I only played it during beta so I don't know how it is now, but anyone know if Matrix deserves another chance? One big turn off was the 1 vs 1 fighting. The combat wasn't intuitive, at least to me.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
Asheron's Call 2, EQ2 is said to have improved since launch as well and tried that but it is a very specific type of game really.
I beta-tested Asheron's Call 2, but never bought the game and played after release. What I saw were nice graphics, smooth system, but gameplay and class systems which were too simple and world content too dependent upon the interactions of other player characters.
AC2 had some basic faults which probably led to its early demise.
But, if they fixed some things, would be nice to see it rise out of the ashes.
I only played it during beta so I don't know how it is now, but anyone know if Matrix deserves another chance? One big turn off was the 1 vs 1 fighting. The combat wasn't intuitive, at least to me.
In SOE style, they redid the combat pretty significantly. You can still do Interlock, but you can also do "free-fire" combat, even with hand-to-hand.
There was a re-review of MxO posted on this site recently - I'd check that out. It made me want to play again, I know.
Who am I? @Lorechaser on CoH Badjuju, Splinterhoof, Plainsrunner on WoW (Moonrunner) Shyy'rissk on SWG (Flurry) ClockworkSoldier, HE Pierce, Letnev on Planetside Gyshe, Crucible, Terrakal on DDO And many more.
Been bored lately and need an MMORPG-fix. Dark and Light sent me an offer today where you can play to level 10 for free and it got me thinking. Are there any games out there that flopped on release but have been patched enough now and improved to the point they are worth giving a second look at?
I'm thinking games like Roma Victor, Dark and Light, etc.?
I don't want to hear about the bigger titles (Ie. EQ2, WOW, GW, EVE ) just the smaller ones we may be overlooking that some of you have tried lately.
Try ArchLord again once the new patch comes in in January. huge update Unless they plan on changing the Grindfest (Ala L2) all this will continue to be is a Korean..well...Grindfest.
I was in Beta and it was bad. Maybe they will prove me wrong.
Been bored lately and need an MMORPG-fix. Dark and Light sent me an offer today where you can play to level 10 for free and it got me thinking. Are there any games out there that flopped on release but have been patched enough now and improved to the point they are worth giving a second look at?
I'm thinking games like Roma Victor, Dark and Light, etc.?
I don't want to hear about the bigger titles (Ie. EQ2, WOW, GW, EVE ) just the smaller ones we may be overlooking that some of you have tried lately.
Try ArchLord again once the new patch comes in in January. huge update Unless they plan on changing the Grindfest (Ala L2) all this will continue to be is a Korean..well...Grindfest.
I was in Beta and it was bad. Maybe they will prove me wrong. Well, if you won't play a game that involves grinding, you will have to drop the MMORPG genre all together.
If Turbines would actually start advertising it as an ACTION-RPG hybrid game (heavy focus on ACTION, before RPG), it would help them some. D&D is definitely not the best IP for an action game, however you would target the right audience and might get some there.
See, now nobody should advertise about this, but if DDO is an action game, and I have a friend who want to know what my RPG look like, and then he know I play D&D and that DDO is an action game, well, 1+1 = 2. An action fan would find DDO nice to understand the RPG games his friend may play. Is it the best use of the IP? Hell no, but it is what we have NOW, and folks should work on what they have rather than start daydreaming...even I can daydream of making the best mmorpg in the world, but that doesn't make it appear; regardless of if I bother or not to write a GD for it.
See, someone somewhere didn't do his job, it result with having DDO been advertised as a RPG, which hurt it a LOT. Advertising your games as what they are and not leading, falsely, players with wrong advertisement, that is rather a crude basic.
Is DDO a nice game? Yes, it is VERY nice. However, it is not what these devs keep hammering. See, the monks in old EQ where not designed to be pullers. Fact is, they where the best pullers. Here, we have a little the same situation, except on a CORE aspect of the gameplay, I dunno how it went pass all the safeguards a company like Turbines should have, but it did...now, adapting the advertising is what they have to do. DDO is worthy of having MANY MORE players, but you have to reach for them, and wasting your time in a RPG-only crowd ain't going to bring you the players you want. You want ACTION-fans, which can bear with some RPG. Are actions-fans going to be a long-term and loyal customer base, I dunno, but I don't really know and I can't say, I don't know action fans that well. Not RPG fans...bah...I hate talking about basic stuff. You want to go against games like Eragon, Gods of Wars, heck maybe even Oblivion or other action game, not against pure RPGs games, you are going to be eaten alive RPG-wise with this heavy action-focus.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I bought it on release, it was effectively unplayable due to massive servers-side lag.
I paid full price for the box, and got less than 2 actual full days viable play for my money.
The answers from support:
- technical support sent to account support.
- account support sent back to technical support, or close the account if you are not happy 'as is' (no refund or compensation).
Basically, they could not care less about effective support and/or compensating the lost time paid for, after you bought the boxed game.
And yes, I can prove all the above if necessary...
Other than that, it was sold to the early customers as a Dungeons & Dragons adaptation.
That means true RPG, and implied PvE only.
Not only it turned out to be very far from D&D (rules not respected, pure action instead of turned based - it is really a MMOFPS, not a MMORPG), but the first thing they did to try to gain customers to compensate the RPG players market which they lost, was to implement PvP, which every D&D player will immediately see as stupid.
Bottom line: a marketting led operation, take a big name to draw a certain market, then once those paid and left, target another market. I other world, they do not care about the product itself, or the customers as players.
I beta-tested Asheron's Call 2, but never bought the game and played after release. What I saw were nice graphics, smooth system, but gameplay and class systems which were too simple and world content too dependent upon the interactions of other player characters.
AC2 had some basic faults which probably led to its early demise.
But, if they fixed some things, would be nice to see it rise out of the ashes.
I didn't have the mistfortune of playing it in Beta, but what I played was a decent game just yeah it had some issues which I think could have been done better. I mean the same starting area for all new characters was silly, a vitae system which was punishing- if you're desperate for players why include this? Some sort of end-game would have been good and perhaps they could have varied the environments a bit more. The expansion it released solely for old players was a bit odd, something appealling to newer players would have been good.
Been bored lately and need an MMORPG-fix. Dark and Light sent me an offer today where you can play to level 10 for free and it got me thinking. Are there any games out there that flopped on release but have been patched enough now and improved to the point they are worth giving a second look at?
I'm thinking games like Roma Victor, Dark and Light, etc.?
I don't want to hear about the bigger titles (Ie. EQ2, WOW, GW, EVE ) just the smaller ones we may be overlooking that some of you have tried lately.
AC2
MxO
Matrix Online could of been a classic if SOE had actually put some time and effort into it..
To those who are so anti-DNL who has played it recently and can comment? I understand Farlan and the company that released it are extremely unpopular but I could go in with an open mind. Doesn't really bother me. Is the game horrid too though?
I am going to download it but it is taking FOREVER...
To those who are so anti-DNL who has played it recently and can comment? I understand Farlan and the company that released it are extremely unpopular but I could go in with an open mind. Doesn't really bother me. Is the game horrid too though?
I am going to download it but it is taking FOREVER...
Yes, it is that horrible. The gameplay is only 1 aspect. There are other things to consider such as the poor downloading process (that you mention), absent customer service, very ambigious cancellation procedures (basically they are completely absent), very poor design and release, same problems exist that were in BETA 4 years ago, dishonest company (billing people 6+ months after they had somehow cancelled).
The basic thing is to keep in mind is that if you support games like this it sets the precedent that these companies can release unfinished games in a very poor condition and get away with it.
wwiionline had an very bad launch, now its significantly improved. If your a FPS type of guy. Definately deserves a 2nd chance.
Oh and play allies so you won't get too frustrated, the Germans are totally nerfed, badly nerfed. And bring a good computer with you. No laptops or 4 year old computers.
All I know is that Asheron's Call 2 was very buggy/laggy on release back in 2002. As I remember Turbine sold the game to Microsoft until year 2004-2005 something when Turbine bought it back and fixed the bugs and lag issues but it was too late WoW and EQ2 were dominating the market already.
Actually microsoft owned turbine up till 2005 or so when turbine broke off from M$ and bought AC2 back .MKany of the bugs were dealt with in 2003/04 but problem was M$ still controlled the billing and chat which was totally flawed and outdated.By the time turbine had full control back like you said it was too late.
Mind you i think turbine messed up .A good solution would have been to keep AC2 going and then do an all access thingie like SoE has for AC1,AC2,DDO and ofc soon LOTR.This has helped SoE keep games like MXO alive !
Ok back to topic.Erm i suppose auto assault if i was going to give a game a second chance.
DnL is not poop. It just had a very very very bad release. It's the kind of release these small companies get when they have a near finished game and no more money. They always opt to release and fix it as they go, but in this case they were not as finished as they thought they were. The game has come a long way since I last played at release, but it's by no means finished.
If you can get in for free even to try it out give it a shot but you have to be warned: Do not provide them with any payment information unless you are 100% sure you want to play and know going in that if after a few weeks you don't like all the bugs and such don't yell for a refund because it won't happen.
If your ok with that then who knows - maybe you will like it.
With D&L - As someone has already stated it's not the game thats the promlem it's the company behind it, they promised too much and gave it so little, not only that the biggest turn off for many people has been the billing side of it, for one they 'sold' beta access and then make it directly open so people that payed for the offer didn't get what they payed for in the first place (ie 24 hour access before the floodgates were open) hence a refund was offered which took forever to be process if it actally got through. resently players who got the beta offer got offered a 'free trail' but little was disclosed at the fact that at the 'trail' the account was demened 'active' therfore they got charged after that and now they offer D&L for 'free' but if you look at the very bottom of the email given in only a slightly lighter text colour then the background in the smallest font possible it says 'only up to lvl 10'. The company behind D&L has very poor billing management and has been very misleading of it's offers IMO, hence why people don't 'trust' the game
With Auto Assult - It's a good game to TBH, it's started out very small but it's doing what COH/COV did, so it's too be expected it's not 'in your face' good, it's getting there, it's like a fine wine , it's a dabble every once in a while one..
With DDO - It's a either you love it or hate it game, people compare it a lot to NWN, it's true they are both based off D&D, but I tend to think DDO leans more towards D&D then NWN does, primary example is the EXP system, although NWN trumps DDO on the 'good/evil system' as in DDO there is techally no 'evil' players and you can be 'rewarded' for doing both good and bad deeds in one quest which TBH is the main let down of DDO and really needs to be addressed as if there were actally good and evil players within DDO their 'PVP system' may actally work. DDO is a good translation of the PnP D&D, it's not prefect but unlike NWN at least it gets 'improved' for free
wwiionline had an very bad launch, now its significantly improved. If your a FPS type of guy. Definately deserves a 2nd chance.
Oh and play allies so you won't get too frustrated, the Germans are totally nerfed, badly nerfed. And bring a good computer with you. No laptops or 4 year old computers.
Interesting that you brought up wwiionline. I bought the game on launch and played for a few months and dropped it. But, I've been looking at it again lately, wondering if it is better. I'm looking for a "come back and try it free" offer. I remember having some good intense battles in that game.
Also, I played Auto Assault early and enjoyed it, but it did feel like a single-player game at the time, so I didn't think it was worth a monthly fee. I might like to give it a try again.
I'd agree with EnB...there wasn't a whole lot wrong with it, apart from the fact EA owned and operated it. It was great fun. It wasn't short of players either, AFAIK.
If Turbines would actually start advertising it as an ACTION-RPG hybrid game (heavy focus on ACTION, before RPG), it would help them some. D&D is definitely not the best IP for an action game, however you would target the right audience and might get some there.
See, now nobody should advertise about this, but if DDO is an action game, and I have a friend who want to know what my RPG look like, and then he know I play D&D and that DDO is an action game, well, 1+1 = 2. An action fan would find DDO nice to understand the RPG games his friend may play. Is it the best use of the IP? Hell no, but it is what we have NOW, and folks should work on what they have rather than start daydreaming...even I can daydream of making the best mmorpg in the world, but that doesn't make it appear; regardless of if I bother or not to write a GD for it.
See, someone somewhere didn't do his job, it result with having DDO been advertised as a RPG, which hurt it a LOT. Advertising your games as what they are and not leading, falsely, players with wrong advertisement, that is rather a crude basic.
Is DDO a nice game? Yes, it is VERY nice. However, it is not what these devs keep hammering. See, the monks in old EQ where not designed to be pullers. Fact is, they where the best pullers. Here, we have a little the same situation, except on a CORE aspect of the gameplay, I dunno how it went pass all the safeguards a company like Turbines should have, but it did...now, adapting the advertising is what they have to do. DDO is worthy of having MANY MORE players, but you have to reach for them, and wasting your time in a RPG-only crowd ain't going to bring you the players you want. You want ACTION-fans, which can bear with some RPG. Are actions-fans going to be a long-term and loyal customer base, I dunno, but I don't really know and I can't say, I don't know action fans that well. Not RPG fans...bah...I hate talking about basic stuff. You want to go against games like Eragon, Gods of Wars, heck maybe even Oblivion or other action game, not against pure RPGs games, you are going to be eaten alive RPG-wise with this heavy action-focus.
You know what, I respect you. You have made the most convincing post about DDO that almost works. You should apply for a job at Turbine. You do a much better job at making an arguement for DDO than Turbine's own marketing department or community managers. This MMOG-A definition that you created almost makes sense in terms of DDO. It almost gives merit to DDO's easy, normal, and elite school of thought on "mastering content".
Before I start bashing Turbine too much, I should say that DDO's normal looting system of each player in a party pulling out their own loot is one of the best looting systems ever created. You can't "ninja loot" in that game. However, who ever created the "dragon/shard" looting system for major bosses needs a new job. LOL
This MMOG-A concept that you define gives companies a license to skimp on content. Let's all forget about game content, forget about RPG, and just concentrate on action. If we all close our eyes to the fact that Turbine released a DEMO and suckered it's die hard player base into paying them $15 a month for enough new content every two or three months to last us a weekend, then ya... this MMOG-A thing works.
Come on dude, you and I both know (and everyone else for that matter) that the ONLY reason Turbine added PvP into the game was because their game is just a DEMO. PvP was the ONLY thing they could add in the short term to have a chance at saving DDO. Remember, this is a company that vowed from the beginning that PvP was NOT going to be a part of DDO. Again, the only reason why they added PvP is there was no other reason for true MMOG fans to stick around. They have and will always have a very serious lack of content.
Should DDO be given a second chance? HELL NO. They had nearly four years and the 2nd biggest MMOG budget to date behind World of Warcraft and all they could bring us was one instanced city with dungeon crawling based on a "mastering content" concept. Turbine should be ashamed of themselves for that MMOG.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Ok I have been convinced to cancel my DNL download. I read the forums a bit and everyone is complaining about the lack of players in-game, that it is almost never patched anymore etc. No point wasting my time in a dieing game and helping to support a company like that.
Trouble is non of these other games mentioned seem all that appealling either. *Sigh* guess i was hoping there was some hidden gem out there. Wishful thinking.
Comments
I'm Here. I'm Awesome. Get Used To It.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
Earth and Beyond
Shadowbane
I think both of the above deserve second chances.
Asheron's Call 2, EQ2 is said to have improved since launch as well and tried that but it is a very specific type of game really.
I beta-tested Asheron's Call 2, but never bought the game and played after release. What I saw were nice graphics, smooth system, but gameplay and class systems which were too simple and world content too dependent upon the interactions of other player characters.
AC2 had some basic faults which probably led to its early demise.
But, if they fixed some things, would be nice to see it rise out of the ashes.
There was a re-review of MxO posted on this site recently - I'd check that out. It made me want to play again, I know.
Who am I?
@Lorechaser on CoH
Badjuju, Splinterhoof, Plainsrunner on WoW (Moonrunner)
Shyy'rissk on SWG (Flurry)
ClockworkSoldier, HE Pierce, Letnev on Planetside
Gyshe, Crucible, Terrakal on DDO
And many more.
I was in Beta and it was bad. Maybe they will prove me wrong.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
Dungeons and Dragons Online
I was in Beta and it was bad. Maybe they will prove me wrong.
If Turbines would actually start advertising it as an ACTION-RPG hybrid game (heavy focus on ACTION, before RPG), it would help them some. D&D is definitely not the best IP for an action game, however you would target the right audience and might get some there.
See, now nobody should advertise about this, but if DDO is an action game, and I have a friend who want to know what my RPG look like, and then he know I play D&D and that DDO is an action game, well, 1+1 = 2. An action fan would find DDO nice to understand the RPG games his friend may play. Is it the best use of the IP? Hell no, but it is what we have NOW, and folks should work on what they have rather than start daydreaming...even I can daydream of making the best mmorpg in the world, but that doesn't make it appear; regardless of if I bother or not to write a GD for it.
See, someone somewhere didn't do his job, it result with having DDO been advertised as a RPG, which hurt it a LOT. Advertising your games as what they are and not leading, falsely, players with wrong advertisement, that is rather a crude basic.
Is DDO a nice game? Yes, it is VERY nice. However, it is not what these devs keep hammering. See, the monks in old EQ where not designed to be pullers. Fact is, they where the best pullers. Here, we have a little the same situation, except on a CORE aspect of the gameplay, I dunno how it went pass all the safeguards a company like Turbines should have, but it did...now, adapting the advertising is what they have to do. DDO is worthy of having MANY MORE players, but you have to reach for them, and wasting your time in a RPG-only crowd ain't going to bring you the players you want. You want ACTION-fans, which can bear with some RPG. Are actions-fans going to be a long-term and loyal customer base, I dunno, but I don't really know and I can't say, I don't know action fans that well. Not RPG fans...bah...I hate talking about basic stuff. You want to go against games like Eragon, Gods of Wars, heck maybe even Oblivion or other action game, not against pure RPGs games, you are going to be eaten alive RPG-wise with this heavy action-focus.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I bought it on release, it was effectively unplayable due to massive servers-side lag.
I paid full price for the box, and got less than 2 actual full days viable play for my money.
The answers from support:
- technical support sent to account support.
- account support sent back to technical support, or close the account if you are not happy 'as is' (no refund or compensation).
Basically, they could not care less about effective support and/or compensating the lost time paid for, after you bought the boxed game.
And yes, I can prove all the above if necessary...
Other than that, it was sold to the early customers as a Dungeons & Dragons adaptation.
That means true RPG, and implied PvE only.
Not only it turned out to be very far from D&D (rules not respected, pure action instead of turned based - it is really a MMOFPS, not a MMORPG), but the first thing they did to try to gain customers to compensate the RPG players market which they lost, was to implement PvP, which every D&D player will immediately see as stupid.
Bottom line: a marketting led operation, take a big name to draw a certain market, then once those paid and left, target another market. I other world, they do not care about the product itself, or the customers as players.
Knowledge is Power, but Ignorance is often Death
I didn't have the mistfortune of playing it in Beta, but what I played was a decent game just yeah it had some issues which I think could have been done better. I mean the same starting area for all new characters was silly, a vitae system which was punishing- if you're desperate for players why include this? Some sort of end-game would have been good and perhaps they could have varied the environments a bit more. The expansion it released solely for old players was a bit odd, something appealling to newer players would have been good.
~Greatness~
Currently Playing:
Nothing
MxO
Matrix Online could of been a classic if SOE had actually put some time and effort into it..
A bloody shame it is...
Dutchess Zarraa Voltayre
Reborn/Zero Sum/Ancient Legacy/Jagged Legion/Feared/Nuke & Pave.
I am going to download it but it is taking FOREVER...
Greatness is difficult to appreciate from close up. The great mountain on the horizon is only the ground when you are standing on it.
The basic thing is to keep in mind is that if you support games like this it sets the precedent that these companies can release unfinished games in a very poor condition and get away with it.
Oh and play allies so you won't get too frustrated, the Germans are totally nerfed, badly nerfed. And bring a good computer with you. No laptops or 4 year old computers.
Actually microsoft owned turbine up till 2005 or so when turbine broke off from M$ and bought AC2 back .MKany of the bugs were dealt with in 2003/04 but problem was M$ still controlled the billing and chat which was totally flawed and outdated.By the time turbine had full control back like you said it was too late.
Mind you i think turbine messed up .A good solution would have been to keep AC2 going and then do an all access thingie like SoE has for AC1,AC2,DDO and ofc soon LOTR.This has helped SoE keep games like MXO alive !
Ok back to topic.Erm i suppose auto assault if i was going to give a game a second chance.
Ok setting my personal feeling aside about DNL -
DnL is not poop. It just had a very very very bad release. It's the kind of release these small companies get when they have a near finished game and no more money. They always opt to release and fix it as they go, but in this case they were not as finished as they thought they were. The game has come a long way since I last played at release, but it's by no means finished.
If you can get in for free even to try it out give it a shot but you have to be warned: Do not provide them with any payment information unless you are 100% sure you want to play and know going in that if after a few weeks you don't like all the bugs and such don't yell for a refund because it won't happen.
If your ok with that then who knows - maybe you will like it.
With D&L - As someone has already stated it's not the game thats the promlem it's the company behind it, they promised too much and gave it so little, not only that the biggest turn off for many people has been the billing side of it, for one they 'sold' beta access and then make it directly open so people that payed for the offer didn't get what they payed for in the first place (ie 24 hour access before the floodgates were open) hence a refund was offered which took forever to be process if it actally got through. resently players who got the beta offer got offered a 'free trail' but little was disclosed at the fact that at the 'trail' the account was demened 'active' therfore they got charged after that and now they offer D&L for 'free' but if you look at the very bottom of the email given in only a slightly lighter text colour then the background in the smallest font possible it says 'only up to lvl 10'. The company behind D&L has very poor billing management and has been very misleading of it's offers IMO, hence why people don't 'trust' the game
With Auto Assult - It's a good game to TBH, it's started out very small but it's doing what COH/COV did, so it's too be expected it's not 'in your face' good, it's getting there, it's like a fine wine
, it's a dabble every once in a while one..
With DDO - It's a either you love it or hate it game, people compare it a lot to NWN, it's true they are both based off D&D, but I tend to think DDO leans more towards D&D then NWN does, primary example is the EXP system, although NWN trumps DDO on the 'good/evil system' as in DDO there is techally no 'evil' players and you can be 'rewarded' for doing both good and bad deeds in one quest which TBH is the main let down of DDO and really needs to be addressed as if there were actally good and evil players within DDO their 'PVP system' may actally work. DDO is a good translation of the PnP D&D, it's not prefect but unlike NWN at least it gets 'improved' for free
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
Interesting that you brought up wwiionline. I bought the game on launch and played for a few months and dropped it. But, I've been looking at it again lately, wondering if it is better. I'm looking for a "come back and try it free" offer. I remember having some good intense battles in that game.
Also, I played Auto Assault early and enjoyed it, but it did feel like a single-player game at the time, so I didn't think it was worth a monthly fee. I might like to give it a try again.
I'd agree with EnB...there wasn't a whole lot wrong with it, apart from the fact EA owned and operated it. It was great fun. It wasn't short of players either, AFAIK.
If Turbines would actually start advertising it as an ACTION-RPG hybrid game (heavy focus on ACTION, before RPG), it would help them some. D&D is definitely not the best IP for an action game, however you would target the right audience and might get some there.
See, now nobody should advertise about this, but if DDO is an action game, and I have a friend who want to know what my RPG look like, and then he know I play D&D and that DDO is an action game, well, 1+1 = 2. An action fan would find DDO nice to understand the RPG games his friend may play. Is it the best use of the IP? Hell no, but it is what we have NOW, and folks should work on what they have rather than start daydreaming...even I can daydream of making the best mmorpg in the world, but that doesn't make it appear; regardless of if I bother or not to write a GD for it.
See, someone somewhere didn't do his job, it result with having DDO been advertised as a RPG, which hurt it a LOT. Advertising your games as what they are and not leading, falsely, players with wrong advertisement, that is rather a crude basic.
Is DDO a nice game? Yes, it is VERY nice. However, it is not what these devs keep hammering. See, the monks in old EQ where not designed to be pullers. Fact is, they where the best pullers. Here, we have a little the same situation, except on a CORE aspect of the gameplay, I dunno how it went pass all the safeguards a company like Turbines should have, but it did...now, adapting the advertising is what they have to do. DDO is worthy of having MANY MORE players, but you have to reach for them, and wasting your time in a RPG-only crowd ain't going to bring you the players you want. You want ACTION-fans, which can bear with some RPG. Are actions-fans going to be a long-term and loyal customer base, I dunno, but I don't really know and I can't say, I don't know action fans that well. Not RPG fans...bah...I hate talking about basic stuff. You want to go against games like Eragon, Gods of Wars, heck maybe even Oblivion or other action game, not against pure RPGs games, you are going to be eaten alive RPG-wise with this heavy action-focus.
You know what, I respect you. You have made the most convincing post about DDO that almost works. You should apply for a job at Turbine. You do a much better job at making an arguement for DDO than Turbine's own marketing department or community managers. This MMOG-A definition that you created almost makes sense in terms of DDO. It almost gives merit to DDO's easy, normal, and elite school of thought on "mastering content".
Before I start bashing Turbine too much, I should say that DDO's normal looting system of each player in a party pulling out their own loot is one of the best looting systems ever created. You can't "ninja loot" in that game. However, who ever created the "dragon/shard" looting system for major bosses needs a new job. LOL
This MMOG-A concept that you define gives companies a license to skimp on content. Let's all forget about game content, forget about RPG, and just concentrate on action. If we all close our eyes to the fact that Turbine released a DEMO and suckered it's die hard player base into paying them $15 a month for enough new content every two or three months to last us a weekend, then ya... this MMOG-A thing works.
Come on dude, you and I both know (and everyone else for that matter) that the ONLY reason Turbine added PvP into the game was because their game is just a DEMO. PvP was the ONLY thing they could add in the short term to have a chance at saving DDO. Remember, this is a company that vowed from the beginning that PvP was NOT going to be a part of DDO. Again, the only reason why they added PvP is there was no other reason for true MMOG fans to stick around. They have and will always have a very serious lack of content.
Should DDO be given a second chance? HELL NO. They had nearly four years and the 2nd biggest MMOG budget to date behind World of Warcraft and all they could bring us was one instanced city with dungeon crawling based on a "mastering content" concept. Turbine should be ashamed of themselves for that MMOG.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Trouble is non of these other games mentioned seem all that appealling either. *Sigh* guess i was hoping there was some hidden gem out there. Wishful thinking.