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Bush answer to Iraq War? Send More Troops.
freethinker
Member UncommonPosts: 775
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6223923.stm?ref=null
Well, it looks as if we are about to escalate our involvement in Iraq. Yes, Bush's "rethinking" of the war in Iraq has led him to conclude we need to send more troops.
He'll announce this in a few days with the theme of his speech will be about sacrifice. As if our soldiers haven't sacrificed enough in this nation building project we've started. They want more sacrifice.
I think it's obvious what I think...what about you?
Well, it looks as if we are about to escalate our involvement in Iraq. Yes, Bush's "rethinking" of the war in Iraq has led him to conclude we need to send more troops.
He'll announce this in a few days with the theme of his speech will be about sacrifice. As if our soldiers haven't sacrificed enough in this nation building project we've started. They want more sacrifice.
I think it's obvious what I think...what about you?
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Comments
I think it's definatly worth one last good push to secure the insecure parts of the country. We should have done this about a year and a half ago, or since the beginning.. the "Powell" doctrine if you will (use overwhelming force). Current levels of forces aren't quite working, and I think less troops would really fuck the country, so more is the only logical direction.
I am slowely coming to the opinion that while Saddam deserved everything he got, and am glad we tried to bring democracy.. I think it's coming to the point that the Iraqi people don't deserve it, and we should let them rot. Of course, this is probably from perceptions. I don't know if i'm missing something, but i hear numbers like 150,000 iraqi civilians dead and stuff, but just today, Iraq released a report that said only 12,000 civvies died in 2006. Now i don't think any more civilians died earlier in the war than later, so I dunno, maybe i missed something.
Saying all that, I was for the war, I am for the war. We gotta solve it. I think the biggest mistake so far in the war was cutting a deal with Sadr like 2 years ago.
Yeah right after that...
Holy freakin' crap I get a notice saying that I will probably be deployed in the summer of 07.
Woot.....
I'll go..., gotta do what you gotta do
Neptus - FFXI - Pandemonium
Neptus - WoW - Detheroc
I call this the sledgehammer and the nut solution.
If you have problems cracking nuts with your sledgehammer, use a bigger hammer.
No surprise that Bush isn't pulling out. His entire political capital is invested in this war. He is not able to.
He will never in his life be in a political or personal position to say he got it wrong. That thousands have died on his behest, needlessly and to no avail. Neither can Blair. If they weren't certain to begin with, circumstances have conspired to reinforce their convictions harder and harder. Each death has served to further lock them into their beliefs. Expect no guilt ridden suicides from these two. To their credit they both have big balls.
One the one hand, assuming his strategy is a good one, he must see the job through and not allow himself to be swayed by the whimsies of public opinion. You can't win a war if you are not in it. No one ever said wars would be all glory and victory, it's never over until it's over and many times victory has been snatched from jaws of certain defeat.
It is critical to U.S. and for that matter British, foreign intrests that the world understands that we have the will to fight. That if you buck us, we will kick you, and we will kick you hard.
Our militaries are not for show.
On the otherhand, I think his approach is totally wrong to start with, his strategy laughable from the outset. He can't win it, because he didn't understand it and set himself unachieveable goals.
A short sharp invasion. Overthrow the government and get out. Secure some military bases and oil contracts and then stay out of it. But O no, George is going to bring democracy to the entire region, turn them all into little America's. What a moron.
Had he left quickly, the world would have seen that America was not to be messed with, that anyone who displeased her would face her wrath. That America had not just the capability but the will to deploy. Not even the leader of your country in his deepest bunker is safe. Now all the world is going to see is that America has lost that will. That it's people won't stand for it intervening. Countries like Iran, North Korea and Venezuala can smell the weakness. They are willing to be more confrontational than before.
America has lost, and it's leadership lost it for her. As soon as Bush leaves office, (be his replacement Republican or Democrat), further progress can be made. Until then, the U.S. is locked into it's current cycle. Nothing is going to change. There is no re-think.
i~ku~ra
Justin Logan discusses U.S. Policy in Iraq
Who the hell is the sacrifice coming from, besides the troops? Has Corporate America sacrificed? Has the political donor class sacrificed? Have the politicians sacrificed? Have the American people sacrificed? Has anyone outside the military given up anything in our "time of war"?
"Mama, mama forget your pies, have faith they won't get cold. And turn your eyes to the bloodshot sky, your flag is flying full. At half mast, for the matadors, who turned their backs to please the crowd, and all fell before the bull. Red was the color of his blood flowing thin, palid white was the color of his lifeless skin, blue was the color of the mrorning sky, he saw looking up from the ground where he died, it was the last thing ever seen by him. Kyrie Eleison. Requiem Eternal."
This war in Iraq is just so much bullshit. Meanwhile, we keep Osama the boogie man alive to scare the people so the political donor class can carry on class warfare and reallocate the wealth to themselves. So answer Ronald Reagan's question..."Are you better off today than you were four years ago?" Well, are you?
Trickle down is exactly what it says, the Lords and Ladies enjoy the main course, while the dogs fight over the scaps that fall from the table. Kyrie Eleison.
When US troops discovered the Holocaust after WWII Germany was secured, they wrote home in droves that we have an obligation as a force of power to NEVER let this happen again.
This is happening these days all around the world. Massacre, genocide, bloody fruitless civil war.
We have the ability as THE world power to do something about it.
Iraq had infrastructure before we went there, yes. But Sadaam was a senseless, greedy single-minded dictator who thoughtlessly killed thousands, possibly millions.
Whether we should stay or go is a completely seperate argument, but I would like to point out the good things that we have established, which can be seen not by our media, but by the people who have been there. We have a done a good thing. War is never pretty, it is a huge sacrifice, and every great thing that our country has done in history was greatly debated at the time. That is what our country is built upon: internal division and great debate. That is how it was founded. Great division in opinion among the people is not a sign of how good or how bad things are going in this country. Just something to think of.
It is easy to criticize, and to be an “armchair general”, while we sip lattes and drive shiny cars to our safe jobs. Remember for a moment that we have it better than probably 90% of the rest of the world, and be thankful for the ability to freely argue about what our government is doing.
Every expert that I have heard on NPR and KPBS agrees that if we pull out now, it will only increase the death toll of civilians and children and send Iraq into utter chaos. All the experts and even the polititions know this, that is why almost none of them are suggesting an immediate pull-out. It is the American public that needs to come to the realization that we must recommit ourselves to Iraq if we are to do what is both moral and best for Iraq and the world.
I sleep with a pillow under my gun.
Dubya is rather ignorant of history. What is the old saying, something to the effect that "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"?
Soviets invaded Afgahnistan (sp?) in 1978. Eleven Years Later they still didn't have a secure hold on the country. Does not matter if it's communism or democracy, the people out there see a Foreign Power trying to enforce its ideals on them. They do NOT want a democracy, rather an islamic theocracy. They will keep coming, they will keep suicide bombing, they can't be reasoned with and they absolutely will not stop until we are all dead (or out of their country). Guerrilla Warfare has always been a rather effective form of combat throughout history, moreso now that the fighters do not care if they live or die.
Remember we didn't go into Iraq for "iraqi freedom" we went in because of the Weapons of Mass Destruction that Saddam had supposedly. Dubya claimed he had them and was going to use them against us! <mock panic and screams> Now if the public wasn't so gullible, they would of realized how absurd that notion was. First off assume if he did indeed have a nuke (which he didn't) how would he deliver it? No ICBM's so can't just press a button and lauch one at Washington. The SCUD missile has a range of approx 220 miles. Saddam had virtually no air force or military left over from Desert Storm. So, uh, he was going to threaten and attack us how exactly?
Furthermore when the war was still "officially" being waged, we really showed our concern for the iraqi people when instead of getting water and power turned back on, we secured the oil fields first. You can try to BS the american public with "we were protecting iraqi resources" but to Mr Joe Average Iraqi, he just wanted his running water back.
They faked the Jessica Lynch video as a photo op to try to make the Iraqi Army look more "sinister" or some other PR reason.
Lastly to say we can't pull out since it would only cause more chaos and such. Iraq is already in a civil war, has been for a long time. If we sent a million troops over would not make a difference would only prolong it. If we were really concerned about civilians, we would of had a better plan going in, better intel and the backing of the World Community. Yes folks, Dubya basically flipped off the world and said "we be going in yeehaw!" and now it is biting us on the proverbial arse.
Over 3000 dead soldiers in Iraq (not including those in Afgahnistan) and no end in sight. Former president Ford said the war was a bad idea. Retired generals have said they told Dubya this was a bad idea. The U.N. told us this was a bad idea. The last election the people told Dubya the war was a bad idea. I am not sure how much more it will take to get through that thick skull of his.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Let me tell something to all my right wing buddies. We tried to tell you that going into a Muslim country and trying to install a democracy was NOT going to work. Even more so in Iraq. But you did not listen. Now, you think you can back out of this and cover your tracks. No Way!
If you want to ruin your reputation even more than you already have then just try weaseling out of this one the way you're doing it.
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When will you idiots realize that the middle east doesn't contain a bunch of bearded crazy zealots who go around chanting death to anyone who doesn't follow their brand of Islam and what not.
Let me tell you about the middle east, 99% of the people are exactly like you and me, they just care about having a job, they care about their families, they care about watching their kids grow up. A fringe part of the society care about all the other crap that outofctrl and the ignorant fuckfaces in the US think. A very small fringe of society. There's no difference between an insurgent and Timothy McVeigh. There is a difference actually, an insurgent feels like he is defending his homeland, god knows what McVeigh was thinking.
Most people in the MIddle East just want to live life without the continual bullshit that happens to them on a daily basis. They keep getting punished for the deeds of a very very small fringe group. Also, the US-backed Arabic governments are the biggest and most corrupt crooks ever. See Jordan and Egypt. Actually, all arab governments are bullshit whether US backed or not. They do worse to their people than anyone else. The point i'm trying to make, when you think of the Middle East, think of 99% of the people just like you and me, only the fringe group really screws the rest of the population. If you say, the problem is the gov't and people don't control the fringe group.
I will respond by saying, yeah, does the US control the fringe group of people (McVeigh) and other whackos, also does the US control the people that shot up that Denver Bronco? It's not so easy.
The point i'm trying to make is that the people are just like you and me and you need to get that through your head. Now don't say, I know this one person and i know this other one, or here are a few articles contradicting your point. I will respond by saying, those are teh people that make the noise, they still comprise a fringe of the society, just because they make the news doesn' tmean the people are like that.
Don't forget, the US put Saddam and his craziness in power, don't act as if Saddam just popped out of a jack in the box.
Also, in all honesty, if let's say by chance, the muslims unite (complete and utter bullshit because they'd kill each other first) and once they united they deemed that the US and their actions are a hinderance to world peace and that the US just rapes and pillages other countries for their resources, sort of like how Iraq had WMD, and they decide to overthrow the the US gov't, I guarantee you, Outofctrl and of course MMO_man with his stache of guns wouid be running around trying to blow up the invaders. 100% guaranteed.
It's a myth to think that Insurgents and terrorists do what they do because they believe they'll go to heaven for it. It's not like, kill an infidel = heaven. That's a myth. The perception of their motives is different then the reality of their motives.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Doesn't matter, the Neo-Cons are screwed. The new congress will be convening in a few days and most of them are now outspoken opponents of the war.
Good riddance too, you bloodthirsty war hawk savage neo cons have proven time and again that you are not to be trusted.
Bush can send in more troops, thats his power and Congress can't really stop that, unfortunately what they can and probably will do is stop the funding. No more $200 billion loans to the war effort again.
So you Neo-cons can whine and bitch about the liberals "slowing down the war effort" despite not having a majority in ANY of the 3 sections of government (honestly I don't know how you can think that). But know this: this is no longer your government, we writhed and crawled underneath your government trying to get our voices and concerns heard for 4 fucking years as our party was washed underneath the Neo-cons demands. Now it is our time to be heard and you can live with it or get the hell out.
Eternally mine,
Keebs
The MMO gaming blog I write for.
Woot, i'm right wing! Did you know i'm a registered democrat? Of course the leadership of the democratic party has gone loopy. Just goes to show you i guess.
EDIT: and just to inform you, i don't go by any talking points. I guess you would find it suprising I watch more CNN than Fox News. (although i don't think Fox News is some right wing V for Vendetta thing that everyone else does i guess).
What i find funny is, for a few years now, you always try to convince people that things are going wrong, and that you should change your mind. And then i make one little comment about things that i think have gone wrong, and you say "YOU CAN"T CHANGE YOUR MIND, OMG!"
And i personally don't give a shit about a reputation on a fucking MMORPG off topic board.
As i said, I AM FOR THE WAR, WE SHOULD STICK IT OUT. WE GOTTA FIX IT.
Let me tell something to all my right wing buddies. We tried to tell you that going into a Muslim country and trying to install a democracy was NOT going to work. Even more so in Iraq. But you did not listen. Now, you think you can back out of this and cover your tracks. No Way!
If you want to ruin your reputation even more than you already have then just try weaseling out of this one the way you're doing it.
Brilliant use of the "we told you so" cop out...you have no basis for anything in your post, stop writing such utter nonsense. The "spread democracy" thing was just a reason given by Bush after no WMD's were found in order to satiate the rabid attacks of character that Bush undergoes every day from a liberal press. Saying "we told you so" is such a bullshit cop out that I can't even comprehend the kind of stupidity that it takes for someone to actually believe what you just wrote.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
no one could say it better. let the marines do their shizz with out any limitations/strings. we'll see who comes out on top.
well said friend...well said!
ack, sorry about that bro. ill be rootin for ya!
Was gonna say i feel sorry for you guys across the pond having your country run by a raving cuckoo however were not much better with flabby chebs Blair turning our beloved country into a stink hole. If there is a god and he had a conscience he give both these guys heart attcks.
Its amazing to think after serving with the british forces in the 91 Gulf war that not one lesson has been learned.
Greatness is difficult to appreciate from close up. The great mountain on the horizon is only the ground when you are standing on it.
P.S. MMO_MAN, take one of those guns you love to fight for and go play with it.