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Allow me to be the first to call this vaporware
Amathe
Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
I know this is an unpopular opinion. No doubt I will be reviled for offering it. I don't blame you really, because I had high hopes and expectations for this title too.
But seriously, all the signs are there:
1. It's been in development for a loooooong time. Some have said 12 years. Too long to be taken seriously anymore.
2. Beta time frames have been offered and retreated from, with no new ones given now.
3. It has a projected launch period that is pure fiction. There is no way on Earth this game launches this year.
4. They had a big ad campaign with lots of articles, etc., at a time when the game was nowhere near beta, but that corresponded with the sale of the Hero engine.
5. The game has gone dark in terms of updates, etc. after the sale of the Hero engine.
6. Did I mention they sold a license of a proprietary engine BEFORE they launched their own game using it?
7. They have a highly unorthodox hiring system of "employees", taking people off message boards and having them work remotely for free (or upon future promises).
8. They don't seem to be able to keep their employees, since they are always looking for new ones.
9. Most importantly, they obviously don't have the financing needed to make a game this expensive, and after a very long time no one has stepped up to provide that financing or partner with them.
10. There isn't now, nor will there ever be, enough income from a MUDD to fund a project of this magnitude, so they can't go it alone.
11. They have made very little progress from one trade show to the next in terms of the state of the "game."
12. They admittedly don't have the time or resources to update their website! If they can't manage that, how are they going to produce something as huge as an mmo?
This is Mourning all over again. This game will never launch. If it does, I will apologize profusely, but I don't ever expect to have to make good on that promise. Expect an announcement this year that the game is being shelved.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Comments
You call 3 doodles of concept art an update? I mean, there's nothing wrong with concept art, but if you think that's any serious indication that a game is ongoing I will post three of my drawings and you can believe I'm going to release a mmorpg.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
12 is the only of his replies you have a counter point to? You must not have a very strong case if your only real issue is that they're not updating the site enough. Based on your original post, it looks like you have heard most of your info from a friend's brother's cousin.You call 3 doodles of concept art an update? I mean, there's nothing wrong with concept art, but if you think that's any serious indication that a game is ongoing I will post three of my drawings and you can believe I'm going to release a mmorpg.
2.) that is true... Bethesda is widely known for doing the same, never prevented them from creating amazing games
3.) Same as point 2, simply restated a different way as it is obvious that beta comes before release. AS such a worthless argument.
4.) This has been explained by Simutronics. Rather than waste time advertising before they know for sure when the game will be released, they are laying off the advertising as to prevent more of the "this games never coming out!" that they currently have. Expect a marketing blitzkrieg before or during beta.
5.)again a point that is absurdly similar to the previous, maybe this ought to be a 10 point statement.
6.) how is that a negative...? It just means that there engine is so impressive that Bioware a huge video game manufacturer didn't feel they needed a final product from Simu before purchasing.
7.) Again, unorthodox not necessarily bad.
8.) go to heroeshall.com you will find that most of the GM's are still GM's there. If the game were being vaped, one of them would surely have spilled the beans by now.
9.) Contradictory to your previous statement regarding the sale of their engine, I don't know how cheap you think an engine is... but whatever your assumption it is likely very wrong
10.) another "point" that is Identical to the previous. And again is contradictory to the sale of their engine.
11.) Based on what? E3 two years ago showed some very basic charecter creation tools, and combat. last E3 showed off more in way of quests, flight animations, larger scale areas, basic hunting zones.
12.) this is the only point I feel has some truth. However they obviously have the resources, as it would only take one GM a very minimal amount of time to do a basic update. However they obviously feel that once a month is adaquate enough till they get closer to launch.
Neclord--UO (deceased)
Josco--SWG (deceased)
Waiting for STO?
12 is the only of his replies you have a counter point to? You must not have a very strong case if your only real issue is that they're not updating the site enough. Based on your original post, it looks like you have heard most of your info from a friend's brother's cousin.You call 3 doodles of concept art an update? I mean, there's nothing wrong with concept art, but if you think that's any serious indication that a game is ongoing I will post three of my drawings and you can believe I'm going to release a mmorpg.
This is not a debate. I posted my opinion. Other people are entitled to theirs. Frankly I thought the other responses didn't warrant a rebuttal. But saying there has been an "update" was misleading to people who don't know how minimal it was.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
So you decide when and if I am in a debate? Lol.
I don't happen to share your view that just because someone disagreed with something I said imposes upon me a duty to respond. Nor does my lack of response mean my position is any less accurate. If I say 2+2 = 4 and you say "nuh uh, noob" i don't see I need to continue that dialogue, and it's still 4.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
They have THEIR engine been used by BioWare.
They built an engine, this take some time, other devs just take an existing engine and work on the game itself, some built everything.
Will HJ see the light? I don't know. It take quite different qualities to build a MMO or an engine for a MMO. Maybe they possess both, maybe they don't... Microsoft was not able to do well in both fields, other companies might be, but...it seem to be quite a task to achieve.
At any rate, I still have some interest and if they continue I will consider buying it. Of course, BioWare will be competing with them, which is a win/win scenario for them, but that is quite some serious competition! Just imagine having Blizzard using the same technology that you are and competing with you...If BioWare create the next WoW (which I think they will), I am sure HJ will see the light. Maybe after BioWare release it MMO, but their goal is to release their dream, and helping BioWare in the way is certainly a bonus in everyway! Peoples would kill to be in WoW's shadows today, HJ won't have to kill anyone to be in BioWare's shadow in the worst case scenario. Every effort they put in the engine, benefit 2 titles I am considering buying, which is great!
Is HJ vaporware? Their engine must be real if BioWare buy it.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
So you decide when and if I am in a debate? Lol.
I don't happen to share your view that just because someone disagreed with something I said imposes upon me a duty to respond. Nor does my lack of response mean my position is any less accurate. If I say 2+2 = 4 and you say "nuh uh, noob" i don't see I need to continue that dialogue, and it's still 4.
you are using faulty logic here. 2+2=4, is a fact. Your opinions, are at best loosely based upon rumor, and falsehoods. Where as counterpoints have been offered to your (for all intensive purposes) lies, using facts. I know this is a difficult subject. Together though we can try to turn you into a productive poster rather than a waste of space. Not that you will reply to this, as it is far too "factual" for your taste.Neclord--UO (deceased)
Josco--SWG (deceased)
Waiting for STO?
There is NO justification whatsoever to give the engine your flagship product will be based on, to a competition. Essentially you are allowing the competitor to make a product just as good(and with bioware, you bet they will make it good), to compete with yourself. Even more troubling is your own product has not been released yet, and this licensing will DELAY it further giving even a bigger advantage to bioware.
To me it's all signs of desparation for funding, i mean short of project cancellation i dont think any company would choose to give away their top secret core asset.
And no it doesnt matter if bioware is making star wars or fallout, they could make power rangers online for all i care.. All mmorpg compete with each other, especially so when two are based on the same engine.
But this is good news for us gamers, even if hero's journey turns out to be vaporeware at least you know bioware will show off the HJ engine in their game.
Simutronics has never explained why they ended the info flow they had before last E3. Last press release (from E3) announced beta at end of 2006 and game release mid 2007. Suddenly, at the end of last year, we could read the insulting (to the community) words; "woops, did we say that? sorry, no beta for you guys!"
And it was from HJ lead designer
Give me a source if i missed it. I do check pretty much all sites talking about HJ but never see any official words from Simutronics.
A few offsite GM's has tried with a couple of "Theres to much to do", but offsite GM's shouldnt be takes as official words from Simutronics, they stats that every time.
The reason of 6month drawback is a fan community theory. Simutronics never admitted the heroes engine was a priority, they allways claimed Heros journey development as untouched during the Bioware business, but the community found that hard to believe.
So, should we expect a mid 2007 release? Probably not, especially if they gonna have time for a proper beta. But we should expect a nicer way to push release forward, not just the words "Woops, did we say mid 2007?"
oh, and btw, HJ was shown at simucon 2003 and simucon 2004. So if they had something to show at 2003, I guess its abit older then 3 years.
__________________________
Reality is for people who lack imagination
2 - Big deal - companies change their time frames all the time. Many don't even tell you , just say it will be done when its done.
3 - Again so what? Is the world ending this year? So are you saying any game that doesn't launch this year is vapourware?
6 - Fantastic - Bioware are using their engine - that means their technology works and well enough for other companies to use it.
7 - Lol
8 - You aren't their shareholder - so they have no need to reveal their financial circumstances to you.
9 - They have an engine, plus all the technology required to run the servers and do the billing - that means they don't need a Sony or an NCSoft for game deployment, and I can see they wouldn't want someone else funding the game, as that means when the game comes out a big ongoing royalty would go back to that person.
Sure that might mean their funding is tight, and therefore the game is taking longer to produce than someone who gets a big funding up front.
But again - unless they file for bankruptcy your point - what was your point?
10 - How about some facts instead of your opinions? They have more than one Mudd, and have been in business for quite a few years in the online gaming industry.
11 - They got lots of awards and nice write ups on their character customization. From gaming sites whose credentials seem more impressive than your opinion.
12 - So you are here on the boards slandering their game - but you will apologize if your are wrong. Hmmm thats very big of you.
I would just like to say I am impressed with the mature community following the game.
I say the following with all sincerity, STOP playing games and go to business school! You have NO clue what your talking about! Zero.
Jonny
I say the following with all sincerity, STOP playing games and go to business school! You have NO clue what your talking about! Zero.
Jonny
That was my reaction when I read his post. What BETTER way to attract investors than to be able to advertise that your game engine will be used by one of the most respected companies in the computer gaming industry?- How can you talk if you haven't got a brain?
- I don't know, but some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't they?
BioWare is not just "a competitor". It is walking gods among devs in the RPGs universe! Blizzard are looking toward BioWare with an intense gaze, already trying to counter the MMO who will most likely take the lion's share from WoW (assuming WoW last that long)! BioWare are Gods! BioWare knows that Blizzard work slowly, so the later they get info on their new MMO, the later Blizzard can adapt. Don't expect much information, you will prolly get a LOT of information about 1 year prior release and critical design information will come during open beta, not before! Assuming there is open beta! BioWare will most certainly flood us with stuff about quest, story driven and so on, but design goodies, they will keep these secrets as long as they can.
The raiding madness is ending(tm).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Elvenangel,
I’ve been a long time subscriber of Simutronics games as well, dating back to 1994 through GEnie and later AOL and then Play.net. Hero’s Journey development has definitely been an ongoing topic for around a decade now. Some suggest that development started, stalled and was dropped, and has started up again in the last few years with a wholly new direction. I’ve never seen comments confirming this to the letter, but I can confirm that the glimpses of Hero’s Journey we see now are completely different than the screenshots of what they were originally working on (and thank goodness for that!).
Simutronics HAS also partnered with other companies before. Gemstone II (launched in 1988) was based around the village of Squire’s Bluff, but Simutronics partnered with Iron Crown Enterprises (often referred to as I.C.E.) for Gemstone III (launched 1990). The relationship lasted about five years and Gemstone III went through what their community has always referred to as the ‘deICEing’ and was upgraded again in 1996 (this was the effort to remove all ICE lore and names from Gemstone as it moved forward, for instance, the central town known as Kelfour’s Landing became Wehnimer’s Landing, the planet called Kulthea became Elanthia, etc.).
Simutronics also partnered with Universal Studios to some degree on the product ‘Hercules & Xena: Alliance of Heroes’ during the height of the popularity of the Hercules and Xena TV shows in the mid-90’s. I’m not sure what became of that relationship, but the game has since been re-titled simply ‘Alliance of Heroes’ and soldiers on despite its small subscription numbers.
I wish Simutronics would consider a Station-like account plan that would allow access to all its games. Modus Operandi is actually a really cool game I’d probably play occasionally if I didn’t have to pay for another account subscription to do it on top of the premium subscriptions I already have for Gemstone IV and DragonRealms.
You mean like id (Quake, Doom), Valve (Half Life) and Epic (Unreal) are in such financial trouble? These are three of the most successful and profitable gaming companies out there and most of that money comes from licensing out their engine and tools.
1. They do not communicate well (or, from your description, at all) with their customers
and
2. They don't keep to anything like a schedule.
Is this supposed to get me all excited about them running an MMORPG -- where some of the most common complaints by the customers are that the bigger, reviled companies like SOE don't communicate and don't keep to their release schedule?
C
I stand corrected then. But you have to admit even with these partnerings its very different than say Sigil with SOE's partnering.
As for simutronics being uncommunicative..the product isn't released they don't have to tell us anything. I never had a problem with customer service when I played their MUDS unlike say some of the MMORPGS where they ignore serious issues to avoid possible blame.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
I also agree that Simu staff is generally decently communcative with their MUD products. My experience both on their forums and calling the company for various things about my accounts over the years has always been good.
That's partially why I'm somewhat concerned about the steep drop off and very intermittent communication about Hero's Journey. It just seems odd that there isn't consistent dialogue with the developers regardless of the stage the game might be in right now.
Well if they do need a company to burn the cd's, handle servers etc - I hope they go with NCSoft.
Being a former designer for Simutronic's Hero Journey, I agree with the OP. It was a huge project about 2yrs ago, I'm sure there is still development but like me and most others we got laid-off when they needed to down-size because they realized they couldn't pay everyone. Instead they started to sell the engine itself, which was a great idea to keep the development going, but that wasn't the purpose. I see Hero's Journey only being a tech demo to the engine and nothing else, nothing big has been done since I was forced out a yr and a half ago.
Interesting,
Thats the conclusion I came to early last year. Once they announced they were licensing out the engine, I figured the game was no longer a priority and it probably would never release.
Where are all those GM's that use to spam here last year?
/shrug, oh well
Cemm pretty much nailed it. I started playing Gemstone (and for a while DR) back on GEnie as well, in 1993. I remember when Tom Zelinksi was made producer of Hero's Journey. That was years ago. Then Melissa was made producer, along with her job as producer for GS. She's no longer with Simutronics. She and her husband, Matt (GM-Skunky), both quit and moved to California last year. They both work for other MMO's now. I don't know who is the current producer of HJ. I don't hold out much hope for it ever being completed. I've been waiting a very long time.
As much as I respect Elonka and some of the other people there, Simutronics suffers mightily from having a certain individual at the helm. Frankly, I think most of Simu's games started their long decline when Suz Dodd left, may she rest in peace. As producer of GS, she was the heart and soul behind the game. She loved the games and the community and it showed. Without her, the games all became just ghosts of their formers selves, in spite of the numbers.
Maybe I'm completely wrong and HJ will actually be finished. I hope so. I just won't be holding my breath.