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I simply have not laughed this hard in a looong time...
rkabyrne
Member Posts: 72
In trolling the duck's website, I read a post inquiring as to them going open-source once the duck has matured.
Their reply was, NO because of Theft of Code.
Something tells me they need to understand what the definition of open source IS.
Am I the only one that finds that hillarious?
DM: Let me get this right: The dragons breath knocks you over the 300' cliff onto the jagged rocks below and you want a saving throw?
Comments
I guess what they're doing doesn't amount to that, huh? That is pretty funny
From Dictionary.com:
Open Source:
<philosophy, legal> A method and philosophy for software
licensing and distribution designed to encourage use and
improvement of software written by volunteers by ensuring that
anyone can copy the source code and modify it freely.
So they are worried about folks taking the code without their permission and making modifications and free services? Boy thats the pot calling the kettle black eh? So its not going open source. Does this mean they are going to attempt to sell it to get it out to folks? I'm sure Lucas and SOE won't mind that one bit.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
I guess what they're doing doesn't amount to that, huh? That is pretty funny
No, it doesn't. They aren't, and never did, steal any code.
GPL simply states, that you can use the software without modification, if you modify it, you must provide the source of all modifications on request.
The problem behind all of this is, that people involved in emu projects are weak on the moral side of things in the first place, many of them (not all) blatantly disregarding completely valid legal arguments.
But in the end it doesn't matter. Write code that's good enough, then who cares who "steals" it. They won't be competetent enough to do anything useful with it anyway, and they'll break compatibility with official release.
In open source circles this is known as forking. It's more annoying in business environments, where it becomes a nightmare maintaining different forks. As such, very few forks survive for long, or a single new fork takes over as primary (Firefox is a fork of Netscape 6.0, and Netscape 6.0 was fork of Netscape navigator, Firefox 2.0 if I understand correctly is also a fork of Firefox 1.5).
There are several reasons as to why this happens, mostly it's not ego, but completely practical (abandoned development, unsuported features, commercial involvement, legal issues).
Why it doesn't matter.
Open Source code (the source files) are completely irrelevant to a product. The true value lies in the knowledge. Let's say someone gives you a box of car parts. Sure, you can go and assemble a complete car. But will you know how to adjust its chassis to improve aerodynamic characteristics, will you know how to rewire the starter system?
OSS works. It was proven over and over, even in the greatest battlefield of all, Linux. Unfortunately, too many jump to conclusions and miss the big picture.
Of course! More importantly, would I want to rewire a starter on the pinto or buy a new car with better mileage and leather seats?
What I want to see is if they can tune the GEO Prism's 3 cylinder engine to run like a 400hp 327ci chevy. In all aspects I see it as a learning experiance. They have my best wishes while not having my attention placed in the Duck.
Wanna buy a Duck!!
Of course! More importantly, would I want to rewire a starter on the pinto or buy a new car with better mileage and leather seats?
What I want to see is if they can tune the GEO Prism's 3 cylinder engine to run like a 400hp 327ci chevy. In all aspects I see it as a learning experiance. They have my best wishes while not having my attention placed in the Duck.
Wanna buy a Duck!!
trade in yer pinto fer a gremlin hehehe!!! man what games you in now mindspat? I tried to log onto swg cause someone said i get a veteran reward of a cple weeks or some crap but i cant seem to find it, i wanted to say hi to NI oh well can you tell em all i said hi please.
playing eq2 and two worlds
The EMU as I understand it isn't operating on any sort of open source (any longer). Legally they are entitled to decode packets transmitted to there client. They have no obligation to share that with anyone and could indeed make a product that can be purchased by LA, SOE or even job bob's video games for all intents and purposes. Technically they are not stealing code. They simply are decoding what was freely available to anyone who played star wars galaxies. The sale and distribution of any product based on that code is a legal hang up since source code is likely to contain copywrited materials especial code written by a major game house. The content of Star wars is a protect intellectual property, but agreements can be made after development. They may already have an agreement. Point is, they have a right not to give it away and the project was not really ever an open source enterprise. It started private, was made public only briefly and then pulled and continued privately. What they do is up to them and you cannot make a legal ruling on something that is not being legally even challenged.
It is like debating a fictional law case. If soe, la sues. If the us captures bin laden. If OJ kills someone else. You are constructing fictional cases and supporting them with case history. The EMU dispite what alot of people think have a legal right to at a minimum continue there work.
It is there work and if they dont want to share it for free I dont see why you think that is hypocritcal.
Of course! More importantly, would I want to rewire a starter on the pinto or buy a new car with better mileage and leather seats?
What I want to see is if they can tune the GEO Prism's 3 cylinder engine to run like a 400hp 327ci chevy. In all aspects I see it as a learning experiance. They have my best wishes while not having my attention placed in the Duck.
Wanna buy a Duck!!
So... If you all that, will the <Manufacturer> come after you, saying you stole something from him?
No. Because you did something nobody else could.
Yet someone else, given the same parts, wouldn't be able to do anything except put them loosely together.
This is why open source works. Egos get superseeded by competence and interest.
A highly competent, yet egoistical developer will work alone, refuse anyone elses input.
A dedicated, willing to learn team, will gather large support, and start developing. They'll be both working from the same foundation developed by someone completely different. Yet they will be the ones who will succeed.
And then no ammount of complainiang from the competent person about theft will work.
OSS: Put up or shut up.
The biggest thing they are afraid of, is people takein the code and trying to start their own "Duck Pond", They had an incident where 1 "Pond" made a video of VERY BASIC combat, a feat the original ducks have already achieved. My guess is they dont want anymore major problems with people takeing the code, building on it, and showing it off saying they did all the work.
Thats my 2 cents
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
DM: Let me get this right: The dragons breath knocks you over the 300' cliff onto the jagged rocks below and you want a saving throw?
Yes, someone took the code, said In Your Face, and was done with it. So?
What do you think will happen once they experience data synchronization issues caused by malformed requests coming from the client, causing duplicate indexes in database? Will they simply go and fix it? Nope. Because they don't understand how the system works.
They only could do that, because the server available was so rudimentary it was useless in the first place. It's easy to change title of a html page. But can you fix a bug in Amazon's ordering system? After all, it's only HTML, right?
This is where inexperience shows. And I don't mean that in a bad way. But in software industry, you run across that all the time. If someone can take your code, and claims it as their own, then your code is worthless in the first place.
Code is knowledge, not characters, instructions and numbers. And knowledge cannot be stolen.
Yes, someone took the code, said In Your Face, and was done with it. So?
What do you think will happen once they experience data synchronization issues caused by malformed requests coming from the client, causing duplicate indexes in database? Will they simply go and fix it? Nope. Because they don't understand how the system works.
They only could do that, because the server available was so rudimentary it was useless in the first place. It's easy to change title of a html page. But can you fix a bug in Amazon's ordering system? After all, it's only HTML, right?
This is where inexperience shows. And I don't mean that in a bad way. But in software industry, you run across that all the time. If someone can take your code, and claims it as their own, then your code is worthless in the first place.
Code is knowledge, not characters, instructions and numbers. And knowledge cannot be stolen.
Yep and a crap load of experience..."Time in grade".. what I like is that a prime example of this is "Bounty Marks" inside walls, trees and other server side structures.
This is a Beta old problem that they could never get right.. BECAUSE it is based on the client just as much as the server..
SO... when you came into a area the sync did not or ever happen right actually. Most of the time you were lucky due to the fact they made sure the marks were not near structures.
This was a issue they actually commented on in beta that they did not know how to fix.
As it seems, it never was nor will be. It is dependant on clients and server side "lag" and sync if you will
(But this is just one issue) -- there is hundreds like this that some people don't even know about.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Yep and a crap load of experience..."Time in grade".. what I like is that a prime example of this is "Bounty Marks" inside walls, trees and other server side structures.
This is a Beta old problem that they could never get right.. BECAUSE it is based on the client just as much as the server..
Actually, that's a different problem. And it's 100% server based.
This falls under the category: "It's not important, make sure the icons look ok and ship on time" management foobar category.
This issue was one of the few exact issues mentioned by Raph himself as a key blocker that prevented them from adding any kind of new content - it didn't work, simply put. So rather than fixing the problem, they did the management thing, and scrapped the content.
QFMFE!!!
This is why they won't succeed. Too much drama and egos getting in the way. One of them already made off with a bunch of cash from donations, yet people keep throwing money at them for something that the group over there is incapable of achieving.
Wasn't it about 3 or 4 months ago where they said something about getting a CU emu up in a week? Still waiting for it?
They can't achieve what they're going for because their egos and stupid internet drama are getting in the way. A real OSS project would have been run differently. As it is, they're so worried about getting all the credit and donations that they don't seem to care anymore if it ever actually works.
SWG Tempest: Cardo Dycen RIP
Eve: Cardoh Dycen
I support random drug testing for all SOE employees
This is why they won't succeed. Too much drama and egos getting in the way. One of them already made off with a bunch of cash from donations, yet people keep throwing money at them for something that the group over there is incapable of achieving.
Wasn't it about 3 or 4 months ago where they said something about getting a CU emu up in a week? Still waiting for it?
They can't achieve what they're going for because their egos and stupid internet drama are getting in the way. A real OSS project would have been run differently. As it is, they're so worried about getting all the credit and donations that they don't seem to care anymore if it ever actually works.
LOL, I wish I could find that thread that was started about that. So many folks swore up and down it would be here within a week. It was sad really.
I still can't believe that folks are giving those guys donations.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Yep and a crap load of experience..."Time in grade".. what I like is that a prime example of this is "Bounty Marks" inside walls, trees and other server side structures.
This is a Beta old problem that they could never get right.. BECAUSE it is based on the client just as much as the server..
Actually, that's a different problem. And it's 100% server based.
This falls under the category: "It's not important, make sure the icons look ok and ship on time" management foobar category.
This issue was one of the few exact issues mentioned by Raph himself as a key blocker that prevented them from adding any kind of new content - it didn't work, simply put. So rather than fixing the problem, they did the management thing, and scrapped the content.
Well I mean this is like saying it was 100% the servers fault if the client was out of sync. This is just not simply true.
This problem going back into beta was a client issue as well (In the concept that) if you had massive lag on your side the server did not (refresh) your cords or X and Y axis perse. So I mean ok... the SERVER could not find you fast enough ... I understand but like I said, things on the client side also affected this.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Well I mean this is like saying it was 100% the servers fault if the client was out of sync. This is just not simply true.
This problem going back into beta was a client issue as well (In the concept that) if you had massive lag on your side the server did not (refresh) your cords or X and Y axis perse. So I mean ok... the SERVER could not find you fast enough ... I understand but like I said, things on the client side also affected this.
What happened was this:
Server used simple collision maps to determine where mobs can spawn. For server, everything worked.
When client received the coordinate, it would be just in the border of the house. When you'd target such mob, client would use high resolution model collision detection, and determine the target is within the wall. And prevent you from attacking, without even asking the server.
Rocks and collidable terrain was completely ignored by the server as well. So when server spawned stuff, it simply didn't know that something apeared on client in a tree or in a rock, since it chose to not test for that condition.
This, and a slew of other bugs remains unfixed till today. Sloppy and reckless is best word for this. And that's what also falls under polish.
Oh not to mention 75% of the code that was in the ducks repository was actually borrowed from other open-source projects such as the WoW ducks. So they really shouldn't be talking about stealing code.