As far as comparing it to another game, you can't. This is the most complex game out there by far.
More complex or just more painful and confusing due to poorly designed systems?
And those are ?
One example would be soul bound equipment and corpse retrieval. Why bother with soul bound equipment? Just eliminate the corpse runs, same difference. Or go back to the old EQ1 naked corpse runs. Waste of development time when they could have been working on the stuff they are patching in now and had a chance to test on the closed beta. They spent enough time backpedaling on the original design to develop two games, and they still cannot decide which way they want to go. NGE anyone?
Those are simply mechanics YOU don't like. Just so you know, corpse run is an option. You don't need to do them. You can pay to retreive your corpse.
As for SB equipement, it's purpose is if you want to do the corpse run. You will have some equipement to help you get there.
thats my point. No one with a lick of sense is going to do a naked corpse, they will spend the coin to soulbind their equipment. Why notr just have your corpse respawn with equipment and then tag the gravestone. That is good development time that could have been spent on developing content and extra server cycles spent needlessly not to mention extra strain on the databases. Respawning with eq would have done the same thing simpler, it's a dumb ass design.
There are others such as the DAoC EQII/ DAOC style mobs with the dots designations. Who needs that crap. Just use plain old gray, green, blue, white, yellow, orange, red and purple. Either I can take the mob solo or I cannot, no need to add the + and ++ BS. More useless BS that no one other than the Dev who thought it up gives a damn about, all the player cares about is either I can I kill it or will it hand me my arse on a platter.
About corpse run : Because the higher lvl you are, the more it will cost. And more is MORE. So at some point, you only option will be the corpse run. But, if you manage to get the money, they summon... it's not dumb ass design, it's options.
For your 2nd point. The dot system is for group content (but you probably know that lalready, you are an avid player). The more dot, the more people it takes.
A one dot can be "purple" btw... same for 2, 3 and so on.
About corpse run : Because the higher lvl you are, the more it will cost. And more is MORE. So at some point, you only option will be the corpse run. But, if you manage to get the money, they summon... it's not dumb ass design, it's options.
For your 2nd point. The dot system is for group content (but you probably know that lalready, you are an avid player). The more dot, the more people it takes.
A one dot can be "purple" btw... same for 2, 3 and so on.
that still does not answer my question about the soulbound equipment. Why not just have the player respawn with his equipment and give him the option of tagging his gravestone or taking a hit on the experiance. Add in extra repair costs for deaths for a money sink. Serves the same principle in time money sink in a lot simpler manner in design, learning curve and server performance.
Originally posted by Jackdog Originally posted by matraque Originally posted by Jackdog Originally posted by matraque Originally posted by Jackdog Originally posted by MX13 As far as comparing it to another game, you can't. This is the most complex game out there by far.
More complex or just more painful and confusing due to poorly designed systems? And those are ? One example would be soul bound equipment and corpse retrieval. Why bother with soul bound equipment? Just eliminate the corpse runs, same difference. Or go back to the old EQ1 naked corpse runs. Waste of development time when they could have been working on the stuff they are patching in now and had a chance to test on the closed beta. They spent enough time backpedaling on the original design to develop two games, and they still cannot decide which way they want to go. NGE anyone? Those are simply mechanics YOU don't like. Just so you know, corpse run is an option. You don't need to do them. You can pay to retreive your corpse.
As for SB equipement, it's purpose is if you want to do the corpse run. You will have some equipement to help you get there.
thats my point. No one with a lick of sense is going to do a naked corpse, they will spend the coin to soulbind their equipment. Why notr just have your corpse respawn with equipment and then tag the gravestone. That is good development time that could have been spent on developing content and extra server cycles spent needlessly not to mention extra strain on the databases. Respawning with eq would have done the same thing simpler, it's a dumb ass design. There are others such as the DAoC EQII/ DAOC style mobs with the dots designations. Who needs that crap. Just use plain old gray, green, blue, white, yellow, orange, red and purple. Either I can take the mob solo or I cannot, no need to add the + and ++ BS. More useless BS that no one other than the Dev who thought it up gives a damn about, all the player cares about is either I can I kill it or will it hand me my arse on a platter.
Hello Jack,
Long term DAoC player here. Something you may not have considered. The + ++ +++ used in DAoC is for colour-blind people so *they* can distinguish between mobs so they don't get handed their arses on a platter. It's not BS mate. I cannot speak for Vanguard as I haven't as yet played it but that is why the mobs in DAoC have the pluses as well as a colour. I'm guessing Vanguard has adopted a similar method of helping those gamers. Life would be hard for follks who cannot differentiate between green and red .
“Hustlers of the world, there is one mark you cannot beat: the mark inside.”
―
William S. Burroughs
When I was still playing, they were only going by number of dots and color. And yes, I am color blind. Did I whine? No, I sucked it up, took it like a man, and asked politely in the UI mod forums for someone to help me write a UI to make it easier for poor bastards like me to tell how baddly I will get my ass kicked.
I applaud the rapid pace they are pushing out patches... but they are not leaving much time to test this stuff... and the beta forums are going away shortly...
Again, with FREEDOM from raiding, complete freedom, I would play this game. But without raid-free servers and with the current orientation? No thanks. Patches or not.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Hello Jack, Long term DAoC player here. Something you may not have considered. The + ++ +++ used in DAoC is for colour-blind people so *they* can distinguish between mobs so they don't get handed their arses on a platter. It's not BS mate. I cannot speak for Vanguard as I haven't as yet played it but that is why the mobs in DAoC have the pluses as well as a colour. I'm guessing Vanguard has adopted a similar method of helping those gamers. Life would be hard for follks who cannot differentiate between green and red .
You almost convinced me because that makes sense until you realize you still have to consider the color. If you attack a purple 1 dot mob it would still open a large can of whip butt.. For that to be 100% effective for color impaired people they would just use a dot system and no color
I'm glad to see that they're serious about releasing their game. The initiative they're taking to fix problems as quickly and as timely as possible is remarkable. In most cases, I've been able to log on, if I experience a bug and report it, by the next day that problem is no longer a concern. It's tremendous!
However, this also leads me to doubt Sigil's abilities/efforts. I was in this beta awhile back, and there were plenty of bugs than too. I did not see nearly as much attention paid to my problems, nor did I see them apply much haste to remedying the problems.
Nicely said. You would think that if Sigil management had a good handle on their game developement, they would have been making adjustments all along. I don't think they have the luxury of delaying release though, from what I'm hearing they've run out of money. From the inconsistencies I'm seeing in the product, some great, some average, and some neanderthal, I just can't for the life of me figure out what they spent their time/money on? Was the game well planned out from the begining, or were there alot of changes in direction?
Corpse runs are fun. If you're in a place that's too far into a dungeon though you can just buy back your equip. I've found it's very nice to have the choice of going back and losing almost no xp (well unless you die again... playing with the mechanics cost me half a bar) or taking the xp hit and getting equipment back.
Patches have been fast and furious and I think the game should be in decent shape for release. The servers are much more stable now then WoW's were on release.
I won't dispute that VG has it's problems and WoW is a great game but WoW had some very large problems on release that everyone seems to have forgotten about.
For me, the corpse run is no big deal, all those agonizing moments the developers spent on this issue mean zip to me (I know, I've read the Vanguard forums, this game is not for me, why don't I just go and play WOW). Will I do a corpse run, not if I can help it. So I take a hit to my character's experience, BFD. I am not a player that rushes to reach the level cap. After two years of play in EQ 2, my highest level character was level 54. Rather than rush to endgame, I stop and smell the roses. And I expect plenty of roses in a game. I intend to spend a helluva alot of time checking out the begining crafting and diplomacy quests, and leveling those areas up. As well as just generally snooping and pooping around. And all those begining quests better damn well work, or I will be one pissed puppy dog. Immersion.
I also believe any server stability issues will be negligable once SOE servers are utilized. I know, I know, that's a real risky statement on these boards (lol), however SOE does have the server infrastructure issue down pretty darned well in their games.
I am hoping this game will be in decent shape at release. There are alot of facets in this game that really do excite me. However, I am also concerned that, after 5 years of developement and a change in publishers, Sigil has not made the progress in delivering a quality product. Hopefully they are capable of getting their act together.
Originally posted by Jackdog Originally posted by RedRab
Hello Jack, Long term DAoC player here. Something you may not have considered. The + ++ +++ used in DAoC is for colour-blind people so *they* can distinguish between mobs so they don't get handed their arses on a platter. It's not BS mate. I cannot speak for Vanguard as I haven't as yet played it but that is why the mobs in DAoC have the pluses as well as a colour. I'm guessing Vanguard has adopted a similar method of helping those gamers. Life would be hard for follks who cannot differentiate between green and red .
You almost convinced me because that makes sense until you realize you still have to consider the color. If you attack a purple 1 dot mob it would still open a large can of whip butt.. For that to be 100% effective for color impaired people they would just use a dot system and no color
Yep, you're right, now I know exactly how VG:SoH con system works. I made the mistake of assuming, and assumption is the mother of all screw-ups. In DAoC the 'dots' just show indicate the mob level, + for OJ, ++ for red, +++ for grape.
Still you did mention DAoC +++ as being pointless and that's why I replied. The +'s in DAoC are functional. I always thought Mythic deserved credit for doing this. When DAoC launched most folks reckoned the +'s were to indicate relative strengths within a colour, of course we soon learned what the reason was. I remember the first days of play with tons of folks asking 'what do the pluses mean'.
“Hustlers of the world, there is one mark you cannot beat: the mark inside.”
―
William S. Burroughs
makes you wonder what they were doing or not doing during the closed betas doesn't it? Getting around to fixing stuff that should have been done during the year + closed beta before they start charging for it does not deserve a pat on the back.
Only if you are completely clueless. During closed beta they were mostly adding content. Huge freaking heaps of content and if you have really played for 3 months like you claim you would know the staggering amount of content Vanguard has. They jammed it full. Now the entire team is just fixing and tweaking.
It really is staggering how much work they are doing to the client. I got up to 25 fps last night on higest quality, that is an 11fps gain in 2 weeks!!!!! Say something negative about that Jack.
Anarchy -
You blind ignorance is staggering. People are saying the game is empty and anyone running outside start areas will confirm that - WHAT if anything they added in last 3 months as you claim really raises the question as to why it was not added prior to final beta to actually be tested ?
Comments
And those are ?
One example would be soul bound equipment and corpse retrieval. Why bother with soul bound equipment? Just eliminate the corpse runs, same difference. Or go back to the old EQ1 naked corpse runs. Waste of development time when they could have been working on the stuff they are patching in now and had a chance to test on the closed beta. They spent enough time backpedaling on the original design to develop two games, and they still cannot decide which way they want to go. NGE anyone?
Those are simply mechanics YOU don't like. Just so you know, corpse run is an option. You don't need to do them. You can pay to retreive your corpse.
As for SB equipement, it's purpose is if you want to do the corpse run. You will have some equipement to help you get there.
thats my point. No one with a lick of sense is going to do a naked corpse, they will spend the coin to soulbind their equipment. Why notr just have your corpse respawn with equipment and then tag the gravestone. That is good development time that could have been spent on developing content and extra server cycles spent needlessly not to mention extra strain on the databases. Respawning with eq would have done the same thing simpler, it's a dumb ass design.
There are others such as the DAoC EQII/ DAOC style mobs with the dots designations. Who needs that crap. Just use plain old gray, green, blue, white, yellow, orange, red and purple. Either I can take the mob solo or I cannot, no need to add the + and ++ BS. More useless BS that no one other than the Dev who thought it up gives a damn about, all the player cares about is either I can I kill it or will it hand me my arse on a platter.
About corpse run : Because the higher lvl you are, the more it will cost. And more is MORE. So at some point, you only option will be the corpse run. But, if you manage to get the money, they summon... it's not dumb ass design, it's options.
For your 2nd point. The dot system is for group content (but you probably know that lalready, you are an avid player). The more dot, the more people it takes.
A one dot can be "purple" btw... same for 2, 3 and so on.
eqnext.wikia.com
that still does not answer my question about the soulbound equipment. Why not just have the player respawn with his equipment and give him the option of tagging his gravestone or taking a hit on the experiance. Add in extra repair costs for deaths for a money sink. Serves the same principle in time money sink in a lot simpler manner in design, learning curve and server performance.
I miss DAoC
And those are ?
One example would be soul bound equipment and corpse retrieval. Why bother with soul bound equipment? Just eliminate the corpse runs, same difference. Or go back to the old EQ1 naked corpse runs. Waste of development time when they could have been working on the stuff they are patching in now and had a chance to test on the closed beta. They spent enough time backpedaling on the original design to develop two games, and they still cannot decide which way they want to go. NGE anyone?
Those are simply mechanics YOU don't like. Just so you know, corpse run is an option. You don't need to do them. You can pay to retreive your corpse.
As for SB equipement, it's purpose is if you want to do the corpse run. You will have some equipement to help you get there.
thats my point. No one with a lick of sense is going to do a naked corpse, they will spend the coin to soulbind their equipment. Why notr just have your corpse respawn with equipment and then tag the gravestone. That is good development time that could have been spent on developing content and extra server cycles spent needlessly not to mention extra strain on the databases. Respawning with eq would have done the same thing simpler, it's a dumb ass design.
There are others such as the DAoC EQII/ DAOC style mobs with the dots designations. Who needs that crap. Just use plain old gray, green, blue, white, yellow, orange, red and purple. Either I can take the mob solo or I cannot, no need to add the + and ++ BS. More useless BS that no one other than the Dev who thought it up gives a damn about, all the player cares about is either I can I kill it or will it hand me my arse on a platter.
Hello Jack,
Long term DAoC player here. Something you may not have considered. The + ++ +++ used in DAoC is for colour-blind people so *they* can distinguish between mobs so they don't get handed their arses on a platter. It's not BS mate. I cannot speak for Vanguard as I haven't as yet played it but that is why the mobs in DAoC have the pluses as well as a colour. I'm guessing Vanguard has adopted a similar method of helping those gamers. Life would be hard for follks who cannot differentiate between green and red
.
“Hustlers of the world, there is one mark you cannot beat: the mark inside.”
― William S. Burroughs
I applaud the rapid pace they are pushing out patches... but they are not leaving much time to test this stuff... and the beta forums are going away shortly...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I miss DAoC
For me, the corpse run is no big deal, all those agonizing moments the developers spent on this issue mean zip to me (I know, I've read the Vanguard forums, this game is not for me, why don't I just go and play WOW). Will I do a corpse run, not if I can help it. So I take a hit to my character's experience, BFD. I am not a player that rushes to reach the level cap. After two years of play in EQ 2, my highest level character was level 54. Rather than rush to endgame, I stop and smell the roses. And I expect plenty of roses in a game. I intend to spend a helluva alot of time checking out the begining crafting and diplomacy quests, and leveling those areas up. As well as just generally snooping and pooping around. And all those begining quests better damn well work, or I will be one pissed puppy dog. Immersion.
I also believe any server stability issues will be negligable once SOE servers are utilized. I know, I know, that's a real risky statement on these boards (lol), however SOE does have the server infrastructure issue down pretty darned well in their games.
I am hoping this game will be in decent shape at release. There are alot of facets in this game that really do excite me. However, I am also concerned that, after 5 years of developement and a change in publishers, Sigil has not made the progress in delivering a quality product. Hopefully they are capable of getting their act together.
Yep, you're right, now I know exactly how VG:SoH con system works. I made the mistake of assuming, and assumption is the mother of all screw-ups. In DAoC the 'dots' just show indicate the mob level, + for OJ, ++ for red, +++ for grape.
Still you did mention DAoC +++ as being pointless and that's why I replied. The +'s in DAoC are functional. I always thought Mythic deserved credit for doing this. When DAoC launched most folks reckoned the +'s were to indicate relative strengths within a colour, of course we soon learned what the reason was. I remember the first days of play with tons of folks asking 'what do the pluses mean'.
“Hustlers of the world, there is one mark you cannot beat: the mark inside.”
― William S. Burroughs
Only if you are completely clueless. During closed beta they were mostly adding content. Huge freaking heaps of content and if you have really played for 3 months like you claim you would know the staggering amount of content Vanguard has. They jammed it full. Now the entire team is just fixing and tweaking.
It really is staggering how much work they are doing to the client. I got up to 25 fps last night on higest quality, that is an 11fps gain in 2 weeks!!!!! Say something negative about that Jack.
Anarchy -
You blind ignorance is staggering. People are saying the game is empty and anyone running outside start areas will confirm that - WHAT if anything they added in last 3 months as you claim really raises the question as to why it was not added prior to final beta to actually be tested ?
FUNCOM - putting the FUN in disFUNctional !