As many of us may admit, I did my time on the WoW treadmill. And I have to say that for the first 40 levels it was fun...and after that, like so many other MMO's it's just more of the same. That doesn't mean that I think it's a bad game. On the contrary consider how many casual players it has intorduced to PC Gaming and MMO's. If it works for you great...like most games I've played, it's alot of fun for awhile. Now where is the Starcraft MMO? That's what I want to play!
All said and done Blizzard has struck a chord with the mainstream player. Like it or not, WoW is the de facto standard for fantasy MMORPG. They own it for the foreseeable future. That means that the others guys have got to get their A game on and give the rest of us something worth playing. Maybe something that is finished before release (read: Turbine, SOE) something that we haven't seen a thousand times before....and something that is (SHOCKER) fun.
That's all we ask in return for our time and money!
As many of us may admit, I did my time on the WoW treadmill. And I have to say that for the first 40 levels it was fun...and after that, like so many other MMO's it's just more of the same. That doesn't mean that I think it's a bad game. On the contrary consider how many casual players it has intorduced to PC Gaming and MMO's. If it works for you great...like most games I've played, it's alot of fun for awhile. Now where is the Starcraft MMO? That's what I want to play! All said and done Blizzard has struck a chord with the mainstream player. Like it or not, WoW is the de facto standard for fantasy MMORPG. They own it for the foreseeable future. That means that the others guys have got to get their A game on and give the rest of us something worth playing. Maybe something that is finished before release (read: Turbine, SOE) something that we haven't seen a thousand times before....and something that is (SHOCKER) fun.
That's all we ask in return for our time and money!
Yes, unfortunately, developing companies have learned exaclty the wrong lesson from WOW. Which is why we've been getting MMO's recently with near exact copies of this or that feature, but are not a truly finished product. For example, LOTRO, which in many respects, is virtually indistinguishable from WOW in terms of gameplay and immersion, but lacks its polished feel and looks.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
First let's dispell some myths about wow and compare it to a relatively new game Vangaurd. I have played both.
1.Easy and simple
People say wow is easy because it's simple or they say it's simple and that makes it easy. It's neither. I have over 30 skills macro'd on my druid that I am always ready to use at any moment in multiple situations. No other game to this date that is an mmorpg has ever had such an array of "DIFFERENT" skills.
2. There are few classes
In wow there are no character classes that overlap. Every class is entirely different than the other and serves a different function in pvp or pve. Within these base classes there are variations. Theoritically it is possible to be five different types of base class hunter, rogue, priest, warrior, mage, warlock, shaman, druid... you do the math body. Technically according to brad mcquades definition of a class there are more classes in this game than any other int he world single player or multiplayer. Just have to give props to blizzard for not lying to it's customer base about classes and using different names to name the same skills.
3. There is no point to pvp
Anyone who says this has never made it past level 30 or is ignorant. The point to pvp is honor. Honor get's you better gear and other perks. Also pvp is competitive and a level 35 can beat a level 40 if he plays wise.
4. Your player is dependent on gear.
This is compeltely false. I beat players with purple gear and mine is green. I won higher levels with purple gear in duels and i have green armor and weapons. Yeah a better weapon makes it easier. Isn't that in any game? If i played a game where a weapon with better stats did not give better damage i think i would quit right away and say what's the point of that? I.E. eq
5. The world is cartoonish.
The world is not cartoonish because it is not a cartoon. It is a rednering of polygons which are theoretically three dimensional. The style is somewhat cartoonish in that it is not real. That's about as close as it comes to a cartoon. But by that logic you can say that vangaurds graphics are cartoonish too, just relatively poorly done, since they attempt to mimic reality, but fall short tremendously. I mean come on the characters look like dolls or manicans. Atleast in wow the characters have personality and seem like they could exist in an alternate reality.
6. It's easy to level.
This one is true, it's easy to level, but hard to play, this is why the game is perfect when it comes to balancing.
7. Most people who play are kiddies.
Most people who play vangaurd, eq, etc. etc. are kids too? What's your point? I could bet you a million bucks that more kids in terms of ratio play vangaurd and eq because these games require more time to play and most adults have jobs and kids they take care off. WOW appeals to the adult who has little time to play not the child who has hours. Vangaurd appeals to the child elite hardcore gamer you speak off, whover you are wow critique.
5. The world is cartoonish. The world is not cartoonish because it is not a cartoon. It is a rednering of polygons which are theoretically three dimensional. The style is somewhat cartoonish in that it is not real. That's about as close as it comes to a cartoon. But by that logic you can say that vangaurds graphics are cartoonish too, just relatively poorly done, since they attempt to mimic reality, but fall short tremendously. I mean come on the characters look like dolls or manicans. Atleast in wow the characters have personality and seem like they could exist in an alternate reality.
That would have to be one of the biggest fanboi posts I have EVER read. Congratulations, i sit here in awe and admiration.
I have quoted one point of interest though I would like further clarification on. How does Vanguard attempt to mimic reality exactly? It does after all contain elves, giants, dwarves, halflings etc. I would classify that as a fantasy world, wouldn't you? Or do you live in a different reality to the rest of us?
First let's dispell some myths about wow and compare it to a relatively new game Vangaurd. I have played both.
1.Easy and simple People say wow is easy because it's simple or they say it's simple and that makes it easy. It's neither. I have over 30 skills macro'd on my druid that I am always ready to use at any moment in multiple situations. No other game to this date that is an mmorpg has ever had such an array of "DIFFERENT" skills. So, you equate difficulty with choosing what button fits a situation? A monkey in a laboratory can do that 2. There are few classes In wow there are no character classes that overlap. Every class is entirely different than the other and serves a different function in pvp or pve. Within these base classes there are variations. Theoritically it is possible to be five different types of base class hunter, rogue, priest, warrior, mage, warlock, shaman, druid... you do the math body. Technically according to brad mcquades definition of a class there are more classes in this game than any other int he world single player or multiplayer. Just have to give props to blizzard for not lying to it's customer base about classes and using different names to name the same skills. Incorrect, on both points. A.) those different types of each class do in fact overlap, and almost none of the alternates are used, quite simply because they do not work. B.) Plenty of games have both more classes and more class setups, Anarchy Online and Shadowbane, just to name two. 3. There is no point to pvp Anyone who says this has never made it past level 30 or is ignorant. The point to pvp is honor. Honor get's you better gear and other perks. Also pvp is competitive and a level 35 can beat a level 40 if he plays wise. Right, by being the rock when the 40 is a scissors 4. Your player is dependent on gear. This is compeltely false. I beat players with purple gear and mine is green. I won higher levels with purple gear in duels and i have green armor and weapons. Yeah a better weapon makes it easier. Isn't that in any game? If i played a game where a weapon with better stats did not give better damage i think i would quit right away and say what's the point of that? I.E. eq By winning the rock paper scissors draw yet again. In any of the few truly matched fights, gear is the number one factor time and again. 5. The world is cartoonish. The world is not cartoonish because it is not a cartoon. It is a rednering of polygons which are theoretically three dimensional. The style is somewhat cartoonish in that it is not real. That's about as close as it comes to a cartoon. But by that logic you can say that vangaurds graphics are cartoonish too, just relatively poorly done, since they attempt to mimic reality, but fall short tremendously. I mean come on the characters look like dolls or manicans. Atleast in wow the characters have personality and seem like they could exist in an alternate reality. I have niether the inclination, nor ability, to defend Vanguard on this point, but in any case. There is definately a style to cartoons, and WOW is very similar. It is primarily embodied in terms of the exaggeration of certain details, such as the borderlines between different segments of armor, and the use of monocolor panels. And yes, it is quite possible to get realistic looking graphics within the confines of an unreal world. WOW does however make some damn good cartoonish style graphics, too bad for it that I loathe the style itself. 6. It's easy to level. This one is true, it's easy to level, but hard to play, this is why the game is perfect when it comes to balancing. I never had any trouble at all playing, it is not in the least difficult to do. Hmm, perhaps Blizzard made a difficulty slider that makes it harder for their fanboys? 7. Most people who play are kiddies. Most people who play vangaurd, eq, etc. etc. are kids too? What's your point? I could bet you a million bucks that more kids in terms of ratio play vangaurd and eq because these games require more time to play and most adults have jobs and kids they take care off. WOW appeals to the adult who has little time to play not the child who has hours. Vangaurd appeals to the child elite hardcore gamer you speak off, whover you are wow critique. You call 8+ continuous hours which are required for raids to get the best gear job freindly? Also, this reasoning of yours does not explain the apparent decrease in maturity levels of the average WOW player as compared to other games. Unless you assume that kids are more likely to act like adults, and vice versa. I'll take that million bucks, thank you very much. Thinka bout it logically wow is the best the end.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
I laugh so hard when I read or hear people trying to justify the reason they play such a horid game. For the record I am a huge Blizzard fan, and actually tried to get immersed in this pastel world .. TWICE! Wake up m8, WoW is the MMO for people who could never grasp the "other ones"... that is the reason why it has so many people playing. The game takes no skill, quests are not searched out they are spoon fed to the player, the combat system is so basic a monkey could PvP like a king. I feel sorry for the gamers whos first MMO is WoW, because you always base your MMOs after off of your first experience, and that will do nothing but dumb down MMOs in our future.
And I am living proof that your statement is wrong. I played EQ up until a couple months after SoV. Played UO for roughly 2/2.5 years. DAOC about 1.5 years. AO had most characters between 90 and 98, and two at 122 and 125. CoH/CoV, Eve, AC, you name it I've played. So don't give me that BS about "WoW is the MMO for people who could never grasp "other ones". Because you are just talking out your ass like so many other people that dislike WoW. I'll never understand why idiots like you seem to think, that because YOU don't like something. That there has to be something wrong with the people that do like it. Hell I played Eve online during beta up until the point they require Video cards that had T&L. Had to drop out because at the time my video card didn't. Played it again shortly after it's release. Never really got into it, me personally I don't think it's that great a game. You won't see me knocking the people that do like it though. They are happy with Eve-Online, and i'm happy for them. Even if some of them are quite rabid int heir enthusiasm about the game itself. The only person you should be feeling sorry for is yourself. Because obviously you are too short sighted to realize people have different taste.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
WoW is player-friend, but not easy. Depending on what class you are playing and what quest you are on, the game isn't easy. It's very difficult to solo with a Warrior, but easy to solo with Hunter because of the Hunter's pet. Missions like Deadmines get awfully deadly and take quite a while to get through with a party level 25 and under.
2. WoW is completely soloable.
They are only a few handful of people who know how to soloable the entire game by themselves and those are veterans who have played for at several months to a year. No newbie players can grasp the gameplay that fast or good enough to solo that well.
3. WoW quests are boring and repetitive.
The same quest you see in WoW are the same quests, you'll see in other fantasy based-MMORPGs. As for the boring part, that's matter of taste.
4. WoW's graphics are bad.
Hating or liking the cartoonish graphics is matter of opinion. Some people like their graphics realistics and others have no taste whatsoever.
5. WoW has a lot of first timers playing the game.
Nope, no one has done a survey to see if anyone has or hasn't played a MMORPG prior to WoW. More or less, these statements are made people who got their info from the word of the mouth or what I like to call...rumors.
6. WoW is made entirely of kids.
Samething applies here as it did #5. No one has really done survey and they are just lying because they hate WoW. They are adults playing the game as well. The game applies to a general audience.
7. WoW was a flop.
8 million people will disagree with you. Some of the people who say WoW sucks or it was bad are only condemning the game because they couldn't find a niche and the game doesn't favor their style of gamepay. They are the same people who thinks anyone playing or praising WoW are complete morons and they believe themselves to be gaming experts or professional gaming critiques or what I like to call them...trolls.
8. WoW doesn't have a lore.
WoW does in fact have a lore that transcends several games and all of it can be found at WoW's version of wikipedia. It's also included in the game, but most people who say there is no lore didn't bother to read up on the available information or read the commentary on the quest summary or quest givers.
9. WoW's PvP is geared based.
This is partially true. WoW's pvp is class/gear/skill in that order. It doesn't matter how well gear your mage is, a hunter take you out anyday of the week because that class was built to be an anti-caster. Gear is irrevelant depending on it's type. For example; elemental resistant gear makes a Warrior resistant effective against a Mage who uses element attacks, but it makes him vulnerable to other Warrior who use strength and critical gear.
10. WoW has caused all MMORPG to use WoW-like ideas.
Nope, WoW maybe a powerful force in the MMORPG market, but that's no reason for people to bite other's dev ideas. WoW isn't responsible for all the copy cat games out there, but this is due to the fact that companies are out of touch with their player base and refuse to ask what they want in MMORPG.
Darkfall will be alternative and best choice to leave a crappy game like wow when released!!!!!!
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
People say wow is easy because it's simple or they say it's simple and that makes it easy. It's neither. I have over 30 skills macro'd on my druid that I am always ready to use at any moment in multiple situations. No other game to this date that is an mmorpg has ever had such an array of "DIFFERENT" skills.
It's simply and easy. 30 skills makes no difference. Picking the right one in WoW is very simple, because the whole combat is simple.
Tell... have you "evolved" since a week after you started playing? Have gotten a better understanding of the game? Not really. You've just learned the names and uses for new skills.
WoW is missing a sense of excitement, the BG, raid instances everything is "the same thing" and its a problem with many games. Raids are the same tactics read from some other guilds website and fed to your own guild before a raid. You then spend a week practicing some other guild work to make sure you can copy it exactly.... sounds like great fun.
Its like comparing writing your own book, to writing lines on a blackboard. The first is a project you undertake for enjoyment and rewards, the second is something given to children as a punishment. There is no sense of ingenuity, and reacting to situations in WoW, if something goes wrong in a raid, the solution is to wipe and try again. If one team is close to winning in a battleground then the solution is to "lose and try again next time"
Even players got on the boat, and god knows why. With add-ons to do things for you, perform actions, and give warnings. The "perfect build" which every player had to have more or less to the letter or they weren't as competitive. The endgame was basically mapped out for people, someone else woudl dictate your items, skills and talents.
WoW isnt easy, but it isnt hard either, WoW is monotamous, repetitive and stale.
Guys...this is a silly thread. I don't play WoW anymore, but all the haters have to face facts. 8 million paid subscribers and 2.7 million in 1 day sales for an expansion means one thing...lots of people really like WoW. All the fanboys need to wake up too. No matter how much you love your current game of choice, there will be people that hate it. That's life. Move on. Go play something.
I found my experience to be exactly the same as it was in EQ say I didn't have to put up with half finished high level dungeons.
Is WoW easy ? kind of yes. But I found it just as challenging as I did anything in EQ DAOC or any other game I have played. The dungeons all require competant players to be able to complete and run through without getting wiped many times. They all have their stategies etc.
The leet kiddiie factor ? Is very high in WoW yes. But the ratio of leet idiots to standard people is the exact same as it is in any MMO. So what ? 30 percent of 8 milion is a lot more people that lets say 30 percent of 450K. These people are as well always the most vocal. I could always find a niche set of players to game with that were at my maturity level and not kiddie types.
Unfortunately for WoW by the time I started playing it I had already experienced the best it had to offer. Polished game and what not problem was it offered nothing new really. So people burn out on it faster and only the MMO virgin types play it for a long time.
TBC as an expansion was very well done as well. However its just more of the same pretty much.
The only reason it is successful is because it sold millions of copies. Thats it. It didn't do anything to change/evolve the industry like with Doom and Quake did to when they came out many many years ago.
WoW placed a new standard on gaming and the number players a MMORPG should have to be successful. BTW, Wolfenstein 3D was a first person shooter game that came before both those games. Doom came out and later Quake started ripping off Doom. If W3D hadn't been made, there would be no Doom or Quake.
I just want to point out that, before W3D, and all the current popular FPS that came out in the past 17 years, there were plenty of famous FPS that came out in the 1980's. If it weren't for those EARLIER FPS being sooo successful, there would be no W3D
One of the most famous, earliest, successful, FPS was Law of the West.
Next, WoW 's number of players is NOT the new standard a mmorpg should have to be successful. The standard is still the same as it was roughly 8 years ago - a mmorpg needs 100k players to be a bona fid hit success. 50k players to have a chance in heaven or hell of recouping its investment money.
The number of players any mmorpg needs, is a number big enough to get back the money invested into it. At current time, that is 100k players. And yes, this should give everyone a hit of how insane WoW is doing with its over 8 million players.
The leet kiddiie factor ? Is very high in WoW yes. But the ratio of leet idiots to standard people is the exact same as it is in any MMO. So what ? 30 percent of 8 milion is a lot more people that lets say 30 percent of 450K. These people are as well always the most vocal. I could always find a niche set of players to game with that were at my maturity level and not kiddie types.
The exact same ratio huh? So, how then is it that while I search hard over multiple servers to find a decent community pocket in WOW, without finding a single one (I'm sure they are there, just buried under avalanches of childlike idiots). And then go to EVE or Anarchy Online, and don't even have to look?
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
5. WoW has a lot of first timers playing the game.
Nope, no one has done a survey to see if anyone has or hasn't played a MMORPG prior to WoW. More or less, these statements are made people who got their info from the word of the mouth or what I like to call...rumors.
No one needs to take a survey, it's just simple math. WoW has pulled in many more subs than every other previous MMO combined.
And the figures back Preta's comments up, just check the graphs on http://mmogchart.com/ which use figures taken from press releases by the various MMO companies.
Prior to WoWs release the total for MMO subscriptions was around 6.5 million, currently the total subscriptions for all MMOs except WoW is around 5.5 million. This shows quite clearly that a large proportion (even the majority) of WoW players were in fact MMO virgins when they originally took out their WoW subscription. Due to the amount of coverage and advertising WoW gets it is also fair to conclude that most people looking to get into an MMO will pick it up first.
I'm currently playing Guild Wars Nightfall but I gotta say man
I JUST LOOOOOOOOOOVE WOW
Before Blizzard released WoW, most games I played were full of annoying noobs
But guess what! After WoW got released, a lot of noobs ended up leaving to play WoW, so now the community of most games I played after WoW got launched is like 400% better!
WoW is just a big hole that you put old and useless garbage in it so the world won't stink as much as before ^^ So I mean, what would we do without it??
Ultima Online 98~04 Dark Age of Camelot 03~07 Final Fantasy XI 04~06 Guild Wars 05~08 World of Warcraft 04~05 Unsuccessful Tries: DFO/EQ2/DRaja/Rag/Req/RYL/9D/Cabal/KO/PSU/RF/GE/TO/TR/DDO/EVE/LoTRO/L2/RZ/SWG/VG
The only reason it is successful is because it sold millions of copies. Thats it. It didn't do anything to change/evolve the industry like with Doom and Quake did to when they came out many many years ago.
WoW placed a new standard on gaming and the number players a MMORPG should have to be successful. BTW, Wolfenstein 3D was a first person shooter game that came before both those games. Doom came out and later Quake started ripping off Doom. If W3D hadn't been made, there would be no Doom or Quake.
I just want to point out that, before W3D, and all the current popular FPS that came out in the past 17 years, there were plenty of famous FPS that came out in the 1980's. If it weren't for those EARLIER FPS being sooo successful, there would be no W3D
One of the most famous, earliest, successful, FPS was Law of the West.
Next, WoW 's number of players is NOT the new standard a mmorpg should have to be successful. The standard is still the same as it was roughly 8 years ago - a mmorpg needs 100k players to be a bona fid hit success. 50k players to have a chance in heaven or hell of recouping its investment money.
The number of players any mmorpg needs, is a number big enough to get back the money invested into it. At current time, that is 100k players. And yes, this should give everyone a hit of how insane WoW is doing with its over 8 million players.
Not being nitpicky or nothing but Laws of the west, seems like a 3rd person shooter. Your perspective is behind and to the right of your character not "Through his eyes" So that strikes that one out at least.
Not being nitpicky or nothing but Laws of the west, seems like a 3rd person shooter. Your perspective is behind and to the right of your character not "Through his eyes" So that strikes that one out at least.
In modern FPS, you are "technically" behind both arms of the character. Or sometimes behind 1 arm of the character (if they are holding 1 gun.).
I agree with you it's not the exact precise 100% perspective of the ancient Law of the West, but close enough that the perspective is more than 51% the same. And definatly close enough that LotW fully influenced the further evolution of FPS. LotW was the first sucessful game of its type. It is a shooter. The player moves around the game as if they are the character. The player pretty much sees through the character's eyes.
All I'm getting at is, Law of the West was the first successful game to produce a new market aimed in the direction of the modern FPS. (Not Castle Wolf... ) In the same way the stand alone game Ultima 0 (from the 1970's) was the first game to steer the market towards the modern mmorpg.
Going back to the very first post, the one that started this
Yes, WoW has dominated the market and yes it seems to be a good game, but think for just a minute, what if we could get Blizzard to run some other games, ones that just don't seem good but had potentail.
WoW was ok, and Blizzard made it Great, i think other companies(SOE, ext.) should take note of how Blizzard works with patches, and how they treat people.... they realize we pay, and we are right
WoW catches alot of flak but all in all its a solid game. Yeah it has its problems what game doesn't. Its main issue with the MMO community is its not what hard core MMOers wanted or expected. I really enjoyed my time in WoW.
1) I agree, there are alot of adults playing, you gotta really search for them. So what
2) yeah agree. I think all MMO are basic and made for people who don't like to think however lol. I yet to run across an MMO that really challenges you. Go kill 10 rats is not a challenge lol. Standing in a corner killing respawns isn't a challenge. These are standard MMO conventions.
3) agree. All MMO companies need to really learn to finish their products This crap like has been going on with MMO is just insulting. Released buggy and unfinished and expecting players to pay for it. This past year was nothing but a parade of unfinished crap. DDO might not have wrecked if they spent another 6 months adding in all the crap they "damage controlled" in after launch BEFORE it released.
4) no game is perfect, even if it was, the MMO community would never admit it
WoW is mainly guilty of bringing in alot of "new blood" into the genre. With 2 or 3 million U.S. and 2 million Europeans playing its bound to bring in alot of opinions and personality types. Not everyone thinks the same or plays MMOs for the same reasons.
I'm glad WoW at least set the production value so high where companies like SOE continue to sh*t on their customers.
1: I'd go for the simple gameplay being the crook for the bad community. But heck, it contains very little RP'ing and there's no reason for people to be kind to other people. Unless they chose to.
2: WoW is incredibly easy AND simple. That it takes TIME does not mean it's hard or complicated.
3: At the same time as your argument sounds like it makes sence, not every company had the resources Blizzard had when they made their game. For some it's impossible to make the games completed. There are always time frames.
4: Yes. Polished. And I feel it's their responsibility with a game like that which contains very little real content. There's weapons, a few classes and some form of PvP involved. It would seem pretty unlogical if 2 years would result in a buggy game to me.
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
3. WoW has ruined MMO's due to the WoW factor. It took someone like Blizzard who has their shit together to show up this industry. Before WoW all we had to measure ourselves on was the next SOE Expansion that wasn't ready for release. Funny how Blizzard is the only game manufacturer out there that actually waited till their game is ready for release before asking their players to pay for it. (EQ2, Vanguard anyone?). It burns my ass to see games that aren't done get released - should be illegal.
What has this got to do with WoW ruining MMOs? WoW has completely dumbed down the genre, you can't deny that, just take Vanguard for example... and that's currently the most hardcore one!
Comments
As many of us may admit, I did my time on the WoW treadmill. And I have to say that for the first 40 levels it was fun...and after that, like so many other MMO's it's just more of the same. That doesn't mean that I think it's a bad game. On the contrary consider how many casual players it has intorduced to PC Gaming and MMO's. If it works for you great...like most games I've played, it's alot of fun for awhile. Now where is the Starcraft MMO? That's what I want to play!
All said and done Blizzard has struck a chord with the mainstream player. Like it or not, WoW is the de facto standard for fantasy MMORPG. They own it for the foreseeable future. That means that the others guys have got to get their A game on and give the rest of us something worth playing. Maybe something that is finished before release (read: Turbine, SOE) something that we haven't seen a thousand times before....and something that is (SHOCKER) fun.
That's all we ask in return for our time and money!
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
First let's dispell some myths about wow and compare it to a relatively new game Vangaurd. I have played both.
1.Easy and simple
People say wow is easy because it's simple or they say it's simple and that makes it easy. It's neither. I have over 30 skills macro'd on my druid that I am always ready to use at any moment in multiple situations. No other game to this date that is an mmorpg has ever had such an array of "DIFFERENT" skills.
2. There are few classes
In wow there are no character classes that overlap. Every class is entirely different than the other and serves a different function in pvp or pve. Within these base classes there are variations. Theoritically it is possible to be five different types of base class hunter, rogue, priest, warrior, mage, warlock, shaman, druid... you do the math body. Technically according to brad mcquades definition of a class there are more classes in this game than any other int he world single player or multiplayer. Just have to give props to blizzard for not lying to it's customer base about classes and using different names to name the same skills.
3. There is no point to pvp
Anyone who says this has never made it past level 30 or is ignorant. The point to pvp is honor. Honor get's you better gear and other perks. Also pvp is competitive and a level 35 can beat a level 40 if he plays wise.
4. Your player is dependent on gear.
This is compeltely false. I beat players with purple gear and mine is green. I won higher levels with purple gear in duels and i have green armor and weapons. Yeah a better weapon makes it easier. Isn't that in any game? If i played a game where a weapon with better stats did not give better damage i think i would quit right away and say what's the point of that? I.E. eq
5. The world is cartoonish.
The world is not cartoonish because it is not a cartoon. It is a rednering of polygons which are theoretically three dimensional. The style is somewhat cartoonish in that it is not real. That's about as close as it comes to a cartoon. But by that logic you can say that vangaurds graphics are cartoonish too, just relatively poorly done, since they attempt to mimic reality, but fall short tremendously. I mean come on the characters look like dolls or manicans. Atleast in wow the characters have personality and seem like they could exist in an alternate reality.
6. It's easy to level.
This one is true, it's easy to level, but hard to play, this is why the game is perfect when it comes to balancing.
7. Most people who play are kiddies.
Most people who play vangaurd, eq, etc. etc. are kids too? What's your point? I could bet you a million bucks that more kids in terms of ratio play vangaurd and eq because these games require more time to play and most adults have jobs and kids they take care off. WOW appeals to the adult who has little time to play not the child who has hours. Vangaurd appeals to the child elite hardcore gamer you speak off, whover you are wow critique.
Thinka bout it logically wow is the best
the end.
I have quoted one point of interest though I would like further clarification on. How does Vanguard attempt to mimic reality exactly? It does after all contain elves, giants, dwarves, halflings etc. I would classify that as a fantasy world, wouldn't you? Or do you live in a different reality to the rest of us?
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Yes, I think that's one way of putting it
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Tell... have you "evolved" since a week after you started playing? Have gotten a better understanding of the game? Not really. You've just learned the names and uses for new skills.
Its like comparing writing your own book, to writing lines on a blackboard. The first is a project you undertake for enjoyment and rewards, the second is something given to children as a punishment. There is no sense of ingenuity, and reacting to situations in WoW, if something goes wrong in a raid, the solution is to wipe and try again. If one team is close to winning in a battleground then the solution is to "lose and try again next time"
Even players got on the boat, and god knows why. With add-ons to do things for you, perform actions, and give warnings. The "perfect build" which every player had to have more or less to the letter or they weren't as competitive. The endgame was basically mapped out for people, someone else woudl dictate your items, skills and talents.
WoW isnt easy, but it isnt hard either, WoW is monotamous, repetitive and stale.
you know what ?
I found my experience to be exactly the same as it was in EQ say I didn't have to put up with half finished high level dungeons.
Is WoW easy ? kind of yes. But I found it just as challenging as I did anything in EQ DAOC or any other game I have played. The dungeons all require competant players to be able to complete and run through without getting wiped many times. They all have their stategies etc.
The leet kiddiie factor ? Is very high in WoW yes. But the ratio of leet idiots to standard people is the exact same as it is in any MMO. So what ? 30 percent of 8 milion is a lot more people that lets say 30 percent of 450K. These people are as well always the most vocal. I could always find a niche set of players to game with that were at my maturity level and not kiddie types.
Unfortunately for WoW by the time I started playing it I had already experienced the best it had to offer. Polished game and what not problem was it offered nothing new really. So people burn out on it faster and only the MMO virgin types play it for a long time.
TBC as an expansion was very well done as well. However its just more of the same pretty much.
playing eq2 and two worlds
I just want to point out that, before W3D, and all the current popular FPS that came out in the past 17 years, there were plenty of famous FPS that came out in the 1980's. If it weren't for those EARLIER FPS being sooo successful, there would be no W3D
One of the most famous, earliest, successful, FPS was Law of the West.
http://screenmania.retrogames.com/c64/01/c64_0018.html
Next, WoW 's number of players is NOT the new standard a mmorpg should have to be successful. The standard is still the same as it was roughly 8 years ago - a mmorpg needs 100k players to be a bona fid hit success. 50k players to have a chance in heaven or hell of recouping its investment money.
The number of players any mmorpg needs, is a number big enough to get back the money invested into it. At current time, that is 100k players. And yes, this should give everyone a hit of how insane WoW is doing with its over 8 million players.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
And the figures back Preta's comments up, just check the graphs on http://mmogchart.com/ which use figures taken from press releases by the various MMO companies.
Prior to WoWs release the total for MMO subscriptions was around 6.5 million, currently the total subscriptions for all MMOs except WoW is around 5.5 million. This shows quite clearly that a large proportion (even the majority) of WoW players were in fact MMO virgins when they originally took out their WoW subscription. Due to the amount of coverage and advertising WoW gets it is also fair to conclude that most people looking to get into an MMO will pick it up first.
I'm currently playing Guild Wars Nightfall but I gotta say man
I JUST LOOOOOOOOOOVE WOW
Before Blizzard released WoW, most games I played were full of annoying noobs
But guess what! After WoW got released, a lot of noobs ended up leaving to play WoW, so now the community of most games I played after WoW got launched is like 400% better!
WoW is just a big hole that you put old and useless garbage in it so the world won't stink as much as before ^^ So I mean, what would we do without it??
Ultima Online 98~04
Dark Age of Camelot 03~07
Final Fantasy XI 04~06
Guild Wars 05~08
World of Warcraft 04~05
Unsuccessful Tries: DFO/EQ2/DRaja/Rag/Req/RYL/9D/Cabal/KO/PSU/RF/GE/TO/TR/DDO/EVE/LoTRO/L2/RZ/SWG/VG
I just want to point out that, before W3D, and all the current popular FPS that came out in the past 17 years, there were plenty of famous FPS that came out in the 1980's. If it weren't for those EARLIER FPS being sooo successful, there would be no W3D
One of the most famous, earliest, successful, FPS was Law of the West.
http://screenmania.retrogames.com/c64/01/c64_0018.html
Next, WoW 's number of players is NOT the new standard a mmorpg should have to be successful. The standard is still the same as it was roughly 8 years ago - a mmorpg needs 100k players to be a bona fid hit success. 50k players to have a chance in heaven or hell of recouping its investment money.
The number of players any mmorpg needs, is a number big enough to get back the money invested into it. At current time, that is 100k players. And yes, this should give everyone a hit of how insane WoW is doing with its over 8 million players.
Not being nitpicky or nothing but Laws of the west, seems like a 3rd person shooter. Your perspective is behind and to the right of your character not "Through his eyes" So that strikes that one out at least.
In modern FPS, you are "technically" behind both arms of the character. Or sometimes behind 1 arm of the character (if they are holding 1 gun.).
I agree with you it's not the exact precise 100% perspective of the ancient Law of the West, but close enough that the perspective is more than 51% the same. And definatly close enough that LotW fully influenced the further evolution of FPS. LotW was the first sucessful game of its type. It is a shooter. The player moves around the game as if they are the character. The player pretty much sees through the character's eyes.
All I'm getting at is, Law of the West was the first successful game to produce a new market aimed in the direction of the modern FPS. (Not Castle Wolf... ) In the same way the stand alone game Ultima 0 (from the 1970's) was the first game to steer the market towards the modern mmorpg.
Going back to the very first post, the one that started this
Yes, WoW has dominated the market and yes it seems to be a good game, but think for just a minute, what if we could get Blizzard to run some other games, ones that just don't seem good but had potentail.
WoW was ok, and Blizzard made it Great, i think other companies(SOE, ext.) should take note of how Blizzard works with patches, and how they treat people.... they realize we pay, and we are right
WoW catches alot of flak but all in all its a solid game. Yeah it has its problems what game doesn't. Its main issue with the MMO community is its not what hard core MMOers wanted or expected. I really enjoyed my time in WoW.
1) I agree, there are alot of adults playing, you gotta really search for them. So what
2) yeah agree. I think all MMO are basic and made for people who don't like to think however lol. I yet to run across an MMO that really challenges you. Go kill 10 rats is not a challenge lol. Standing in a corner killing respawns isn't a challenge. These are standard MMO conventions.
3) agree. All MMO companies need to really learn to finish their products This crap like has been going on with MMO is just insulting. Released buggy and unfinished and expecting players to pay for it. This past year was nothing but a parade of unfinished crap. DDO might not have wrecked if they spent another 6 months adding in all the crap they "damage controlled" in after launch BEFORE it released.
4) no game is perfect, even if it was, the MMO community would never admit it
WoW is mainly guilty of bringing in alot of "new blood" into the genre. With 2 or 3 million U.S. and 2 million Europeans playing its bound to bring in alot of opinions and personality types. Not everyone thinks the same or plays MMOs for the same reasons.
I'm glad WoW at least set the production value so high where companies like SOE continue to sh*t on their customers.
Umm ok... interesting... interesting...
1: I'd go for the simple gameplay being the crook for the bad community. But heck, it contains very little RP'ing and there's no reason for people to be kind to other people. Unless they chose to.
2: WoW is incredibly easy AND simple. That it takes TIME does not mean it's hard or complicated.
3: At the same time as your argument sounds like it makes sence, not every company had the resources Blizzard had when they made their game. For some it's impossible to make the games completed. There are always time frames.
4: Yes. Polished. And I feel it's their responsibility with a game like that which contains very little real content. There's weapons, a few classes and some form of PvP involved. It would seem pretty unlogical if 2 years would result in a buggy game to me.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "