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Lvl cap still 60 unless you get BC...
Secrom
Member Posts: 318
Greetings.
I started playing WoW when it came out in Europe (Feb 05), coming from DAoC that I left because of buffbots and ToA. I just couldn't understand that performance in PvP should be influenced by the amount of money one put in a game. I wanted a solid and fair PvP environment.
After a year and a half I quit WoW since it didn't live up to my expectations (read "gear is pretty much everything" and "what matters is how MUCH you play, not how WELL you play").
Still I missed my characters (they feel like your own babies ya know?) so I kept an eye on the changes BC would bring and the prospect of a levelled playfield.
Yet I wasn't planning on getting it at all. Not interested in new content (since it's mostly PvE).
Back then, the FAQ mentioned rather loosely that "A lot of features will be available to those who don't own the expansion but to enjoy the new content blablabla".
And now the sentence has been changed to: "There will be a number of features in The Burning Crusade that will only be available to expansion owners. To name a few: the two new races, the ten new levels of experience (level 60-70), all of the new zones, and the new profession Jewelcrafting."
So let's see:
- New zones? I'm not interested... I don't mind, it offers more choice and I find it normal that I can't access them
- New races? Still not interested... I don't mind, it offers more choice and I find it normal that I can't access them
- Jewelcrafting? Nopers... I don't mind, it offers more choice and I find it normal that I can't access them
However: no higher level cap???
Seriously, to me that's pretty much like saying: Hey if you don't blindly buy our x-pacs no matter what we don't care about you, but keep paying your subscription will ya?
Reading a few threads on the matter, I was left rather dumbfounded by the amount of replies in the lines: "Stop complaining and buy the expansion, problem solved".
Seriously, since when are expansions implicitly mandatory? "It's been done before" isn't an argument sorry... "Done before" and "right thing to do" are completely different concepts.
I really believe this is a huge mistake from Blizzard, most probably because they don't want to bother about updates for anything else than their latest addition.
Anyway I'd like to ask you, is there anyone else out there thinking the same way?
I started playing WoW when it came out in Europe (Feb 05), coming from DAoC that I left because of buffbots and ToA. I just couldn't understand that performance in PvP should be influenced by the amount of money one put in a game. I wanted a solid and fair PvP environment.
After a year and a half I quit WoW since it didn't live up to my expectations (read "gear is pretty much everything" and "what matters is how MUCH you play, not how WELL you play").
Still I missed my characters (they feel like your own babies ya know?) so I kept an eye on the changes BC would bring and the prospect of a levelled playfield.
Yet I wasn't planning on getting it at all. Not interested in new content (since it's mostly PvE).
Back then, the FAQ mentioned rather loosely that "A lot of features will be available to those who don't own the expansion but to enjoy the new content blablabla".
And now the sentence has been changed to: "There will be a number of features in The Burning Crusade that will only be available to expansion owners. To name a few: the two new races, the ten new levels of experience (level 60-70), all of the new zones, and the new profession Jewelcrafting."
So let's see:
- New zones? I'm not interested... I don't mind, it offers more choice and I find it normal that I can't access them
- New races? Still not interested... I don't mind, it offers more choice and I find it normal that I can't access them
- Jewelcrafting? Nopers... I don't mind, it offers more choice and I find it normal that I can't access them
However: no higher level cap???
Seriously, to me that's pretty much like saying: Hey if you don't blindly buy our x-pacs no matter what we don't care about you, but keep paying your subscription will ya?
Reading a few threads on the matter, I was left rather dumbfounded by the amount of replies in the lines: "Stop complaining and buy the expansion, problem solved".
Seriously, since when are expansions implicitly mandatory? "It's been done before" isn't an argument sorry... "Done before" and "right thing to do" are completely different concepts.
I really believe this is a huge mistake from Blizzard, most probably because they don't want to bother about updates for anything else than their latest addition.
Anyway I'd like to ask you, is there anyone else out there thinking the same way?
Comments
Secrom,
I suppose that it's Blizzard's game to decide what they will allow or disallow. I'm not sure if restricting the level cap to 70 without the expansion pack is right or wrong, although I know that the original game to 60 is still a blast and that there's lots of fun and interesting things still left to do even if you don't have the Burning Crusade addition.
Trellot
Unfortunately, my mains are on a PvP server. And running around in contested territory with a character wearing random blues vs a fully fledged T2 and what not wasn't a nice sight back then... I don't even want to imagine vs a lvl 70 in one of the new stuff.
__________
Ever wondered what a hardcore WoW raider looked like?
R.I.P. Laura "Taera" Genender
LOL! I've always wanted to try one of the PvP servers, but I simply can't understand the fun in getting ganked for thirty minutes straight at times. So basically I can' t really comment about your experience as I have not played on a PvP server.
Trellot
So do you think you should be able to make a Draenei Shaman even thought you don't have TBC expac?
Being able to level beyond 60 is a feature of TBC not WoW. I don't understand how you could expect to get something that you were never offered...
/boggle
Even if Blizzard allowed people to gain levels, I doubt you would be able to reach the new level cap from the old world. So what's the point anyways?
As for jewels, you are wrong in the sense that it plays a big role in the way that it shapes your armor. Are you maybe one of those guys that are running around with no enchants or basic enchants wondering how the raid people (enchanted to the max and sometimes with good use of consumables) can be so overwhelming? Now imagine another layer of armor and weapon upgrades, more powerful than enchants, in the form of jewels. Do you think they are so useless now?
WoW (the original) is a nice game but only if you take advantage of it's full features. For example I can understand people that can feel that it's boring, if they skip all the quests and play it like Lineage2, by just killing monsters. You have the freedom to do it, doesn't exactly make it fun though. In that sense, there is still alot of meat in the original gameplay. With the expansion however, you are denied alot more things that were commonplace in the end game. Suddenly level 60 became what level 50 was pre-expansion.
Besides, if it's a matter of money, I'm glad WoW is not controlled by Sony, else you would pay for any tiny patch of land introduced in the game.
This is a big update in the game world, it doesn't break the game mechanics like alot of other expansions do out there and hopefully it offers as much value as the original did (for those who don't need artificial grind barriers in order to explore the content).
Read again what I wrote.
__________
Ever wondered what a hardcore WoW raider looked like?
R.I.P. Laura "Taera" Genender
So the "buy it or you're an utter gimp" policy is perfectly ok? This is totally nuts...
__________
Ever wondered what a hardcore WoW raider looked like?
R.I.P. Laura "Taera" Genender
I've been 60 for more than a year. I do not have time to level multiple alts but I have been pretty thorough with that one character of mine. Now that an expansion comes out (that is not game breaking), I'm certainly glad and I have already bought it and enjoying it. So the problem was not whether I should buy it or not, the problem would be if it altered the way the game plays that I would feel I was playing another game (happened too often in the past).
In my eyes these are not two different games, it's one. The world has just been expanded recently, but it's one world. I may be nuts but I still can't see the point you're trying to make.
---
Apparently... It's just sad.
__________
Ever wondered what a hardcore WoW raider looked like?
R.I.P. Laura "Taera" Genender
My point is that the expansion isn't an option, but a mandatory purchase, for someone who has expectations when it comes to PvP even though they aren't interested in the majority of the content.
__________
Ever wondered what a hardcore WoW raider looked like?
R.I.P. Laura "Taera" Genender
Thanks for very a deep and constructive post.
__________
Ever wondered what a hardcore WoW raider looked like?
R.I.P. Laura "Taera" Genender
But they are in the market to make money.......
- Level cap is now 70, not 60. Most of the players competing will be there.
- Itemisation difference will be bigger. There are alot more stamina oriented gear in the expansion. Coupled with the more powerful enchantments and the jewel armor and weapons and you're way out of your league, even if you do go against another level 60, expansion enabled player.
- The whole PvP system is now different (better imo). You no longer lose standing with inactivity time, you don't have to be unemployed to have a change to get the best PvP gear. It just takes longer.
In other words, the original game still holds it's value as a PvE game (what drew me to it and what interests me the most personally), but the PvP became obsolete once the new level cap was established. Then again, PvP for me is an added bonus, not a game breaking feature, so I understand why you can be upset about it.
what do you then propose the people with/without expansion be able to access?
you say the two new races should be availabel to everyone. that's one.
what about outland? level 60-70 zones. that's two. a HUGE #2.
what about new PVP content in form of new battleground, world PVP (in outland) and Arena system. that's three
and new profession jewelcrafting? that's four
So the four biggest things the expansion contains, though the 2nd mentioned (Outland) is a huge chunk of content.... You would say that half or even three of the four should be available to everyone? the title of the post is that level cap still 60 unless you get BC, so you let everyone play outland for free, including all the content and zones and up to level 70 then what is left in expansion to purchase?
2 new races, a new profession, arena system. that's it. because everything else is in outland which you want to give people for free.
giving the 2 new races, new profession, and arena system to players for free and making purchase BC for Outland (for 60-70) would make a lot more sense, but still, still not enough sense to be economically smart for Blizzard.
I think you are just mad about having to pony up 40 bucks.
and to the 2nd poster who said "my mains are on a PVP server. And running around in contested territory with a character wearing random blues vs a fully fledged T2 and what not wasn't a nice sight back then... "
if you can't handle the competitive environment of a PVP server, then transfer servers. that is why you CAN transfer off of PVP servers to PVE servers.
it's sad? ummmm hello? what company in the history of all things would be stupid enough to NOT go with the desires and opinions of the vast majority of their players? it'd be suicide not to. Sorry you don't feel important and represented, but you don't have to pay for and play a game you don't like. But please don't mock Blizzard for doing what every single company would do. Show me a compay who won't listen to the vast majority of their players in order to please the majority of them. I'm sure you can find an example or two. Now where are their MMORPG's now? At 8 million subscribers? I think not.
I just think it's sooo silly people blame Blizzard for being intelligent in their business practices. They've delivered and continue to deliver an amazing MMORPG, the best out there, and made a lot of money doing it. If the game sucked, they would not have been so successful. Duh
Actually Heerobya I think all the OP was saying that he didnt care or want the things you mentioned (race, class, jewel stuff, outland) to be open to people who didnt buy the expansion. He accepts that for those new things it is right and proper that the expansion be pruchased.
He was saying only the level cap raise to 70 should be open to all and not dependant on purchasing the expansion pack.
Now either you misread, misconstrued, mis-interpreted his post.... or I did the same to yours.
Originally posted by shukes33
Grind is not one of the downfalls of DF it is just a feature.
ya I'm not sure who misread who anymore.... lol
but, it would be impossible or nearly so to raise the level cap to 70 without opening up access to Outland. I think there is a six level difference cap on experience, so you'd stop gaining any xp for killing anything in Azeroth except for some bosses/raid mobs once you got to like level 66. And it'd take absolutely forever without the new quests/higher level mobs available in Outland to even get to level 66
Thanks Arun. Yes that's what I meant.
Heerobya, I really don't know how you got it all wrong, maybe too much of my editing screwed up the sentences in the first post.
So yes, new ground to explore, new races etc. incur direct and heavy development costs, so OF COURSE they should be expansion specific.
Yet again, it's about having more CHOICE, meaning it doesn't impair someone's PvP potential per se (that does not include gear).
As for the following post: my bad, I should have highlighted the part of your sentence I was referring to. In that case the firt sentence (Vote with your dollar, however in the case of Blizzard I don't think they care.).
Now, back to the level cap... Honestly, does it cost a lot to revamp some loot tables and add 10 to a handful of variables (max level, talent points...)? I think not. In any case, much less that pulling out 40-man instances like they've only done for the past months.
What I think would happen if they did so: People who don't get BC at once will know they will have a harder time getting to lvl 70, they'll have to stick to areas they know like their pocket, and yet they know they aren't left down in the dust, they can get BC later and take a breath of fresh air. That's "carrot incentives". What did Blizzard do instead? Pretty much pull a gun on the head of reticent customers, buy or run around with "Free HK" tatooed all over your face. Those are "stick incentives".
DAoC/Mythic had "stick incentives" too, check out their server population history when WoW came out, and all the desperate measures that ensured to try and patch the hemorrhage. Ass-kissing style, really. So probably not the way to go.
There are quite a few posts about level cap decrepency on the European official fora. No blue post (surprise, surprise) yet all kind of answers that show how trully selfish and unsupportive the WoW community has become.
Tell me, if the new content and additions of BC are as good as people make it sound, shouldn't it be enough to make the player base take the decision to get it when they feel the time is right?
Also please enlighten me on what's so freaky about asking for a moderately fair playground for everybody?
__________
Ever wondered what a hardcore WoW raider looked like?
R.I.P. Laura "Taera" Genender
The gap is 12 levels at level 60, and even higher at level 70. You can be level 60, kill a level 48 mob and get experience for it. Now, you'll only get like 50 XP, which admittedly isn't much worth discussing, but if they did allow people to get to 70, it could certainly be done.
To the OP: The whole point of raising the level cap was that they didn't like where the 60-game had taken them, and wanted to bring their priorities back into focus. Moving everything up 10 levels allowed them to do this, and you should either accept that you won't be competitive and play anyways, or give in and purchase the expansion, or just quit altogether.
Why does it need to be deep? Huh? You think you guys have a point here that needs detailed debate? You don't. What he says is completely true - doesn't need to have the pointless rhetoric you haters have when you have no real facts to back your whining up. The fact that so many people are blaming Blizzard for what is STANDARD PRACTISE for most level-based MMOs is a good reason for the BRICK IN THE FACE bluntness.
Welcome to MMOs, newbs. BRICK IN TEH FACE!
8000000 peeps have too much fun to argue yet they come and troll fora, trashtalk all they can without making any sensible argument, and feel all tough hiding behind they avatar/nickname/keyboard while polishing their oversized ego in the process.
/golfclap
Tip of the day: if you don't care, don't reply.
"Standard practice", "It's been done before"... Same all pointless junk again.
Meh, not gonna waste more time trying to educate you.
__________
Ever wondered what a hardcore WoW raider looked like?
R.I.P. Laura "Taera" Genender
Resigned to it too? Aww come on...
__________
Ever wondered what a hardcore WoW raider looked like?
R.I.P. Laura "Taera" Genender
asking for a moderately fair playground for everyone is great in theory but how do you do it?
that's the big question.
how do you not reward people for dedication? how do you not punish people for playing casually?
these are the questions Blizzard had in mind when they created WoW, hence why you see the rest system, a MMO first.
Hence you have raids/pvp content geared towards the more dedicated player, but an easier and more casual leveling system.
what is your idea on how to make it better?
actually his point there wasn't about enchants or jewelcrafting, but simply that (at least until recently) a tier3 raiding character was by far superior than anything a non-raider could get - enchants and consumables or not.
As far the original topic, i'm not sure if i agree or not. I think it's normal that they dont raise the level cap in the original, but that doesn't mean i have to like it. In the end, BC is just a (really big) patch you pay for. Sure, development costs, but the monthly fees more than cover that. From a business point of view though it's pretty much an extra 2.5 monthly fees for a disc and some card board.
Isn't it a moot point anyway? You still wouldn't get the new BG, you wouldn't get a decent levelling area, and couldn't get into the arena. Assuming level 70 pvp gear counts as "BC only content", you wouldn't even have any 60+ gear to wear...