Originally posted by BlazinBlades A person can always be considered a fool or non intelligent anytime they do not agree with the masses. It does not mean they are non intelligent nor a fool it only means that others do not wish to agree nor do they wish to look outside of the box that they have allowed themselves to be easily convinced into. Most times anyone who does in fact disagree with others they usually are always considered a fool or non intelligent, simple because it allows the others to feel slightly superior in their own ideologies, but in reality it only brings added weight to the points made by the ones they consider a fool. Bring it on down now.
But see the real kicker here is that you have to use common sense and then make a "rule" as a means to measure success and profit on a product.
Also let's face it, if you base success and greatness on reviews, profit and consumer purchases you have a pretty solid foundation or concept of a basis of what is "success".
Now then based on this common formula in business 101 -- SWG is a failure and for those that do not see it, sorry this is just common knowledge.
Now then, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING SMART.. this is just the plain fucking truth of the matter.
Bottom line, if this game was getting people to sub hand over fist vs. losing them and being over a year with a product change that caused them to be known as the biggest MMO product train wreck ever then we would not be here or have anyone attempting to defend it.
Just use common sense and you have your answer -- it is almost that simple:
(Let's say) 350k subs -- and with changes instead of getting bigger and better YOU LOSE subs down to maybe 20k as I predict right now then YOU HAVE DONE SOMTHING WRONG!
You can hate WoW all you want, you can bash them be mad, but guess what ---?? Yep, they are smoking it up gaining people having YET AGAIN THIS WEEK to add 5 more servers in the states and 5 in Europe. Sorry, but when you have like freaking 300 servers world wide and 7.5 mill players that have subed, you are doing somthing right. No matter what we say, based on business alone they won.
Hard to argue success, no matter how much you don't like it. But it's easy to argue failure when it is visable and hitsyou in the face.
For any NGE that never saw what the game was like, they have no clue... you can't blame them because they just can't know the truth. SOE can spout anything to them and they can be "ignorant" of the past (word used as it is meant) By all means if they never saw 1000 people in Coronet, they cannot know how much fun it was etc..
So I guess in the end, you have to know the past and all the information somewhat to know enough about this, but if you just use some common sense the average JOE can figure this one out.
I agree with what you have to say, but it also applies to SWG before the NGE as well. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
Originally posted by Wildcat84 I don't hate this website.
I just hate the NGE.
I want my game back.
Me and 200,000 other people. Which is about 180,000 more subs than NGE has right now.
I don't want to take the NGE fans game away. Leave their servers alone. Just give us ours back.
But I disagree with you I dont want our game back the Pre-CU game was just a big broken piece of crap just like the NGE, thats called honesty for you.
No, its not "honesty", thats just called your opinion of which many thousands of people (including myself) would disagree with. Of course there were a few problems with Pre-CU (and name me a MMO that doesn't have its share) but IMO it was infinitely better than the crap that is available now.
The difference is that the pre-CU was a bigger game with more hope and bigger promise.
The core of the game was much better as somthing that could have been longlasting.
From the crafting to the combat, to the animations to the feel there is no doubt it felt better and looked better as well.
Sure it had problemns but in perspective to NOW Id take all of those problems X 2 instead of the NGE and the playerbase that is left.
SWG is done plain and simple.. it's not even a argument at all anymore.
You played the game and enjoyed it, this game worked for you; this game was something that you yourself got use to playing. But the majority of players did not get use to playing it; they did not like the game. The game today is still the same basic game that there was in the Pre-CU, the only real main changes are the level system, some professions dropped, some professions bundled together, and the combat changed, nonetheless these are still huge changes that basically can change the overall effect and feeling of game to something new. However the over all game itself, the content, the quests, and settings, and etc . are the same. The crafting needs major attention, but crafting needed major attention before the NGE. The simple fact is that this game was dying in the Pre-CU, and it is still dying in the NGE system. We do agree that overall the game is finished and it will eventually die. But I do not blame the NGE system for SWG dying, I blame other situations and problems for SWG dying, and that blame is not limited to SOE. Bring it on down now.
SO let me get this straight -- you just called this close to the old way???
Dude your fucked up, plain and simple.
I mean really, you just tried to tell me its almost the same but its not with a list as to why its not the same.
SO far this was the most insane thing you have posted as far as Im conceared.
I was in beta until the NGE -- PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO TELL ME THEY ARE ALIKE.
Try that with a NGEr not me... I will eat you alive with that.
I said there were changes in the game, the combat was changed, the professions reworked and some dropped, and a leveling system put in. Those were the major changes in this game, but the rest of the game stayed the same, the quests, the content, and setting all of it is still the same game. Bring it on down now.
Lol from sounds, animations and even more... Great so you just described 75% of the game has changed.
You forget that the CORE of the game was changed, from combat to the way you level, those count for more then (just some) of the game man.
They uprooted the entire core of the game.. that alone is a 50% change to the game... the rest is fodder and glitz even.
I mean really... that was thin, even for you.
The game today is still the same basic game that there was in the Pre-CU, the only real main changes are the level system, some professions dropped, some professions bundled together, and the combat changed, nonetheless these are still huge changes that basically can change the overall effect and feeling of game to something new. However the over all game itself, the content, the quests, and settings, and etc . are the same.
Well I am confused by what it is that we disagree with here really, I did say the game is the same but still completely different at the same time. I said the game has the same quests, the same setting the same look and etc but I also said that the game is different when you take into account the changes to the Professions, the combat, the level system and etc these changes make the game different it makes it something new, which means that the game play the way you play the game will be different. Maybe I did not explain it all fully and I apologize for that, English is not my native tongue and I miss things. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
Originally posted by Wildcat84 I don't hate this website.
I just hate the NGE.
I want my game back.
Me and 200,000 other people. Which is about 180,000 more subs than NGE has right now.
I don't want to take the NGE fans game away. Leave their servers alone. Just give us ours back.
But I disagree with you I dont want our game back the Pre-CU game was just a big broken piece of crap just like the NGE, thats called honesty for you.
No, its not "honesty", thats just called your opinion of which many thousands of people (including myself) would disagree with. Of course there were a few problems with Pre-CU (and name me a MMO that doesn't have its share) but IMO it was infinitely better than the crap that is available now.
The difference is that the pre-CU was a bigger game with more hope and bigger promise.
The core of the game was much better as somthing that could have been longlasting.
From the crafting to the combat, to the animations to the feel there is no doubt it felt better and looked better as well.
Sure it had problemns but in perspective to NOW Id take all of those problems X 2 instead of the NGE and the playerbase that is left.
SWG is done plain and simple.. it's not even a argument at all anymore.
You played the game and enjoyed it, this game worked for you; this game was something that you yourself got use to playing. But the majority of players did not get use to playing it; they did not like the game. The game today is still the same basic game that there was in the Pre-CU, the only real main changes are the level system, some professions dropped, some professions bundled together, and the combat changed, nonetheless these are still huge changes that basically can change the overall effect and feeling of game to something new. However the over all game itself, the content, the quests, and settings, and etc . are the same. The crafting needs major attention, but crafting needed major attention before the NGE. The simple fact is that this game was dying in the Pre-CU, and it is still dying in the NGE system. We do agree that overall the game is finished and it will eventually die. But I do not blame the NGE system for SWG dying, I blame other situations and problems for SWG dying, and that blame is not limited to SOE. Bring it on down now.
SO let me get this straight -- you just called this close to the old way???
Dude your fucked up, plain and simple.
I mean really, you just tried to tell me its almost the same but its not with a list as to why its not the same.
SO far this was the most insane thing you have posted as far as Im conceared.
I was in beta until the NGE -- PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO TELL ME THEY ARE ALIKE.
Try that with a NGEr not me... I will eat you alive with that.
I said there were changes in the game, the combat was changed, the professions reworked and some dropped, and a leveling system put in. Those were the major changes in this game, but the rest of the game stayed the same, the quests, the content, and setting all of it is still the same game. Bring it on down now.
Lol from sounds, animations and even more... Great so you just described 75% of the game has changed.
You forget that the CORE of the game was changed, from combat to the way you level, those count for more then (just some) of the game man.
They uprooted the entire core of the game.. that alone is a 50% change to the game... the rest is fodder and glitz even.
I mean really... that was thin, even for you.
The game today is still the same basic game that there was in the Pre-CU, the only real main changes are the level system, some professions dropped, some professions bundled together, and the combat changed, nonetheless these are still huge changes that basically can change the overall effect and feeling of game to something new. However the over all game itself, the content, the quests, and settings, and etc . are the same.
Well I am confused by what it is that we disagree with here really, I did say the game is the same but still completely different at the same time. I said the game has the same quests, the same setting the same look and etc but I also said that the game is different when you take into account the changes to the Professions, the combat, the level system and etc these changes make the game different it makes it something new, which means that the game play the way you play the game will be different. Maybe I did not explain it all fully and I apologize for that, English is not my native tongue and I miss things. Bring it on down now.
Well what you described is MAJOR -- you say it's pretty much the same game -- BUT THEN you just explained about 75% of it if not more is different, so it's NOT THE SAME GAME.
In fact I can safely say, it is no where near the same game at all.. In fact, it is made a 360 degree turn in most respects, from being harder to being easier.
Look I understand they had to cater to the casual player, I really do but while they did it, they cheapened the games overall quality.
Like I said, you made no sense by what you said...
It is NOT the same as it was pre-cu not by a long shot.. crap, everything from the crafting to the combat to the leveling (sorry but that is like 75% right there) Not to mention the way you travel to just moving things around your ENTIRE screen and the UI..
Sorry this version of the game is nothing like it once was, if that was the case then I would be in game and not here, thats for Godamn sure.
I was fine up until the NGE -- in fact, I like others was waiting for the said promised FRS back on... of course we all know how that ended up.
The changes show what results it aquired with the population. People are not that stupid not to know the difference, or even better yet think they are the same.
Trust me no vet thinks this is the same game or even really has anything to offer close to it.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by BlazinBlades Originally posted by Tagurit Originally posted by BlazinBlades Originally posted by Wildcat84 I don't hate this website.
I just hate the NGE.
I want my game back.
Me and 200,000 other people. Which is about 180,000 more subs than NGE has right now.
I don't want to take the NGE fans game away. Leave their servers alone. Just give us ours back.
But I disagree with you I dont want our game back the Pre-CU game was just a big broken piece of crap just like the NGE, thats called honesty for you.
No, its not "honesty", thats just called your opinion of which many thousands of people (including myself) would disagree with. Of course there were a few problems with Pre-CU (and name me a MMO that doesn't have its share) but IMO it was infinitely better than the crap that is available now.
Sure I agree thousands of players do in fact disagree with me, but there are also tens of thousands of other players basically the overwhelming majority of players that do in fact agree with me. You call what I said my opinion, it is not an opinion when it is based on fact, and the fact is this game in the Pre-CU was broken, the majority of players know it and say it and always have said it since this game was released over 3 years ago. SOE even admitted the game was broken, even former developers and designer of the game admit the game was broken and was not working well. This is called fact, not opinion, more importantly its called honesty being honest about this game and all that is attached to it. Bring it on down now.
I believe you are missing my point, which was never made to completely refute what you had said. I will disagree with you on 1 point. I do not believe that Pre-Cu was broken. There are no supposed "facts" to prove this either. The term "broken" would imply that the game was unplayable which it was most assuredly was not. I will be the first to admit there were some problems with it and many of them are STILL broken today 3 years later. The main point is that the version of the game currently out there is arguably far worse than the Pre-CU version.
Comments
But see the real kicker here is that you have to use common sense and then make a "rule" as a means to measure success and profit on a product.
Also let's face it, if you base success and greatness on reviews, profit and consumer purchases you have a pretty solid foundation or concept of a basis of what is "success".
Now then based on this common formula in business 101 -- SWG is a failure and for those that do not see it, sorry this is just common knowledge.
Now then, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING SMART.. this is just the plain fucking truth of the matter.
Bottom line, if this game was getting people to sub hand over fist vs. losing them and being over a year with a product change that caused them to be known as the biggest MMO product train wreck ever then we would not be here or have anyone attempting to defend it.
Just use common sense and you have your answer -- it is almost that simple:
(Let's say) 350k subs -- and with changes instead of getting bigger and better YOU LOSE subs down to maybe 20k as I predict right now then YOU HAVE DONE SOMTHING WRONG!
You can hate WoW all you want, you can bash them be mad, but guess what ---?? Yep, they are smoking it up gaining people having YET AGAIN THIS WEEK to add 5 more servers in the states and 5 in Europe. Sorry, but when you have like freaking 300 servers world wide and 7.5 mill players that have subed, you are doing somthing right. No matter what we say, based on business alone they won.
Hard to argue success, no matter how much you don't like it. But it's easy to argue failure when it is visable and hitsyou in the face.
For any NGE that never saw what the game was like, they have no clue... you can't blame them because they just can't know the truth. SOE can spout anything to them and they can be "ignorant" of the past (word used as it is meant) By all means if they never saw 1000 people in Coronet, they cannot know how much fun it was etc..
So I guess in the end, you have to know the past and all the information somewhat to know enough about this, but if you just use some common sense the average JOE can figure this one out.
I agree with what you have to say, but it also applies to SWG before the NGE as well. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
But I disagree with you I dont want our game back the Pre-CU game was just a big broken piece of crap just like the NGE, thats called honesty for you.
No, its not "honesty", thats just called your opinion of which many thousands of people (including myself) would disagree with. Of course there were a few problems with Pre-CU (and name me a MMO that doesn't have its share) but IMO it was infinitely better than the crap that is available now.
The difference is that the pre-CU was a bigger game with more hope and bigger promise.
The core of the game was much better as somthing that could have been longlasting.
From the crafting to the combat, to the animations to the feel there is no doubt it felt better and looked better as well.
Sure it had problemns but in perspective to NOW Id take all of those problems X 2 instead of the NGE and the playerbase that is left.
SWG is done plain and simple.. it's not even a argument at all anymore.
You played the game and enjoyed it, this game worked for you; this game was something that you yourself got use to playing. But the majority of players did not get use to playing it; they did not like the game. The game today is still the same basic game that there was in the Pre-CU, the only real main changes are the level system, some professions dropped, some professions bundled together, and the combat changed, nonetheless these are still huge changes that basically can change the overall effect and feeling of game to something new. However the over all game itself, the content, the quests, and settings, and etc . are the same. The crafting needs major attention, but crafting needed major attention before the NGE. The simple fact is that this game was dying in the Pre-CU, and it is still dying in the NGE system. We do agree that overall the game is finished and it will eventually die. But I do not blame the NGE system for SWG dying, I blame other situations and problems for SWG dying, and that blame is not limited to SOE. Bring it on down now.
SO let me get this straight -- you just called this close to the old way???
Dude your fucked up, plain and simple.
I mean really, you just tried to tell me its almost the same but its not with a list as to why its not the same.
SO far this was the most insane thing you have posted as far as Im conceared.
I was in beta until the NGE -- PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO TELL ME THEY ARE ALIKE.
Try that with a NGEr not me... I will eat you alive with that.
I said there were changes in the game, the combat was changed, the professions reworked and some dropped, and a leveling system put in. Those were the major changes in this game, but the rest of the game stayed the same, the quests, the content, and setting all of it is still the same game. Bring it on down now.
Lol from sounds, animations and even more... Great so you just described 75% of the game has changed.
You forget that the CORE of the game was changed, from combat to the way you level, those count for more then (just some) of the game man.
They uprooted the entire core of the game.. that alone is a 50% change to the game... the rest is fodder and glitz even.
I mean really... that was thin, even for you.
The game today is still the same basic game that there was in the Pre-CU, the only real main changes are the level system, some professions dropped, some professions bundled together, and the combat changed, nonetheless these are still huge changes that basically can change the overall effect and feeling of game to something new. However the over all game itself, the content, the quests, and settings, and etc . are the same.
Well I am confused by what it is that we disagree with here really, I did say the game is the same but still completely different at the same time. I said the game has the same quests, the same setting the same look and etc but I also said that the game is different when you take into account the changes to the Professions, the combat, the level system and etc these changes make the game different it makes it something new, which means that the game play the way you play the game will be different. Maybe I did not explain it all fully and I apologize for that, English is not my native tongue and I miss things. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
But I disagree with you I dont want our game back the Pre-CU game was just a big broken piece of crap just like the NGE, thats called honesty for you.
No, its not "honesty", thats just called your opinion of which many thousands of people (including myself) would disagree with. Of course there were a few problems with Pre-CU (and name me a MMO that doesn't have its share) but IMO it was infinitely better than the crap that is available now.
The difference is that the pre-CU was a bigger game with more hope and bigger promise.
The core of the game was much better as somthing that could have been longlasting.
From the crafting to the combat, to the animations to the feel there is no doubt it felt better and looked better as well.
Sure it had problemns but in perspective to NOW Id take all of those problems X 2 instead of the NGE and the playerbase that is left.
SWG is done plain and simple.. it's not even a argument at all anymore.
You played the game and enjoyed it, this game worked for you; this game was something that you yourself got use to playing. But the majority of players did not get use to playing it; they did not like the game. The game today is still the same basic game that there was in the Pre-CU, the only real main changes are the level system, some professions dropped, some professions bundled together, and the combat changed, nonetheless these are still huge changes that basically can change the overall effect and feeling of game to something new. However the over all game itself, the content, the quests, and settings, and etc . are the same. The crafting needs major attention, but crafting needed major attention before the NGE. The simple fact is that this game was dying in the Pre-CU, and it is still dying in the NGE system. We do agree that overall the game is finished and it will eventually die. But I do not blame the NGE system for SWG dying, I blame other situations and problems for SWG dying, and that blame is not limited to SOE. Bring it on down now.
SO let me get this straight -- you just called this close to the old way???
Dude your fucked up, plain and simple.
I mean really, you just tried to tell me its almost the same but its not with a list as to why its not the same.
SO far this was the most insane thing you have posted as far as Im conceared.
I was in beta until the NGE -- PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO TELL ME THEY ARE ALIKE.
Try that with a NGEr not me... I will eat you alive with that.
I said there were changes in the game, the combat was changed, the professions reworked and some dropped, and a leveling system put in. Those were the major changes in this game, but the rest of the game stayed the same, the quests, the content, and setting all of it is still the same game. Bring it on down now.
Lol from sounds, animations and even more... Great so you just described 75% of the game has changed.
You forget that the CORE of the game was changed, from combat to the way you level, those count for more then (just some) of the game man.
They uprooted the entire core of the game.. that alone is a 50% change to the game... the rest is fodder and glitz even.
I mean really... that was thin, even for you.
The game today is still the same basic game that there was in the Pre-CU, the only real main changes are the level system, some professions dropped, some professions bundled together, and the combat changed, nonetheless these are still huge changes that basically can change the overall effect and feeling of game to something new. However the over all game itself, the content, the quests, and settings, and etc . are the same.
Well I am confused by what it is that we disagree with here really, I did say the game is the same but still completely different at the same time. I said the game has the same quests, the same setting the same look and etc but I also said that the game is different when you take into account the changes to the Professions, the combat, the level system and etc these changes make the game different it makes it something new, which means that the game play the way you play the game will be different. Maybe I did not explain it all fully and I apologize for that, English is not my native tongue and I miss things. Bring it on down now.
Well what you described is MAJOR -- you say it's pretty much the same game -- BUT THEN you just explained about 75% of it if not more is different, so it's NOT THE SAME GAME.
In fact I can safely say, it is no where near the same game at all.. In fact, it is made a 360 degree turn in most respects, from being harder to being easier.
Look I understand they had to cater to the casual player, I really do but while they did it, they cheapened the games overall quality.
Like I said, you made no sense by what you said...
It is NOT the same as it was pre-cu not by a long shot.. crap, everything from the crafting to the combat to the leveling (sorry but that is like 75% right there) Not to mention the way you travel to just moving things around your ENTIRE screen and the UI..
Sorry this version of the game is nothing like it once was, if that was the case then I would be in game and not here, thats for Godamn sure.
I was fine up until the NGE -- in fact, I like others was waiting for the said promised FRS back on... of course we all know how that ended up.
The changes show what results it aquired with the population. People are not that stupid not to know the difference, or even better yet think they are the same.
Trust me no vet thinks this is the same game or even really has anything to offer close to it.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Well I see the confusion but I still did not say that the game today is the exact same game as before nonetheless. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
But I disagree with you I dont want our game back the Pre-CU game was just a big broken piece of crap just like the NGE, thats called honesty for you.
No, its not "honesty", thats just called your opinion of which many thousands of people (including myself) would disagree with. Of course there were a few problems with Pre-CU (and name me a MMO that doesn't have its share) but IMO it was infinitely better than the crap that is available now.
Sure I agree thousands of players do in fact disagree with me, but there are also tens of thousands of other players basically the overwhelming majority of players that do in fact agree with me. You call what I said my opinion, it is not an opinion when it is based on fact, and the fact is this game in the Pre-CU was broken, the majority of players know it and say it and always have said it since this game was released over 3 years ago. SOE even admitted the game was broken, even former developers and designer of the game admit the game was broken and was not working well. This is called fact, not opinion, more importantly its called honesty being honest about this game and all that is attached to it. Bring it on down now.
I believe you are missing my point, which was never made to completely refute what you had said. I will disagree with you on 1 point. I do not believe that Pre-Cu was broken. There are no supposed "facts" to prove this either. The term "broken" would imply that the game was unplayable which it was most assuredly was not. I will be the first to admit there were some problems with it and many of them are STILL broken today 3 years later. The main point is that the version of the game currently out there is arguably far worse than the Pre-CU version.
Would someone kindly pm me the link to the new Refuge?