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Three types of PvP'ers.
Nerubian
Member Posts: 32
It seems to me that players who PvP in their MMO's fall into 3 main category's.
The true player killer:
This person whether they realise it or not tends to adopt a first person shooter mindset to his mmo's. He wants his own skill to be the defining factor in the outcome of a fight, not class and game mechanics. They want to defeat an opponent or multiple opponents with ease and efficiency using their own ability, they do not like it when they lose because Class A has a skillset specifically to destroy Class C, eg the rock paper scissors system.
Fast paced pvp is usualy desired, whether it be twitch skill, quick tactical decisions of skill use, multi target fighting yada yada yada essentially somewhat fast and furious. Not that slower paced but equally skilled pvp mmo's have any less merit.
Downtime, is the enemy of the true player killer. They do not want to spend 15 minutes running back to the fight after dying this is slow, boring and simply bad game design.
They do not want to have to sit for 3 minutes to regenerate after just one fight because it is again more wasted time for no practical reason.
They do not want overly harsh death penalties and character upkeep once they have reached the level cap and are geared up.
All these take large amounts of the players time AWAY from pvp. The player wants to be killing people, not farming for 5 hours to pay to fix his god damn sword.
Games that were good for this type are Asherons Call and Ultima Online etc.
The part timer:
These people dabble in pvp casually but it is not the primary requisite of the games they play. They like to have a jolly old go at some enemies after a nights raiding/grinding to relax but dont take it seriously or include it in a major part of thier game time.
Games that appeal to this type are EQ, WoW etc.
The masochistic freak (also MM-EMO):
These guys/girls are all over the place, and I consider them to be the lowest value category of PvP'er. They claim to desire hardcore pvp and often bitch about games being to noob or to easy which is symptomatic of their emo nature.
Their idea of 'good' pvp has far less to do with skill but rather punishment. When you die in pvp you should lose all your items, 2 levels of xp, your weapon breaks and generally receive hours of recouperation effort per single death.
According to them this accounts to quality pvp. Quite how they reach the conclusion that high downtime, high maintenence, restrictive movement and a plethora of other penalties is good pvp is quite beyond the rational mind.
Its a disgraceful stereotype but also accurate to say that the asian mmo gaming scene is composed almost entirely of this player type and more importantly game type.
However this bracket specifically refers to western players who have adopted this attitude and mindset, as they voluntarily embrace the concept, where as the asian gamer has the excuse that its simply the game style that he/she has been raised on so prefers it.
Games that are perfect for this type are pretty much every Korean mmo in existence.
That about sums it up. So which category are you?.
The true player killer:
This person whether they realise it or not tends to adopt a first person shooter mindset to his mmo's. He wants his own skill to be the defining factor in the outcome of a fight, not class and game mechanics. They want to defeat an opponent or multiple opponents with ease and efficiency using their own ability, they do not like it when they lose because Class A has a skillset specifically to destroy Class C, eg the rock paper scissors system.
Fast paced pvp is usualy desired, whether it be twitch skill, quick tactical decisions of skill use, multi target fighting yada yada yada essentially somewhat fast and furious. Not that slower paced but equally skilled pvp mmo's have any less merit.
Downtime, is the enemy of the true player killer. They do not want to spend 15 minutes running back to the fight after dying this is slow, boring and simply bad game design.
They do not want to have to sit for 3 minutes to regenerate after just one fight because it is again more wasted time for no practical reason.
They do not want overly harsh death penalties and character upkeep once they have reached the level cap and are geared up.
All these take large amounts of the players time AWAY from pvp. The player wants to be killing people, not farming for 5 hours to pay to fix his god damn sword.
Games that were good for this type are Asherons Call and Ultima Online etc.
The part timer:
These people dabble in pvp casually but it is not the primary requisite of the games they play. They like to have a jolly old go at some enemies after a nights raiding/grinding to relax but dont take it seriously or include it in a major part of thier game time.
Games that appeal to this type are EQ, WoW etc.
The masochistic freak (also MM-EMO):
These guys/girls are all over the place, and I consider them to be the lowest value category of PvP'er. They claim to desire hardcore pvp and often bitch about games being to noob or to easy which is symptomatic of their emo nature.
Their idea of 'good' pvp has far less to do with skill but rather punishment. When you die in pvp you should lose all your items, 2 levels of xp, your weapon breaks and generally receive hours of recouperation effort per single death.
According to them this accounts to quality pvp. Quite how they reach the conclusion that high downtime, high maintenence, restrictive movement and a plethora of other penalties is good pvp is quite beyond the rational mind.
Its a disgraceful stereotype but also accurate to say that the asian mmo gaming scene is composed almost entirely of this player type and more importantly game type.
However this bracket specifically refers to western players who have adopted this attitude and mindset, as they voluntarily embrace the concept, where as the asian gamer has the excuse that its simply the game style that he/she has been raised on so prefers it.
Games that are perfect for this type are pretty much every Korean mmo in existence.
That about sums it up. So which category are you?.
Comments
I like PVP thats done well tbh...
WOW: Great PVP system IMO, fun,fast and well balanced fun classes. I find BG's fun and to me it's more of the CS of RPG PVP.
EVE: Great well done system that really gets your heart beating and if you die it can have a bad effect on your character.
SWG pre cu: Loved the death pen not being too harsh, just makes death social.
Up until a month ago before any BC prep patches I would agree that the game was pretty balanced to an extent inline with their rock paper scissors system. But The Broken Crusade has destroyed all pvp balance at 70 and it will take them 6 months of patches to fix it.
Up until a month ago before any BC prep patches I would agree that the game was pretty balanced to an extent inline with their rock paper scissors system. But The Broken Crusade has destroyed all pvp balance at 70 and it will take them 6 months of patches to fix it.
I dunno people cry way tooo much about the balance, tbh priests got a crap load of talents but i can still own most people in PVP. Thing is most people don't know how to play their class and when your playing against alliance its easier to see that.
I prefer Alliance settings though, most people call you a noob but its much more challenging unless your in AV.
I bet you feel really empowered when you kill some lowbie and lose him 3 hours of XP and take all his items.
Its just so sad that your idea of what constitutes good pvp is so far from the reality.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
I enjoy PVP but it has to be instanced and consensual at all times.
I should only be able to fight people my own level so it's fair.
There should be NO risks or consequences in dying – it’s a game after all!
It should be item based, I mean, I spent months getting that uber item, I’m leet now! Twitch based combat sucks, it means I have to actually have some skills instead of just pressing 64444323 in that order.
It should be level based, if I’m max level I’m leet! All bow down to my skillz.
Did I mention if I Die I should be able to click rez with no consequences AT ALL! I should be able to fight the same person right away, down time is EVIL.
I disagree with the fact that you say that FFA oriented PvP players are against the specific-class-killer things because some games that feature TRUE uniqueness to a character class creation would accidentally feature this "rock paper scissors" system(ala Shadowbane, at least I was able to actually GIMP and later on REBUILD my build if I didnt like it).
I think rock paper scissors works ONLY when you have like 9 classes to chose from and so everyone is a rogue, or a priest, or a mage, or a warrior .... and so on aka Lame WoW PvP.
And yes, Skill should be #1 priority. Come fight me in Wolf ET/BF2142 and I'll own you straight to your face ... or monitor and I dont need any special Raiding/Grind gear to do so.
kthx
WTB Shadowbane 2
There will always be some downtime and risk/loss, its inevitabtle in this type of game and adds spice. The key is not letting it get out of hand.
There is nothing "leet" about having advantage because YOU have spend MORE time killing some mob or were lucky enough to get that 0.000017% drop chance of that sword that no one else has on the server... blah blah.
Shadowbane had the BEST corpse looting system. You keep what ever is equiped on you but you lose what ever is in your inventory. So if you find a good item or have lots of gold on you, you USE RECALL scroll, bank the items/gold, and have a fellow team member SUMMON you back to where you were xping all in about 3-5 mins. Did I mention there is no COOLDOWN on recall scroll? Hearthstones idea is the dumbest thing ever.
Although I agree with you on the fact that there SHOULD be level system in PvP even though there is nothing more I hate than grind. After all, if no one is low level and wont spend time doing (little) grind with some mobs, who will I gank?
kthx
WTB Shadowbane 2
I disagree with the fact that you say that FFA oriented PvP players are against the specific-class-killer things because some games that feature TRUE uniqueness to a character class creation would accidentally feature this "rock paper scissors" system(ala Shadowbane, at least I was able to actually GIMP and later on REBUILD my build if I didnt like it).
I think rock paper scissors works ONLY when you have like 9 classes to chose from and so everyone is a rogue, or a priest, or a mage, or a warrior .... and so on aka Lame WoW PvP.
And yes, Skill should be #1 priority. Come fight me in Wolf ET/BF2142 and I'll own you straight to your face ... or monitor and I dont need any special Raiding/Grind gear to do so.
kthx
I have not played Shadowbane so I cannot comment on it. I have heard from friends it was pretty good though.
Hmm with more thought I can see light at the end of the tunnel for the RPS system. But I have played WoW for the last 2 years and it has left me disillusioned with it. WoW pretty strictly enforces its RPS system and its really to the detriment of the game most of the time.
RPS tends to do worse in a more FFA environment as if you stumble across your anti class alone you have the choice of run away or die. In forced grouping its not so much an issue as you can continually play to your class strength and let others take up your slack. This does make for some quality pvp experience such as BG in WoW. While the majority QQ about BG being crap when you get a pre made vs pre made in relatively equal gear its an extremely tense and difficult battle.
The problem is 1v1 is always a significant factor, it doesnt matter how much you force grouping your always going to have to fight certain classes alone, so even in a predemonitatly good team v team game your going to have issues of getting slaughtered by your counter class. I guess it comes down to, does the team play experience outweigh that.
I think you would fit it under the carebear flag!
As for RPS. WoW is THE example of RPS because the character classes are oversimplified. Sure, talent trees make all characters a little different but when you have only ... what 9 classes? ... and tens of thousands of players on a single server you will have met at least 33% of all characters the same class as you with the EXACT same build.
I used to hate the idea of "gimping" your character but after WoW I actually WANT to be able to gimp my characters just so I wont have to meet #19175821 Divine Shield Palladin who heals himself about 3-4 times while you fighting him 1 vs 1.
Why I think RPS works is, example: (from ... Shadowbane ... yes its all I can think of ... best PvP yet)
Lets say you build a warrior and you will want to put some elemental protection rings/ammulet so the nuker type classes wont do too much damage to you. You can put 2 rings and 1 amulet and you can have 2 elemental protection per ring/ammulet.
So do you want to put:
1. 35% resist fie and 35% resist Holy dmg so you can do good vs fire based Channelers/confessors and holy based Sentinels/Prelates (35% means you get 750 dmg done to you instead of 1000 for example)
but You would be 0% vs lighting/cold/poison/mental
2. of you can put holy based protection with some lighting and perhaps throw in a little of poison
In any case, its YOUR decision and at the end, you sort of end up with RPS because you would do better vs fire mage, but cold mage would be a tough fight.
Sry for long post >_<
WTB Shadowbane 2
I think you would fit it under the carebear flag!
I'm glad someone caught on, yippee!
I bet you feel really empowered when you kill some lowbie and lose him 3 hours of XP and take all his items.
Its just so sad that your idea of what constitutes good pvp is so far from the reality.
What possessed you to make this thread? Because you get rolled time after time by people who don't play by your little code of honor or play according to your rules? People have different tastes as to what constitutes "good PvP" and not you or your ridiculous thread can change that.
Fail.
I found one of these for you on Ebay. There's 6 days left on the auction so keep an eye on it.
Havok, you're acting like a really cocky teenage-douchebag. I'm guessing you have no friends in real life, so you need to use the gameing world to express your inner "coolness" that others just don't recognize. You think you're better because you spent a ton of time grinding away in some random Asian crap-fest just so you could go "PvP" people that stood no chance against you? I'll be you're one of those losers who screams and throws a childish fit at the screen when someone who's a match for you comes along and beats your ganking talent-less ass! It's people like you that make games like Lineage 2, WoW PvP servers, and EQ2 PvP server undesireable. You don't want competition. You want to shoot fish in a barrel with your "uber-geared" pseudo-ninja! They should make a 12-step program for people like you. Either that, or resort to a 12-gauge program (12-gauge shotgun that is, applied directly to you cranium or genitals, your choice).
I had a friend like you in college who like to "PK" people. He thought he was the coolest thing ever when he would wander around L2, dropping people half his level. Only when people would come around and make him pay, causing him to lose his crap, he would start crying like a little baby. In reality he was nothing but a whiney little hard-up mama's-boy. And something tells me you guys wear the same size jock-strap!
"Forgive me" if I come off a little harsh, but I am so sick of you immature little twits getting on here calling people carebears because they don't want you ruining their game with your elitist bullshit. You want "real" PvP that's skill-based, go play a FPS. But something tells me you're only resorting to MMOs because you don't have enough skill not to get killed like a baby goat in Halo2. Good luck in your search for the perfect Asian garbage heap. The rest of us will continue to play games for FUN!
-edit-
I forgive you, but I'm not one of the "little immature twits" you seem to have a vendetta against.
Asian garbage heap? lol, you mean WOW? That's not very nice...you know, there are still quite a few people in the East playing it...though don't ask me why!
coughnoskillneededcough
damn cold makes me coughy ... coffee?
RolePlayingGames must have a place for gankers whether you like it or not because RolePlaying an assassin or some other type of Evil character is part of RPG. Technically all PvP should be FFA because otherwise you are FORCED to "honor" everyone in the game.
WTB Shadowbane 2
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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You my sir, are an ass
))
Apparently there is no golden middle way, in PvP. Get a clue.
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Correcting people since birth.