Now tell us who the moderators/admins in your forum are please.
Just me now.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title. "When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
I tend to agree with you, except for one thing. They removed the forum threads to try to deceive the playerbase, instead of just saying "things have changed". The fact they did that is one of the things that started everyone wanting refunds when, instead of getting answers, the players were basically called liars and the proof the players had removed. Fueling the fire by having CG say whatever was neccessary, whether it was true or not, just to quell the preorder anger and hold onto their money, added the big nail in the coffin. Just like DnL, Horizons, and other disasters lately, the biggest flaws have been ineffectual, incompetent wannabe devs with absolutely no business sense or ethics.
Idk... I can't read their minds to know if they were trying to be deceptive when they removed the threads. All I know is CG has been answering a lot of questions about what's what. I figure: things changed -> old info removed -> questions answered -> eventually release a new features list. Do they have to tell us every single time they remove a misinformative thread? I don't think it's deceptive not to tell us right away. Once all the false info is removed, just look at what's left. That's the easiest way to find the current state of the game. heck... RR might not even know what is still true. They need time to sort everything out. They did the right thing by erasing the old junk and starting over- since that IS what is happening.
People demanded info on aspects of the game that were promised. They were told that noone promised anything. Players then posted links to the threads on the beta forums where the promises had, indeed, been made. Suddenly, the linked threads disappeared. No mind reading needed.
You can try EA2 for free if you are an EA citizen or an mmocenter beta tester of course. RR acknowleges that things weren't right in the past and they want to start over. I think we can allow them that. You want your refund? You got it. You wanna stick around? You'll be rewarded.
Originally posted by ChaoticPasta You can try EA2 for free if you are an EA citizen or an mmocenter beta tester of course. RR acknowleges that things weren't right in the past and they want to start over. I think we can allow them that. You want your refund? You got it. You wanna stick around? You'll be rewarded.
I'm sorry but... c'mon!
No flamming, no trolling, no anything but you have got to be kidding me???
How many times does a company have to outright lie to you for it to sink in? How many times is the comment: "But we're doing better now" enough? When and at what point do people wake up and realize they are just being strung along?
I'm really just completely at a loss, am I the last one to have any sort of common sense with this company???
Originally posted by ChaoticPasta You can try EA2 for free if you are an EA citizen or an mmocenter beta tester of course. RR acknowleges that things weren't right in the past and they want to start over. I think we can allow them that. You want your refund? You got it. You wanna stick around? You'll be rewarded.
I'm sorry but... c'mon!
No flamming, no trolling, no anything but you have got to be kidding me???
How many times does a company have to outright lie to you for it to sink in? How many times is the comment: "But we're doing better now" enough? When and at what point do people wake up and realize they are just being strung along?
I'm really just completely at a loss, am I the last one to have any sort of common sense with this company???
Originally posted by ChaoticPasta You can try EA2 for free if you are an EA citizen or an mmocenter beta tester of course. RR acknowleges that things weren't right in the past and they want to start over. I think we can allow them that. You want your refund? You got it. You wanna stick around? You'll be rewarded.
I'm sorry but... c'mon!
No flamming, no trolling, no anything but you have got to be kidding me???
How many times does a company have to outright lie to you for it to sink in? How many times is the comment: "But we're doing better now" enough? When and at what point do people wake up and realize they are just being strung along?
I'm really just completely at a loss, am I the last one to have any sort of common sense with this company???
Nah, there's a few of us, Shae
I hope so, or else I'm comming in here with a big rubber mallet with the words Acme written on it to knock some sense into these people.
Originally posted by ChaoticPasta You can try EA2 for free if you are an EA citizen or an mmocenter beta tester of course. RR acknowleges that things weren't right in the past and they want to start over. I think we can allow them that. You want your refund? You got it. You wanna stick around? You'll be rewarded.
I'm sorry but... c'mon!
No flamming, no trolling, no anything but you have got to be kidding me???
How many times does a company have to outright lie to you for it to sink in? How many times is the comment: "But we're doing better now" enough? When and at what point do people wake up and realize they are just being strung along?
I'm really just completely at a loss, am I the last one to have any sort of common sense with this company???
Nah, there's a few of us, Shae
I hope so, or else I'm comming in here with a big rubber mallet with the words Acme written on it to knock some sense into these people.
Hmmm. *Looks around, starts scrounging through boxes* Now where did I put those portable holes and the paint to make the train tunnels?
Originally posted by ChaoticPasta You can try EA2 for free if you are an EA citizen or an mmocenter beta tester of course. RR acknowleges that things weren't right in the past and they want to start over. I think we can allow them that. You want your refund? You got it. You wanna stick around? You'll be rewarded.
I'm sorry but... c'mon!
No flamming, no trolling, no anything but you have got to be kidding me???
How many times does a company have to outright lie to you for it to sink in? How many times is the comment: "But we're doing better now" enough? When and at what point do people wake up and realize they are just being strung along?
I'm really just completely at a loss, am I the last one to have any sort of common sense with this company???
Nah, there's a few of us, Shae
I hope so, or else I'm comming in here with a big rubber mallet with the words Acme written on it to knock some sense into these people.
Hmmm. *Looks around, starts scrounging through boxes* Now where did I put those portable holes and the paint to make the train tunnels?
LOL ah ha !!! That's where CG's backbone went, through one of your little portable holes to nothingness.
Oh oh oh... and maybe the feature list for The Chronicle was written in disapearing/re-appearing ink, with the re-appearing part of course.
Originally posted by shae LOL ah ha !!! That's where CG's backbone went, through one of your little portable holes to nothingness.
Still here.
And I'm still going to do the job better regardless of how poorly you'll continue to treat me. Why? Because if I let 1 or 2 vocal people get to me about what my old boss did then I'll be putting myself in a bad position to do a great job in the future. So you have your grand fun, I'll be doing my job anyways.
Who knows, after you start hearing enough good things you'll come back to see for yourself. I look forward to the opportunity to try again with all of you.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title. "When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
Originally posted by shae LOL ah ha !!! That's where CG's backbone went, through one of your little portable holes to nothingness.
Still here.
And I'm still going to do the job better regardless of how poorly you'll continue to treat me. Why? Because if I let 1 or 2 vocal people get to me about what my old boss did then I'll be putting myself in a bad position to do a great job in the future. So you have your grand fun, I'll be doing my job anyways.
Who knows, after you start hearing enough good things you'll come back to see for yourself. I look forward to the opportunity to try again with all of you.
CG, have you ever heard the saying: "In the absense of genuine leadership, people will listen to anyone who steps up to the podium"?
We haven't treated you poorly, we have reacted to how you have treated us, we have not changed our oppinion because there has been no other oppinion to judge you by.
To put it another way, you sold out the people that were most willing to support you, not just the game CG, but you! When doubt started to merge into fact you left us all to linger and come to our own conclusions. (see quote above)
It's not up to us CG, it's up to you. Start doing better things and people will go back to you. You've been famous so far for passing the buck off and blaming the fans for your woes, it would be a nice change to see some responsibility be taken.
EDIT:
And it's not 1 or 2 people saying this CG, it's almost absolutely everyone who was thoroughly excited about this game and you as a community rep. Saying this once again re-inforces how disassociated you have become from the community and you continuously refuse to take responsibility for how people have been treated.
I'd say it's shamefull but I don't think that will ever sink in with you, will it?
Actually I have taken responsibility on the occassions it was my fault after the change.
Being a CM is a thankless job normally - the people who read the posts will just read it, the people who are out to get you are normally the ones who reply.
Helpless as I am to change your mind about what I might or might not have been through, I ask you 1 quick question: Have you ever worked Customer Service?
Like a phone service agency? How about worked the Return table at WalMart (or equivalent store)?
Any time you can't fix something the customer jumps to "It's your fault." Not the company you work for, or the CEO or Manager who makes that decision... it's you. You're the front man, you're the person who stands there and takes it... it's not your fault they're returning that tricycle after the 30 day return policy, or that you don't take back used underwear because of health reasons, or that there's a 15% restocking fee on that Television. Whatever it is... it's your fault. And you can't do anything but sit there and preach the company line.
I'm the digital equivalent. Doesn't matter how much I want to help, it's the company policy that can't be bypassed. Now that this policy has changed, so has how we work with the Community.
I'm not a waiter who didn't check the table regularly to see if anybody needed refills (if you remember, I was always on the Forums basicly), I was a service representative with a "What you can/can't do" list in front of me I could not deviate from and canned answers for comon questions from somebody who'd never (and probably will never) have to sit in my position.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title. "When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
It's a well written response CG and there's not a lick of it that I dissagree with.
Yes, some "Parts" of your job suck, they are unique and yup they can't be very much fun. I, or rather "we", understand that and have understood that for a long time. But you say it's thankless and that... well that's a bit of a stretch don't you think? How often have people posted things like: "CG, we know it's rough but can you..." then fill in the blanks.
To answer your question, yes absolutely I've done Customer Service work and as a matter of fact both jobs I hold right now (in University also) are more or less CS jobs. The first is a Rep job at EBGames and the second is a QA Test for a software company. Both offer plenty of opportunity to the front line person for my perspective jobs and company, it's not always easy but I chose both jobs and I work happily because of just that, I choose to work there.
And so did you CG, you chose to work there, you chose to stay, you chose to be in that position and with all that comes the responsibility of either succeeding or failing with us.
But still, I'll re-iterate to my original point. You blame us but it comes back to the fact that when there is nothing else to follow, no other presence, when there seems to be a fundemental lack of leadership with no other words that are even remotely convincing, then what exactly do you expect of us.
The hole that's been dug here is your own CG. You'll have to dig your way out of it yourself, don't expect us to do it for you.
None of this matters because the company that "lied" to you isn't around anymore. You might not be willing to forgive the company that lied to you; but you should be able to at least forgive the people that weren't directly responsible- like CG. He could have been completely professional and just ignored all your insults; but wouldn't that have alienated him from the community more? He IS a real person and demands respect just like everyone else. He could have silenced you all before any of this got started. He didn't have to put up with all this, but he did. In fact, he probably could have made himself just another tool of the company which would have protected him from any direct insults. But he cares about the community too much to do that. He wasn't afraid to throw down and rough it up with you guys. He can be sarcastic at times; but for the record, if you all would have been more respectful and patient, there wouldn't have been an issue. I'm finding it hard to nail down the real problem here. If it's against the company, then it's a moot point. If it's against CG, then it's misplaced. When things change this much, the logical thing to do is just reserve your opinions until you see new results. let's wait and see how RR handles EA2 before we slam down the judgment hammer.
Originally posted by CaesarsGhost it's not your fault they're returning that tricycle after the 30 day return policy, or that you don't take back used underwear because of health reasons, or that there's a 15% restocking fee on that Television.Whatever it is... it's your fault.
if i order the tricycle and they take my payment promising me some great, revolutionary tricycle then send me absolutly nothing. then lie about ever promising me one, then yeah it is your fault for continuing to work for scam artists.
seriously, my cousin worked for some 'insurance salesmen' who were basicly cheating the hell out of people. lying to them, not covering them for periods of time if they were 'healthy' etc etc. eventualy they got caught, and she was the one answering the phones at first. what, shes not deserving of jailtime i guess shes just the link to the customers, forget the fact a secretary was making over 200k a year for looking the other way and keeping stuff together right?
no matter how you try to play the 'poor little old me' card, its not going to work with those of us with above average intelligence and a general idea of what went on. you guys lied from the getgo way back when, the first ever story about RR on this site was a huge lie. promised preorder gifts, never gave them, lied about it. promised games, never came to pass, lied about it. lied about past employees, blamed them for things they never did. lied lied lied. knew they were nowhere near a working beta but lied about it up to a couple days before. lied. said the engine switch would take 3 months max, knew you didn't have a clue and there was no way. lied. blamed fans for 'leaks' as a reason for not giving out more info, ss, vidoes etc...lied. there was none to give, there was no info to leak. lied, lied, lied. you work for a bunch of criminal minded liars, and you are intelligent enough to know that. you, therefore are a liar. a spindoctor who even in this thread is still trying to blame the 'fans'. liar, coward, scum of the mmo world. mmocenter will not live it down, the 'real fans' won't let it happen, sorry. liar.
It is just a damned shame that this is true........I saw it first hand from near the inside, believe me, I did not lose out on anything not getting CG's job.......Thanks Ceasar for saving me from having to be in your position.
98% of the teenage population does or has accepted Marijauna propoganda. If you are one of the 2% that thinks for yourselves and has read any of the many scientific studies that prove cannabis is harmless then please paste this in your signiture.
I think RR are doing so-so making up for all the lies they have told us. Its just one thing that keeps bugging me... and that is RR's (written by CG) tactic to ALWAYS blame someone else.
1. Nathan
2. The Community full of NDA-breakers
3. Adam and Marc Ghetti
Who will be next?
(And what the heck happend to that angry lore-writer?)
And if you still think RR is a "Great" company.... just look at what they have given us so far... look at the brilliant diverse screenshots, read the fantastic feature list, dive deep in the remarkable lore.
I was just reading through and thinking about all this --
since RR lied about (pretty much) everything and RR was lead by the Boy Wonder - then perhaps the Boy Wonder was lying to RR...
Then I thought about what might have happened - beyond being simply fired, had CG actually spoke the Truth (or at least the truth as he understood it) Well, I know I don't have the cash for those kinds of legal fees.
Or with my vague mis-understandings of the inner workings of RR -- how easily it would be to speak out in such an environment -- Then that got me thinking about -- well, why didn't the creative folks doing the job just quit? Well, these worker bees either never existed or they might have just really not had the means to go looking for new work - or perhaps they did... I don't know. But, like any company - they would have probably just been replaced with new victims willing to swallow the little blue pill.
Just something I was thinking about.
If it's a different management team, then it'll (maybe) be a different company (that's how it usually works I think) - and besides if the Ultra-Top-Secret game is any good, I'll try it. I might not play it for more than an hour - but I'll be curious enough with all this drama to at least peek at it. If for no other reason then to confirm my suspicion that RR is still one of the many incarnations of the workings from the Prince of all that is Vile.
What constently baffles me is how we, as a community, completely refuse to take into consideration the past, our history and learn from our collective mistakes.
We've been through the debacle of Tulga Games and David Bowman with Horizons, yet do we learn anything? We've been through the ringer with Farlan and NP Cube with Dark and Light and yet, have we learned a thing? We've been through the multiple titles from Ages of Mourning to Thrones of Chaos with whatever company was trying to rip someone off that month and again, do we freaking learn a thing at all???
I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned untill I see proof, 100% transperency from this company, MMOCenter, the new and or old management and CG are not a single ounce better for this community then any of those so called companies I mentioned above. It's fraudulent and downright insulting to come in here and say things like: "You don't know what it's like to be me!" or "You can treat me as bad as you'd like but my life is sooooooooo hard" and I really don't get how anyone could tolerate it.
If this was me, if I somehow was given power for this "game's" public relations, my first suggestion would be to flip everything inside out. Open everything up, be smart about this, open up the beta forums, start a weekly conversation over IRC with the general public, post in the forums 50 times a day, disclose absolutely every inch of work you've done, publish a full A to Z list that your project managers have on what is comming up and possible timelines. That is the only way, IMVHO, that faith could and ever will be put back into these people.
But that wont happen, will it? And why not? Because we are being taken for a ride! A pure, simple, basic explanation.
It's time we wake up, learn from our mistakes and stop being the suckers that we love to be, because we want to hope for the little projects, we want to support small business and developement houses trying to stand up to the big guys. Unfortunately these people know that and they are playing off that knowledge
Originally posted by shae What constently baffles me is how we, as a community, completely refuse to take into consideration the past, our history and learn from our collective mistakes. We've been through the debacle of Tulga Games and David Bowman with Horizons, yet do we learn anything? We've been through the ringer with Farlan and NP Cube with Dark and Light and yet, have we learned a thing? We've been through the multiple titles from Ages of Mourning to Thrones of Chaos with whatever company was trying to rip someone off that month and again, do we freaking learn a thing at all??? I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned untill I see proof, 100% transperency from this company, MMOCenter, the new and or old management and CG are not a single ounce better for this community then any of those so called companies I mentioned above. It's fraudulent and downright insulting to come in here and say things like: "You don't know what it's like to be me!" or "You can treat me as bad as you'd like but my life is sooooooooo hard" and I really don't get how anyone could tolerate it. If this was me, if I somehow was given power for this "game's" public relations, my first suggestion would be to flip everything inside out. Open everything up, be smart about this, open up the beta forums, start a weekly conversation over IRC with the general public, post in the forums 50 times a day, disclose absolutely every inch of work you've done, publish a full A to Z list that your project managers have on what is comming up and possible timelines. That is the only way, IMVHO, that faith could and ever will be put back into these people. But that wont happen, will it? And why not? Because we are being taken for a ride! A pure, simple, basic explanation. It's time we wake up, learn from our mistakes and stop being the suckers that we love to be, because we want to hope for the little projects, we want to support small business and developement houses trying to stand up to the big guys. Unfortunately these people know that and they are playing off that knowledge That, in the end, is the saddest part about this.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Well done, Shae
Everytime RR fails miserably at something (i.e everything so far) they say:
"We will do this and that MUCH better now but we still cant tell you ANYTHING because we have just made this DEAL so we can be BIGGER and the GAME can be BETTER, the downside is that you STILL cant get ANY info about anything!"
What do we look forward to concerning TC?
Nothing in the games featurelist is still true! Nothing!
Originally posted by shae If this was me, if I somehow was given power for this "game's" public relations, my first suggestion would be to flip everything inside out. Open everything up, be smart about this, open up the beta forums, start a weekly conversation over IRC with the general public, post in the forums 50 times a day, disclose absolutely every inch of work you've done, publish a full A to Z list that your project managers have on what is comming up and possible timelines. That is the only way, IMVHO, that faith could and ever will be put back into these people.
I suggested that. It was made quickly clear the reasoning behind never doing this with any given company...
Sometimes it's money. Sometimes it's keeping from promising things that are/can not be done (which RR did in the past, and will no longer do). Sometimes it's for even further reasons.
I look forward to sharing all that information, but I can't right now because (see? Check that out... I'm even telling you why!) we have a contract with several mega-gamesites for first views and exclusives. So I guess... money and further reasons.
In the mean time, after you've posted all those great things. What do you give as updates? If the fans have everything, there's nothing new for them to consume.
I'm in IRC almost 18 hours a day answering questions. I post replies to all the threads on MMOCenter (most of which are in the Beta area), you should try... I mean I'm answering you here, aren't I? I realize you said you said you (shae) were through with RR awhile ago, I remember that when your thread got locked awhile back. But it seems you're here and wanting to deal with us (or maybe just me) in some way.
That's why I'm here answering questions, you got me excited you're coming back. I want people to come back, I want them to see we're a different company.
Or you can ask questions here, I'll answer them here if you'd like. That way you can't scream that I have the ability to delete or lock or edit your post.
I'm excited. I'm all giddy with anticipation now. Let's get this party started!
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title. "When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
Comments
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
I tend to agree with you, except for one thing. They removed the forum threads to try to deceive the playerbase, instead of just saying "things have changed". The fact they did that is one of the things that started everyone wanting refunds when, instead of getting answers, the players were basically called liars and the proof the players had removed. Fueling the fire by having CG say whatever was neccessary, whether it was true or not, just to quell the preorder anger and hold onto their money, added the big nail in the coffin. Just like DnL, Horizons, and other disasters lately, the biggest flaws have been ineffectual, incompetent wannabe devs with absolutely no business sense or ethics.
I figure: things changed -> old info removed -> questions answered -> eventually release a new features list.
Do they have to tell us every single time they remove a misinformative thread? I don't think it's deceptive not to tell us right away.
Once all the false info is removed, just look at what's left. That's the easiest way to find the current state of the game.
heck... RR might not even know what is still true. They need time to sort everything out. They did the right thing by erasing the old junk and starting over- since that IS what is happening.
People demanded info on aspects of the game that were promised. They were told that noone promised anything. Players then posted links to the threads on the beta forums where the promises had, indeed, been made. Suddenly, the linked threads disappeared. No mind reading needed.
RR acknowleges that things weren't right in the past and they want to start over. I think we can allow them that.
You want your refund? You got it. You wanna stick around? You'll be rewarded.
I'm sorry but... c'mon!
No flamming, no trolling, no anything but you have got to be kidding me???
How many times does a company have to outright lie to you for it to sink in? How many times is the comment: "But we're doing better now" enough? When and at what point do people wake up and realize they are just being strung along?
I'm really just completely at a loss, am I the last one to have any sort of common sense with this company???
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I'm sorry but... c'mon!
No flamming, no trolling, no anything but you have got to be kidding me???
How many times does a company have to outright lie to you for it to sink in? How many times is the comment: "But we're doing better now" enough? When and at what point do people wake up and realize they are just being strung along?
I'm really just completely at a loss, am I the last one to have any sort of common sense with this company???
Nah, there's a few of us, Shae
I'm sorry but... c'mon!
No flamming, no trolling, no anything but you have got to be kidding me???
How many times does a company have to outright lie to you for it to sink in? How many times is the comment: "But we're doing better now" enough? When and at what point do people wake up and realize they are just being strung along?
I'm really just completely at a loss, am I the last one to have any sort of common sense with this company???
Nah, there's a few of us, Shae
I hope so, or else I'm comming in here with a big rubber mallet with the words Acme written on it to knock some sense into these people.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
I'm sorry but... c'mon!
No flamming, no trolling, no anything but you have got to be kidding me???
How many times does a company have to outright lie to you for it to sink in? How many times is the comment: "But we're doing better now" enough? When and at what point do people wake up and realize they are just being strung along?
I'm really just completely at a loss, am I the last one to have any sort of common sense with this company???
Nah, there's a few of us, Shae
I hope so, or else I'm comming in here with a big rubber mallet with the words Acme written on it to knock some sense into these people.
Hmmm. *Looks around, starts scrounging through boxes* Now where did I put those portable holes and the paint to make the train tunnels?
I'm sorry but... c'mon!
No flamming, no trolling, no anything but you have got to be kidding me???
How many times does a company have to outright lie to you for it to sink in? How many times is the comment: "But we're doing better now" enough? When and at what point do people wake up and realize they are just being strung along?
I'm really just completely at a loss, am I the last one to have any sort of common sense with this company???
Nah, there's a few of us, Shae
I hope so, or else I'm comming in here with a big rubber mallet with the words Acme written on it to knock some sense into these people.
Hmmm. *Looks around, starts scrounging through boxes* Now where did I put those portable holes and the paint to make the train tunnels?
LOL ah ha !!! That's where CG's backbone went, through one of your little portable holes to nothingness.
Oh oh oh... and maybe the feature list for The Chronicle was written in disapearing/re-appearing ink, with the re-appearing part of course.
I think we're on to something here Zor
.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
Still here.
And I'm still going to do the job better regardless of how poorly you'll continue to treat me. Why? Because if I let 1 or 2 vocal people get to me about what my old boss did then I'll be putting myself in a bad position to do a great job in the future. So you have your grand fun, I'll be doing my job anyways.
Who knows, after you start hearing enough good things you'll come back to see for yourself. I look forward to the opportunity to try again with all of you.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
Still here.
And I'm still going to do the job better regardless of how poorly you'll continue to treat me. Why? Because if I let 1 or 2 vocal people get to me about what my old boss did then I'll be putting myself in a bad position to do a great job in the future. So you have your grand fun, I'll be doing my job anyways.
Who knows, after you start hearing enough good things you'll come back to see for yourself. I look forward to the opportunity to try again with all of you.
CG, have you ever heard the saying: "In the absense of genuine leadership, people will listen to anyone who steps up to the podium"?
We haven't treated you poorly, we have reacted to how you have treated us, we have not changed our oppinion because there has been no other oppinion to judge you by.
To put it another way, you sold out the people that were most willing to support you, not just the game CG, but you! When doubt started to merge into fact you left us all to linger and come to our own conclusions. (see quote above)
It's not up to us CG, it's up to you. Start doing better things and people will go back to you. You've been famous so far for passing the buck off and blaming the fans for your woes, it would be a nice change to see some responsibility be taken.
EDIT:
And it's not 1 or 2 people saying this CG, it's almost absolutely everyone who was thoroughly excited about this game and you as a community rep. Saying this once again re-inforces how disassociated you have become from the community and you continuously refuse to take responsibility for how people have been treated.
I'd say it's shamefull but I don't think that will ever sink in with you, will it?
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Actually I have taken responsibility on the occassions it was my fault after the change.
Being a CM is a thankless job normally - the people who read the posts will just read it, the people who are out to get you are normally the ones who reply.
Helpless as I am to change your mind about what I might or might not have been through, I ask you 1 quick question:
Have you ever worked Customer Service?
Like a phone service agency? How about worked the Return table at WalMart (or equivalent store)?
Any time you can't fix something the customer jumps to "It's your fault." Not the company you work for, or the CEO or Manager who makes that decision... it's you. You're the front man, you're the person who stands there and takes it... it's not your fault they're returning that tricycle after the 30 day return policy, or that you don't take back used underwear because of health reasons, or that there's a 15% restocking fee on that Television.
Whatever it is... it's your fault. And you can't do anything but sit there and preach the company line.
I'm the digital equivalent. Doesn't matter how much I want to help, it's the company policy that can't be bypassed. Now that this policy has changed, so has how we work with the Community.
I'm not a waiter who didn't check the table regularly to see if anybody needed refills (if you remember, I was always on the Forums basicly), I was a service representative with a "What you can/can't do" list in front of me I could not deviate from and canned answers for comon questions from somebody who'd never (and probably will never) have to sit in my position.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
It's a well written response CG and there's not a lick of it that I dissagree with.
Yes, some "Parts" of your job suck, they are unique and yup they can't be very much fun. I, or rather "we", understand that and have understood that for a long time. But you say it's thankless and that... well that's a bit of a stretch don't you think? How often have people posted things like: "CG, we know it's rough but can you..." then fill in the blanks.
To answer your question, yes absolutely I've done Customer Service work and as a matter of fact both jobs I hold right now (in University also) are more or less CS jobs. The first is a Rep job at EBGames and the second is a QA Test for a software company. Both offer plenty of opportunity to the front line person for my perspective jobs and company, it's not always easy but I chose both jobs and I work happily because of just that, I choose to work there.
And so did you CG, you chose to work there, you chose to stay, you chose to be in that position and with all that comes the responsibility of either succeeding or failing with us.
But still, I'll re-iterate to my original point. You blame us but it comes back to the fact that when there is nothing else to follow, no other presence, when there seems to be a fundemental lack of leadership with no other words that are even remotely convincing, then what exactly do you expect of us.
The hole that's been dug here is your own CG. You'll have to dig your way out of it yourself, don't expect us to do it for you.
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He could have been completely professional and just ignored all your insults; but wouldn't that have alienated him from the community more?
He IS a real person and demands respect just like everyone else. He could have silenced you all before any of this got started. He didn't have to put up with all this, but he did. In fact, he probably could have made himself just another tool of the company which would have protected him from any direct insults. But he cares about the community too much to do that. He wasn't afraid to throw down and rough it up with you guys. He can be sarcastic at times; but for the record, if you all would have been more respectful and patient, there wouldn't have been an issue.
I'm finding it hard to nail down the real problem here. If it's against the company, then it's a moot point. If it's against CG, then it's misplaced.
When things change this much, the logical thing to do is just reserve your opinions until you see new results. let's wait and see how RR handles EA2 before we slam down the judgment hammer.
if i order the tricycle and they take my payment promising me some great, revolutionary tricycle then send me absolutly nothing. then lie about ever promising me one, then yeah it is your fault for continuing to work for scam artists.
seriously, my cousin worked for some 'insurance salesmen' who were basicly cheating the hell out of people. lying to them, not covering them for periods of time if they were 'healthy' etc etc.
eventualy they got caught, and she was the one answering the phones at first. what, shes not deserving of jailtime i guess shes just the link to the customers, forget the fact a secretary was making over 200k a year for looking the other way and keeping stuff together right?
no matter how you try to play the 'poor little old me' card, its not going to work with those of us with above average intelligence and a general idea of what went on. you guys lied from the getgo way back when, the first ever story about RR on this site was a huge lie.
promised preorder gifts, never gave them, lied about it.
promised games, never came to pass, lied about it.
lied about past employees, blamed them for things they never did. lied lied lied.
knew they were nowhere near a working beta but lied about it up to a couple days before. lied.
said the engine switch would take 3 months max, knew you didn't have a clue and there was no way. lied.
blamed fans for 'leaks' as a reason for not giving out more info, ss, vidoes etc...lied. there was none to give, there was no info to leak. lied, lied, lied.
you work for a bunch of criminal minded liars, and you are intelligent enough to know that. you, therefore are a liar. a spindoctor who even in this thread is still trying to blame the 'fans'. liar, coward, scum of the mmo world. mmocenter will not live it down, the 'real fans' won't let it happen, sorry. liar.
98% of the teenage population does or has accepted Marijauna propoganda. If you are one of the 2% that thinks for yourselves and has read any of the many scientific studies that prove cannabis is harmless then please paste this in your signiture.
1. Nathan
2. The Community full of NDA-breakers
3. Adam and Marc Ghetti
Who will be next?
(And what the heck happend to that angry lore-writer?)
And if you still think RR is a "Great" company.... just look at what they have given us so far... look at the brilliant diverse screenshots, read the fantastic feature list, dive deep in the remarkable lore.
1½ years and they have NOTHING.
I was just reading through and thinking about all this --
since RR lied about (pretty much) everything
and RR was lead by the Boy Wonder
- then perhaps the Boy Wonder was lying to RR...
Then I thought about what might have happened - beyond being simply fired, had CG actually spoke the Truth
(or at least the truth as he understood it) Well, I know I don't have the cash for those kinds of legal fees.
Or with my vague mis-understandings of the inner workings of RR -- how easily it would be to speak out in such an environment --
Then that got me thinking about --
well, why didn't the creative folks doing the job just quit? Well, these worker bees either never existed or they might have just really not had the means to go looking for new work - or perhaps they did... I don't know. But, like any company - they would have probably just been replaced with new victims willing to swallow the little blue pill.
Just something I was thinking about.
If it's a different management team, then it'll (maybe) be a different company (that's how it usually works I think) - and besides if the Ultra-Top-Secret game is any good, I'll try it. I might not play it for more than an hour - but I'll be curious enough with all this drama to at least peek at it. If for no other reason then to confirm my suspicion that RR is still one of the many incarnations of the workings from the Prince of all that is Vile.
What constently baffles me is how we, as a community, completely refuse to take into consideration the past, our history and learn from our collective mistakes.
We've been through the debacle of Tulga Games and David Bowman with Horizons, yet do we learn anything? We've been through the ringer with Farlan and NP Cube with Dark and Light and yet, have we learned a thing? We've been through the multiple titles from Ages of Mourning to Thrones of Chaos with whatever company was trying to rip someone off that month and again, do we freaking learn a thing at all???
I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned untill I see proof, 100% transperency from this company, MMOCenter, the new and or old management and CG are not a single ounce better for this community then any of those so called companies I mentioned above. It's fraudulent and downright insulting to come in here and say things like: "You don't know what it's like to be me!" or "You can treat me as bad as you'd like but my life is sooooooooo hard" and I really don't get how anyone could tolerate it.
If this was me, if I somehow was given power for this "game's" public relations, my first suggestion would be to flip everything inside out. Open everything up, be smart about this, open up the beta forums, start a weekly conversation over IRC with the general public, post in the forums 50 times a day, disclose absolutely every inch of work you've done, publish a full A to Z list that your project managers have on what is comming up and possible timelines. That is the only way, IMVHO, that faith could and ever will be put back into these people.
But that wont happen, will it? And why not? Because we are being taken for a ride! A pure, simple, basic explanation.
It's time we wake up, learn from our mistakes and stop being the suckers that we love to be, because we want to hope for the little projects, we want to support small business and developement houses trying to stand up to the big guys. Unfortunately these people know that and they are playing off that knowledge
That, in the end, is the saddest part about this.
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"We will do this and that MUCH better now but we still cant tell you ANYTHING because we have just made this DEAL so we can be BIGGER and the GAME can be BETTER, the downside is that you STILL cant get ANY info about anything!"
What do we look forward to concerning TC?
Nothing in the games featurelist is still true! Nothing!
I suggested that. It was made quickly clear the reasoning behind never doing this with any given company...
Sometimes it's money.
Sometimes it's keeping from promising things that are/can not be done (which RR did in the past, and will no longer do).
Sometimes it's for even further reasons.
I look forward to sharing all that information, but I can't right now because (see? Check that out... I'm even telling you why!) we have a contract with several mega-gamesites for first views and exclusives.
So I guess... money and further reasons.
In the mean time, after you've posted all those great things. What do you give as updates? If the fans have everything, there's nothing new for them to consume.
I'm in IRC almost 18 hours a day answering questions. I post replies to all the threads on MMOCenter (most of which are in the Beta area), you should try... I mean I'm answering you here, aren't I?
I realize you said you said you (shae) were through with RR awhile ago, I remember that when your thread got locked awhile back. But it seems you're here and wanting to deal with us (or maybe just me) in some way.
That's why I'm here answering questions, you got me excited you're coming back. I want people to come back, I want them to see we're a different company.
Or you can ask questions here, I'll answer them here if you'd like. That way you can't scream that I have the ability to delete or lock or edit your post.
I'm excited. I'm all giddy with anticipation now. Let's get this party started!
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."