Originally posted by dink anarchyart - By replying to my post that points out your deception through omission with spiteful and dishonest (either directly or through omission - again) answers, you no longer deserve the courtesy of a complete response.
Oh so sorry DINK, didn't want to upset a guy with the name DINK! All I said was true, wait till release to see. Until then see ya DINK!
You Vanguard fans ever consider why WoW is so popular?
Will a "deep depth game" be able to maintain that level of player base and diverse crowd?
And will SoE push the panic button if Vanguard fails to capture the larger casual base that wants to relax and have fun not work at a game like WoW did?
Seriosuly, I love the POTENTIAL of Vanguard, I fear the SoE and come on, reality check folks, the WoW effect is something you have to consider. Why would an investor drop millions into a game that is not captureing the larger $$ by focusing on "that hard stuff" (as some causauls would see it)...
I just think Vanguard will be a victim of the above.
Originally posted by dink anarchyart - By replying to my post that points out your deception through omission with spiteful and dishonest (either directly or through omission - again) answers, you no longer deserve the courtesy of a complete response.
LOL! You don't like how he called your misinformation BS - so you dismiss him. Heh, whatever. Doesn't change the fact that your original post was BS!
Originally posted by anarchyart Imagine WoW with more realistic graphics, Gryphons you can fly anywhere you want, Ships you can craft and Pilot yourself, Player Housing and NO INSTANCES! This is Vanguard! www.joinvanguard.com
Do you have some connection to VG or something? Work for them? All I ever see from your post regarding VG is blind fanatism.
If you think people that liked WoW will like VG you have some serious mis-conceptions of how VG plays.
Originally posted by GungaDin Thanks for the heads up, I lasted 2 weeks in WOW before I realized the game sucked (to me). Guess I'll pass on this latest MMORPG as well. Now if you liked WOW , then kudos to you, enjoy. Not for me
I LOVED WoW, except for the fact that it wasn't as deep and the levelling went so fast. Vanguard answer these problems.
Do you have some connection to VG or something? Work for them? All I ever see from your post regarding VG is blind fanatism.
If you think people that liked WoW will like VG you have some serious mis-conceptions of how VG plays.
You'll see.
No, you'll see. Both games are obviously very similar in many respects. Both are fantasy based game with melee, ranged and magic based characters. Both are level and quest based. Vanguard just happens to be going for more depth and a sandbox feel. I KNOW many WoW fans will really enjoy WoW.
And no, I don't work for Vanguard or sigil or anything nor am I the second shooter on the grassy knoll.. Do you work for blizzard?
Originally posted by anarchyart No, you'll see. Both games are obviously very similar in many respects. Both are fantasy based game with melee, ranged and magic based characters. Both are level and quest based. Vanguard just happens to be going for more depth and a sandbox feel. I KNOW many WoW fans will really enjoy WoW. And no, I don't work for Vanguard or sigil or anything nor am I the second shooter on the grassy knoll.. Do you work for blizzard?
Both play on a computer too, and online, oh my gawd, all the Sims, Sports Gamers, FPS players and Pervs downloading Pamala Anderson vids will also love VG because it PLAYS ON A COMPUTER! If only they could put it on the console and automagically all those people would love it too!
If all you had to have was the features you posted to be a game WoW players would like then almost every single MMO out right now would be something WoW players would "love".
Seriously, you need to do your research, play test at a convention or get into beta/etc before you make claims like you have.
...And yeah, I work for blizzard like the other 7million employees, I also work for SoE and NCSoft. I'm very busy.
I've seen fanatics before but geeze I didn't think anyone was this... gullable.
Both play on a computer too, and online, oh my gawd, all the Sims, Sports Gamers, FPS players and Pervs downloading Pamala Anderson vids will also love VG because it PLAYS ON A COMPUTER! If only they could put it on the console and automagically all those people would love it too!
If all you had to have was the features you posted to be a game WoW players would like then almost every single MMO out right now would be something WoW players would "love".
Seriously, you need to do your research, play test at a convention or get into beta/etc before you make claims like you have.
...And yeah, I work for blizzard like the other 7million employees, I also work for SoE and NCSoft. I'm very busy.
I've seen fanatics before but geeze I didn't think anyone was this... gullable.
Ok Festus, instead of just being a dink (one of the posters in this thread), tell me precisely what part of what I said do you think is wrong so that I may rebut in a concise fashion.
Originally posted by MrVicchio You Vanguard fans ever consider why WoW is so popular?
Why would an investor drop millions into a game that is not captureing the larger $$ by focusing on "that hard stuff" (as some causauls would see it)...
1. Casual gamers do not dislike CHALLENGING content. A lot of the content in WoW is difficult to overcome. What they dislike is timesinks. If you want to understand mainstream gamers then this is a really key difference. Disliking timesinks does not mean that people want an "easy" game. They just don't want to feel like a game is wasting their time. Bring on the difficult challenges but keep the timesinks.
2. I don't think that SOE is going to force Vanguard to become a more friendly experience for mainstream gamers. I think the current compromises are as much as they will be able to get out of McQuaid, et al. Also, they probably have learned their lesson from SWG and CoX's blunders that moving the game away from it's core audience would be a bad thing for the game. I'm betting that they are already forecasting only having around 100K-200K subscribers, but they'll still make money from that.
Originally posted by anarchyartOk Festus, instead of just being a dink (one of the posters in this thread), tell me precisely what part of what I said do you think is wrong so that I may rebut in a concise fashion.
You said simply that because the game had quests, was level based and is a fantasy based game WoW players will like it.
Point of fact, there are a TON of games that exist with those same "features" and yet WoW players don't like them (EQ2 anyone?)
If all games needed to do was have quests, have levels and be fantasy based to be popular why did it take something like WoW to bring in 7mil + gamers?
So, unless you've actually played WoW and VG I don't think you can say WoW players will love VG simply because of the reasons you stated.
As I said, get in beta, go play at a convention or go watch game play movies. Then compare that to WoW.
I seriously doubt, based on my own experience, that WoW players will "LOVE" VG. A quick read on their forums, system requirements and gameplay will probably give others that same impression.
Originally posted by Celestian You said simply that because the game had quests, was level based and is a fantasy based game WoW players will like it.
Ok, also there are more races than WoW, more classes, player housing, player crafted ships, flying mounts, a deep yet easy to learn crafting system, a bigger world than WoW and the list goes on and on. If you loved WoW but wished it was deeper then you will LOVE Vanguard. I stand by that, and wait until release or for the NDA to be lifted and you will stand by it too.
Also, if I was in beta I wouldn't be able to tell you anyway.
Ok, also there are more races than WoW, more classes, player housing, player crafted ships, flying mounts, a deep yet easy to learn crafting system, a bigger world than WoW and the list goes on and on. If you loved WoW but wished it was deeper then you will LOVE Vanguard. I stand by that, and wait until release or for the NDA to be lifted and you will stand by it too.
Sure, sounds like VG is wonderful, but what about the pvp? If you truly love WoW, that's like the first question you'd ask.
Vanguard is for ppl that are bored with the ease of wow. The main difference between wow and vg is the time it will take to travel from one area to the next. This is what i thinnk will put alot of ppl of the game.
Theres alot of us that are bored with just lvling up or doing raids in wow. The reason vg seems appealing to us is that there will be longer lvling and a death penalty. The wow style casual gameplay is one big grind for alot of us. We are fed up of just doing quests, meaningless death penalties or just lvling up.
There will be alot of ppl that find vg too hard and with too many time sinks but these thing are what make the game meaningful for alot of us.
Originally posted by Sineath If Vanguard is anything like EQ1 or EQ2, they'll charge you to buy the game, require a high end computer, charge you a monthly fee, charge you for each of a bunch of tiny benefits, and charge you for multiple expansions each year. I'm not sure I like that.
Oh boy, you just started my rant engine again! I'm with you on this point. Except it's not: "I'm not sure I like that.", for me it's more like "I won't tollerate that!" Given that Sigil has teamed up with the "marketing genius" of $OE, I very much expect spam premium content releases.
Now there is a small chance that I would be forced to tolerate it in the future. I would be forced if masses of gamers tolerated it and it became the normal thing to do. But, thankfully, it has only happened so far with second rate games that I couldn't care less about (*cough*EQ2*cough*).
For quality game companies, $OE and EA should refer to Blizzard, Bioware and Epic Games. Blizzard has probably already fallen from the list (althought one paid expansion after lots of free additions is okay with me), but only the future will tell. Here's hoping they can all stay strong!
Originally posted by sebbonx Hey if you want to have: Soloers: Chestplate of extreme suckiness AC20 +5wisdom (appears like n00b armor) Group: Chestplate of lesser suckiness AC25 +8wisdom +10mana (appears like shiny n00b armor) Raid: Chestplate of Superman AC50 +25wisdom +5mana regen bramblecoat for uba PLing (appears well GODLIKE) All because your "teamwork" involves nolife losers that raid 6 times a week for 6-12 hours a night, and won't let anyone else join the guild, go for it! The people with LIVES outside a stupid game won't put up with this crappola anymore. Guess what, no income for your crappy game and it gets cancelled. WoW has 8 million+ players now, and you have nothing in any of your miniscule games to compete. These same guilds will sit on raid mobs forever and ever with their legion of mindless 15-21 year olds that at most flip burgers and other meaningless and menial employment just like the current crop of FoH and ROI members in EQ.
He has a valid point. I'm a college student with not that much free time outside of essays and calculus. With the amount of time I have to play a game I do not want to waste it doing something boring that in the end, after maybe a 2 hour play session, I get 1/50th of a bar of experience.
People who think WoW lacks depth and challenge are the people who have way too much free time on their hands. I personally find WoW endearing and have made many friends there. I really don't see how people can hate it.
I am not adverse to challenge in an MMORPG but I am concerned with this mentality that Loss > Reward somehow makes MMO's like Vanguard or EQ better than it or any other slightly more casual friendly games.
That being said I will try Vanguard just as I've tried EQ, EQ2, DAoC(Before it went...). It will get its fair chance but to outright call something better than something else before the community has dirtied their hands is kind of pompous and arrogant.
Originally posted by sebbonx Hey if you want to have: Soloers: Chestplate of extreme suckiness AC20 +5wisdom (appears like n00b armor) Group: Chestplate of lesser suckiness AC25 +8wisdom +10mana (appears like shiny n00b armor) Raid: Chestplate of Superman AC50 +25wisdom +5mana regen bramblecoat for uba PLing (appears well GODLIKE) All because your "teamwork" involves nolife losers that raid 6 times a week for 6-12 hours a night, and won't let anyone else join the guild, go for it! The people with LIVES outside a stupid game won't put up with this crappola anymore. Guess what, no income for your crappy game and it gets cancelled. WoW has 8 million+ players now, and you have nothing in any of your miniscule games to compete. These same guilds will sit on raid mobs forever and ever with their legion of mindless 15-21 year olds that at most flip burgers and other meaningless and menial employment just like the current crop of FoH and ROI members in EQ.
He has a valid point. I'm a college student with not that much free time outside of essays and calculus. With the amount of time I have to play a game I do not want to waste it doing something boring that in the end, after maybe a 2 hour play session, I get 1/50th of a bar of experience.
People who think WoW lacks depth and challenge are the people who have way too much free time on their hands. I personally find WoW endearing and have made many friends there. I really don't see how people can hate it.
I am not adverse to challenge in an MMORPG but I am concerned with this mentality that Loss > Reward somehow makes MMO's like Vanguard or EQ better than it or any other slightly more casual friendly games.
That being said I will try Vanguard just as I've tried EQ, EQ2, DAoC(Before it went...). It will get its fair chance but to outright call something better than something else before the community has dirtied their hands is kind of pompous and arrogant.
WoW is the Britney Spears of MMO's.
Sure, she sells a ton more albums then the Racontuers, but are you seriously going to tell me it's better music? Just because she sells more simplistic, poppy and popular music, doesn't make it better, it just means a LOT of people like crappy music...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Originally posted by Shazzel Player Housing, Never a fan of any housing myself. It adds nothing to gameplay.. Having a flashback of all the junky areas in SWG, lame instanced houses in EQ2 or the always craptastic/lagy/buged housing zone found in DAOC.
I would agree, instanced housing not nearly as valuable. In SWG, before the NGE anyway, there were vibrant player cities, businesses, streets, common areas to congregate, cantina's all created by players. It was a huge part of the game play. It was a trhiving virtual world, not a mere game such as WoW.
Originally posted by thomas.hart Vanguard is for ppl that are bored with the ease of wow. The main difference between wow and vg is the time it will take to travel from one area to the next. This is what i thinnk will put alot of ppl of the game.
The time it takes to travel seems to be Brad's love of this creation. If you want something simple and quick VSoH might be problematic for you. I like the idea of the long travels ect, however, I fear I may not have hours to invest on travel with little to gain. Everything is just speculation untill release. I will give it a try, if the game is too demanding for me I'll have to give it up.
Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by Celestian You said simply that because the game had quests, was level based and is a fantasy based game WoW players will like it.
Ok, also there are more races than WoW, more classes, player housing, player crafted ships, flying mounts, a deep yet easy to learn crafting system, a bigger world than WoW and the list goes on and on. If you loved WoW but wished it was deeper then you will LOVE Vanguard. I stand by that, and wait until release or for the NDA to be lifted and you will stand by it too.
Also, if I was in beta I wouldn't be able to tell you anyway.
EQ2 has more races and classes than wow, player housing, bigger world and a pretty complex crafting system. Again it's not got the numbers of WoW. Are you saying people will love VG if they played and loved WoW simply because it has flying mounts and craftable ships?
Do you KNOW the crafting system is easy to learn? If you do I doubt you can answer that but I put the question to you none-the-less.
Your statement is like that of a publishing company trying to get sales. It has no real substance to back up it's claims.
Originally posted by ShiloFields Originally posted by Shazzel Player Housing, Never a fan of any housing myself. It adds nothing to gameplay.. Having a flashback of all the junky areas in SWG, lame instanced houses in EQ2 or the always craptastic/lagy/buged housing zone found in DAOC.
I would agree, instanced housing not nearly as valuable. In SWG, before the NGE anyway, there were vibrant player cities, businesses, streets, common areas to congregate, cantina's all created by players. It was a huge part of the game play. It was a trhiving virtual world, not a mere game such as WoW.
Originally posted by anarchyart Imagine WoW with more realistic graphics, Gryphons you can fly anywhere you want, Ships you can craft and Pilot yourself, Player Housing and NO INSTANCES! This is Vanguard! www.joinvanguard.com
Imagine WoW except now you can be killed on the way back to your corpse, and the gear that you were wearing is trapped on it. Additionally, each time you die, you lose xp.
Also, imagine a huge world that is mostly barren and only made large so that traveling between objectives and getting to your friends is more difficult.
Imagine a game that doesn't have mini-maps or radar so that finding where you are going and what to do is extremely inaccessible.
Imagine WoW except that if you play solo, your gear will be crap. You'll need to join groups to get gear that is good enough that you can eventually join in raiding.
There are some cool things in Vanguard to be sure, but don't kid yourself that it will appeal to the millions that loved WoW. There is a reason that most of these hardcore elements are not in popular games.
Yeah thats what many hardcore Pver's fail to realize. Millions love WoW for a reason. they made it easy to level. Rested xp bonus + no debt was a godsend. Vanguard looks great. I'll probably try it. But I have no illusions it'll overthrow WoW. Any game that has debt is just a grind. Why do these stupid devs keep thinking gamers like to be punished for every single mistake we make
We just have different tastes. I personallly don't want to play wow. It's just too easy. With the fast lvling and no punishment i just end up feeling like im chewing up content. It's all the same. Doesn't matter if the ghaphic looks like a scary monster or a halfline. clicking the same buttons over and over just gets a bit dull.
Been punished for dieing is what makes the game last. It give me a sense or reward.
I personally would prefer no max lvl (as long as the content is there).
Vanguard i've heard will be alot like wow. There will be a few changes tho. Such as long traveling times and a harsher death pen. If you don't like this stuff don't play the game. I just don't want to see a million ppl moaning if they don't like it.
Comments
Will a "deep depth game" be able to maintain that level of player base and diverse crowd?
And will SoE push the panic button if Vanguard fails to capture the larger casual base that wants to relax and have fun not work at a game like WoW did?
Seriosuly, I love the POTENTIAL of Vanguard, I fear the SoE and come on, reality check folks, the WoW effect is something you have to consider. Why would an investor drop millions into a game that is not captureing the larger $$ by focusing on "that hard stuff" (as some causauls would see it)...
I just think Vanguard will be a victim of the above.
Always change your signature.
LOL! You don't like how he called your misinformation BS - so you dismiss him. Heh, whatever. Doesn't change the fact that your original post was BS!
Do you have some connection to VG or something? Work for them? All I ever see from your post regarding VG is blind fanatism.
If you think people that liked WoW will like VG you have some serious mis-conceptions of how VG plays.
You'll see.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Thanks for the heads up, I lasted 2 weeks in WOW before I realized the game sucked (to me). Guess I'll pass on this latest MMORPG as well.
Now if you liked WOW , then kudos to you, enjoy. Not for me
No, you'll see. Both games are obviously very similar in many respects. Both are fantasy based game with melee, ranged and magic based characters. Both are level and quest based. Vanguard just happens to be going for more depth and a sandbox feel. I KNOW many WoW fans will really enjoy WoW.
And no, I don't work for Vanguard or sigil or anything nor am I the second shooter on the grassy knoll.. Do you work for blizzard?
Both play on a computer too, and online, oh my gawd, all the Sims, Sports Gamers, FPS players and Pervs downloading Pamala Anderson vids will also love VG because it PLAYS ON A COMPUTER! If only they could put it on the console and automagically all those people would love it too!
If all you had to have was the features you posted to be a game WoW players would like then almost every single MMO out right now would be something WoW players would "love".
Seriously, you need to do your research, play test at a convention or get into beta/etc before you make claims like you have.
...And yeah, I work for blizzard like the other 7million employees, I also work for SoE and NCSoft. I'm very busy.
I've seen fanatics before but geeze I didn't think anyone was this... gullable.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
2. I don't think that SOE is going to force Vanguard to become a more friendly experience for mainstream gamers. I think the current compromises are as much as they will be able to get out of McQuaid, et al. Also, they probably have learned their lesson from SWG and CoX's blunders that moving the game away from it's core audience would be a bad thing for the game. I'm betting that they are already forecasting only having around 100K-200K subscribers, but they'll still make money from that.
You said simply that because the game had quests, was level based and is a fantasy based game WoW players will like it.
Point of fact, there are a TON of games that exist with those same "features" and yet WoW players don't like them (EQ2 anyone?)
If all games needed to do was have quests, have levels and be fantasy based to be popular why did it take something like WoW to bring in 7mil + gamers?
So, unless you've actually played WoW and VG I don't think you can say WoW players will love VG simply because of the reasons you stated.
As I said, get in beta, go play at a convention or go watch game play movies. Then compare that to WoW.
I seriously doubt, based on my own experience, that WoW players will "LOVE" VG. A quick read on their forums, system requirements and gameplay will probably give others that same impression.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Ok, also there are more races than WoW, more classes, player housing, player crafted ships, flying mounts, a deep yet easy to learn crafting system, a bigger world than WoW and the list goes on and on. If you loved WoW but wished it was deeper then you will LOVE Vanguard. I stand by that, and wait until release or for the NDA to be lifted and you will stand by it too.
Also, if I was in beta I wouldn't be able to tell you anyway.
Vanguard is for ppl that are bored with the ease of wow. The main difference between wow and vg is the time it will take to travel from one area to the next. This is what i thinnk will put alot of ppl of the game.
Theres alot of us that are bored with just lvling up or doing raids in wow. The reason vg seems appealing to us is that there will be longer lvling and a death penalty. The wow style casual gameplay is one big grind for alot of us. We are fed up of just doing quests, meaningless death penalties or just lvling up.
There will be alot of ppl that find vg too hard and with too many time sinks but these thing are what make the game meaningful for alot of us.
It's all about depth in vg, which wow lacks.
Oh boy, you just started my rant engine again! I'm with you on this point. Except it's not: "I'm not sure I like that.", for me it's more like "I won't tollerate that!" Given that Sigil has teamed up with the "marketing genius" of $OE, I very much expect spam premium content releases.
Now there is a small chance that I would be forced to tolerate it in the future. I would be forced if masses of gamers tolerated it and it became the normal thing to do. But, thankfully, it has only happened so far with second rate games that I couldn't care less about (*cough*EQ2*cough*).
For quality game companies, $OE and EA should refer to Blizzard, Bioware and Epic Games. Blizzard has probably already fallen from the list (althought one paid expansion after lots of free additions is okay with me), but only the future will tell. Here's hoping they can all stay strong!
People who think WoW lacks depth and challenge are the people who have way too much free time on their hands. I personally find WoW endearing and have made many friends there. I really don't see how people can hate it.
I am not adverse to challenge in an MMORPG but I am concerned with this mentality that Loss > Reward somehow makes MMO's like Vanguard or EQ better than it or any other slightly more casual friendly games.
That being said I will try Vanguard just as I've tried EQ, EQ2, DAoC(Before it went...). It will get its fair chance but to outright call something better than something else before the community has dirtied their hands is kind of pompous and arrogant.
People who think WoW lacks depth and challenge are the people who have way too much free time on their hands. I personally find WoW endearing and have made many friends there. I really don't see how people can hate it.
I am not adverse to challenge in an MMORPG but I am concerned with this mentality that Loss > Reward somehow makes MMO's like Vanguard or EQ better than it or any other slightly more casual friendly games.
That being said I will try Vanguard just as I've tried EQ, EQ2, DAoC(Before it went...). It will get its fair chance but to outright call something better than something else before the community has dirtied their hands is kind of pompous and arrogant.
WoW is the Britney Spears of MMO's.
Sure, she sells a ton more albums then the Racontuers, but are you seriously going to tell me it's better music? Just because she sells more simplistic, poppy and popular music, doesn't make it better, it just means a LOT of people like crappy music...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Ok, also there are more races than WoW, more classes, player housing, player crafted ships, flying mounts, a deep yet easy to learn crafting system, a bigger world than WoW and the list goes on and on. If you loved WoW but wished it was deeper then you will LOVE Vanguard. I stand by that, and wait until release or for the NDA to be lifted and you will stand by it too.
Also, if I was in beta I wouldn't be able to tell you anyway.
EQ2 has more races and classes than wow, player housing, bigger world and a pretty complex crafting system. Again it's not got the numbers of WoW. Are you saying people will love VG if they played and loved WoW simply because it has flying mounts and craftable ships?
Do you KNOW the crafting system is easy to learn? If you do I doubt you can answer that but I put the question to you none-the-less.
Your statement is like that of a publishing company trying to get sales. It has no real substance to back up it's claims.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Urban sprawl. . .
Also, imagine a huge world that is mostly barren and only made large so that traveling between objectives and getting to your friends is more difficult.
Imagine a game that doesn't have mini-maps or radar so that finding where you are going and what to do is extremely inaccessible.
Imagine WoW except that if you play solo, your gear will be crap. You'll need to join groups to get gear that is good enough that you can eventually join in raiding.
There are some cool things in Vanguard to be sure, but don't kid yourself that it will appeal to the millions that loved WoW. There is a reason that most of these hardcore elements are not in popular games.
Yeah thats what many hardcore Pver's fail to realize. Millions love WoW for a reason. they made it easy to level. Rested xp bonus + no debt was a godsend. Vanguard looks great. I'll probably try it. But I have no illusions it'll overthrow WoW. Any game that has debt is just a grind. Why do these stupid devs keep thinking gamers like to be punished for every single mistake we make
We just have different tastes. I personallly don't want to play wow. It's just too easy. With the fast lvling and no punishment i just end up feeling like im chewing up content. It's all the same. Doesn't matter if the ghaphic looks like a scary monster or a halfline. clicking the same buttons over and over just gets a bit dull.
Been punished for dieing is what makes the game last. It give me a sense or reward.
I personally would prefer no max lvl (as long as the content is there).
Vanguard i've heard will be alot like wow. There will be a few changes tho. Such as long traveling times and a harsher death pen. If you don't like this stuff don't play the game. I just don't want to see a million ppl moaning if they don't like it.