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Don't waste your money and time on EQ2
Samuraisword
Member Posts: 2,111
Some advice for potential customers for this product.
This is my advice based on my experience in order to save you the disappointment.
EQ2 sucks.
It's a raid centric game since the best items are achieved in raid content and they are non tradeable, so anyone who doesn't raid will be a second class citizen.
There is way too much zoning.
The ciities are bare, I mean empty and void of life.
Crafting is way too easy so it's hard to make any profit from the items you make.
The PvP is weak, no item looting.
There is no significant death penalty making the game way too easy and non challenging.
The playerbase is shrinking, more and more people leaving daily so not a game that has a bright future.
Comments
ROTFLTHTSASTCMMMWIATIHEPMASCTPATTMTMHAAOTIYFYSFPOSWYLJTMMLTMYB
Rolling On The Floor Laughing Too Hard To Stop And Scaring The Cat, Meanwhile My Mom Walked In And Thought I Had Eaten Poisonous Mushrooms And She Called The Paramedics And They Took Me Too Mad House And All Of This Is Your Fault You Stupid Fathead Piece Of **** With Your Lame Jokes That Make Me Laugh This Much You Bastard
ya a lot of the servers are packed 24/7
and there is item looting in PvP. other then that, everything else he said is incorrect also. just another troll.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Well he HAS given his reasons as to why he thinks the game "sux"
Whether you agree with him or not, will no doubt form this debate.
I wouldnt normally bother replying, however just as a reminder from the RoC
"Game Attacks - Games on our site will be treated just as we treat people. Unsubstantiated comments about specific or general games will be penalized in nearly the same way attacks against people will. The exception is that you can say mean things about games provided you back it up with reasons.
Example: "Game X sucks." is not a legitimate comment. "Game X sucks, because..." is acceptable.
Carry on
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
It's a raid centric game since the best items are achieved in raid content and they are non tradeable, so anyone who doesn't raid will be a second class citizen.
You are not quite wrong in this. However, I suppose that if the only measure you have for yourself in the context of an MMORPG is "Uber" loot and "Phat" gains, that is to say that you see yourself (and determine your success) simply in terms of how much *stuff* you own, you will certainly be disappointed in EQ2, along with most other MMORGPS out there. It does pay to note that some people play MMORPGs for reasons *OTHER* than to simply collect better stuff than their neighbors have.
There is way too much zoning.
Zoning never bothered me, but then I started playing CRPG's back in the early Ultima days when the C64 hard drive would grind for a minute *every time you went through a door*. The few secons wait in between zones in this game is not anywhere close to a deal-breaker for me, however I would liked to have seen EQ2 be able to replicate something similar to other MMORPG's in this regard. They chose to go another route in design, however and to my mind the sheer fun of the game greatly outweighs the wait for zone loads.The ciities are bare, I mean empty and void of life.
Depends in what city you are in, where, and what you are doing. One example: there are times when my wife, who enjoys the crafting part of the game to the exclusion of adventuring, complains because she cannot get a spot at a crafting table as they are all full. Recently, EQ2 has added more places to craft to help with this problem. Now that does not sound like something that they had to address because the cities are "bare" and devoid of life.
Crafting is way too easy so it's hard to make any profit from the items you make.
Ah, you should meet my wife.The PvP is weak, no item looting.
Never liked PVP (I put it in the same boat as the "keeping up with the Sir Jones' crowd I mentioned above), however, it should be noted that EQ2 was *NOT* designed to have PVP originally. It is a tacked-on set of rules to please the crowd mentioned above.There is no significant death penalty making the game way too easy and non challenging.
Absolutely correct. There is, however, an easy fix! In the name of making the game more "challenging" and less "easy" you are welcome - upon your character death - to drop and delete any items of yours that you wish and claim that they were "looted" by others, or you are welcome to turn off your EXP for the next hour or so of adventuring and claim that this is your "death penalty", or...Of course, if you do so, while your game will be harder and more challenging, you will have a very hard time "keeping up with the Sir Jones'" won't you?
The playerbase is shrinking, more and more people leaving daily so not a game that has a bright future.
Now this one I had to laugh at, seriously. EOF, anyone?AC (retired); EQ (retired); DAoC (retired); Horizons (retired); EQII (retired); CoH (retired); AC II (tested); Lineage II (beta); Neocron (tested); Saga of Ryzom (beta); SWG (retired)...
and u advise us to go where exactly?
World of warcraft? where non raiders have better items and where the community is more mature?
./Point /Laugh
Listen to yourself. This is the 4th post now attacking Moirae in the space of a few minutes for no reason. Get a life and stop stalking people.
This is one of my points of contention, here SOE was on the verge of a breakthrough, but failed to prepare the playerbase to see the potential.
Players say they want a more realistic economy, but the fail to understand what goes into that. Here SOE was on the cutting edge, but, rather than educate players about how it worked, they chose to step back from the brink and dumb it down. The original crafting system was a much more realistic economy, but didn't work because everyone wanted to be the Original Equip,ent Manufacturer (OEM) rather than a Tier 1 supplier.
I studied the original crafting system in EQ 2 when it first came out, and it was quite good actually. The fact that it never worked was not SOE's fault, but the fault of the playerbase. Basically, my position of characters supplied everything that an OEM needed. I supplied the washes, resins, oils, hooks, buckles, studs, hilts, paddings, paper, quills, etc that an OEM would need to complete the finished product. I supplied to armorers, weaponsmiths, scholars, tailors, furniture manufacturers. My prices were based on today's market environment, I took SOE's approximate materials cost times 3 for a final price. This compensated me for one third materials cost, one third manufacturing labor, and one third overhead (gathering time). My character was Beka on Nektulos, then Kithicor (post merger) server. My character made plenty of money in Freeport because she had the product and the prices to meet demand. Beka made alot of money as co-owner of the Freeport Pen and Paper Company. The Freeport market was actually alive, vibrant, and cheaper than the Quenos market. I was kidded alot about running a business from on server friends/customers, but Beka always had numerous invites to group, and was given gifts by OEM to help market more product. She was a major crafting player on the Freeport Nektulos server, and soon became a major player on the Freeport Kithicor server. After 1.5 years of playing, the crafting change put her out of business.
The changes SOE made to the economy made it easier for a player to be an OEM, but eliminated the tiered supplier base. They increased the availability of rares, as rares are no longer that rare, and in doing so ruined the market for the common crafted items. Before the change, there was a market for common crafted skill upgrades (the reason the Freeport Pen and Paper Company was originally formed), but also for all the other common items. A rare manufactured item was expensive. The rare manufactured inks I supplied were quite affordable though, and I sold many, because the farmers kept their prices higher than mine. Fast foreward to now, the common items do not sell, and the farmers still keep the prices of the rares up.
So, SOE did dumb the crafting down to appeal to a player base that cannot understand manufacturing economies, the OEM and Tier supplier base system. No manufacturer today makes everything in the final product that is sold. GM, Toyota, Ford, Honda, Chrysler, et all all utilize Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 3 supplier economy. All of the Tier supplliers can make very good money, their name is just not on that finished product. There is a foundation to product pricing, which is not charge exhorbatant amounts like everyone else. It will be interesting to see how Vanguard deals with a player base that lacks these concepts. rather than address this issue and educate the player base as to how the economy works, SOE chose the easy way out and dumbed it down to appeal to the WOW crowd. So now, the crafting system lacks depth. Many players are satisfied with this, and the current market. I am not one of those players, I want more for my monthly subscription fee.
Listen to yourself. This is the 4th post now attacking Moirae in the space of a few minutes for no reason. Get a life and stop stalking people.
I do hope you are criticizing Moire for her attacks on other posters also? For I am only responding her her responses. The other recent posts are not attacks, they are pointing out inconsistencies in her posts. Moirae never points out inconsistencies, she attacks like a rabid fanboi calling others trolls. And, as I have to get ready and go to work, I took a break in my posting before posting the previous example of why I disagree with the crafting system change. It wouldn't surprise me at all if any rabid fanboi attacks that post.
Listen to yourself. This is the 4th post now attacking Moirae in the space of a few minutes for no reason. Get a life and stop stalking people.
I do hope you are criticizing Moire for her attacks on other posters also? For I am only responding her her responses. The other recent posts are not attacks, they are pointing out inconsistencies in her posts. Moire never points out inconsistencies, she attacks like a rabid fanboi calling others trolls.
She called the OP Troll here, so what he is a troll and you would agree if youve read his other posts which are basically the same tune over and over.
And in another post you 'attacked' Moirae when her response was nothing more than stating that she didnt have EoF but it didnt stop her from having fun. Tell me how she deserves your rubbish from that post huh???
Hmm... of course the original post is a troll, or at least an attempt to open up discussion. And I think many of the replies were quite good, and did a lot to disabuse some of the inaccuracies about the OP'S original contentions.
But..as is so often the case in these forums...the thread is now turning into pointless attacks on one another about who is more of a troll, or a fanboi, or a jerk.
Just let it go folks... make your point and move on.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Firstoff, when a poster makes a comment about areas of the game they don't loke, rather than call them a troll, get them to explain. I have already gone into the problem that I have with the crafting system in EQ 2. basically, players want a MMORPG in which they can group to adventure, but want to solo the crafting. vanguard will have the same problem with this as did EQ 2. Check out the Vanguard forums and see how upset people are about "grouping" to craft. The way a vibrant in game economy works is that crafters depend on one other to provide the components necessary to push a finished product out the door. EQ 2 originally set up crafting as a cooperative venture.
Now I will address the posters comment about zoning. Firstoff, there is a push in MMORPG to have a seemless world with no zoning. EQ 2 was not designed that way, and I believe in the future MMORPGs have to be a hybrid of zoning and seemless world. For general group play a world can be seemless. For the class specific quests (see my previous example of assassin specific quests) it is necessary to establish a solo instanced zone. This is so a mechanics change can occur outside of the seemless world, and allow only one character into the zone, redefine the combat/spell attributes, and alow the creation of a totally different gaming experience. Similiarly, raids should be zoned to alter the game mechanics. Whereas now the best loot is arguably at raid level, in the future the solo play zone loot should be just as phat as the raid loot. That is, if you successfully complete the solo quest, solving the puzzles and putting it all together, you should not get a minor trinket.
Thus, the criticism of zoning should be evaluated based on the reason that the player is zoning. Zoning on Fedex type quests is simply inexcusable, it is time sink for time sink purpose. Zoning to experiance a different facet/game mechanics however should not be discounted. In the begining EQ 2 did just that, players zoned to experience a quest totally committed to a character class. In my opinion, that was a good thing, and deleting those quests was throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
The odd thing is, he thinks that he's actually doing himself a favor by using the term fanboi. As though that somehow makes him right.
No Moirae, once again you miss the point by a mile. When will you learn to treat others with respect, even if they have differing opinions then yours? You are a fanboi of the game, never have I read a post in which you have questioned any mechanic in the game and made a suggestion as to how it could be improved. Never have I read a post of yours that has openly considered and discussed the underlying reasons as to why the game operated the way it does, and why SOE made a change. You are quick to call other people trolls, without questioning the reasons they feel the way they do.
My "personal" crusade is to get you to open your mind. You think that I do this because I hate you? Once again you are off base. I do this because you obviously love the game, and play it quite a bit. Some of the things you say about the game are off point, but others demonstrate that you know the game. Come to the table with an open mind, challenge people on the forums by what they mean when they don't like something, and enter into a free discussion of whether changes can be made to make the game better. All you are doing is answering mechanical questions, which is fine, and calling people trolls. How does that contribute in a positive manner to forming the thoughts needed to bring together the next MMORPG?
You will find that Vanguard is going to run down alot of the same paths that EQ 2 has, mostly because the players say they want something, but have not put into words what they are looking for. Sometimes what they are looking for is inconsistent, they want a MMORPG in which they can group to adventure, but with solo content. What type of solo content, just the group content toned down, or different? They want a more realistic MMO economic system, but a simpler solo crafting system. Shouldn't the crafting system also promote community for crafters? Is community something only for adventurers to have? What about Vanguards diplomacy, should they have a sense of community?
Personally on Freeport Nektulos I experienced the crafting cooperative system EQ 2 was originally envisioned to have. It was great, crafters added to friends list so that when one of us logged in we had orders immediately coming in for the materials components from weaponsmiths, armorers, tailors, jewelers, furniture makers. It WAS a community. We were leary of the server merge to Kithicor, but one of our crafters generated a character there, checked the market, and reported back. We went over to Kithicor with our price structure, and soon dominated the market. There was a sense of community, the reason people play a MMORPG. The crafting change took all that away from us, none of us play anymore. We lost that sense of community. Is that a good thing, to remove the sense of community to chase the grind and phat loot? Who is community for? Why are we playing?
C'mon, use these forums to discuss, not to dis people. I really don't care what the original poster is. Discuss his points, bring up the good with the bad. bring up how people feel about these issue, bring up what we are looking for in a game. Bring ideas to the table so that the next game doesn't have to go down the same paths.
Fair enough. Why do you assume he posted his true and heartfelt opinions, and is not just trolling for reaction?
I made my mind up due to the fact that he did and has done absolutely nothing to *define or defend the truth or relevence* of his "opinions", thereby leaving one to wonder if he truly has a point that he believes in (attempting to open logical discussion on the topic) or if he is just misinformed and/or is petulantly acting out (trolling). Were he to take the time to present the evidence that caused him to form his opinions (what server is "bare", when was it? why is pvp terrible, etc.) then perhaps he might be taken a bit more seriously. Instead, he scatter-shots things that may or may not annoy him, in an agressive and boorish manner, hoping that something will stick somewhere and start a slugfest.
Textbook troll.
As I noted in my reply, he actually seems to have a point to my mind in some of his criticisms, but without deliniating the facts or his experience to back them up, and without taking the time in this thread to defend them as they are challenged, all he does is portray himself as a troll looking for tidbits to feed on.
And sometimes, in the interest of discussion, even the trolls are indulged.
-Jeff
"Firstoff, when a poster makes a comment about areas of the game they don't loke, rather than call them a troll, get them to explain."
Sorry, that's not my job.
If they wish to troll, more power to them. I have the choice to ignore or refute them, depending usually on whether I think that presenting my opinions and experiences will be helpful to *others reading the thread* and not the troll himself. It's been my looooooooooooooooong experience that trying to get a troll involved in a conversation to defend their "opinions" is futile, mostly because they really *don't care*.
So, rather than try to draw them out, if I have something I think of interest to contrbute, I will. If the troll suddenly decides to tackle an honest conversation and debate minus the silliness that got him labled a troll, I then can modify my stance and engage him or not.
Mostly around here, however, there are some knowledgable and well-spoken players of the game, so I don't feel the need to post much. They do a fine job.
-Jeff
Well, we have to disagree then. I have been labeled a troll when I came to the table, up front, with points about how to improve MMORPGs. What I desire is engagement on the points. Rather than dwell on how I feel Moirae treats people, dwell on what I have posted about the economic system. Also, review my posts and dwell on the points I made on the solo game experience, the group experience, the raid experience, the seperate raid server, how to incorporate PvP within a PvE game. All of these have been constructive engagements, yet Moirae has labelled me a troll. You may not want to constructively engage a troll, I don't care if he is a troll or not, I want to constructively engage the points. I don't care if the OP participates, I want the people reading the thread to participate. If the OP of this thread wishes to come back and explain, fine, if not fine. However blindly labeling a person a troll because they post criticisms of the game is as fruitless as getting Moirae to engage in a constructive discussion of any of the items I have asked you to dwell on in my posts. Perhaps you will think these posts are an example of a fine job, perhaps you will agree with Moirae that I am a troll. Your choice.