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Every known upcoming mmorpg will suck tbh...
End_of_a_era
Member Posts: 527
This genre lacks innovation tbh, i blame it mainly due to the cost of running a mmorpg and theres no SDK for the modders. I wish one company like Valve would have released a mmorpg with a SDK allowing you to create your own models and armor + creating your own dungeons and submit them in contests for content in the game.
Innovation is what this genre needs and opening the game up more to the public is how to go about it tbh, most ideas come from normal modders. Take CS for example, that started off as a mod and it's now the most popular online FPS ever!
For me it's Innovation,polish and community care + No IP's, they can't work on a mmorpg.
So basically the best example of what not to do is SWG.
Comments
Everyother mmorpg = flop
AOC = flop (you can tell this by the poor animations and art and the fact it's still not clear on what the devs idea of the game is)
Gods and Heores = Flop
Huxley = flop
Hero's Journey = flop
LOTRO = flop
POTBS= flop
STO = flop
Stargate = flop
Vanguard = flop
WAR = not sure.
Mark my words people.
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Do I ever sleep?
I was all set to blast ya because of all the anti-mmorpg post you have been making but....you are right IMHO. When I play any other PC game the first thing I look for is a strong mod or customization community. NWN and now NWN2 (yes, there is a large NWN2 mod community popping up with many PW in the works. http://nwvault.ign.com/ dispite what a few people have posted here) Morrowind is still going strong as is the Oblivion mod community.....the list goes on and on..........
Overall mmorpgs are going to have serious problem with longevity mainly because they are very limited in the creativity that is put into them since the community can not change or impact them. Other types of PC games do not have this problem. There are mods and assorted variations for almost any decent PC game you can think of. Manwhile in MMO's we are stuck and at the whim of a handful of industry devs who basically have been there from the beginning of the genre and coninue to make games they way they see it. Vanguard is a classic example. That Brad guy ran a MUD, helped create EQ and is STILL pushing his "vision" down the players throats. You can see that in the older MMO's actually dying. How old is CS? And its still alive and well? Hell, there is still a huge Starcraft community out there. I ran across an "X-Wing alliance" mod community just last week.....half life, half life2, unreal...the list goes on forever of strong mod communities...
I'm not nearly as pessimistic as you and I don't think all those games you listed will "flop" but I agree that they are extreamly limited in scope mainly because "they are what they are" and you have no real say in anything that goes on. In other PC games you do: You can "mod" them.
MMO's are played by people with very active imaginations but they are made and completely controlled by a very small handful of people who do not. MMO's over the last 10 years have been a parade of the same old thing. Elves and Dwarves killing Orcs and Goblins while collecting rat tails for the village idiot while gaining a "level" and some new loot...... *sigh* so much potential is so close but at the same time...so far away.
On the other hand, Ryzom is allowing player made content and that didn't exactly "revolutionize" MMO's in the communities opinion, although its an excellent idea. I wonder how it is going??? One thing I do sort of think is MMO players don't want to "do it themselves" they want the devs to hand them everything.
Look at any MMO board, its all people pissing and moaning about some aspect of a game or another. You don't see that in other communities as much as in MMO's. So generally speaking MMO players (IMHO) are "users" of whatever garbage the devs dole out and not interested in being active participents and generally seem pretty happy with that roll in the genre. All they have to think about is posting sh*t like "your game sux" or "I hate___" or better yet "I need a new game, tell me what to play" (because I'm an idiot and can't look up a game myself and make a choice based on all the information availible over the internet)
SWG didn't fail because of the IP, infact the IP drove the early game. What killed galaxies was sony's mismanagement and massive changes to the core game play after the game was released. They did the same with EQ2 also, but the changes were more positive unlike SWG. Long and short is... Sony killed galaxies. Not lack of innovation, polish, or community care and certainly not the IP (although they picked a STUPID time period for the game... too familiar.)
The problem is largely the first point you made... innovation. We're all getting sick and tired of fantasy, there are only so many ways to rehash dwarves and elves. They need to move into other genres and expand the possibilities a bit... otherwise they're going to start losing a lot of business.
Edit: Case in Point-- WOW, that was a game based on IP. WOW doesn't make or break a game. The designers choices do.
Shadus
You really can't judge a game before it goes into open beta. So much can change... look at wow... that beta had some *massive* changes.
That being said, I wouldn't label a lot of those games flop, many of them will garner ~100k subs and probably maintain that level, which isn't a flop for a non-major studio. Many of those you listed as flop haven't even started beta yet, they could be the most innovative mmo's to date and you already discounted them. That's a genius way to encourage innovation.
I've been in the beta for several of those, vanguard and lotro won't flop, but they're going to be niche players, nothing like wow's subscription base. Vanguard sets hardware requirements *way* to high, the game play is monotonous and boring, and although it has some innovation... it's boring. It will however corner a decent population of the very hardcore players. LOTRO is a fun game to play, a blockbuster... no. It's gameplay is better than vanguard, but it lacks any kind of innovation at all more or a less. The world is pretty and the hardware requirements are extremely reasonable for the level of appearance attained. It has no chance of dethroning wow, but I expect it'll hit above 100k subs.
AOC, G&H, HJ, STO, Stargate, and WAR... I have nor real opinion on. I've not played them... and screenshots tell you -nothing-. Pirates of the burning sea will probably be a very niche game like vanguard... it at least is offering another genre for people to play other than fantasy and I think it'll have a decent following for a while just because of that. Not a blockbuster though.
Shadus
Release a small content designing tool to a limited number of people and have them submit dungeon ideas along with a writeup for what kind of mobs will be in it, and how boss encounters will be scripted... that would rock.
Also, I would like a game with a mix of open/instanced dungeons... I hope this doesnt start a 235.7 page debate... but I believe this could please a lot of people. I see the benefit to having open dungeons for the "flow" of a game, but personally I like having an area to myself and my group... a game is not very fun to me when I have to wait in line for a boss.
I don't want a game where players can change things on the fly... that would be chaotic... but a game where users are allowed to submit design ideas...? Freaking Awesome. I think it would end up being 500% more creative than what a small team of designers can develop.
Retired from WoW
Rebellion - 60 Warlock || Kalaa - 60 Warrior
Littlerebel - 60 Hunter || Albie - 60 Shaman
Played: Erm, a lot more.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Wow, you can tell some of those games will flop before they're even out of internal testing. Hell, I don't think STO is anything more then a screenshot and a faq, yet you know it will flop. You're amazing, I want to play too:
MGS4 - Sucks
Guitar Hero 3 - Sucks (The "highlighting the works of Britney Spears" will bring it down)
The next Zelda - Sucks
PS4 - Sucks
Madden '12 - Sucks
NBA '12 - Sucks (it will be a bad year for sport games in 2012)
Mark my words, you're an idiot.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
I concur... I'm really hoping for something new in MMO's... even WAR seems to be a lot of what's already been done before..... (as do all games)
You idea has merit......hopefully we'll see something like user content in the near future...that does seem like an idea just waiting to happen.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I completly agree. Most mmo's I've played and planning to try/buy are almost the same with minor graphics/gameplay changes so the will look different from each other but overall they are all the same. I think we all should become game developers and might be then the new cool mmo will be released.
Actually, there is an MMO that lets you make mods. Minions of Mirth has some pretty dated graphics and it's definitely suffering from Everquestitis, but you can create your own content and run your own server if you want. There's also no monthly fee. Basically this is the MMO equivalent of Half-Life or Quake.
Creating your own content is a great if and only if I can order my client not to request that stuff. Like if I'm fighting some goblins over here I don't want to suddenly freeze up because you just ran into view and your armor is using one of a zillion player made textures and my disk is grinding through gigabytes of game data to find what the heck you're wearing. The virtual memory adressing in towns in some games is annoying as is.
so ?
dont play!...