You forget all the bonus stats that came along with ranger, i think they were quite good..
Anyway, It didnt rly mather if you were ranger and like rifleman, it worked out good anyway.
Sure, there were alot of bugs in it, still there was alot of fun things do to and i did never get tierd of thought "what to do next, theres nothing to do"
Always something to do, best game i ever played.
Starwars Galaxies, An Empier Diveded, That's what it says on my box anyway.
Thats right, I said destructable player buildings, you heard me correctly.
"But it costs to much to erect a building."
Then decrease the cost of erecting a building.
Destructable buildings would have vastly improved the player market, remember how the low level stuff was just skill-grinding stuff you destroyed in your inventory? Remember inflation? Destructable buildings would have solved both problems, inflation and low level itmes you could sell on the market.
I was a resource merchant, a big part of my daily play was running out to check the harvesters or go find the new resource spawns.
And I wouldn't have had any problem with destructible buildings. If implemented intelligently.
OK, so that rules out that concept if implemented by SWG's management team, obviously.
The basic harvester should have been fairly easy to destroy ... for a Commando with heavy weapons. But my friendly neighborhood armorsmith should have been able to sell me Harvester Plating that made my harvester much more difficult to take out. My weaponsmith and droid engineer should have been able to sell me Harvester Defense Units that counter-attacked that pesky Commando if he dared to open fire on my harvester. And of course, if my harvester was under attack, I should immediately get an in-game notification so I can go and deal with the TEF'd Commando if I happen to be online.
A heavily armored Harvester would take at least 15-30 minutes to destroy with a lot of heavy weapons fire, giving me time to mount a counterattack and defend my property.
So, in an intelligently designed system, destructible buildings provide new business to at least 3 classes of crafter, act as focal points for PvP combat, and provide a new and essential GCW role for the Commando class.
But hey .... why do anything like that? It doesn't do anything for Jedi, so obviously it's not worth doing.
This is why they failed. Great idear.
I once thought about meat harvesters with zappers that could zap creatures and sent out drones to collect. getting good meat was a nightmare for a BE.
brgds.
btw. i loved the game and had great fun and immersion in spite of bugs.
All of the above were problems with the game. I doubt anyone would say that there weren't flaws with the game pre-cu, hell even pre-9. But what I think most every veteran can agree upon (well of course except Obraik :P) is that the game, despite its many flaws, was still a hell of a lot better than what it is today. The hologrind was the first mis-step taken by the dev team... from what I can remember of that time there were plenty of interviews and videos of the devs saying that they were at a point where everyday they were monitoring a handful of players because they were soooo close to unlocking. But no one did, and they (the devs) got impatient so they implemented the holocrons and 5 or 10 minutes after the server went up from its maintenance and the holocron patch, someone went out and killed a bol and unlocked their slot. It wasnt because the players were impatient... it was the devs. Then things started going downhill as development shifted from the community at large to cater to the jedi population that was rapidly growing. They had always stated that jedi would be hard to attain and harder to advance in. Then because of some whining they said ohhh ok, no more perma-death. Then they said awwww ok, no more saber tefs. Of course the players didnt help much during this time with the afk grinding to become a jedi (especially after they took the death penalty away). Its funny but a good number of hte original jedi on my server got sick and tired of the game because that entire element of death around every corner was gone. Don't forget that before the CU there were the promises of the Combat Revamp, Smuggler Revamp, Ranger Revamp, etc etc etc. Had the dev team actually followed up on their promises instead of shoving their heads so far up each others backsides swg could be a far stronger game than it is today.
Nope go back way further down to the verrant crew who started SWG.Yes thats right pre - beta when verrant insisted no jedi and somehow LA felt they could repserve the RP part of SWG along side the jedis in this time frame.
Shortly after 2 main developers of verrant(newly dissolved to be SoE) posted this.They left one for sigil to work on vangard ,one to blizzard to work on a game called World of warcraft
From there on the new SoE developers and LA had no idea whatsoever to stop the explosion of jedis.They could have opened the flood gates anytime they wanted but tried to hold it back as much as possible to avoid losing the RP players and at same time keep the "future jedis" happy.Which was never ever possible .
The inital bad launch of the game just made matters worse.Some big wigs at SoE/LA were clearly unhappy with the numbers and felt it should have done way better.So they HAD to bring in jedis purely to try bring the lightsaber crowd in and pray the RPers (ofc we didn't).
Like you said and i totally agreed from there on it was bowing to the jedi population wishes because they lost the rest.So things like squad leader,droid engineer,rangers etc just got forgotten and all focus was on jedis.Again just like you said anything moaned about on jedi forum was the new bible- no perma death,no restrictions on numbers,no saber TEF (all things promised to the RP/story arc crowd back in beta).But then again that was the only crowd left.
Now here is where they drop the final ball.The new NGE.I seriously think someone actually sat down and said "wtf is this game a jedi only game.lets bring other classes up".I think the intention was good but for one factor.There was hardly anyone left without the jedi or be a jedi intention.Now bringing the jedi after 2 years to an area its similar to other classes to make them viable again was plain silly .
This should have been a problem sorted 2 years ago !Had they just learnt to say no rather then open their legs to every post on the jedi forum they would not have a mess.The jedi community would have moaned but stuck with it because the all powerful class was in the game which is primarily what they wanted even if it meant perma death,TEF or number restrictions .They would have grinded and waited patiently for their turn because they know it exists and ingame.This would have left the rest of the crowd still playing and even the "wannabie" jedis would have kept playing the other classes.Buisness as usual and they could even have time to sort other issues.
In end all they did was drive one community after the other.A lesson here- listen to your fans but learn to say no when it interfers with the vision of the game.
I'm with you on all of it for the most part...
I should note I did hear the Alpha SWG system was nothing like the Pre-CU system that came in at Beta. And as an old Ultima Online player I can safely say that the Pre-CU system was Raph Koster's child. Well along with his idea of "Dev's make the game, Players make the content." He tried that idea in UO as well, and in the end EA desided to ditch it as the non-hardcore gamers wanted quests and the like from NPC's...
As much as everyone go's on about the NGE being a Beta System lets face it SWG has been in Beta from launch till now. The games launch was poor and I get the feeling SOE/LA wanted to try and beat Final Fantasy 11 to the market. The fact that Speeders, Player Citys and Mounts where not in the game back then was a big downer (tho I give full props to anyone that made Master BH back then) the HAM system tho a good idea just didn't work, hardcore gamers liked it but other's hated the fact that they could die from just doing there specials. Alot of my friends who where thinking about picking up SWG or FF11 desided on FF11 due to what players where saying on the fourms about SWG... Some of the ideas are good, however the game was not ready to come out and the lack of good quest rewards was a turn off. Yes your hardcore player doesn't like good quest rewards and would rather crafted items be better. However I like a few other's believe it should be a little of both. The Jedi system just killed the game imho...
I came in a few months before Jump to Lightspeed came out, yeah I came in for that... I mean hey I grew up playing X-Wing, Wing Commander, Wasteland and the like. Also from my time on UO and other MMO's I find it's a good idea to wait a month or two after launch to go into the game. By that time there are some bug fixxes in place, the launch playerbase dies down somewhat as well. And I was somewhat unhappy with a few things in the game. I really didn't like the fact that I had to take Medic for the heals, Pistoleer was alright with a Geo Pistol but the movie weapons like the DL44 just felt low level and weak. Combat felt like half the classes where nerfed and the other's where too powerful. And the Jedi system was a killer, I remember alot of my guildmates just working for Jedi rather then playing the game all they talked about was how great Jedi was... Dare I say the fault of that system was rather then let players play the game, most 'worked' the game in the mad rush to be Jedi...
I'll get flamed for saying this but the Playerbase has truely had a big say in SWG from the start. Even with the NGE they had a say! Remember that when the NGE came out Player Bounty Hunting went out the door? Yeah I was unhappy being a BH, however I remember leading up to that all the posts from Jedi Players of "We don't want to be hunted by BH's!" And rather then come out with any new add-on's last year SOE did do what the playerbase told them to do. Rather then work on content, bring back the old systems... The game is paying for that now, players are bored as there's nothing to do besides PvP. And there in again rather then put in that new content SOE desided to do more with PvP, as it was one of the draws of the old players...
SOE does have the chance to turn SWG around... They did it with EQ2, they have been keeping Matrix Online alive and well. At this point SOE needs to get new content into the game. They need to talk about new systems for the game (ground flight) rather then act like there workers at Area 51 who can't talk about anything. And much like every game out there the Playerbase needs to let SOE do there jobs and get over the changes... I know I'll get flamed for that but the Pre-CU system has been gone for almost 2 years now. It's not coming back anytime soon if ever.
There were problems with the Pre-Cu game, yes, i agree. None of it was beyond fixing in the current game state however, There was no need for the CU or NGE.
Problems with the old system :
Melee too powerful compared to Ranged, SWG was the one place you could take a knife to a gun fight and win
Overpowered DOT weapons from nightslayers, Overpowered Combat DOT class.
Unhealable mind pool for anyone except Jedi
Dance and Doctor buffs were overpowered
Removing saber-tef was a bad idea, It resulted in showboating Jedi. When there was sabertef there were alot of jedi, but you didnt know they were jedi, the way it was ment to be.
These were the main things wrong with the old system and as you can see none were beyond fixing
there might be more however, I havent played Pre-CU for over 2 years, but these are the things i remember the most
Yes, it is a matter of what type of game you want. People that don't have the patience to play sandbox are childish.
"Hurray, finally a game where I can fulfill my lifelong dream of taking emotionally dead women and finding the most financially viable means to exploit their bodies with the ultimate goal of making them Hugh Hefner's personal furniture."
But more to the point, you are right. And... so? Yeah there were a lot of things wrong. The NGE didn't solve any of them.
In fact, it made them 100000000 times worse. From minor annoyance to gamebreakingly unplayable.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Well I think people tend to romanticize because despite some bugs and issues, there were many things that were enjoyable about the game we loved. Also, many of these enjoyable things evoked an emotional investment. A lot of what we worked for and enjoyed was related to themes like identity (i.e. character customization/template), purpose (i.e. profession), community (i.e. guild, city, hunting buddies), and companionship (i.e. friend lists, romantic attachments, pets). The game was designed to be immersive and emotionally rewarding, despite bugs and issues.
A second contributing factor to this "romanticizing" is loss. The things that we became so invested in were stripped away, against our will. Anytime these dynamics occur--significant emotional investment and loss complicated by a sense of injustice--people are going grieve. A lot of what I see on these boards is grief or mourning of significant emotional loss, and an outcry against the injustice that brought it all about. A healthy part of grieving is to reminiscence about what was special to us. Another healthy part of grief is to share the process with others, provided we can listen to one another supportively
So I welcome people's stories about their past experiences and adventures. I enjoy them, and they help me reflect on things I enjoyed in the game and friends I met.
Having said all of that, I agree that bugs and issues needed to be addressed in the "pre-cu/pre-nge" game. I also agree that the NGE did not address these issues, and that it brought about tremendous unnecessary loss, and created new problems that seem worse than what it was trying to solve.
mikemb y dont u go 2 maplestory & stay there i see u on pilot fourms & guess what? u b a noob & u got no friends lol
pre-cu = greetest system ever
i dont like star wars cuz it's nerd game but jedi made the game mo fun & yes i explot & cheat 2 get 2 jedi & i b loved 4 it. u just a fat nooblet who upset that u & ur nge lovers no that swg going 2 go back 2 pre-cu & u will b owned & ban from game
next off
i tired of u anit-pre-cu peeps insulting me & my homies & my game that right it b the VETS game. we dont want nge & soe best do waht we tell them 2 do. we tell them we dont like perma death so that go. holocron system 2 hard so that go. we never say "omg we want fps game"
we didnt want jtl or cu or rotw or toow we had r game & that want we want
so 2 all u nge fanbois that tell me "if u dont like it quit" i say this 2 u
Comments
You forget all the bonus stats that came along with ranger, i think they were quite good..
Anyway, It didnt rly mather if you were ranger and like rifleman, it worked out good anyway.
Sure, there were alot of bugs in it, still there was alot of fun things do to and i did never get tierd of thought "what to do next, theres nothing to do"
Always something to do, best game i ever played.
Starwars Galaxies, An Empier Diveded, That's what it says on my box anyway.
And I wouldn't have had any problem with destructible buildings. If implemented intelligently.
OK, so that rules out that concept if implemented by SWG's management team, obviously.
The basic harvester should have been fairly easy to destroy ... for a Commando with heavy weapons. But my friendly neighborhood armorsmith should have been able to sell me Harvester Plating that made my harvester much more difficult to take out. My weaponsmith and droid engineer should have been able to sell me Harvester Defense Units that counter-attacked that pesky Commando if he dared to open fire on my harvester. And of course, if my harvester was under attack, I should immediately get an in-game notification so I can go and deal with the TEF'd Commando if I happen to be online.
A heavily armored Harvester would take at least 15-30 minutes to destroy with a lot of heavy weapons fire, giving me time to mount a counterattack and defend my property.
So, in an intelligently designed system, destructible buildings provide new business to at least 3 classes of crafter, act as focal points for PvP combat, and provide a new and essential GCW role for the Commando class.
But hey .... why do anything like that? It doesn't do anything for Jedi, so obviously it's not worth doing.
This is why they failed. Great idear.
I once thought about meat harvesters with zappers that could zap creatures and sent out drones to collect. getting good meat was a nightmare for a BE.
brgds.
btw. i loved the game and had great fun and immersion in spite of bugs.
Nope go back way further down to the verrant crew who started SWG.Yes thats right pre - beta when verrant insisted no jedi and somehow LA felt they could repserve the RP part of SWG along side the jedis in this time frame.
Shortly after 2 main developers of verrant(newly dissolved to be SoE) posted this.They left one for sigil to work on vangard ,one to blizzard to work on a game called World of warcraft
From there on the new SoE developers and LA had no idea whatsoever to stop the explosion of jedis.They could have opened the flood gates anytime they wanted but tried to hold it back as much as possible to avoid losing the RP players and at same time keep the "future jedis" happy.Which was never ever possible .
The inital bad launch of the game just made matters worse.Some big wigs at SoE/LA were clearly unhappy with the numbers and felt it should have done way better.So they HAD to bring in jedis purely to try bring the lightsaber crowd in and pray the RPers (ofc we didn't).
Like you said and i totally agreed from there on it was bowing to the jedi population wishes because they lost the rest.So things like squad leader,droid engineer,rangers etc just got forgotten and all focus was on jedis.Again just like you said anything moaned about on jedi forum was the new bible- no perma death,no restrictions on numbers,no saber TEF (all things promised to the RP/story arc crowd back in beta).But then again that was the only crowd left.
Now here is where they drop the final ball.The new NGE.I seriously think someone actually sat down and said "wtf is this game a jedi only game.lets bring other classes up".I think the intention was good but for one factor.There was hardly anyone left without the jedi or be a jedi intention.Now bringing the jedi after 2 years to an area its similar to other classes to make them viable again was plain silly .
This should have been a problem sorted 2 years ago !Had they just learnt to say no rather then open their legs to every post on the jedi forum they would not have a mess.The jedi community would have moaned but stuck with it because the all powerful class was in the game which is primarily what they wanted even if it meant perma death,TEF or number restrictions .They would have grinded and waited patiently for their turn because they know it exists and ingame.This would have left the rest of the crowd still playing and even the "wannabie" jedis would have kept playing the other classes.Buisness as usual and they could even have time to sort other issues.
In end all they did was drive one community after the other.A lesson here- listen to your fans but learn to say no when it interfers with the vision of the game.
I'm with you on all of it for the most part...I should note I did hear the Alpha SWG system was nothing like the Pre-CU system that came in at Beta. And as an old Ultima Online player I can safely say that the Pre-CU system was Raph Koster's child. Well along with his idea of "Dev's make the game, Players make the content." He tried that idea in UO as well, and in the end EA desided to ditch it as the non-hardcore gamers wanted quests and the like from NPC's...
As much as everyone go's on about the NGE being a Beta System lets face it SWG has been in Beta from launch till now. The games launch was poor and I get the feeling SOE/LA wanted to try and beat Final Fantasy 11 to the market. The fact that Speeders, Player Citys and Mounts where not in the game back then was a big downer (tho I give full props to anyone that made Master BH back then) the HAM system tho a good idea just didn't work, hardcore gamers liked it but other's hated the fact that they could die from just doing there specials. Alot of my friends who where thinking about picking up SWG or FF11 desided on FF11 due to what players where saying on the fourms about SWG... Some of the ideas are good, however the game was not ready to come out and the lack of good quest rewards was a turn off. Yes your hardcore player doesn't like good quest rewards and would rather crafted items be better. However I like a few other's believe it should be a little of both. The Jedi system just killed the game imho...
I came in a few months before Jump to Lightspeed came out, yeah I came in for that... I mean hey I grew up playing X-Wing, Wing Commander, Wasteland and the like. Also from my time on UO and other MMO's I find it's a good idea to wait a month or two after launch to go into the game. By that time there are some bug fixxes in place, the launch playerbase dies down somewhat as well. And I was somewhat unhappy with a few things in the game. I really didn't like the fact that I had to take Medic for the heals, Pistoleer was alright with a Geo Pistol but the movie weapons like the DL44 just felt low level and weak. Combat felt like half the classes where nerfed and the other's where too powerful. And the Jedi system was a killer, I remember alot of my guildmates just working for Jedi rather then playing the game all they talked about was how great Jedi was... Dare I say the fault of that system was rather then let players play the game, most 'worked' the game in the mad rush to be Jedi...
I'll get flamed for saying this but the Playerbase has truely had a big say in SWG from the start. Even with the NGE they had a say! Remember that when the NGE came out Player Bounty Hunting went out the door? Yeah I was unhappy being a BH, however I remember leading up to that all the posts from Jedi Players of "We don't want to be hunted by BH's!" And rather then come out with any new add-on's last year SOE did do what the playerbase told them to do. Rather then work on content, bring back the old systems... The game is paying for that now, players are bored as there's nothing to do besides PvP. And there in again rather then put in that new content SOE desided to do more with PvP, as it was one of the draws of the old players...
SOE does have the chance to turn SWG around... They did it with EQ2, they have been keeping Matrix Online alive and well. At this point SOE needs to get new content into the game. They need to talk about new systems for the game (ground flight) rather then act like there workers at Area 51 who can't talk about anything. And much like every game out there the Playerbase needs to let SOE do there jobs and get over the changes... I know I'll get flamed for that but the Pre-CU system has been gone for almost 2 years now. It's not coming back anytime soon if ever.
Problems with the old system :
Melee too powerful compared to Ranged, SWG was the one place you could take a knife to a gun fight and win
Overpowered DOT weapons from nightslayers, Overpowered Combat DOT class.
Unhealable mind pool for anyone except Jedi
Dance and Doctor buffs were overpowered
Removing saber-tef was a bad idea, It resulted in showboating Jedi. When there was sabertef there were alot of jedi, but you didnt know they were jedi, the way it was ment to be.
These were the main things wrong with the old system and as you can see none were beyond fixing
there might be more however, I havent played Pre-CU for over 2 years, but these are the things i remember the most
Sandbox SWG > NGE
Yes, it is a matter of what type of game you want. People that don't have the patience to play sandbox are childish.
"Hurray, finally a game where I can fulfill my lifelong dream of taking emotionally dead women and finding the most financially viable means to exploit their bodies with the ultimate goal of making them Hugh Hefner's personal furniture."
Pre-Cu Subs > CU Subs > NGE Subs
Fact.
Over romantizing Pre-CU = Opinion.
Pre-cu was a significantly superior and more polished video game. (My opinion)
I just got done "trying" the hottest game WoW. Wow was not very good. Infact I was exceptionally dissappointed with it.
Slaying Nuna's is Lame? Ok wow is imo worse and easier.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Well I think people tend to romanticize because despite some bugs and issues, there were many things that were enjoyable about the game we loved. Also, many of these enjoyable things evoked an emotional investment. A lot of what we worked for and enjoyed was related to themes like identity (i.e. character customization/template), purpose (i.e. profession), community (i.e. guild, city, hunting buddies), and companionship (i.e. friend lists, romantic attachments, pets). The game was designed to be immersive and emotionally rewarding, despite bugs and issues.
A second contributing factor to this "romanticizing" is loss. The things that we became so invested in were stripped away, against our will. Anytime these dynamics occur--significant emotional investment and loss complicated by a sense of injustice--people are going grieve. A lot of what I see on these boards is grief or mourning of significant emotional loss, and an outcry against the injustice that brought it all about. A healthy part of grieving is to reminiscence about what was special to us. Another healthy part of grief is to share the process with others, provided we can listen to one another supportively
So I welcome people's stories about their past experiences and adventures. I enjoy them, and they help me reflect on things I enjoyed in the game and friends I met.
Having said all of that, I agree that bugs and issues needed to be addressed in the "pre-cu/pre-nge" game. I also agree that the NGE did not address these issues, and that it brought about tremendous unnecessary loss, and created new problems that seem worse than what it was trying to solve.
ARC3
mikemb y dont u go 2 maplestory & stay there i see u on pilot fourms & guess what? u b a noob & u got no friends lol
pre-cu = greetest system ever
i dont like star wars cuz it's nerd game but jedi made the game mo fun & yes i explot & cheat 2 get 2 jedi & i b loved 4 it. u just a fat nooblet who upset that u & ur nge lovers no that swg going 2 go back 2 pre-cu & u will b owned & ban from game
next off
i tired of u anit-pre-cu peeps insulting me & my homies & my game that right it b the VETS game. we dont want nge & soe best do waht we tell them 2 do. we tell them we dont like perma death so that go. holocron system 2 hard so that go. we never say "omg we want fps game"
we didnt want jtl or cu or rotw or toow we had r game & that want we want
so 2 all u nge fanbois that tell me "if u dont like it quit" i say this 2 u
it r game first & if u dont like it u leave