Trying it again and loving it.

neuronomad

Now that I have officially kicked the WoW habit, and while I love EQ2's game play, classes, etc.  I still don't care for the graphics and the color scheme gets on my nerves.

I have started playing Archlord some again, since it is f2p now, but I really don't want that to become my default MMO until one of the next bigdogs like V:SoH or AoC come out.   So I decided to get out my DDO:Stormreach DVD the other night and give it another shot.   In the past when I tried it out I was too caught up in other MMOs to give it a fair shake. 

So far this time around I am loving it.   I am still a very, very newb but there is plenty of content and easy to solo.  The server I joined didn't appear to have any shortage of players.  

I think what I failed to realize the first time around was how neat the ideal of XP from Quest only was.

Sevenwind

I am liking the new social panel a lot! Makes finding groups 100x easier, least for me.

neuronomad

---

Originally posted by Sevenwind
I am liking the new social panel a lot! Makes finding groups 100x easier, least for me.

---

I have just been soloing so far as I am still, but I have looked at the panel and it does indeed look promising.

Honestly now that I am giving it my full attention the game has a lot to offer. 

One thing that can't be said about the quest are that they are not the standard MMO quest.  At least so far the quest all seem to have a lot of style and substance.   I am usually one of those that just click the quest, don't read anything except what I need to do and so far.  But the quest system in DDO beckons you to actually live the quest, not just mindlessly go out kill a few mobs and pick up the quest items.

I like the XP bonuses you get like the Mayhem bonuses for destorying breakables and so far.

CaptainRPG

This is a link to X-Play's review of Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows. Replace
Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows with Dungeons and Dragons Online and you pretty
much have an idea of how the gameplay is. No, I'm not kidding either.
Once you've done one dungeon, you done them all. Say what you want
about X-Play, but still the review fits DDO perfectly.

neuronomad

---

Originally posted by CaptainRPG


This is a link to X-Play's review of Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows. Replace Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows with Dungeons and Dragons Online and you pretty much have an idea of how the gameplay is. No, I'm not kidding either. Once you've done one dungeon, you done them all. Say what you want about X-Play, but still the review fits DDO perfectly.

---

Funny because I have done multiple dungeons so far and each of them have a different feel to them.  What level did you get to in DDO? 

CaptainRPG

---

Originally posted by neuronomad
Originally posted by CaptainRPG



This is a link to X-Play's review of Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows. Replace
Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows with Dungeons and Dragons Online and you pretty
much have an idea of how the gameplay is. No, I'm not kidding either.
Once you've done one dungeon, you done them all. Say what you want
about X-Play, but still the review fits DDO perfectly.

Funny because I have done multiple dungeons so far and each of them
have a different feel to them.  What level did you get to in
DDO? 

---

Level 12, I fought the titan,
red dragon, ogres, you name it. I used +3 equipment and never had to
update. The dungeons no matter what they had different about them all
the same objective. Kill everything that move. The "gameplay" was
repetition with no end in sight.

"All you do is go from point
A to point hitting things along the way. There might be traps and a big
boss battle every now then to distract you, but really that's like
hitting yourself in the nuts to take your mind off the pain in your
ass." - Adam

THERE NOTHING OUTSIDE OF DUNGEONS CRAWLING. The
only thing you can do "OUTSIDE" of dungeon crawling is lounging around
the taverns for a party. You do this nearly every time you finish one
dungeon.

1) Go to the Tavern
2) Wait for guild members or PUG to show up to enlist your help.
3) Go to dungeon, kill monsters and loot every chest.
4) Rinse, wash, and repeat.

neuronomad

---

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
Originally posted by neuronomad
Originally posted by CaptainRPG


This is a link to X-Play's review of Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows. Replace Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows with Dungeons and Dragons Online and you pretty much have an idea of how the gameplay is. No, I'm not kidding either. Once you've done one dungeon, you done them all. Say what you want about X-Play, but still the review fits DDO perfectly.

Funny because I have done multiple dungeons so far and each of them have a different feel to them.  What level did you get to in DDO? 

---

Level 12, I fought the titan, red dragon, ogres, you name it. I used +3 equipment and never had to update. The dungeons no matter what they had different about them all the same objective. Kill everything that move. The "gameplay" was repetition with no end in sight.

"All you do is go from point A to point hitting things along the way. There might be traps and a big boss battle every now then to distract you, but really that's like hitting yourself in the nuts to take your mind off the pain in your ass." - Adam

THERE NOTHING OUTSIDE OF DUNGEONS CRAWLING. The only thing you can do "OUTSIDE" of dungeon crawling is lounging around the taverns for a party. You do this nearly every time you finish one dungeon.

1) Go to the Tavern
2) Wait for guild members or PUG to show up to enlist your help.
3) Go to dungeon, kill monsters and loot every chest.
4) Rinse, wash, and repeat.

---

So pretty much you have desribed what one does in any given MMO.   Except in DDO the quest are a lot more indepth than "Hey go kill me get me 10 rat tails, of course you are going to have to kill thirty of them to get 10 tails" that you find in most other MMOGs. 

I am not saying that DDO is the ultimate game, or even that it is my favorite game.  I am just saying that you are knocking it based on the very thing that makes up 99.9% of the general MMO experience.
 
WoW:
1) Go to SW, TB, UC, IF, ORG, Darn.
2) Wait for Guild Members of Pug
3) Go to an instance, kill monsters and loot every chest
4) Rinse and repeat.

EQ2:
1) Go to Qeynos or Freeport.
2) Wait for Guild Members of Pug

3) Go to an instance, kill monsters and loot every chest

4) Rinse and repeat.

etc, etc, etc.   This is typical

But at least DDO at least makes a great attempt to get away from the Fed-Ex and stupid kill, kill, kill until you loot X items.
 

CaptainRPG

---

Originally posted by neuronomad
O

So pretty much you have desribed what one does in any given MMO.   

---

Nope, because WoW, GW and EQ2 don't revolve around dungeon crawling.
All give the ability to make money and use money without having to
dungeon crawl. All three of them have mountains of soloability in their
gameplay. All three of them give you the ability to quest inside and
outside a dungeon. The "gameplay" of WoW and EQ2 isn't straightforward
and give you the ability to explore outside dungeon crawling. You don't
have to follow the quests in any particular order.

DDO force
you to play a straightforward game and has very few solo options. Tell
me what kind of economy does DDO have? Does it make you spend money or
make your money useful? Can you use skill talents such as crafting to
economically support yourself? Can you explore the outside world?


There is no depth in DDO by the way. Depth is defined by how involved
your character is to that world. Filling a spot in your party is not
depth, but having an impact on your economy using skill talents, being
able to grow and become your own force in any MMORPG is depth. There
isn't anything your character can contribute in DDO, unlike other games.


This is why DDO is like Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows. It doesn't matter what
character you pick, you aren't making a impact on the world no more
than the next person. Moreover, you're only repeatedly doing the same
over and over again. Despite the boss battles and traps thrown in, it's
only trying to cover up the fact, you'll be repeating this in every
dungeon. The game is straightforward hack and slash with no objective.

neuronomad

---

Originally posted by CaptainRPG
Originally posted by neuronomad
O

So pretty much you have desribed what one does in any given MMO.   

---

Nope, because WoW, GW and EQ2 don't revolve around dungeon crawling. All give the ability to make money and use money without having to dungeon crawl. All three of them have mountains of soloability in their gameplay. All three of them give you the ability to quest inside and outside a dungeon. The "gameplay" of WoW and EQ2 isn't straightforward and give you the ability to explore outside dungeon crawling. You don't have to follow the quests in any particular order.

DDO force you to play a straightforward game and has very few solo options. Tell me what kind of economy does DDO have? Does it make you spend money or make your money useful? Can you use skill talents such as crafting to economically support yourself? Can you explore the outside world?

There is no depth in DDO by the way. Depth is defined by how involved your character is to that world. Filling a spot in your party is not depth, but having an impact on your economy using skill talents, being able to grow and become your own force in any MMORPG is depth. There isn't anything your character can contribute in DDO, unlike other games.

This is why DDO is like Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows. It doesn't matter what character you pick, you make no impact to the world then the next person. Moreover, you're only repeatedly doing the same over and over again. Despite the boss battles and traps thrown in, it's only trying to cover up the fact, you'll be repeating this in every dungeon. The game is straightforward hack and slash with no objective.

---

So now a game has to have user crafting to be an MMO.    In all of the games that I have played crafting is always the most boring part of the game (at least to me).   Oh well we can agree to disagree, but I doubt we could even agree on that.

severius

Personally what killed DDO for me was just the poor usage of the license.   I honestly would have expected that the grand daddy of the RPG genre would have gone to some extent to turn the whole mmorpg genre on its ear.  And they tried, but imo failed miserably.  The idea of getting xp for completing quests and doing dungeon runs is a a good one until a person has to sit there and repeat the same dungeons over and over again.  So instead of grinding on mindless mobs you are grinding mindless quests.



Every mmo tries to add some character to their quests.  As the OP stated, he never read the quests before beyond finding what had to be done.  Even the mission terminals in SWG attempted to give some flavor and a story behind the quests it churned out if someone actually read them.  I for one always read the quests.  I cant count on my fellow players to help bring me into the game world so I do it myself, I take quests and try to follow the story. 



I am happy for you that you are finding ddo to be an enjoyable experience.  For myself though (being someone that came in from the basic d&d set back in 1979 or so, through the 2nd ed. AD&D game) I found every part of the game annoying.  From the Eberron setting to the 3rd edition rules and everything in between just struck a nerve with me.  However with that said I am glad that a game that tries something a little different attracts people because that may be enough to get other devs and publishers to try new things.

CaptainRPG

---

Originally posted by neuronomad
Originally posted by CaptainRPG
Originally posted by neuronomad
O

So pretty much you have desribed what one does in any given MMO.   

---

Nope, because WoW, GW and EQ2 don't revolve around dungeon crawling.
All give the ability to make money and use money without having to
dungeon crawl. All three of them have mountains of soloability in their
gameplay. All three of them give you the ability to quest inside and
outside a dungeon. The "gameplay" of WoW and EQ2 isn't straightforward
and give you the ability to explore outside dungeon crawling. You don't
have to follow the quests in any particular order.

DDO force
you to play a straightforward game and has very few solo options. Tell
me what kind of economy does DDO have? Does it make you spend money or
make your money useful? Can you use skill talents such as crafting to
economically support yourself? Can you explore the outside world?


There is no depth in DDO by the way. Depth is defined by how involved
your character is to that world. Filling a spot in your party is not
depth, but having an impact on your economy using skill talents, being
able to grow and become your own force in any MMORPG is depth. There
isn't anything your character can contribute in DDO, unlike other games.


This is why DDO is like Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows. It doesn't matter what
character you pick, you make no impact to the world then the next
person. Moreover, you're only repeatedly doing the same over and over
again. Despite the boss battles and traps thrown in, it's only trying
to cover up the fact, you'll be repeating this in every dungeon. The
game is straightforward hack and slash with no objective.

---

So
now a game has to have user crafting to be an MMO.    In
all of the games that I have played crafting is always the most boring
part of the game (at least to me).   Oh well we can agree to
disagree, but I doubt we could even agree on that.

---

No, I didn't say crafting makes a game, it's the fact other mmorpgs
have "something outside of dungeon crawling" to offer. Whether it's
crafting, pvp, outside quests, side quests, etc. What does DDO have to
offer outside of dungeon crawling?

CaptainRPG

---

Originally posted by severius
Personally
what killed DDO for me was just the poor usage of the
license.   I honestly would have expected that the grand
daddy of the RPG genre would have gone to some extent to turn the whole
mmorpg genre on its ear.  And they tried, but imo failed
miserably.  The idea of getting xp for completing quests and doing
dungeon runs is a a good one until a person has to sit there and repeat
the same dungeons over and over again.  So instead of grinding on
mindless mobs you are grinding mindless quests.

---

Thank you. I know you're not agreeing with me, but at least I'm NOT the
only person here who sees the repetition and everyone else sees the
same repetition this game has to offer. I agree, I'm glad this person
found this game to be fun, but this doesn't make this game LESS
repetitive and doesn't give the game qualities it doesn't have. (Like
depth for example)

neuronomad

All I can say is "Don't Be Hating"!

Arremus

I've never played (or even seen) PnP D&D, the closest I've come to D&D is Baldur's Gate and NWN etc so I approached D&DO for what it is on face value.

I really enjoyed the short time I played it, and I feel there is only one major issue that stops it from excelling at the niche it sits in. One thing that stops it from being a very fun and deep experience.



And that is the simple, just I feel majorly important, fact that every dungeon is predetermined and static. Meaning, you walk into the Water Works, and the Rogue is able to say "Hold up, there's a trap through this door and around the corner".

The first time I hear that (and thus realised there is no variation) my heart sank. I knew at that point that what could be an exciting and versatile title was infact static and finite.



Variation in the traps and chest placements etc would go a LONG way to making dungeons much more repeatable. But as it is now, I ended up unsubscribing with characters at level 4 just cos I was sick of doing the Water Works 5 times each and knew where each trap and secret door was. And realised at that point that it'd probably  be the same the whole way through the game.



If that one issue could be changed somehow, I reckon I could really enjoy D&DO, but as it is now, that's what's keeping me away from it.

CaptainRPG

Yet, another person who feels the sting of deva ju.