Well if you want permadeath, maybe in keeping with realism characters could randomly come down with cancer or other diseases and die through no fault of the players actions at all. That would be even more real. Doesn't sound fun though.
Well if you want permadeath, maybe in keeping with realism characters could randomly come down with cancer or other diseases and die through no fault of the players actions at all. That would be even more real. Doesn't sound fun though.
Its not about realism. I mean, the more realistic the game is, the better, especially if it`s RPG. Mmorpg are rpg to some point. However, fans of permadeath want it not because of realism, but additional level of adrenaline. Its more fun, more excitement. Some people will never understand it, but believe me its great feeling when there is some risk. Thats why some people jump bungee or parachute or gamble
In addition, Permadeath game is a challenge and those with big genitals like challenges and competition. It is in male nature to compete, to prove they are better than others. And in the game with no danger there is no way to show you are uber. You can just show that you spent more time grinding.
But let`s top this discussion. Pros and cons of permadeath were already discussed many times. I just wanted to inform that for those who want permadeath, that our dream came true
Playing: Rohan Played (from best to worst): Shadowbane, Guild Wars, Shayia, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Runes of Magic, Rappelz, Archlord, Knight online, King of Kings, Kal online, Last chaos
Well if you want permadeath, maybe in keeping with realism characters could randomly come down with cancer or other diseases and die through no fault of the players actions at all. That would be even more real. Doesn't sound fun though.
Its not about realism. I mean, the more realistic the game is, the better, especially if it`s RPG. Mmorpg are rpg to some point. However, fans of permadeath want it not because of realism, but additional level of adrenaline. Its more fun, more excitement. Some people will never understand it, but believe me its great feeling when there is some risk. Thats why some people jump bungee or parachute or gamble
In addition, Permadeath game is a challenge and those with big genitals like challenges and competition. It is in male nature to compete, to prove they are better than others. And in the game with no danger there is no way to show you are uber. You can just show that you spent more time grinding.
But let`s top this discussion. Pros and cons of permadeath were already discussed many times. I just wanted to inform that for those who want permadeath, that our dream came true
I think Permadeath is a good idea, perhaps just laid out cold for noobs maybe in the beginning although waking up completely naked would be good as a penalty for your foolishness. There has to be a risk element in mmorpg's to keep the excitement going. This would also keep a balance in the game since there too much emphasis on leveling up over a period of time to become an unstoppable super hero. Let's get back to old fashion role play where you had to take care of your character and stupidity was punished. Rescue was possible in a team, hence the social aspect of the game.
Possibly have a limited life span of the character where old age will decrease your skills or at least stamina. This stops players coming and going on a casual basis and removal of perpetual superheroes. Maybe in the game you need to find a partner and breed your new characters to leave your stuff to, possible train up in your talented skills and build a large family tree or business eventually. This could replace the Guild concept where leaders or founders don't participate in the game anymore because they're bored being an immortal superhero.
Think it's worth considering, because the perpetual grinding away to get to lvl one hundred and silly is getting boring and most players in some games are doing this whilst AFK. When this is happening, you may ask what is the point in participating?
Permadeath is dumb as most games stand right now. You can die way to easy and I really hated having to get 5 or 6 friends together just to get my body back. SIngle biggest reason I quit EQ 1 all those years ago. Too much interaction between players isn't all that and a bag of chips. No offense, but most of you aren't nice people and I don't care to talk to most of you! ( no worries I think it' more of an age difference thing than anyone really not liking anyone else.)
Permadeath games? Have fun but they certainly won't get any of my money.
Permadeath is dumb as most games stand right now. You can die way to easy and I really hated having to get 5 or 6 friends together just to get my body back. SIngle biggest reason I quit EQ 1 all those years ago. Too much interaction between players isn't all that and a bag of chips. No offense, but most of you aren't nice people and I don't care to talk to most of you! ( no worries I think it' more of an age difference thing than anyone really not liking anyone else.)
Permadeath games? Have fun but they certainly won't get any of my money.
You're right that there is an element of players that I wouldn't want to converse or deal with, but I've always found them to be a minority and quickly isolated by the rest of the playing community.
Too easy a death is usually a result of super stupid mega monsters and again those superhero immortal players. It is a technical point about dieing too easily and it is really up to the developer to find the right balance. If they do not they obviously loose good customer s like your good self.
Permadeath works in roleplay heavy, character driven MUDs where combat is not tied to character progression. Ironically, these games also have FFA PvP. However, the communities are usually tightly controlled and limited.
The resaon I don't like permadeath is because it's a boring design choice. There are so many other interesting ways to handle the expiration mechanic than a character purge.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
For one, I would never play an online game with permadeath, because no matter how skilled you are, the lag monster can always beat you.
Two, I would never play a game with permadeath, period. Why not? I am the hero. How good would Lord of the Rings have been if Frodo died halfway to Mordor? Or Indiana Jones bites it early on in the film? Or James Bond gets killed against a wave of nobody guards? These are the heroes of the story! This is what I am.
OK, I'm going to go out on a limb, here, and say that I have never played an MMO that had a death penalty mild enough for me. Even the five-minute corpse run or ten-minute rez sickness of Wow bugs the crap out of me. Why? Because suddenly, for a while, I cannot play! I quit City of Heroes after 3 years because my main had worked up a lot of exp debt. I quit D2 when my level 88.9 necro dropped to 88.0 after a few unlucky deaths. Dying sucks! My ideal death-penalty in any game would be that you come back to life, fully healed, in the nearest safe spot. This isn't really as carebearish as it sounds. In a game like Half-life, if I die, I just reload the game to the last previous save, which might have been 5 seconds ago game-time. Since MMOs don't have such save points, my idea would be the next best thing for me.
BTW, D2 doesn't really count towards the permadeath argument cause you could get to max level very fast with a few powerlevelling friends.
Well if you want permadeath, maybe in keeping with realism characters could randomly come down with cancer or other diseases and die through no fault of the players actions at all. That would be even more real. Doesn't sound fun though.
Its not about realism. I mean, the more realistic the game is, the better, especially if it`s RPG. Mmorpg are rpg to some point. However, fans of permadeath want it not because of realism, but additional level of adrenaline. Its more fun, more excitement. Some people will never understand it, but believe me its great feeling when there is some risk. Thats why some people jump bungee or parachute or gamble
In addition, Permadeath game is a challenge and those with big genitals like challenges and competition. It is in male nature to compete, to prove they are better than others. And in the game with no danger there is no way to show you are uber. You can just show that you spent more time grinding.
But let`s top this discussion. Pros and cons of permadeath were already discussed many times. I just wanted to inform that for those who want permadeath, that our dream came true
I wouldn't be opposed to a compromise. How about a permadeath toggle. That way you could die if you want too and I can mourn your corpse.
Also, if you die can we have a funeral...just a thought. I think I would be good at eulogizing the fallen.
I think permadeath is a VERY doable option.. But it couldnt be as easy as it is hard to actually PROGRESS.. So sure, if you were able to hit max level in little or not time at all (say maybe a week at the max for casual gamers), then death should be easy.. But for it to work in games like we see today where there is a at least a minimal of a months time for max level to be achieved, I think permadeath should only occur when death has happened more than a few times in a row without some kind of "rest" period...
They could have some sort of Soul health bar that stays at 100% and when you die, all damage you take below 0 hp, will be taken off of your soul bar.. Soul health can be 100 but of course MUST rise back to 100 before one can start to gain health back.. This can also make people think twice about things before just CHARGIN right back into the fray and recklessly dying again before becoming ready again..
Perma death is a possibility.. It wiould just have to be one of those things that only "idiots" can manage to pull off... Shouldnt be so easy a caveman could do it..
An MMO with permadeath would have to be based on a completely different paradigm.
1. Death would have to be an exceedingly rare occurrence, and PERMANENT death even more rare. In fact, it would have to be conceivable that the average player could play for a long time, and never come close to permanently dying. There should also be specific content based on rescuing players on the verge of permadeath, further reducing the chance that defeat would turn into death.
2. Individual character development would have to be much less time-consuming, and the difference between a new character and a long-lived character would have to be much less significant.
3. The main form of "progression" or "achievement" in the game would have to come in a different form than individual development. In other words, the importance of the individual character would have to take second fiddle to other goals. Examples would include advancement of a guild, building a city, building an ARMY, overall factional PVP domination, etc.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
If PD is so rare, why even have PD in the game? If the goal is to not die, delete character, game over; and to make PD OK you make that death very difficult, why not just remove it from the game. Then PD will never happen, so your goal of PD being rare is met.
I may be only kind of playing devils advocate, but I think if you have PD, it should be common. If it is rare, you will end up with many veteran players at level cap or skill cap or whatever, and it will not be that different from games without PD. Again, what's the point of trying to put in PD in this sort of system?
Your points 2 and 3 are good though. Advancement would be guild-wide, city-wide, family-wide, socially, fame, etc; rather than personal character achievement. Imagine a dungeon where when you die, you die. There will be locked doors in the dungeon. You will find keys on drops of mobs every so often allowing you to unlock a door. Now, when you die, you are gone, and have to start the dungeon over again. But, the doors you unlocked remain unlocked. You can run past more mobs to try and progress a little further into the dungeon. When you finally do complete the dungeon, you get enough reward in experience/loot that your character is probably stronger than he was when he found the dungeon. Not to mention, if he dies again, his next of kin (the new character made after death) inherits that good loot. There would not be character restrictions on loot, so you wouldn't have to level again to wear it.
But it would suck to go to the next dungeon and then die again going back to the begining, so I don't know. Maybe it would be better to have experience save at certain points, like when you complete a dungeon your experience saves. Every time you die, you are reset to the last save. I guess this is not that different than other games have it, like EvE and AO have cloning.
What PD should do and be for, is make combat and the game more exciting, and prevent more experience players from having characters which are ALWAYS better than everyone else's, making the games economy less inflated; without making people too upset to keep them from playing. It's a hard line to walk. Too rare PD doesn't really solve any of those problems that PD is usually trying to solve.
If PD is so rare, why even have PD in the game? If the goal is to not die, delete character, game over; and to make PD OK you make that death very difficult, why not just remove it from the game. Then PD will never happen, so your goal of PD being rare is met. I may be only kind of playing devils advocate, but I think if you have PD, it should be common. If it is rare, you will end up with many veteran players at level cap or skill cap or whatever, and it will not be that different from games without PD. Again, what's the point of trying to put in PD in this sort of system? Your points 2 and 3 are good though. Advancement would be guild-wide, city-wide, family-wide, socially, fame, etc; rather than personal character achievement. Imagine a dungeon where when you die, you die. There will be locked doors in the dungeon. You will find keys on drops of mobs every so often allowing you to unlock a door. Now, when you die, you are gone, and have to start the dungeon over again. But, the doors you unlocked remain unlocked. You can run past more mobs to try and progress a little further into the dungeon. When you finally do complete the dungeon, you get enough reward in experience/loot that your character is probably stronger than he was when he found the dungeon. Not to mention, if he dies again, his next of kin (the new character made after death) inherits that good loot. There would not be character restrictions on loot, so you wouldn't have to level again to wear it. But it would suck to go to the next dungeon and then die again going back to the begining, so I don't know. Maybe it would be better to have experience save at certain points, like when you complete a dungeon your experience saves. Every time you die, you are reset to the last save. I guess this is not that different than other games have it, like EvE and AO have cloning. What PD should do and be for, is make combat and the game more exciting, and prevent more experience players from having characters which are ALWAYS better than everyone else's, making the games economy less inflated; without making people too upset to keep them from playing. It's a hard line to walk. Too rare PD doesn't really solve any of those problems that PD is usually trying to solve.
In order for it to wash, it has to be rare. Death, by definition, is rare. It only happens to you once. I can see no reason why making it really rare would be a problem. It adds an element of fear, without substantially altering the gameplay experience.
Right now, almost all aspects of MMOs are too predictable. You know exactly how a fight will go, no surprises. Everybody reads guides to high end raid content, because the difficulty of raid content is typically such that the major encounters can only be done one way.
In my opinion (yes I said "opinion"), MMOs need more uncertainty, and the chance, however small, of "catastrophe". If a game includes Permadeath, it should be the result of freak chance, or gross negligence on the part of the player, not a common occurrence.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Permanent death should only occur to elite characters.
There haven't been any companies willing to incorporate permanent death. Personally, I'd like to see a game that allows all players to play in one community.
For example(stats are just made up) have different character types.
Leader
300% XP Gain
Permanent Death if Killed by Another Leader, All Items lost
%XP Loss if killed by a Soldier, Worn items lost.
No penalty for death by adventurer
Creates Allegiances (Faction)
Soldier
150% XP Gain
%XP Loss if killed by Leader or Soldier, worn items lost.
No penalty for death by adventurer
Creates Battalion (Faction Battle Group)
Can Have Battalion Join Allegiance
Adventurer
100% XP Gain
No penalty on death
Can create adventurer guilds.
Personally, I'd really like to see someone attempt something similar to above. The majority of players would be Soldier/Adventurer but the select few who are hardcore would want to have Leaders to run the show but, they also risk death.
Permanent death should only occur to elite characters. There haven't been any companies willing to incorporate permanent death. Personally, I'd like to see a game that allows all players to play in one community. For example(stats are just made up) have different character types. Leader
300% XP Gain Permanent Death if Killed by Another Leader, All Items lost %XP Loss if killed by a Soldier, Worn items lost. No penalty for death by adventurer Creates Allegiances (Faction)
Soldier
150% XP Gain %XP Loss if killed by Leader or Soldier, worn items lost. No penalty for death by adventurer Creates Battalion (Faction Battle Group) Can Have Battalion Join Allegiance
Adventurer
100% XP Gain No penalty on death Can create adventurer guilds.
Personally, I'd really like to see someone attempt something similar to above. The majority of players would be Soldier/Adventurer but the select few who are hardcore would want to have Leaders to run the show but, they also risk death.
Nice ideas. I'd throw in a power multiplier/advantage for each level of PD.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Comments
Well if you want permadeath, maybe in keeping with realism characters could randomly come down with cancer or other diseases and die through no fault of the players actions at all. That would be even more real. Doesn't sound fun though.
In addition, Permadeath game is a challenge and those with big genitals like challenges and competition. It is in male nature to compete, to prove they are better than others. And in the game with no danger there is no way to show you are uber. You can just show that you spent more time grinding.
But let`s top this discussion. Pros and cons of permadeath were already discussed many times. I just wanted to inform that for those who want permadeath, that our dream came true
Playing: Rohan
Played (from best to worst): Shadowbane, Guild Wars, Shayia, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Runes of Magic, Rappelz, Archlord, Knight online, King of Kings, Kal online, Last chaos
Its not about realism. I mean, the more realistic the game is, the better, especially if it`s RPG. Mmorpg are rpg to some point. However, fans of permadeath want it not because of realism, but additional level of adrenaline. Its more fun, more excitement. Some people will never understand it, but believe me its great feeling when there is some risk. Thats why some people jump bungee or parachute or gambleIn addition, Permadeath game is a challenge and those with big genitals like challenges and competition. It is in male nature to compete, to prove they are better than others. And in the game with no danger there is no way to show you are uber. You can just show that you spent more time grinding.
But let`s top this discussion. Pros and cons of permadeath were already discussed many times. I just wanted to inform that for those who want permadeath, that our dream came true
I think Permadeath is a good idea, perhaps just laid out cold for noobs maybe in the beginning although waking up completely naked would be good as a penalty for your foolishness. There has to be a risk element in mmorpg's to keep the excitement going. This would also keep a balance in the game since there too much emphasis on leveling up over a period of time to become an unstoppable super hero. Let's get back to old fashion role play where you had to take care of your character and stupidity was punished. Rescue was possible in a team, hence the social aspect of the game.
Possibly have a limited life span of the character where old age will decrease your skills or at least stamina. This stops players coming and going on a casual basis and removal of perpetual superheroes. Maybe in the game you need to find a partner and breed your new characters to leave your stuff to, possible train up in your talented skills and build a large family tree or business eventually. This could replace the Guild concept where leaders or founders don't participate in the game anymore because they're bored being an immortal superhero.
Think it's worth considering, because the perpetual grinding away to get to lvl one hundred and silly is getting boring and most players in some games are doing this whilst AFK. When this is happening, you may ask what is the point in participating?
Permadeath is dumb as most games stand right now. You can die way to easy and I really hated having to get 5 or 6 friends together just to get my body back. SIngle biggest reason I quit EQ 1 all those years ago. Too much interaction between players isn't all that and a bag of chips. No offense, but most of you aren't nice people and I don't care to talk to most of you!
( no worries I think it' more of an age difference thing than anyone really not liking anyone else.)
Permadeath games? Have fun but they certainly won't get any of my money.
You're right that there is an element of players that I wouldn't want to converse or deal with, but I've always found them to be a minority and quickly isolated by the rest of the playing community.
Too easy a death is usually a result of super stupid mega monsters and again those superhero immortal players. It is a technical point about dieing too easily and it is really up to the developer to find the right balance. If they do not they obviously loose good customer s like your good self.
Permadeath works in roleplay heavy, character driven MUDs where combat is not tied to character progression. Ironically, these games also have FFA PvP. However, the communities are usually tightly controlled and limited.
The resaon I don't like permadeath is because it's a boring design choice. There are so many other interesting ways to handle the expiration mechanic than a character purge.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
For one, I would never play an online game with permadeath, because no matter how skilled you are, the lag monster can always beat you.
Two, I would never play a game with permadeath, period. Why not? I am the hero. How good would Lord of the Rings have been if Frodo died halfway to Mordor? Or Indiana Jones bites it early on in the film? Or James Bond gets killed against a wave of nobody guards? These are the heroes of the story! This is what I am.
OK, I'm going to go out on a limb, here, and say that I have never played an MMO that had a death penalty mild enough for me. Even the five-minute corpse run or ten-minute rez sickness of Wow bugs the crap out of me. Why? Because suddenly, for a while, I cannot play! I quit City of Heroes after 3 years because my main had worked up a lot of exp debt. I quit D2 when my level 88.9 necro dropped to 88.0 after a few unlucky deaths. Dying sucks! My ideal death-penalty in any game would be that you come back to life, fully healed, in the nearest safe spot. This isn't really as carebearish as it sounds. In a game like Half-life, if I die, I just reload the game to the last previous save, which might have been 5 seconds ago game-time. Since MMOs don't have such save points, my idea would be the next best thing for me.
BTW, D2 doesn't really count towards the permadeath argument cause you could get to max level very fast with a few powerlevelling friends.
In addition, Permadeath game is a challenge and those with big genitals like challenges and competition. It is in male nature to compete, to prove they are better than others. And in the game with no danger there is no way to show you are uber. You can just show that you spent more time grinding.
But let`s top this discussion. Pros and cons of permadeath were already discussed many times. I just wanted to inform that for those who want permadeath, that our dream came true
I wouldn't be opposed to a compromise. How about a permadeath toggle. That way you could die if you want too and I can mourn your corpse.
Also, if you die can we have a funeral...just a thought. I think I would be good at eulogizing the fallen.
I think permadeath is a VERY doable option.. But it couldnt be as easy as it is hard to actually PROGRESS.. So sure, if you were able to hit max level in little or not time at all (say maybe a week at the max for casual gamers), then death should be easy.. But for it to work in games like we see today where there is a at least a minimal of a months time for max level to be achieved, I think permadeath should only occur when death has happened more than a few times in a row without some kind of "rest" period...
They could have some sort of Soul health bar that stays at 100% and when you die, all damage you take below 0 hp, will be taken off of your soul bar.. Soul health can be 100 but of course MUST rise back to 100 before one can start to gain health back.. This can also make people think twice about things before just CHARGIN right back into the fray and recklessly dying again before becoming ready again..
Perma death is a possibility.. It wiould just have to be one of those things that only "idiots" can manage to pull off... Shouldnt be so easy a caveman could do it..
An MMO with permadeath would have to be based on a completely different paradigm.
1. Death would have to be an exceedingly rare occurrence, and PERMANENT death even more rare. In fact, it would have to be conceivable that the average player could play for a long time, and never come close to permanently dying. There should also be specific content based on rescuing players on the verge of permadeath, further reducing the chance that defeat would turn into death.
2. Individual character development would have to be much less time-consuming, and the difference between a new character and a long-lived character would have to be much less significant.
3. The main form of "progression" or "achievement" in the game would have to come in a different form than individual development. In other words, the importance of the individual character would have to take second fiddle to other goals. Examples would include advancement of a guild, building a city, building an ARMY, overall factional PVP domination, etc.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
If PD is so rare, why even have PD in the game? If the goal is to not die, delete character, game over; and to make PD OK you make that death very difficult, why not just remove it from the game. Then PD will never happen, so your goal of PD being rare is met.
I may be only kind of playing devils advocate, but I think if you have PD, it should be common. If it is rare, you will end up with many veteran players at level cap or skill cap or whatever, and it will not be that different from games without PD. Again, what's the point of trying to put in PD in this sort of system?
Your points 2 and 3 are good though. Advancement would be guild-wide, city-wide, family-wide, socially, fame, etc; rather than personal character achievement. Imagine a dungeon where when you die, you die. There will be locked doors in the dungeon. You will find keys on drops of mobs every so often allowing you to unlock a door. Now, when you die, you are gone, and have to start the dungeon over again. But, the doors you unlocked remain unlocked. You can run past more mobs to try and progress a little further into the dungeon. When you finally do complete the dungeon, you get enough reward in experience/loot that your character is probably stronger than he was when he found the dungeon. Not to mention, if he dies again, his next of kin (the new character made after death) inherits that good loot. There would not be character restrictions on loot, so you wouldn't have to level again to wear it.
But it would suck to go to the next dungeon and then die again going back to the begining, so I don't know. Maybe it would be better to have experience save at certain points, like when you complete a dungeon your experience saves. Every time you die, you are reset to the last save. I guess this is not that different than other games have it, like EvE and AO have cloning.
What PD should do and be for, is make combat and the game more exciting, and prevent more experience players from having characters which are ALWAYS better than everyone else's, making the games economy less inflated; without making people too upset to keep them from playing. It's a hard line to walk. Too rare PD doesn't really solve any of those problems that PD is usually trying to solve.
In order for it to wash, it has to be rare. Death, by definition, is rare. It only happens to you once. I can see no reason why making it really rare would be a problem. It adds an element of fear, without substantially altering the gameplay experience.
Right now, almost all aspects of MMOs are too predictable. You know exactly how a fight will go, no surprises. Everybody reads guides to high end raid content, because the difficulty of raid content is typically such that the major encounters can only be done one way.
In my opinion (yes I said "opinion"), MMOs need more uncertainty, and the chance, however small, of "catastrophe". If a game includes Permadeath, it should be the result of freak chance, or gross negligence on the part of the player, not a common occurrence.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Permanent death should only occur to elite characters.
There haven't been any companies willing to incorporate permanent death. Personally, I'd like to see a game that allows all players to play in one community.
For example(stats are just made up) have different character types.
Leader
Soldier
Adventurer
Personally, I'd really like to see someone attempt something similar to above. The majority of players would be Soldier/Adventurer but the select few who are hardcore would want to have Leaders to run the show but, they also risk death.
Nice ideas. I'd throw in a power multiplier/advantage for each level of PD.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good