Here we go again with the EVEangelists like ssstupido doing what EVEangelists do best: hyping EVE by ignoring its obvious flaws, running its competition through the gutter, and offering no facts, but only strange analogies about how EVE is soooooo suuuupperrior to anything else. Saying EVE is "quality," and WoW is not, is like saying Taco Bell is quality, and McDonald's is not. They are both mass marketed,
And there we could stop reading, not to waste another two minutes of our lives on uninformed drivel. Mass marketed... You are calling the most narrow nichegame on the market today, or in fact in MMO history, a mass market aim? Comparing it to WoW?
I was wondering about that 59 in your nick, was it year of birth, or actual age? After reading this, I can only guess its IQ.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force"
Oh look, more WoW fanboys who are upset that they lost. Blame all those lazy millions who couldn't be bothered to vote on this site.
Oh, and don't go blaming that fact a EVE PLAYER posted a link to this site and it was stickied by a VOLUNTEER MODERATOR.
There have been many posts on the WoW forums linking this poll, but people are too busy whining to vote it appears.
Lets not blame the Staff member who posted the link to mmorpg.com awards on the main eve online website either.
Hey Gameloading, do you have any info on how many EVE players were attracted to come here and vote because of that link? i guess it must be at least half million
Enough to make a less popular and lower quality game (but still of very high quality) win over a more popular and higher quality game.
so, your conspiracy theory is that a game official page attracted 2k players to vote to a 500k member site, and they cracked the poll?First of all, Nobody here is talking about a conspiracy. There was no "secret" involved, it was wide in the open.
I also never mentioned any numbers, as I don't know how many people voted in the poll. But yes, I strongly believe that the reason EVE won is because CCP asked its players to vote. There is a reason why a game with barely 200k subscribers wins from a game with 7,5 million players.
well, its quite easy. on the awards page, on the graphics one, they say there were about 4800 votes. we can expect the same number of votes for any category.
that means that at most, 3k eve players read the news and came here to vote. well, in fact, that would mean there were no "native" mmorpg.com eve supporters, which is not the case. so, a more accurate number would be 2k.
so, 2k eve players invalidate a 500k member site poll. if that is not a conspiracy...
sounds reasonable, yes. Obviously enough players from eve-online.com came to vote for EVE to just give it that push to win.
so, your conspiracy theory is that a game official page attracted 2k players to vote to a 500k member site, and they cracked the poll?
First of all, Nobody here is talking about a conspiracy. There was no "secret" involved, it was wide in the open.
I also never mentioned any numbers, as I don't know how many people voted in the poll. But yes, I strongly believe that the reason EVE won is because CCP asked its players to vote. There is a reason why a game with barely 200k subscribers wins from a game with 7,5 million players.
well, its quite easy. on the awards page, on the graphics one, they say there were about 4800 votes. we can expect the same number of votes for any category.
that means that at most, 3k eve players read the news and came here to vote. well, in fact, that would mean there were no "native" mmorpg.com eve supporters, which is not the case. so, a more accurate number would be 2k.
so, 2k eve players invalidate a 500k member site poll. if that is not a conspiracy...
sounds reasonable, yes. Obviously enough players from eve-online.com came to vote for EVE to just give it that push to win.
well, its quite easy. on the awards page, on the graphics one, they say there were about 4800 votes. we can expect the same number of votes for any category. that means that at most, 3k eve players read the news and came here to vote. well, in fact, that would mean there were no "native" mmorpg.com eve supporters, which is not the case. so, a more accurate number would be 2k. so, 2k eve players invalidate a 500k member site poll. if that is not a conspiracy...
sounds reasonable, yes. Obviously enough players from eve-online.com came to vote for EVE to just give it that push to win.
Yep 2000 out of 511,793 members probably voted for eve or against WoW.
I agree this asystem of voting MMORPG has isant perfect but if you can sujjest a more workable system for next years Readers Poll im sure that with support MMORPG.com will use it. Because right now the current system is so flawed. especially when you consider that 2000 people can swing the vote on a site with 500,000+ members/alts.
These types of discussions are useless tbh. When it comes down to it Eve and WoW are worlds apart. They totally different in the type of game down to the type of players they are marketed to. WoW is a title for the masses the casual player and in most cases it is the statrter MMO for many people. Having said that a large portion of WoW players have never ventured beyond WoW and when they do they expect instant gratification and this leads them to think that all games BUT WoW suck.
Best example is the EvE forums when a new player forms a thread about how he got podded in space by a 'griefer' and shouts waaaaaaaaaaaambulance all over the place. Yes theres hell to pay in EvE if you do something wrong thats just the kind of game it is, and because of that it only attracts hardcore players and most of these players are above 20. Im not gonna sink into the immaturity arguement of both sides but coming down to it EvE is more complex that most MMORPGs out there and thats the reason it has a player base of 130k.
WoWs formula of instant gratification caters to more casual players as well as beginners, i refuse to think that any MMORPG veteran could play WoW and feel satisfied after 5 months of play i think thats next to impossible. As for the PVE award i personnaly wouldnt vote for neither tbh. WoW pve is a recycling plant doing the same crap over and over in different areas, PVE is the ONLY thing to do because pvp technically doesnt get you anything. "o look lets raid the alliance" then you realize you cant keep their towm "aawww". To many older players it comes down to "what am i pveing for?" Is it for money? for fame? for gear? for control?, when it all comes down to it WoW only gives you the drop/gear/xp and so on. You hit max lvl and all you get is more grind for more gear and again nothing more too look forward to except the next expansion which will raise lv cap again!!!.
In EvE you PVE for what? money, gear (sometimes), and thats about it. Though admitedly mining isnt part of what most would consider pve because if you do then youd have to bring in the manufacturing/sciencetific parts of EvE into play and in that case most games would be blows out of the water. When speaking stricktly of PVE EvE offers the npcs youd find in ANY game (though obviously different in concept) yet he will only give you money and drops (not xp cuz you dont need that), at the same time exploration adds a whole new lvl of play where you can find hidden areas, complexes would be the good ol dungeon per se. In these respects WoW and EvE offer the same yet in different settings and ofc the concept is radically different. Some people may like the medieval style, some may like sci-fi.
These kinds of polls and awards are the competition of tastes and thats it. EvE won because the community is highly involved in the game, if you look in the EVE-forums you will find Movies being created from ground up, ship models being created by players, wallpapers being made etc etc. The player base is simply more into their game that most other communities are. Yes its true CCP placed a link to this site for voting but tbh i dont think it was needed, people were gonna flow the award voting regardless because they like their game. As to why on earth the WoW players didnt vote is something i dont know, even w/o a link to their site (which the forums DID have) they could have voted overwhelmingly in ANY category and won simply by sheer numbers.
So stop whining wether EvE or WoW is better at PVE or any other category, each side will simply go for what their playing regardless of any hard truth, but imo EvE deserved the award forget the recycled missions and venture deeper into the game and you will see what i am speaking of. WoW is a good game though not one to play for long, there simply isnt much content for me to keep me interested. In EVE there are no bound to what i can do and even if i never accomplish my goals at least i know i have the capabilities to do so.
People keep saying this site has 511,804 members... Remember there is nothing to stop me from having 10,000 usernames to this site which is one of the reasons these awards are a joke, that and the fact that Eve won for best PVE of course
so, your conspiracy theory is that a game official page attracted 2k players to vote to a 500k member site, and they cracked the poll?
First of all, Nobody here is talking about a conspiracy. There was no "secret" involved, it was wide in the open.
I also never mentioned any numbers, as I don't know how many people voted in the poll. But yes, I strongly believe that the reason EVE won is because CCP asked its players to vote. There is a reason why a game with barely 200k subscribers wins from a game with 7,5 million players.
well, its quite easy. on the awards page, on the graphics one, they say there were about 4800 votes. we can expect the same number of votes for any category.
that means that at most, 3k eve players read the news and came here to vote. well, in fact, that would mean there were no "native" mmorpg.com eve supporters, which is not the case. so, a more accurate number would be 2k.
so, 2k eve players invalidate a 500k member site poll. if that is not a conspiracy...
sounds reasonable, yes. Obviously enough players from eve-online.com came to vote for EVE to just give it that push to win.
and that is bad because...? Because this is mmorpg.com's readers choice awards, not eve-online.com's readers choice awards.
well, its quite easy. on the awards page, on the graphics one, they say there were about 4800 votes. we can expect the same number of votes for any category. that means that at most, 3k eve players read the news and came here to vote. well, in fact, that would mean there were no "native" mmorpg.com eve supporters, which is not the case. so, a more accurate number would be 2k. so, 2k eve players invalidate a 500k member site poll. if that is not a conspiracy...
sounds reasonable, yes. Obviously enough players from eve-online.com came to vote for EVE to just give it that push to win.
Yep 2000 out of 511,793 members probably voted for eve or against WoW.
I agree this asystem of voting MMORPG has isant perfect but if you can sujjest a more workable system for next years Readers Poll im sure that with support MMORPG.com will use it. Because right now the current system is so flawed. especially when you consider that 2000 people can swing the vote on a site with 500,000+ members/alts.
500,000 members, not 500,00 voters. As sstupido said, there were 4800 voters, not 511k.
It is very easy to compare WoW and EVE. That is why people like you and ssstupido have to resort to abstract analogies about "quality," or, "sophistication," or "depth," because on the basis of the merits, EVE and WoW are pretty much the same thing: a multiplayer service designed to entertain.
Both WoW and EVE are designed to get as much money from as many consumers as possible, from each consumer as possible.
As far as comparisons to the game play, one doesn't need abstract analogies about complexity. A direct comparison of the features can be done:
WoW-- A well documented rulebook, easy to navigate interface, and intuitive gameplay allows the user to easily enter the game, progress, and have fun for their subscription fees.
EVE-- It is complex for the sake of those who want to pay to master the mathematics of dealing damage, taking damage, and earning ISK. No rulebook, with a complicated array of attributed values to nearly every system, combined with many exceptions to basic rules, means that EVE is a technical challenge to play, for those who like technical challenges. However, EVE does have very powerful statistical tools for those who enjoy working with statistics (I personally like the market trends graph).
Genre:
WoW--An action/adventure fantasy title, that offers multiplayer for a recurring bill. Since the action is important, you progress your character by doing actions, and you pay monthly for the ability to do these actions.
EVE--A trading, combat simulation, that offers multiplayer for a recurring bill. Since action is not emphasized, but statistics are, you don't pay so much per month to do actions, but rather, to gain statistics.
They are both successful titles, from what I gather. While WoW's revenue is high, I'm sure their fixed costs are also high. EVE apparently is so successful, CCP has enough money to expand into pen and paper, and trading cards.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Because this is mmorpg.com's readers choice awards, not eve-online.com's readers choice awards.So you are saying because someone plays eve he is not allowed to vote on a MMORPG.com Competition.
People keep saying this site has 511,804 members... Remember there is nothing to stop me from having 10,000 usernames to this site which is one of the reasons these awards are a joke, that and the fact that Eve won for best PVE of course
You are right theres nothing stopping people from having 10k usernames and that fact that EvE won anyway means the WoW crowd didnt bother, its a ppopularity contest and WoW could have easily won. The same tool EvE fans used were at your disposal so stop the whining kid. And as i stated neither game is hot in the PVE department cuz tbh As bleak as some may view EvE PVE it is far more indepth than WoWs PVE system, and ofc lets not forget that in the end after everything is all said and done you grinded away months of your life and you get nothing, no one will ever remember you when you leave, your guild left no mark in the WoW world and your gear will mean nothing. Try polaying EvE for the same time u'd play WoW and ull see what im speaking of, and if you have its sad to see you make such remarks. I like both games but WoW simply doesnt offer enough to keep me there.
I disagree KoalanKnight. It is very easy to compare WoW and EVE. That is why people like you and ssstupido have to resort to abstract analogies about "quality," or, "sophistication," or "depth," because on the basis of the merits, EVE and WoW are pretty much the same thing: a multiplayer service designed to entertain. Both WoW and EVE are designed to get as much money from as many consumers as possible, from each consumer as possible. As far as comparisons to the game play, one doesn't need abstract analogies about complexity. A direct comparison of the features can be done: WoW-- A well documented rulebook, easy to navigate interface, and intuitive gameplay allows the user to easily enter the game, progress, and have fun for their subscription fees. EVE-- It is complex for the sake of those who want to pay to master the mathematics of dealing damage, taking damage, and earning ISK. No rulebook, with a complicated array of attributed values to nearly every system, combined with many exceptions to basic rules, means that EVE is a technical challenge to play, for those who like technical challenges. However, EVE does have very powerful statistical tools for those who enjoy working with statistics (I personally like the market trends graph). Genre: WoW--An action/adventure fantasy title, that offers multiplayer for a recurring bill. Since the action is important, you progress your character by doing actions, and you pay monthly for the ability to do these actions. EVE--A trading, combat simulation, that offers multiplayer for a recurring bill. Since action is not emphasized, but statistics are, you don't pay so much per month to do actions, but rather, to gain statistics. They are both successful titles, from what I gather. While WoW's revenue is high, I'm sure their fixed costs are also high. EVE apparently is so successful, CCP has enough money to expand into pen and paper, and trading cards.
I was just thinking that the 6 earlier threads on this were woefully insufficient. We really needed another thread by idiots who actually think the fan awards with 5000 voters were meaningful in any way.
Because this is mmorpg.com's readers choice awards, not eve-online.com's readers choice awards.So you are saying because someone plays eve he is not allowed to vote on a MMORPG.com Competition.
Thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying that people who are actually part of mmorpg.com should be allowed to vote. Be it people who are active on the forum, or people who actually use this website as a news recourse. But not someone who's only intention is to vote for EVE.
I was just thinking that the 6 earlier threads on this were woefully insufficient. We really needed another thread by idiots who actually think the fan awards with 5000 voters were meaningful in any way.
Thank god this thread came along to save us all.
You are welcome. PS. don't mistake votes for voters - there were less than 5000 votes cast, you don't know if 5000 seperate individuals voted.
Because this is mmorpg.com's readers choice awards, not eve-online.com's readers choice awards.So you are saying because someone plays eve he is not allowed to vote on a MMORPG.com Competition.
Thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying that people who are actually part of mmorpg.com should be allowed to vote. Be it people who are active on the forum, or people who actually use this website as a news recourse. But not someone who's only intention is to vote for EVE.So you are now saying that MMORPG.COM somehow stopped non eve voters from voting then hmm then your right it was riged
IM betting that if 5000 people voted like Pride said that 2000 of them were eve fans and the rest [excluding a few] were WoW haters who when presented with the choice between EvE and Wow voted EvE.
I disagree KoalanKnight. It is very easy to compare WoW and EVE. That is why people like you and ssstupido have to resort to abstract analogies about "quality," or, "sophistication," or "depth," because on the basis of the merits, EVE and WoW are pretty much the same thing: a multiplayer service designed to entertain. Both WoW and EVE are designed to get as much money from as many consumers as possible, from each consumer as possible. As far as comparisons to the game play, one doesn't need abstract analogies about complexity. A direct comparison of the features can be done: WoW-- A well documented rulebook, easy to navigate interface, and intuitive gameplay allows the user to easily enter the game, progress, and have fun for their subscription fees. EVE-- It is complex for the sake of those who want to pay to master the mathematics of dealing damage, taking damage, and earning ISK. No rulebook, with a complicated array of attributed values to nearly every system, combined with many exceptions to basic rules, means that EVE is a technical challenge to play, for those who like technical challenges. However, EVE does have very powerful statistical tools for those who enjoy working with statistics (I personally like the market trends graph). Genre: WoW--An action/adventure fantasy title, that offers multiplayer for a recurring bill. Since the action is important, you progress your character by doing actions, and you pay monthly for the ability to do these actions. EVE--A trading, combat simulation, that offers multiplayer for a recurring bill. Since action is not emphasized, but statistics are, you don't pay so much per month to do actions, but rather, to gain statistics. They are both successful titles, from what I gather. While WoW's revenue is high, I'm sure their fixed costs are also high. EVE apparently is so successful, CCP has enough money to expand into pen and paper, and trading cards.
Yes CCP made EVE to make more money but they are the ONLY independent company to be succesful atm and if they trully wanted to market to the masses they could have gone away with many of the things that make the game soo deep. People that label EVE as overly complex are wrong.
In the beginning all the information can seem overwhelming but EVE does have its tools laid out for you to do as you wish, its open ended. In WoW things are more scripted and ofc this is fine but at some point you will reach the endgame and have nothing to do but repeat instances for more gear etc. The reason EvE is soo complex is merely because it gives the player the tools to build an empire as well as destroy one, to make a name for yourself etc. These games a radically different, neither could be labeled as better than the other because better is a matter of perception and people have different tastes.
ANYONE simply making a comment of how EvE sucks this and or that better have at least played the damn game for 6 months to make an ample assesment because even then there are a lot of things to be learnt. Most people here play the trial for 2 days whine how they cant fly a mothership (or lose their frig to someone) and whine about it. Make sure that if your posting about any game no matter which one it is you have truly given the game a chance rather than simply jumping the badwaggon of whiners.
Because this is mmorpg.com's readers choice awards, not eve-online.com's readers choice awards.So you are saying because someone plays eve he is not allowed to vote on a MMORPG.com Competition.
Thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying that people who are actually part of mmorpg.com should be allowed to vote. Be it people who are active on the forum, or people who actually use this website as a news recourse. But not someone who's only intention is to vote for EVE.So you are now saying that MMORPG.COM somehow stopped non eve voters from voting then hmm then your right it was riged
Here we go again with the EVEangelists like ssstupido doing what EVEangelists do best: hyping EVE by ignoring its obvious flaws, running its competition through the gutter, and offering no facts, but only strange analogies about how EVE is soooooo suuuupperrior to anything else. Saying EVE is "quality," and WoW is not, is like saying Taco Bell is quality, and McDonald's is not. They are both mass marketed,
And there we could stop reading, not to waste another two minutes of our lives on uninformed drivel. Mass marketed... You are calling the most narrow nichegame on the market today, or in fact in MMO history, a mass market aim? Comparing it to WoW?
I was wondering about that 59 in your nick, was it year of borth, or actual age? After reading this, I can only guess its IQ.
I am calling a massive multiplayer online roleplaying game, and by CCP's definition, "The world's largest online universe," simply what it is: a game that needs a massive audience to make the business model and product work as designed.
I mean, they take out full page ads in gaming magazines. They buy ad space on webpages. They have a PR machine, and are branching into new areas to sell EVE to card gamers and pen and paper roleplayers in an attempt to get some crossover sales.
Say my IQ is only 59 all you want man. I could call Taco Bell, KFC, or Arby's "niche" too, but for me to say that Taco Bell is as "niche" as Thai, or Ethiopian cuisine is a stretch.
EVE isn't some MUD with 40 users. Its not even a game that is "niche," when you stop and think of all the MMOs that are not even listed on the sidebar here, yet have forums here. You want to talk niche? Talk Ogre Island, Tantra, or Tale in the Desert. Compared with real niche games, EVE looks about as vanilla as Dairy Queen.
Its a game that has thousands of players from all over the world, who together pay them millions of dollars monthly to play. If the shoe were on the other foot and EVE was the one with 7 million subscribers, do you really think that CCP would think they did something wrong? Or would EVE be "mainstream," and WoW "niche?"
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Beatnik59 The issue is that both games shouldnt be compared at all. Its true that they are both mass market games and that the companies involved are out to make as money. Thats what businessess do. However when ti comes down to it WOWs formula is geared to attract a much larger population (people who never played MMORPGs, people who play games casually, or those who simply got tired of the games they used to play and want to be part of a large gaming community) all of these things are fine. WoW is by no means a bad game, whatever it set out to do it has done it well by far. But a comparison to EvE is inappropiate for many reasons.
EvE is a mass market game but it is not marketed for ALL audiences (like WoW is). It is geared towards the more hardcore crowd, the people who like more complex and indepth experience. It rewards of you take the risks and sometimes you will fall pretty damn hard. WoW as it is meant to be a general audience game is more lax and is by all means a much easier game to play in, the game guides you through more confined stages than EvE would per se. In EvE when you are in for the 1st time CCP leaves the game in your hands and you do as you wish.
These two games are as far apart as day and night, and that is not to say WoW suck by any measure, it simply means that comparing the two is not smart. The arguement of quality vs quantity is also void for the same reasons. EvE WAS made for less people and just because WOW was created to cater to 7m people or more doesnt mean its of lesser quality take in mind that pleasing the 32k active members in EvE is hard enough i couldnt imagine 7m people.
When it comes down to it both sides had the tool to vote as they wished and the EvE community simply showed the most interest in voting, had WoW players botherd to flod the voting polls they could have wont all categories with their eyes closed. Thats the way popularity contests work, whining about the results is futile if both sides had the same oportunities.
I enjoyed my time in EvE, but it was becasue there is not PVE in it beyond the basic storyline missions. Ratting isn't complex nor awe inspiring. Most people do the randomly generated missions when they are low on cash or complexs in hopes of a bp1 and never return. What makes EvE fun is the lack of PVE and winninga PVE award is ridiculous and the backlash is apt. EvE is a great game, but the fanbois voted it up in areas it should not win and people speak up when that happens. It is akin to WoW winning best PvP, or Guild Wars best economy/crafting related awards.
Waiting for the downtime to pass so might aswell post too.
Are you seriously telling me that no WoW fanboi has not critisized anything in Eve other than PvE? They trash everything. Why? Because they don't think before they post. If you need proof I can go ahead and whore the forums for quotes and links.
I will admit that the missions do get annoying - which is why I never run them. However if you've played since the latest expansion (Revelations I) then you'll notice that there are now new PvE aspects. Such as exploration/invention. Now there are many hidden complexes (like dungeons but pockets in space) that have to be scanned down, and are quite hard to find. But when you do they're quite fun, all have their own storyline and yield very nice loot (t2 rig bpcs, stuff needed for invention, etc.). So CCP are improving all the aspects on a regular basis.
We see a major expansion at least every half a year and minor ones every 2-3 months, maybe more often. Don't see how WoW compares to that at all. Especially when you take into account that CCP gets about 1.5 million Euros per month from their subscriptions while Blizzard gets over 100 million. PER MONTH. Can you imagine that with Blizzard getting 50-75 times mroe money than the Eve devs they still release expansions at a crapper rate, don't have much forum presence, and have a generally crappier game. It just goes to show how much Blizzard cares about WoW - you can see the money isn't going back into the game, while CCP constantly improve their hardware on that massive server they run, have stemmed into a new server for Chinese players, and have now got about 100 devs working on Eve fulltime.
Difference between WoW and Eve devs is that the Eve devs are all passionate about the game and play it themselves with their own accounts. So they all feel the need to improve and alter parts of the game as much as the players, and answer forum posts. Wow devs..... well they're like normal devs i guess. They only care about their paycheck.
Its a game that has thousands of players from all over the world, who together pay them millions of dollars monthly to play. If the shoe were on the other foot and EVE was the one with 7 million subscribers, do you really think that CCP would think they did something wrong? Or would EVE be "mainstream," and WoW "niche?"
Now let's take that comment here. First of all Wow subscribers pay a total of 100 million euros per month, while Eve subscribers pay under 2. So i'd say your perception of the games budget's are significantly warped. Can you look me in the face (metaphorically) and tell me that the quality of the games Eve and Wow are relative to their budget? They're not. Wow is not 50 times better than Eve. Wow is worse than eve (personal opinion here ofc).
You say that if Eve had 7 million players etc etc. There is no way that Eve will have more players than Wow, until Wow dies ofc and Eve will still be going. And it will eventually happen. People play Eve for years, almost everyone I know who plays Eve never gave up for any reasons other than serious RL issues. While all my friends who've tried out WoW, including myself, got bored of the game after about a week when we realised the huge grind involved and the resemblance of WoW to all the other 5000 fantasy MMOs. In fact i've probably played almost all of the major and non-popular MMORPGs around, mostly on trial, and I can say that Eve is the only game that held me for longer than a month. Been going at ti for three years now. Why? Because there's no "end-game" as there is in WoW or other mainstream games. There is no final level you can reach, because new skills and features for which they are needed are constantly added.
Eve may no longer be niche in terms of the numbers of people playing it, but it's niche in terms of the audience. Mostly mature people with families and professional jobs, who are patient and clever enough to get past the learning curve play Eve, which generally leads to a mostly mature community. Something quite rare in MMORPGs. EVe is also a niche game in terms of it's open endedness, and the near perfect market economy which is fully player driven.
Comments
And there we could stop reading, not to waste another two minutes of our lives on uninformed drivel. Mass marketed... You are calling the most narrow nichegame on the market today, or in fact in MMO history, a mass market aim? Comparing it to WoW?
I was wondering about that 59 in your nick, was it year of birth, or actual age? After reading this, I can only guess its IQ.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
Hey Gameloading, do you have any info on how many EVE players were attracted to come here and vote because of that link? i guess it must be at least half million
Enough to make a less popular and lower quality game (but still of very high quality) win over a more popular and higher quality game.so, your conspiracy theory is that a game official page attracted 2k players to vote to a 500k member site, and they cracked the poll?First of all, Nobody here is talking about a conspiracy. There was no "secret" involved, it was wide in the open.
I also never mentioned any numbers, as I don't know how many people voted in the poll. But yes, I strongly believe that the reason EVE won is because CCP asked its players to vote. There is a reason why a game with barely 200k subscribers wins from a game with 7,5 million players.
well, its quite easy. on the awards page, on the graphics one, they say there were about 4800 votes. we can expect the same number of votes for any category.
that means that at most, 3k eve players read the news and came here to vote. well, in fact, that would mean there were no "native" mmorpg.com eve supporters, which is not the case. so, a more accurate number would be 2k.
so, 2k eve players invalidate a 500k member site poll. if that is not a conspiracy...
sounds reasonable, yes. Obviously enough players from eve-online.com came to vote for EVE to just give it that push to win.I also never mentioned any numbers, as I don't know how many people voted in the poll. But yes, I strongly believe that the reason EVE won is because CCP asked its players to vote. There is a reason why a game with barely 200k subscribers wins from a game with 7,5 million players.
well, its quite easy. on the awards page, on the graphics one, they say there were about 4800 votes. we can expect the same number of votes for any category.
that means that at most, 3k eve players read the news and came here to vote. well, in fact, that would mean there were no "native" mmorpg.com eve supporters, which is not the case. so, a more accurate number would be 2k.
so, 2k eve players invalidate a 500k member site poll. if that is not a conspiracy...
sounds reasonable, yes. Obviously enough players from eve-online.com came to vote for EVE to just give it that push to win.and that is bad because...?
Yep 2000 out of 511,793 members probably voted for eve or against WoW.
I agree this asystem of voting MMORPG has isant perfect but if you can sujjest a more workable system for next years Readers Poll im sure that with support MMORPG.com will use it. Because right now the current system is so flawed. especially when you consider that 2000 people can swing the vote on a site with 500,000+ members/alts.
These types of discussions are useless tbh. When it comes down to it Eve and WoW are worlds apart. They totally different in the type of game down to the type of players they are marketed to. WoW is a title for the masses the casual player and in most cases it is the statrter MMO for many people. Having said that a large portion of WoW players have never ventured beyond WoW and when they do they expect instant gratification and this leads them to think that all games BUT WoW suck.
Best example is the EvE forums when a new player forms a thread about how he got podded in space by a 'griefer' and shouts waaaaaaaaaaaambulance all over the place. Yes theres hell to pay in EvE if you do something wrong thats just the kind of game it is, and because of that it only attracts hardcore players and most of these players are above 20. Im not gonna sink into the immaturity arguement of both sides but coming down to it EvE is more complex that most MMORPGs out there and thats the reason it has a player base of 130k.
WoWs formula of instant gratification caters to more casual players as well as beginners, i refuse to think that any MMORPG veteran could play WoW and feel satisfied after 5 months of play i think thats next to impossible. As for the PVE award i personnaly wouldnt vote for neither tbh. WoW pve is a recycling plant doing the same crap over and over in different areas, PVE is the ONLY thing to do because pvp technically doesnt get you anything. "o look lets raid the alliance" then you realize you cant keep their towm "aawww". To many older players it comes down to "what am i pveing for?" Is it for money? for fame? for gear? for control?, when it all comes down to it WoW only gives you the drop/gear/xp and so on. You hit max lvl and all you get is more grind for more gear and again nothing more too look forward to except the next expansion which will raise lv cap again!!!.
In EvE you PVE for what? money, gear (sometimes), and thats about it. Though admitedly mining isnt part of what most would consider pve because if you do then youd have to bring in the manufacturing/sciencetific parts of EvE into play and in that case most games would be blows out of the water. When speaking stricktly of PVE EvE offers the npcs youd find in ANY game (though obviously different in concept) yet he will only give you money and drops (not xp cuz you dont need that), at the same time exploration adds a whole new lvl of play where you can find hidden areas, complexes would be the good ol dungeon per se. In these respects WoW and EvE offer the same yet in different settings and ofc the concept is radically different. Some people may like the medieval style, some may like sci-fi.
These kinds of polls and awards are the competition of tastes and thats it. EvE won because the community is highly involved in the game, if you look in the EVE-forums you will find Movies being created from ground up, ship models being created by players, wallpapers being made etc etc. The player base is simply more into their game that most other communities are. Yes its true CCP placed a link to this site for voting but tbh i dont think it was needed, people were gonna flow the award voting regardless because they like their game. As to why on earth the WoW players didnt vote is something i dont know, even w/o a link to their site (which the forums DID have) they could have voted overwhelmingly in ANY category and won simply by sheer numbers.
So stop whining wether EvE or WoW is better at PVE or any other category, each side will simply go for what their playing regardless of any hard truth, but imo EvE deserved the award forget the recycled missions and venture deeper into the game and you will see what i am speaking of. WoW is a good game though not one to play for long, there simply isnt much content for me to keep me interested. In EVE there are no bound to what i can do and even if i never accomplish my goals at least i know i have the capabilities to do so.
I also never mentioned any numbers, as I don't know how many people voted in the poll. But yes, I strongly believe that the reason EVE won is because CCP asked its players to vote. There is a reason why a game with barely 200k subscribers wins from a game with 7,5 million players.
well, its quite easy. on the awards page, on the graphics one, they say there were about 4800 votes. we can expect the same number of votes for any category.
that means that at most, 3k eve players read the news and came here to vote. well, in fact, that would mean there were no "native" mmorpg.com eve supporters, which is not the case. so, a more accurate number would be 2k.
so, 2k eve players invalidate a 500k member site poll. if that is not a conspiracy...
sounds reasonable, yes. Obviously enough players from eve-online.com came to vote for EVE to just give it that push to win.and that is bad because...? Because this is mmorpg.com's readers choice awards, not eve-online.com's readers choice awards.
Yep 2000 out of 511,793 members probably voted for eve or against WoW.
I agree this asystem of voting MMORPG has isant perfect but if you can sujjest a more workable system for next years Readers Poll im sure that with support MMORPG.com will use it. Because right now the current system is so flawed. especially when you consider that 2000 people can swing the vote on a site with 500,000+ members/alts.
500,000 members, not 500,00 voters. As sstupido said, there were 4800 voters, not 511k.I disagree KoalanKnight.
It is very easy to compare WoW and EVE. That is why people like you and ssstupido have to resort to abstract analogies about "quality," or, "sophistication," or "depth," because on the basis of the merits, EVE and WoW are pretty much the same thing: a multiplayer service designed to entertain.
Both WoW and EVE are designed to get as much money from as many consumers as possible, from each consumer as possible.
As far as comparisons to the game play, one doesn't need abstract analogies about complexity. A direct comparison of the features can be done:
WoW-- A well documented rulebook, easy to navigate interface, and intuitive gameplay allows the user to easily enter the game, progress, and have fun for their subscription fees.
EVE-- It is complex for the sake of those who want to pay to master the mathematics of dealing damage, taking damage, and earning ISK. No rulebook, with a complicated array of attributed values to nearly every system, combined with many exceptions to basic rules, means that EVE is a technical challenge to play, for those who like technical challenges. However, EVE does have very powerful statistical tools for those who enjoy working with statistics (I personally like the market trends graph).
Genre:
WoW--An action/adventure fantasy title, that offers multiplayer for a recurring bill. Since the action is important, you progress your character by doing actions, and you pay monthly for the ability to do these actions.
EVE--A trading, combat simulation, that offers multiplayer for a recurring bill. Since action is not emphasized, but statistics are, you don't pay so much per month to do actions, but rather, to gain statistics.
They are both successful titles, from what I gather. While WoW's revenue is high, I'm sure their fixed costs are also high. EVE apparently is so successful, CCP has enough money to expand into pen and paper, and trading cards.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
You are right theres nothing stopping people from having 10k usernames and that fact that EvE won anyway means the WoW crowd didnt bother, its a ppopularity contest and WoW could have easily won. The same tool EvE fans used were at your disposal so stop the whining kid. And as i stated neither game is hot in the PVE department cuz tbh As bleak as some may view EvE PVE it is far more indepth than WoWs PVE system, and ofc lets not forget that in the end after everything is all said and done you grinded away months of your life and you get nothing, no one will ever remember you when you leave, your guild left no mark in the WoW world and your gear will mean nothing. Try polaying EvE for the same time u'd play WoW and ull see what im speaking of, and if you have its sad to see you make such remarks. I like both games but WoW simply doesnt offer enough to keep me there.Thank god this thread came along to save us all.
Thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying that people who are actually part of mmorpg.com should be allowed to vote. Be it people who are active on the forum, or people who actually use this website as a news recourse. But not someone who's only intention is to vote for EVE.
You are welcome. PS. don't mistake votes for voters - there were less than 5000 votes cast, you don't know if 5000 seperate individuals voted.
Thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying that people who are actually part of mmorpg.com should be allowed to vote. Be it people who are active on the forum, or people who actually use this website as a news recourse. But not someone who's only intention is to vote for EVE.So you are now saying that MMORPG.COM somehow stopped non eve voters from voting then hmm then your right it was riged
Yes CCP made EVE to make more money but they are the ONLY independent company to be succesful atm and if they trully wanted to market to the masses they could have gone away with many of the things that make the game soo deep. People that label EVE as overly complex are wrong.
In the beginning all the information can seem overwhelming but EVE does have its tools laid out for you to do as you wish, its open ended. In WoW things are more scripted and ofc this is fine but at some point you will reach the endgame and have nothing to do but repeat instances for more gear etc. The reason EvE is soo complex is merely because it gives the player the tools to build an empire as well as destroy one, to make a name for yourself etc. These games a radically different, neither could be labeled as better than the other because better is a matter of perception and people have different tastes.
ANYONE simply making a comment of how EvE sucks this and or that better have at least played the damn game for 6 months to make an ample assesment because even then there are a lot of things to be learnt. Most people here play the trial for 2 days whine how they cant fly a mothership (or lose their frig to someone) and whine about it. Make sure that if your posting about any game no matter which one it is you have truly given the game a chance rather than simply jumping the badwaggon of whiners.
Thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying that people who are actually part of mmorpg.com should be allowed to vote. Be it people who are active on the forum, or people who actually use this website as a news recourse. But not someone who's only intention is to vote for EVE.So you are now saying that MMORPG.COM somehow stopped non eve voters from voting then hmm then your right it was riged
Thats not what I'm saying, please read again.
And there we could stop reading, not to waste another two minutes of our lives on uninformed drivel. Mass marketed... You are calling the most narrow nichegame on the market today, or in fact in MMO history, a mass market aim? Comparing it to WoW?
I was wondering about that 59 in your nick, was it year of borth, or actual age? After reading this, I can only guess its IQ.
I am calling a massive multiplayer online roleplaying game, and by CCP's definition, "The world's largest online universe," simply what it is: a game that needs a massive audience to make the business model and product work as designed.
I mean, they take out full page ads in gaming magazines. They buy ad space on webpages. They have a PR machine, and are branching into new areas to sell EVE to card gamers and pen and paper roleplayers in an attempt to get some crossover sales.
Say my IQ is only 59 all you want man. I could call Taco Bell, KFC, or Arby's "niche" too, but for me to say that Taco Bell is as "niche" as Thai, or Ethiopian cuisine is a stretch.
EVE isn't some MUD with 40 users. Its not even a game that is "niche," when you stop and think of all the MMOs that are not even listed on the sidebar here, yet have forums here. You want to talk niche? Talk Ogre Island, Tantra, or Tale in the Desert. Compared with real niche games, EVE looks about as vanilla as Dairy Queen.
Its a game that has thousands of players from all over the world, who together pay them millions of dollars monthly to play. If the shoe were on the other foot and EVE was the one with 7 million subscribers, do you really think that CCP would think they did something wrong? Or would EVE be "mainstream," and WoW "niche?"
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Beatnik59 The issue is that both games shouldnt be compared at all. Its true that they are both mass market games and that the companies involved are out to make as money. Thats what businessess do. However when ti comes down to it WOWs formula is geared to attract a much larger population (people who never played MMORPGs, people who play games casually, or those who simply got tired of the games they used to play and want to be part of a large gaming community) all of these things are fine. WoW is by no means a bad game, whatever it set out to do it has done it well by far. But a comparison to EvE is inappropiate for many reasons.
EvE is a mass market game but it is not marketed for ALL audiences (like WoW is). It is geared towards the more hardcore crowd, the people who like more complex and indepth experience. It rewards of you take the risks and sometimes you will fall pretty damn hard. WoW as it is meant to be a general audience game is more lax and is by all means a much easier game to play in, the game guides you through more confined stages than EvE would per se. In EvE when you are in for the 1st time CCP leaves the game in your hands and you do as you wish.
These two games are as far apart as day and night, and that is not to say WoW suck by any measure, it simply means that comparing the two is not smart. The arguement of quality vs quantity is also void for the same reasons. EvE WAS made for less people and just because WOW was created to cater to 7m people or more doesnt mean its of lesser quality take in mind that pleasing the 32k active members in EvE is hard enough i couldnt imagine 7m people.
When it comes down to it both sides had the tool to vote as they wished and the EvE community simply showed the most interest in voting, had WoW players botherd to flod the voting polls they could have wont all categories with their eyes closed. Thats the way popularity contests work, whining about the results is futile if both sides had the same oportunities.
Are you seriously telling me that no WoW fanboi has not critisized anything in Eve other than PvE? They trash everything. Why? Because they don't think before they post. If you need proof I can go ahead and whore the forums for quotes and links.
I will admit that the missions do get annoying - which is why I never run them. However if you've played since the latest expansion (Revelations I) then you'll notice that there are now new PvE aspects. Such as exploration/invention. Now there are many hidden complexes (like dungeons but pockets in space) that have to be scanned down, and are quite hard to find. But when you do they're quite fun, all have their own storyline and yield very nice loot (t2 rig bpcs, stuff needed for invention, etc.). So CCP are improving all the aspects on a regular basis.
We see a major expansion at least every half a year and minor ones every 2-3 months, maybe more often. Don't see how WoW compares to that at all. Especially when you take into account that CCP gets about 1.5 million Euros per month from their subscriptions while Blizzard gets over 100 million. PER MONTH. Can you imagine that with Blizzard getting 50-75 times mroe money than the Eve devs they still release expansions at a crapper rate, don't have much forum presence, and have a generally crappier game. It just goes to show how much Blizzard cares about WoW - you can see the money isn't going back into the game, while CCP constantly improve their hardware on that massive server they run, have stemmed into a new server for Chinese players, and have now got about 100 devs working on Eve fulltime.
Difference between WoW and Eve devs is that the Eve devs are all passionate about the game and play it themselves with their own accounts. So they all feel the need to improve and alter parts of the game as much as the players, and answer forum posts. Wow devs..... well they're like normal devs i guess. They only care about their paycheck.
You say that if Eve had 7 million players etc etc. There is no way that Eve will have more players than Wow, until Wow dies ofc and Eve will still be going. And it will eventually happen. People play Eve for years, almost everyone I know who plays Eve never gave up for any reasons other than serious RL issues. While all my friends who've tried out WoW, including myself, got bored of the game after about a week when we realised the huge grind involved and the resemblance of WoW to all the other 5000 fantasy MMOs. In fact i've probably played almost all of the major and non-popular MMORPGs around, mostly on trial, and I can say that Eve is the only game that held me for longer than a month. Been going at ti for three years now. Why? Because there's no "end-game" as there is in WoW or other mainstream games. There is no final level you can reach, because new skills and features for which they are needed are constantly added.
Eve may no longer be niche in terms of the numbers of people playing it, but it's niche in terms of the audience. Mostly mature people with families and professional jobs, who are patient and clever enough to get past the learning curve play Eve, which generally leads to a mostly mature community. Something quite rare in MMORPGs. EVe is also a niche game in terms of it's open endedness, and the near perfect market economy which is fully player driven.
Now please tell me, where have I gone wrong?