When you go see your doctor, do you tell him that "it's just his opinion" when he's telling you what are the problems with your health or what not? When you have a car wreck, do you tell the mecanician "oh well, it's just your opinion that my car is a wreck... The whipper and radio still works therefore, i think it's a good and reliable car.... Same concept applies with games: When you want to see if a game is good and what is broken or not, you ask an experienced game designer, which i fall into this category. So "yes", it "does" make my judgement a hell above others, just like a doctor is much more qualified then you are to call the shot on your health. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about this concept. Now yes, there are bad doctors, bad game designer and surely a crap load of bad mecanician. But i'm never taking those who are a shame for their profession as a standard.
You have some very valid points, but your examples here just don't make any sense. Everything any doctor/mechanic tells you is all opinion. Some more educated than others but still opinion.
Just like your "perfect game" you may love it, but there could be 10 others that totally hate it. If game developers tried to please every single fan/player playing their mmo's, they'd be garbage. From what I've experienced, game developers try to design their games for a specific playstyle. You have a few that try to cater to all and look what you end up with. Take WoW for example, a game that for the most part was designed with the "casual gamer" in mind, until you reach lvl 60( now 70) and WHAM!! RAID OR SUCK. Rude awakening for those "casual gamers" don't you think? Anyway, point I'm trying to make is, it's very difficult to make a game fun for everyone.
We're not on the same page here...
You're talking about "liking" a game. It's not about who like or who doesn't like. Liking a game or not liking a game "is" an opinion. While telling if X or Y game is good or bad IS NOT. McDonald is crap, it's a proven fact. So there's no debate as wether it's crap or not. Now, you might LIKE THE CRAP, but it's STILL crap. Liking McDonalds, or World of Warcraft, there's nothing i can do about that. But saying it's the BEST THING EVER MADE because it's the most sold all over the world, now this belong in a category where facts will or already proved that it's not the case.
When you eat McDonalds, you embrace your junk and enjoy it, but still know it's a pile of junk. It shouldn't be any different for a game such as World of Warcraft: You should know you only play it as a bad habit, and because you're a MMO addict with not many choices outhere. So you settle for that pile of junk, but you should "never" forget that it's still an empty pile of rubbish that got you trap inside of a pandora box making you running around for absolutely nothing. Like a hamster in it's crazy wheel. Big waste of time. If you are aware of it and still do it, you are 50% more respectful then idiots who are still arguing that WoW is the best MMO "just" because 8 Millions people can't be wrong...
Don't confuse people taste in a debate about what is actually good or not. There will always be people that loves shit, and i'm not here to discuss that. I'm here to tell you how i'm disgusted (hence Jaded) about people that do love shit whatever form it takes though...
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
So yeah, i'm jaded. Jaded of games. Jaded of people like you morons constantly babling in this forum, thinking that you know what you're talking about... I've yet to hear anything intelligent from people here, so i guess not many work in the gaming industry. Obviously, players don't have a clue about how things can and "should" be done, and they keep eating the crap those companies sends to them. Shame on you all who are still playing games like WoW: You're just as disgusting as that 300 pounds dude eating McDonalds with a big smile. For the very small percentage that still has the decency to keep their money and wait for a game that will prolly never come, i bow to you...
You are amazing. Talk about starting a flame war. After i read this above paragraph i lost all interest to post a reply in nice words to you because honestly you don't deserve it and i don't like to abuse people on internet. I don't want to hurt your e-feelings.
You sound like they type that is simply not happy with life ....period. No mmorpg is going to fix that. I suggest you simply stop playing mmorpg's or go develop your own. It doesn't matter who you have worked for. You could have been the office mail guy or something...so what?
If you are so jaded towards mmorpg's then stop playing them ,leave these boards and try to improve what I suspect is a rather miserable life.
I agree with some of what you said (Talking to the op). I find now, after the first week of fun from a new game wears off. I find myself thinking "It could of been better, they could of done this" and then my gaming experiance turns to disapointment...
My current game is Eve, been playing since release and i enjoy it. Its usally a few days playing and then a few days off.
Played EQ2, WoW. Was looking forward to trying Vanguard. But im not so sure now. WoW is the only game to really keep me and that was due to meeting some good people ingame who made leveling fun and enjoyable, which is what you really want from a game.
Well... If what you just really want from a game is to find cool players to play with, it's not a voucher for the game at all. You could be playing bowling or online backgammon for all that i care and find nice people too. If a game depends of the people you meet online in order to be good, it just prove my points that developers aren't doing their jobs because a game should be good first and then, enjoyable in group. Not the other way around and certainly not dependant of the latest.
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
So yeah, i'm jaded. Jaded of games. Jaded of people like you morons constantly babling in this forum, thinking that you know what you're talking about... I've yet to hear anything intelligent from people here, so i guess not many work in the gaming industry. Obviously, players don't have a clue about how things can and "should" be done, and they keep eating the crap those companies sends to them. Shame on you all who are still playing games like WoW: You're just as disgusting as that 300 pounds dude eating McDonalds with a big smile. For the very small percentage that still has the decency to keep their money and wait for a game that will prolly never come, i bow to you...
You are amazing. Talk about starting a flame war. After i read this above paragraph i lost all interest to post a reply in nice words to you because honestly you don't deserve it and i don't like to abuse people on internet. I don't want to hurt your e-feelings.
lol... You think i've started a flame war? God... What will you say when i really blow my torch out I have just been warming up so far... Haven't even been started on your creeps
And don't worry: There ain't no danger of hurting my feelings, i got good air plugs
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
Don't confuse people taste in a debate about what is actually good or not. There will always be people that loves shit, and i'm not here to discuss that.
That's an elitist position, and why my guess is that you'll never be able to make a successful game. Sure, McDonald's is crap. But Foie Gras is even worse crap, yet it's considered a delicacy. In a different way, "quality cinema" is the kind of movies that appeal to critics but not to most people.
What you're basically saying is: "I don't care what people like. I will tell them what to like." Fact is, the most popular TV shows, movies and games are low brow. That's what people like. As I said in my previous post, I have no problem with you catering for a minority. You just have to realise that's what you're doing.
We have too many spoiled gamers today. Your typical mmorpg costs the average gamer less than 20 cents an hour to play and that is a very concervative number. It's less than 10 cents an hour for many. I can't think of many forms of entertainment that can provide a better value than even the worse mmorpg at that price.
Just being able to log in and play in the same world with thousands of other players from all over the world at the same time is amazing....nevermind the 3d graphics, massive worlds, and low cost. So many...so..so spoiled. Of all the millions of things in this world people suffer from...It sickens me to see so many spending so much time complaining about too much lag in a video game or complaining their little cartoon can't kill another little cartoon.
I love mmorpg's as much as the next guy...but lets gain a some perspective here.
Originally posted by Xyang lol... You think i've started a flame war? God... What will you say when i really blow my torch out I have just been warming up so far... Haven't even been started on your creeps And don't worry: There ain't no danger of hurting my feelings, i got good air plugs
Calling other morons, creep and saying you havent read anything inteliigent just shows that you suffer from superiority complex. Infact you are the one who think who's know it all. LOOK I WORKED WITH UBISOFT, I KNOW EVERYTHING. Does anyone gives a shit? if you want an opinion from others try to post in a better and more friendly manner. It amuses me when some nerd or a geek try to act so intelligent and tough on internet. Go have a look in the mirror... you might be surprised.
You sound like they type that is simply not happy with life ....period. No mmorpg is going to fix that. I suggest you simply stop playing mmorpg's or go develop your own. It doesn't matter who you have worked for. You could have been the office mail guy or something...so what? If you are so jaded towards mmorpg's then stop playing them ,leave these boards and try to improve what I suspect is a rather miserable life.
You surely are good at making assumptions. My life is great and rewarding, but let me replace you in the context for the purpose of this topic:
I've stopped playing MMO's a year ago. Thanks for the advice but i wouldn't be posting here if i was satisfied with the market.. I would be playing it.
As far as developing my own MMO, i've been doing just that since 1997. But guess what: Money don't grow out of trees, and by the shit you can see on the market, they obviously don't care much about the quality of the game play you provide. The gaming industry is a big incestuous whore, where you need to lick the right ass in order to get your funds. Doesn't even matter if you got talent or not... (Ubi Soft being the best example of this. Just make your research and come back after once you know a bit more about what you're talking about)
Finally, you are a complete moron. The reasons why i spend my precious time on some gaming board is EXACTLY to help the gaming industry to grow. The "jaded gamer" post is certainly not my main one. I don't remember how many times i've went to different MMO games and plastered their board with awesome ideas that could be implemented rather easily. A few where taken, the majority of course wasn't. (for the reasons that i described above, not because it wasn't a superior concept)
So for having contributed in the shadow of this industry for the past 12 years, i give myself the right to come here and spit at those who keep dragging it down at the bottom: Either by encouraging stupid products, or by making them. It's a duty that i take very seriously since the gaming industry is not only my bread and butter, but also my greatest passion in life. I have a tendency to be very protective of those i love, and it's no different when it gets on a philosophic level.
One more post like yours and i'll have to post an essay though....
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
Originally posted by Xyang lol... You think i've started a flame war? God... What will you say when i really blow my torch out I have just been warming up so far... Haven't even been started on your creeps And don't worry: There ain't no danger of hurting my feelings, i got good air plugs
Calling other morons, creep and saying you havent read anything inteliigent just shows that you suffer from superiority complex.
Since most people that suffer from inferiority complex, accuses other great personalities around them to suffer of a superiority complex, how exactly do we solve that problem
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
You sound like they type that is simply not happy with life ....period. No mmorpg is going to fix that. I suggest you simply stop playing mmorpg's or go develop your own. It doesn't matter who you have worked for. You could have been the office mail guy or something...so what? If you are so jaded towards mmorpg's then stop playing them ,leave these boards and try to improve what I suspect is a rather miserable life.
You surely are good at making assumptions. My life is great and rewarding, but let me replace you in the context for the purpose of this topic:
I've stopped playing MMO's a year ago. Thanks for the advice but i wouldn't be posting here if i was satisfied with the market.. I would be playing it.
As far as developing my own MMO, i've been doing just that since 1997. But guess what: Money don't grow out of trees, and by the shit you can see on the market, they obviously don't care much about the quality of the game play you provide. The gaming industry is a big incestuous whore, where you need to lick the right ass in order to get your funds. Doesn't even matter if you got talent or not... (Ubi Soft being the best example of this. Just make your research and come back after once you know a bit more about what you're talking about)
Finally, you are a complete moron. The reasons why i spend my precious time on some gaming board is EXACTLY to help the gaming industry to grow. The "jaded gamer" post is certainly not my main one. I don't remember how many times i've went to different MMO games and plastered their board with awesome ideas that could be implemented rather easily. A few where taken, the majority of course wasn't. (for the reasons that i described above, not because it wasn't a superior concept)
So for having contributed in the shadow of this industry for the past 12 years, i give myself the right to come here and spit at those who keep dragging it down at the bottom: Either by encouraging stupid products, or by making them. It's a duty that i take very seriously since the gaming industry is not only my bread and butter, but also my greatest passion in life. I have a tendency to be very protective of those i love, and it's no different when it gets on a philosophic level.
One more post like yours and i'll have to post an essay though....
Oh..I see now.
You are jaded because your attempts to make an online game has failed and hurt your ego. I think your mental health is suspect and it would be wise to log out and seek professional help. Your apparent emotional attachment to either online games or online forums..or both...is unhealthy.
You sound like they type that is simply not happy with life ....period. No mmorpg is going to fix that. I suggest you simply stop playing mmorpg's or go develop your own. It doesn't matter who you have worked for. You could have been the office mail guy or something...so what? If you are so jaded towards mmorpg's then stop playing them ,leave these boards and try to improve what I suspect is a rather miserable life.
You surely are good at making assumptions. My life is great and rewarding, but let me replace you in the context for the purpose of this topic:
I've stopped playing MMO's a year ago. Thanks for the advice but i wouldn't be posting here if i was satisfied with the market.. I would be playing it.
As far as developing my own MMO, i've been doing just that since 1997. But guess what: Money don't grow out of trees, and by the shit you can see on the market, they obviously don't care much about the quality of the game play you provide. The gaming industry is a big incestuous whore, where you need to lick the right ass in order to get your funds. Doesn't even matter if you got talent or not... (Ubi Soft being the best example of this. Just make your research and come back after once you know a bit more about what you're talking about)
Finally, you are a complete moron. The reasons why i spend my precious time on some gaming board is EXACTLY to help the gaming industry to grow. The "jaded gamer" post is certainly not my main one. I don't remember how many times i've went to different MMO games and plastered their board with awesome ideas that could be implemented rather easily. A few where taken, the majority of course wasn't. (for the reasons that i described above, not because it wasn't a superior concept)
So for having contributed in the shadow of this industry for the past 12 years, i give myself the right to come here and spit at those who keep dragging it down at the bottom: Either by encouraging stupid products, or by making them. It's a duty that i take very seriously since the gaming industry is not only my bread and butter, but also my greatest passion in life. I have a tendency to be very protective of those i love, and it's no different when it gets on a philosophic level.
One more post like yours and i'll have to post an essay though....
Again.. i repeat... when you call other MORONS and write insults nobody is going to give a shit about what you want to say. We don't owe you anything and you dont owe us anything. We play game because we like it and you play games because you too enjoy it. Now stop talking like some cultist because you are creeping me out.
Go ahead with your essay... and welcome to my ignore bin. /reported .Bye bye.
Don't confuse people taste in a debate about what is actually good or not. There will always be people that loves shit, and i'm not here to discuss that.
That's an elitist position, and why my guess is that you'll never be able to make a successful game. Sure, McDonald's is crap. But Foie Gras is even worse crap, yet it's considered a delicacy. In a different way, "quality cinema" is the kind of movies that appeal to critics but not to most people.
What you're basically saying is: "I don't care what people like. I will tell them what to like." Fact is, the most popular TV shows, movies and games are low brow. That's what people like. As I said in my previous post, I have no problem with you catering for a minority. You just have to realise that's what you're doing.
Nah... I refuse to believe that making big companies accountable for their lack of imagination or people willing to encourage that is elitist a single bit. As a big developer with millions of dollars, (like Blizzard just to name them) you have a "responsibility" toward the gaming industry. Mc Donalds have made people fat, and Blizzard are making gamers dumb. Plain and simple. I'll always be a junk food hater at any level. Music, movies, games, food... It's not because choose to buy it that i have to respect them for that. I never will.
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
You sound like they type that is simply not happy with life ....period. No mmorpg is going to fix that. I suggest you simply stop playing mmorpg's or go develop your own. It doesn't matter who you have worked for. You could have been the office mail guy or something...so what? If you are so jaded towards mmorpg's then stop playing them ,leave these boards and try to improve what I suspect is a rather miserable life.
You surely are good at making assumptions. My life is great and rewarding, but let me replace you in the context for the purpose of this topic:
I've stopped playing MMO's a year ago. Thanks for the advice but i wouldn't be posting here if i was satisfied with the market.. I would be playing it.
As far as developing my own MMO, i've been doing just that since 1997. But guess what: Money don't grow out of trees, and by the shit you can see on the market, they obviously don't care much about the quality of the game play you provide. The gaming industry is a big incestuous whore, where you need to lick the right ass in order to get your funds. Doesn't even matter if you got talent or not... (Ubi Soft being the best example of this. Just make your research and come back after once you know a bit more about what you're talking about)
Finally, you are a complete moron. The reasons why i spend my precious time on some gaming board is EXACTLY to help the gaming industry to grow. The "jaded gamer" post is certainly not my main one. I don't remember how many times i've went to different MMO games and plastered their board with awesome ideas that could be implemented rather easily. A few where taken, the majority of course wasn't. (for the reasons that i described above, not because it wasn't a superior concept)
So for having contributed in the shadow of this industry for the past 12 years, i give myself the right to come here and spit at those who keep dragging it down at the bottom: Either by encouraging stupid products, or by making them. It's a duty that i take very seriously since the gaming industry is not only my bread and butter, but also my greatest passion in life. I have a tendency to be very protective of those i love, and it's no different when it gets on a philosophic level.
One more post like yours and i'll have to post an essay though....
Oh..I see now.
You are jaded because your attempts to make an online game has failed and hurt your ego. I think your mental health is suspect and it would be wise to log out and seek professional help. Your apparent emotional attachment to either online games or online forums..or both...is unhealthy.
What is unhealthy is trailer park trash such as yours, who completely waste my time with their stupidity. What makes you think i have "failed" in my attempt of making that ground breaking MMO? It's in construction and doing well. The only thing i've said, is that without the money, it will take much more time. But i ain't a quitter. My sole attempt at trying to make a peasant like you understand where i'm coming from is the best proof of that!
I'm a gaming humanist... Maybe the LAST gaming humanist on earth!
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
You sound like they type that is simply not happy with life ....period. No mmorpg is going to fix that. I suggest you simply stop playing mmorpg's or go develop your own. It doesn't matter who you have worked for. You could have been the office mail guy or something...so what? If you are so jaded towards mmorpg's then stop playing them ,leave these boards and try to improve what I suspect is a rather miserable life.
Again.. i repeat... when you call other MORONS and write insults nobody is going to give a shit about what you want to say. We don't owe you anything and you dont owe us anything. We play game because we like it and you play games because you too enjoy it. Now stop talking like some cultist because you are creeping me out.
Go ahead with your essay... and welcome to my ignore bin. /reported .Bye bye.
Woah... You are going to report me for having hurt your mediocre ego? I'll shed a tear for you
If what i'm saying is creeping you out, don't let the door hit you in the back. In case you didn't noticed: I'm not creating threads all over and keeping my analysis on that one. "You" are the intruder here, not me...
Oh and people do like when i call them morons because following the same logic, developers have threated them like morons for a decade, yet they came back for more every time... They are setting the pace, not me.
Proceed to the meat grinder now and you can /report my ass in 256 bit map colors or 16 grey tone, i don't give a rats ass about you plebian either
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
Ok....since I feel so sorry for you..I am going to try and help you out..here are some tips 1) Move out of your mom's basement...good grief..you are in your 30's already 2) Have sex...with another person 3) You forgot to take your morning meds...go take them now I know ya just an attention whore and I enjoyed entertaining your little fantasy world there...but alas..It's time for work. bye
lol, thanks for making a complete fool of yourself without me even having to add anything.
You really are sad. A pointless biological unit that can't even justify the air it breathes in this world. Next time you want to "try" to insult me, avoid to copy paste the top 3 arguments loosers like you uses every time they reach a point where they have to submit to a greater intelectual power...
Go flip your burgers now
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
Wow lol, I add a post to this thread, baring my gaming soul, and I come back a few hours later to find a full-scale flaming war has broken out...hmm surprise surprise. (To the Original Poster) Name calling is hardly a sign of maturity, and as such I very much doubt many people will take your views seriously. Try taking ten deep breaths, have a wank, then come back and tell us what you really think eh? Without the red mist or the bottle of glue you've been sniffing.
estimated age of Xyang.....17.......16...........15..............14? No way are you an adult sorry, I've never met an adult who talks like that, your original claims to work for a software developer is just pure BS.
Don't confuse people taste in a debate about what is actually good or not. There will always be people that loves shit, and i'm not here to discuss that.
That's an elitist position, and why my guess is that you'll never be able to make a successful game. Sure, McDonald's is crap. But Foie Gras is even worse crap, yet it's considered a delicacy. In a different way, "quality cinema" is the kind of movies that appeal to critics but not to most people.
What you're basically saying is: "I don't care what people like. I will tell them what to like." Fact is, the most popular TV shows, movies and games are low brow. That's what people like. As I said in my previous post, I have no problem with you catering for a minority. You just have to realise that's what you're doing.
Nah... I refuse to believe that making big companies accountable for their lack of imagination or people willing to encourage that is elitist a single bit. As a big developer with millions of dollars, (like Blizzard just to name them) you have a "responsibility" toward the gaming industry. Mc Donalds have made people fat, and Blizzard are making gamers dumb. Plain and simple. I'll always be a junk food hater at any level. Music, movies, games, food... It's not because choose to buy it that i have to respect them for that. I never will.
Actually McDonalds hasnt made people fat. People make themselves fat. People have a responsibility to themselves to take care of there own body. Bottom line! As far as WOW making people dumb.....thats just an ignorant statement at best. And not really sure why you wrote it.
But your opening post was nothing more than a need for conflict and to argue with others. GG
Nah... I refuse to believe that making big companies accountable for their lack of imagination or people willing to encourage that is elitist a single bit.
You mean, if you say enough time you're not a snob someone will eventually believe you?
As for your point about being responsible, yes, are you saying that games should be less addictive, so that fewer people will want to play them, and those who play will want to play for shorter periods? It's an interesting notion, but I don't think the market is ready for it.
Actually McDonalds hasnt made people fat. People make themselves fat. People have a responsibility to themselves to take care of there own body.
True, but you have to admit that he has a point about responsibility. People are weak, and when you push extras on them, it's partly your fault. Commercially, a company wants to push as much product as possible on the client. Morally, that's a problem. In the far east, you have games that don't allow playing more than a few hours straight, or have messages telling you to take a break.
Still, I do think that the OP is a snob. Games are entertainment, and entertainment is traditionally meant to take your mind off things, not to engage it. Some people do want their minds engaged, and that's fine, but pushing this view on everyone is snobbish. Everyone has their perferences. I, for example, like to have a story to my games. Which is why I enjoy City of Heroes, which has lots of little stories to play through, even though the missions themselves are repetitive, while I enjoy less MMOs where the quests I'm given don't string into a story, and don't tell me much about the world. That doesn't mean that other games aren't good, they're just less to my taste.
1. I pretty much agree with overall point... I don't care for any of the MMOs i've played either. WoW was kinda fun the first 5 months on a pvp server before BGs and dishonor kills (which is when I quit), but on the whole, they are all just pretty much the same games wrapped in different packages. I thought oblivion/morrowind/gothic3/thief were more immersive... which is the whole point really. There's lots of things MMOs 'could' do... but companies seem too afraid to do it.
2. Yet while I agree with the overall sentiment, the 'method' of discussion has flaws as well. Xyang, if you really are that big, then post some pictures! OR translating for you, post the damn resume. My initial position, which is the position I take with everything, is false till proven true. I suppose that's the basis of the scientific method. You claim to be a big deal, post the resume. You might be in phone support or janitorial work for all I know. You compared yourself to being a doctor previously, but doctors have their degrees on the wall. So by default, I have to think are you are full of shit.... but I'm listening.
3. Put your money where your mouth is. I started off in robotics in the early 80s. After about 10 years of working for others, I almost went crazy. So I went back, got my masters, then started my own software development business. Now I work more, and make more, but I'm loving it. 12 years is long enough. Discontent is a powerful motivator... keep your head about you of course (i'm not saying go crazy and end up on the street)... but discontent leads to force-of-will which can lead to independance... and with luck, success.
At some point, I think everyone hits that stage in their career where they know enough to take their own risks... then time forces the decision upon them..... to take their chances or let someone else do it; owner-vs-employee. Most people just stay employees....
So yeah, i'm jaded. Jaded of games. Jaded of people like you morons constantly babling in this forum, thinking that you know what you're talking about... I've yet to hear anything intelligent from people here, so i guess not many work in the gaming industry.
oh, the irony. You keep whining about...everything, yet fail to mention one thing they could do to improve things. Please, since you clearly are the only intelligent person ever to visit this sorry forum, share your wisdom, what is there to be done? What is missing?
This doesnt mean i didnt agree with you, because i do, but instead of crying and insulting the rest of the mankind, offer some improvements.
I agree with some of what you said (Talking to the op). I find now, after the first week of fun from a new game wears off. I find myself thinking "It could of been better, they could of done this" and then my gaming experiance turns to disapointment...
My current game is Eve, been playing since release and i enjoy it. Its usally a few days playing and then a few days off.
Played EQ2, WoW. Was looking forward to trying Vanguard. But im not so sure now. WoW is the only game to really keep me and that was due to meeting some good people ingame who made leveling fun and enjoyable, which is what you really want from a game.
Well... If what you just really want from a game is to find cool players to play with, it's not a voucher for the game at all. You could be playing bowling or online backgammon for all that i care and find nice people too. If a game depends of the people you meet online in order to be good, it just prove my points that developers aren't doing their jobs because a game should be good first and then, enjoyable in group. Not the other way around and certainly not dependant of the latest.
Nah its not really all that. Just saying i do enjoy a game where theres some sort of community. Its a bonus if a game has it (Eve for example). I really just wanted to agree your point that games feel half arsed etc. They could of done so much more, yet they choose not to because they know the sheep will buy there game. They get there money and thats all they really want.
Wow lol, I add a post to this thread, baring my gaming soul, and I come back a few hours later to find a full-scale flaming war has broken out...hmm surprise surprise. (To the Original Poster) Name calling is hardly a sign of maturity, and as such I very much doubt many people will take your views seriously. Try taking ten deep breaths, have a wank, then come back and tell us what you really think eh? Without the red mist or the bottle of glue you've been sniffing. estimated age of Xyang.....17.......16...........15..............14? No way are you an adult sorry, I've never met an adult who talks like that, your original claims to work for a software developer is just pure BS.
Ok well... You're an idiot. English is not my native language, so it might not sound like someone who has masterize the language, but it's nonetheless more then understandable. I'm 32 years old and worked for more then one big software developer for a very long time. The fact that you don't seem to understand that i'm talking to you like that, "just" to bluntly represent how those corporates are threating you, shows that you have an I.Q. below the age you suggested i have.
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
Comments
When you go see your doctor, do you tell him that "it's just his opinion" when he's telling you what are the problems with your health or what not? When you have a car wreck, do you tell the mecanician "oh well, it's just your opinion that my car is a wreck... The whipper and radio still works therefore, i think it's a good and reliable car....
Same concept applies with games: When you want to see if a game is good and what is broken or not, you ask an experienced game designer, which i fall into this category. So "yes", it "does" make my judgement a hell above others, just like a doctor is much more qualified then you are to call the shot on your health. I don't see what's so hard to grasp about this concept. Now yes, there are bad doctors, bad game designer and surely a crap load of bad mecanician. But i'm never taking those who are a shame for their profession as a standard.
You have some very valid points, but your examples here just don't make any sense. Everything any doctor/mechanic tells you is all opinion. Some more educated than others but still opinion.
Just like your "perfect game" you may love it, but there could be 10 others that totally hate it. If game developers tried to please every single fan/player playing their mmo's, they'd be garbage. From what I've experienced, game developers try to design their games for a specific playstyle. You have a few that try to cater to all and look what you end up with. Take WoW for example, a game that for the most part was designed with the "casual gamer" in mind, until you reach lvl 60( now 70) and WHAM!! RAID OR SUCK. Rude awakening for those "casual gamers" don't you think? Anyway, point I'm trying to make is, it's very difficult to make a game fun for everyone.
We're not on the same page here...
You're talking about "liking" a game. It's not about who like or who doesn't like. Liking a game or not liking a game "is" an opinion. While telling if X or Y game is good or bad IS NOT. McDonald is crap, it's a proven fact. So there's no debate as wether it's crap or not. Now, you might LIKE THE CRAP, but it's STILL crap. Liking McDonalds, or World of Warcraft, there's nothing i can do about that. But saying it's the BEST THING EVER MADE because it's the most sold all over the world, now this belong in a category where facts will or already proved that it's not the case.
When you eat McDonalds, you embrace your junk and enjoy it, but still know it's a pile of junk. It shouldn't be any different for a game such as World of Warcraft: You should know you only play it as a bad habit, and because you're a MMO addict with not many choices outhere. So you settle for that pile of junk, but you should "never" forget that it's still an empty pile of rubbish that got you trap inside of a pandora box making you running around for absolutely nothing. Like a hamster in it's crazy wheel. Big waste of time. If you are aware of it and still do it, you are 50% more respectful then idiots who are still arguing that WoW is the best MMO "just" because 8 Millions people can't be wrong...
Don't confuse people taste in a debate about what is actually good or not. There will always be people that loves shit, and i'm not here to discuss that. I'm here to tell you how i'm disgusted (hence Jaded) about people that do love shit whatever form it takes though...
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
You sound like they type that is simply not happy with life ....period. No mmorpg is going to fix that. I suggest you simply stop playing mmorpg's or go develop your own. It doesn't matter who you have worked for. You could have been the office mail guy or something...so what?
If you are so jaded towards mmorpg's then stop playing them ,leave these boards and try to improve what I suspect is a rather miserable life.
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
lol... You think i've started a flame war? God... What will you say when i really blow my torch out
And don't worry: There ain't no danger of hurting my feelings, i got good air plugs
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
What you're basically saying is: "I don't care what people like. I will tell them what to like." Fact is, the most popular TV shows, movies and games are low brow. That's what people like. As I said in my previous post, I have no problem with you catering for a minority. You just have to realise that's what you're doing.
We have too many spoiled gamers today. Your typical mmorpg costs the average gamer less than 20 cents an hour to play and that is a very concervative number. It's less than 10 cents an hour for many. I can't think of many forms of entertainment that can provide a better value than even the worse mmorpg at that price.
Just being able to log in and play in the same world with thousands of other players from all over the world at the same time is amazing....nevermind the 3d graphics, massive worlds, and low cost. So many...so..so spoiled. Of all the millions of things in this world people suffer from...It sickens me to see so many spending so much time complaining about too much lag in a video game or complaining their little cartoon can't kill another little cartoon.
I love mmorpg's as much as the next guy...but lets gain a some perspective here.
You surely are good at making assumptions. My life is great and rewarding, but let me replace you in the context for the purpose of this topic:
I've stopped playing MMO's a year ago. Thanks for the advice but i wouldn't be posting here if i was satisfied with the market.. I would be playing it.
As far as developing my own MMO, i've been doing just that since 1997. But guess what: Money don't grow out of trees, and by the shit you can see on the market, they obviously don't care much about the quality of the game play you provide. The gaming industry is a big incestuous whore, where you need to lick the right ass in order to get your funds. Doesn't even matter if you got talent or not... (Ubi Soft being the best example of this. Just make your research and come back after once you know a bit more about what you're talking about)
Finally, you are a complete moron. The reasons why i spend my precious time on some gaming board is EXACTLY to help the gaming industry to grow. The "jaded gamer" post is certainly not my main one. I don't remember how many times i've went to different MMO games and plastered their board with awesome ideas that could be implemented rather easily. A few where taken, the majority of course wasn't. (for the reasons that i described above, not because it wasn't a superior concept)
So for having contributed in the shadow of this industry for the past 12 years, i give myself the right to come here and spit at those who keep dragging it down at the bottom: Either by encouraging stupid products, or by making them. It's a duty that i take very seriously since the gaming industry is not only my bread and butter, but also my greatest passion in life. I have a tendency to be very protective of those i love, and it's no different when it gets on a philosophic level.
One more post like yours and i'll have to post an essay though....
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
Since most people that suffer from inferiority complex, accuses other great personalities around them to suffer of a superiority complex, how exactly do we solve that problem
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
You surely are good at making assumptions. My life is great and rewarding, but let me replace you in the context for the purpose of this topic:
I've stopped playing MMO's a year ago. Thanks for the advice but i wouldn't be posting here if i was satisfied with the market.. I would be playing it.
As far as developing my own MMO, i've been doing just that since 1997. But guess what: Money don't grow out of trees, and by the shit you can see on the market, they obviously don't care much about the quality of the game play you provide. The gaming industry is a big incestuous whore, where you need to lick the right ass in order to get your funds. Doesn't even matter if you got talent or not... (Ubi Soft being the best example of this. Just make your research and come back after once you know a bit more about what you're talking about)
Finally, you are a complete moron. The reasons why i spend my precious time on some gaming board is EXACTLY to help the gaming industry to grow. The "jaded gamer" post is certainly not my main one. I don't remember how many times i've went to different MMO games and plastered their board with awesome ideas that could be implemented rather easily. A few where taken, the majority of course wasn't. (for the reasons that i described above, not because it wasn't a superior concept)
So for having contributed in the shadow of this industry for the past 12 years, i give myself the right to come here and spit at those who keep dragging it down at the bottom: Either by encouraging stupid products, or by making them. It's a duty that i take very seriously since the gaming industry is not only my bread and butter, but also my greatest passion in life. I have a tendency to be very protective of those i love, and it's no different when it gets on a philosophic level.
One more post like yours and i'll have to post an essay though....
Oh..I see now.
You are jaded because your attempts to make an online game has failed and hurt your ego. I think your mental health is suspect and it would be wise to log out and seek professional help. Your apparent emotional attachment to either online games or online forums..or both...is unhealthy.
You surely are good at making assumptions. My life is great and rewarding, but let me replace you in the context for the purpose of this topic:
I've stopped playing MMO's a year ago. Thanks for the advice but i wouldn't be posting here if i was satisfied with the market.. I would be playing it.
As far as developing my own MMO, i've been doing just that since 1997. But guess what: Money don't grow out of trees, and by the shit you can see on the market, they obviously don't care much about the quality of the game play you provide. The gaming industry is a big incestuous whore, where you need to lick the right ass in order to get your funds. Doesn't even matter if you got talent or not... (Ubi Soft being the best example of this. Just make your research and come back after once you know a bit more about what you're talking about)
Finally, you are a complete moron. The reasons why i spend my precious time on some gaming board is EXACTLY to help the gaming industry to grow. The "jaded gamer" post is certainly not my main one. I don't remember how many times i've went to different MMO games and plastered their board with awesome ideas that could be implemented rather easily. A few where taken, the majority of course wasn't. (for the reasons that i described above, not because it wasn't a superior concept)
So for having contributed in the shadow of this industry for the past 12 years, i give myself the right to come here and spit at those who keep dragging it down at the bottom: Either by encouraging stupid products, or by making them. It's a duty that i take very seriously since the gaming industry is not only my bread and butter, but also my greatest passion in life. I have a tendency to be very protective of those i love, and it's no different when it gets on a philosophic level.
One more post like yours and i'll have to post an essay though....
Again.. i repeat... when you call other MORONS and write insults nobody is going to give a shit about what you want to say. We don't owe you anything and you dont owe us anything. We play game because we like it and you play games because you too enjoy it. Now stop talking like some cultist because you are creeping me out.
Go ahead with your essay... and welcome to my ignore bin. /reported .Bye bye.
What you're basically saying is: "I don't care what people like. I will tell them what to like." Fact is, the most popular TV shows, movies and games are low brow. That's what people like. As I said in my previous post, I have no problem with you catering for a minority. You just have to realise that's what you're doing.
Nah... I refuse to believe that making big companies accountable for their lack of imagination or people willing to encourage that is elitist a single bit. As a big developer with millions of dollars, (like Blizzard just to name them) you have a "responsibility" toward the gaming industry. Mc Donalds have made people fat, and Blizzard are making gamers dumb. Plain and simple. I'll always be a junk food hater at any level. Music, movies, games, food... It's not because choose to buy it that i have to respect them for that. I never will.
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
You surely are good at making assumptions. My life is great and rewarding, but let me replace you in the context for the purpose of this topic:
I've stopped playing MMO's a year ago. Thanks for the advice but i wouldn't be posting here if i was satisfied with the market.. I would be playing it.
As far as developing my own MMO, i've been doing just that since 1997. But guess what: Money don't grow out of trees, and by the shit you can see on the market, they obviously don't care much about the quality of the game play you provide. The gaming industry is a big incestuous whore, where you need to lick the right ass in order to get your funds. Doesn't even matter if you got talent or not... (Ubi Soft being the best example of this. Just make your research and come back after once you know a bit more about what you're talking about)
Finally, you are a complete moron. The reasons why i spend my precious time on some gaming board is EXACTLY to help the gaming industry to grow. The "jaded gamer" post is certainly not my main one. I don't remember how many times i've went to different MMO games and plastered their board with awesome ideas that could be implemented rather easily. A few where taken, the majority of course wasn't. (for the reasons that i described above, not because it wasn't a superior concept)
So for having contributed in the shadow of this industry for the past 12 years, i give myself the right to come here and spit at those who keep dragging it down at the bottom: Either by encouraging stupid products, or by making them. It's a duty that i take very seriously since the gaming industry is not only my bread and butter, but also my greatest passion in life. I have a tendency to be very protective of those i love, and it's no different when it gets on a philosophic level.
One more post like yours and i'll have to post an essay though....
Oh..I see now.
You are jaded because your attempts to make an online game has failed and hurt your ego. I think your mental health is suspect and it would be wise to log out and seek professional help. Your apparent emotional attachment to either online games or online forums..or both...is unhealthy.
What is unhealthy is trailer park trash such as yours, who completely waste my time with their stupidity. What makes you think i have "failed" in my attempt of making that ground breaking MMO? It's in construction and doing well. The only thing i've said, is that without the money, it will take much more time. But i ain't a quitter. My sole attempt at trying to make a peasant like you understand where i'm coming from is the best proof of that!
I'm a gaming humanist... Maybe the LAST gaming humanist on earth!
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
Again.. i repeat... when you call other MORONS and write insults nobody is going to give a shit about what you want to say. We don't owe you anything and you dont owe us anything. We play game because we like it and you play games because you too enjoy it. Now stop talking like some cultist because you are creeping me out.
Go ahead with your essay... and welcome to my ignore bin. /reported .Bye bye.
Woah... You are going to report me for having hurt your mediocre ego? I'll shed a tear for you
If what i'm saying is creeping you out, don't let the door hit you in the back. In case you didn't noticed: I'm not creating threads all over and keeping my analysis on that one. "You" are the intruder here, not me...
Oh and people do like when i call them morons because following the same logic, developers have threated them like morons for a decade, yet they came back for more every time... They are setting the pace, not me.
Proceed to the meat grinder now and you can /report my ass in 256 bit map colors or 16 grey tone, i don't give a rats ass about you plebian either
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
Ok....since I feel so sorry for you..I am going to try and help you out..here are some tips
1) Move out of your mom's basement...good grief..you are in your 30's already
2) Have sex...with another person
3) You forgot to take your morning meds...go take them now
I know ya just an attention whore and I enjoyed entertaining your little fantasy world there...but alas..It's time for work. bye
lol, thanks for making a complete fool of yourself without me even having to add anything.
You really are sad. A pointless biological unit that can't even justify the air it breathes in this world. Next time you want to "try" to insult me, avoid to copy paste the top 3 arguments loosers like you uses every time they reach a point where they have to submit to a greater intelectual power...
Go flip your burgers now
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
Wow lol, I add a post to this thread, baring my gaming soul, and I come back a few hours later to find a full-scale flaming war has broken out...hmm surprise surprise. (To the Original Poster) Name calling is hardly a sign of maturity, and as such I very much doubt many people will take your views seriously. Try taking ten deep breaths, have a wank, then come back and tell us what you really think eh? Without the red mist or the bottle of glue you've been sniffing.
estimated age of Xyang.....17.......16...........15..............14? No way are you an adult sorry, I've never met an adult who talks like that, your original claims to work for a software developer is just pure BS.
What you're basically saying is: "I don't care what people like. I will tell them what to like." Fact is, the most popular TV shows, movies and games are low brow. That's what people like. As I said in my previous post, I have no problem with you catering for a minority. You just have to realise that's what you're doing.
Nah... I refuse to believe that making big companies accountable for their lack of imagination or people willing to encourage that is elitist a single bit. As a big developer with millions of dollars, (like Blizzard just to name them) you have a "responsibility" toward the gaming industry. Mc Donalds have made people fat, and Blizzard are making gamers dumb. Plain and simple. I'll always be a junk food hater at any level. Music, movies, games, food... It's not because choose to buy it that i have to respect them for that. I never will.
Actually McDonalds hasnt made people fat. People make themselves fat. People have a responsibility to themselves to take care of there own body. Bottom line! As far as WOW making people dumb.....thats just an ignorant statement at best. And not really sure why you wrote it.
But your opening post was nothing more than a need for conflict and to argue with others. GG
As for your point about being responsible, yes, are you saying that games should be less addictive, so that fewer people will want to play them, and those who play will want to play for shorter periods? It's an interesting notion, but I don't think the market is ready for it.
Still, I do think that the OP is a snob. Games are entertainment, and entertainment is traditionally meant to take your mind off things, not to engage it. Some people do want their minds engaged, and that's fine, but pushing this view on everyone is snobbish. Everyone has their perferences. I, for example, like to have a story to my games. Which is why I enjoy City of Heroes, which has lots of little stories to play through, even though the missions themselves are repetitive, while I enjoy less MMOs where the quests I'm given don't string into a story, and don't tell me much about the world. That doesn't mean that other games aren't good, they're just less to my taste.
1. I pretty much agree with overall point... I don't care for any of the MMOs i've played either. WoW was kinda fun the first 5 months on a pvp server before BGs and dishonor kills (which is when I quit), but on the whole, they are all just pretty much the same games wrapped in different packages. I thought oblivion/morrowind/gothic3/thief were more immersive... which is the whole point really. There's lots of things MMOs 'could' do... but companies seem too afraid to do it.
2. Yet while I agree with the overall sentiment, the 'method' of discussion has flaws as well. Xyang, if you really are that big, then post some pictures! OR translating for you, post the damn resume. My initial position, which is the position I take with everything, is false till proven true. I suppose that's the basis of the scientific method. You claim to be a big deal, post the resume. You might be in phone support or janitorial work for all I know. You compared yourself to being a doctor previously, but doctors have their degrees on the wall. So by default, I have to think are you are full of shit.... but I'm listening.
3. Put your money where your mouth is. I started off in robotics in the early 80s. After about 10 years of working for others, I almost went crazy. So I went back, got my masters, then started my own software development business. Now I work more, and make more, but I'm loving it. 12 years is long enough. Discontent is a powerful motivator... keep your head about you of course (i'm not saying go crazy and end up on the street)... but discontent leads to force-of-will which can lead to independance... and with luck, success.
At some point, I think everyone hits that stage in their career where they know enough to take their own risks... then time forces the decision upon them..... to take their chances or let someone else do it; owner-vs-employee. Most people just stay employees....
This doesnt mean i didnt agree with you, because i do, but instead of crying and insulting the rest of the mankind, offer some improvements.
-jaded gamer #44554332-
Nah its not really all that. Just saying i do enjoy a game where theres some sort of community. Its a bonus if a game has it (Eve for example). I really just wanted to agree your point that games feel half arsed etc. They could of done so much more, yet they choose not to because they know the sheep will buy there game. They get there money and thats all they really want.
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...