computer is not private. They call the internet the information superhighway. Well think of your pc as the car that drives that highway. Your car has windows and anyone who drives by or walks by when its parked can see exactly what you have in it. They aren't breaking the law by doing so. Ultimately you have to forego any illusion of privacy on the net. You have to take responsibility for what sites you go to and what software you install. If you can't prevent rogue software from being installed you need to disconnect now. If you don't like companies spying on where you go then you should never surf. I'm not saying sit back and take it. By all means write your elected official and demand change. That is after all your only recourse outside of getting a masters in info tech and learning everything possible and defending yourself.
Tadaaa thats all I wanted to hear. Thank you.
Somone named SKT wrote:
The 'Breaking News' displayed on the
login page uses an IE control to access the WoW site for the news. As
it loads the IE control, it has to run through the standard IE start-up
procedure. Which is what it's doing there.. It's not WoW accessing the
folder, it's IE.
So what is the point of this thread again?
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.