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I get so frustrated by people complaining about Trammel
daveospice
Member UncommonPosts: 366
I've played UO since it launched (off and on) and I've always been playing on a non-trammel world. Siege Perilous (when it came out).
People sit here and bitch about the no-pvp area, and then never moved over to SP. It was dead there, and it was not only the same as old UO but it was BETTER. It had a whole new element to it! Restricted character growth, and only one character! It was even harder! Yet still no one came for so many years until finally they started to make it more carebear. So I don't want to hear anyone complain about trammel, when the alternative was there the whole time and the proof (about growth) is in the pudding.
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Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
If EA announced they were making a Classic Server and marketed it, you would see a large influx of old school players come back.
Trammel was the worst thing implimented in this game and is one of the downfalls of the game, period.
Oh, and no I was not a PK in my UO days. Matter of fact I was usually one of the few crafters who would mine and get my ore stolen frequently. Or killed and all my stuff taken. You know what? It made the game realistic and fun. To get back at them I made a theif, stole the PK's keys and went and robbed their castle. Great days, great days.......
I tried moving to SP when I played. This was before they gave power hour to SP (I think). I was greeted with hostility by every player I came into contact with. No guilds were willing to take me in, and I was routinely killed over and over by players. I was looted of every item I had every time. I tried going to the boards and guild websites to become recruited, but I found that most guilds were real life friends, or didn't except people who migrated from Trammel. I was inexperienced and remained that way. It sucked.
This happened a long time ago. I was very young and gave up too quickly, but the players on SP didn't make it any easier. Maybe if you convinced them to accept new recruits and not just use them as easy kills?
Doktar - 70 Troll Priest - Perenolde
When there was no choice of worlds for people to populate, it meant that 95% of the people were good and not into grief. This made for a great balance in the game world where the majority of the populus was all good and you'd more often meet people in the wild who'd want to befriend you and hunt than kill you.
The PVP threat was always there however and there were times it bit you in the ass.
When they give people the CHOICE, the majority of people choose to live in the peaceful, non-grtief based world which screws the balance and you have two choices a) All out FFA chaos, or b) carebear.
Me, I don't want either. I want risk from PVP and such threats but I also want a larger majority of good people like the real world.
That's how the trammel/Felluca split shafted UO dude.
Siege Perilous wan't a place where the people who enjoyed the original UO could have their game back. Far from it. It was FFA chaos populated by griefers.
You're missing the point mate.
You just described a world where 95% of the people wanted to live in peace and cooperate....and there was 5% who wanted to prey on them. When those same 5% were offered a chance to really pvp (FFA) you calll it chaos populated server full of griefers....
You just proved the point, most people bemoaning Trammel were griefers who enjoyed easy killing....
They got what they deserved.... pve'er refuse to be victims anymore.... and a pre-trammel UO server would tank from a financial (sub) perspective....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Being killed in open PvP because you have valuable items is called "realistic."
Being killed and having to roll a new character (especially in an open PvP game) is called "stupid."
Complaining about people's use of the word "realistic" because it's not 100% real-life is called "trolling."
That doesn't constitute GRIEF does it?
the 5% want to PK people in the wild, make a living from it and be rich. They don't want play on a level playing field.
If your signature is from a poster on here regarding a post from yourself, the irony has made me chuckle. Thanks.
Thats where the money was and thats how to money disappeared..when they started making UO "safe".
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
There was no such thing as PKing in SP as everyone knew how to PvP and fought back and these guys who complain here couldnt take any challenge.
ITs just a bit more complicated than that.
You can have only 1 character on SP/Mugen.
The rate at how fast you gain skill is different from regualr shards.
You can not transfer characters into or out from SP.
There is an issue with Blessed items on the shard. (this is really complicated issue all by itself)
By the time SP was setup as a new shard, many players had full developed characters, and it is a real pain(even if you know all the qucik tricks) to make a new character from zero.
The list could go on but thoses are the main reasons that I never went to SP. Plus I still enjoy my starting shard.
I was happily playing UO for a great time pre-trammel..
Surely you must know how much it must have taken me to have a GM mage/GM tamer, GM assassin (poisoning too) and a GM to all mule (GM all crafts/mining/etc) with my pvp chars having 90+ in magic resistance!
I was happily enjoying pvp in my shard.
Then trammel came.
Do you think I would say "ok np, my shard is now a carebear hell, I will forget all about my chars here, my hard "work" of years" and just move to SP and start all over?
Forget it, that day trammel came, UO died for me.
Siege Perilous was never an alternative for the pre-Trammel UO. As someone who wasn't very big on PvP, I can honestly say, the worse thing about the Felucca/Trammel split was the destruction of UO's community. The split killed the Felucca shard's population, and the Trammel population interacted much less than prior to the split. It was much rarer to see a group of players working together outside of a dungeon post-split. Prior to the split, you'd run into groups of players quite often, even just killing orcs at one of the camps. Siege was, and is, the UO of the time, with extra restrictions. It currently has the same crappy loot item based gameplay that the normal servers have, but with restrictions on characters and skill gain, plus less players.
There are more people who would like to play on a server that has the ruleset from just before the Renaissance patch, than are currently playing on the various Siege servers (and likely more than are playing on any single regular UO server). I tried UO again at the beginning of this year, but I didn't last past two days, because everything that made me quit the first time was still there, only more prevalant. The Age of Shadows expansion was worse, gameplay wise, than the Renaissance patch.
The Renaissance patch gave the game a breif bump in sibscribers, but it quickley dwindled back to lower than Renaissance levels, and has slowly dwindled from there. The developers should have added a couple non-PK servers instead of changing the regular servers. Even now, they would be better off opening a classic server, minus all the expansions. Siege has never been a widely used server, and both current a former players have constantly asked for a pre-Trammel server. I am, to this day, dumbfounded why the developers refuse to open one. They opened Siege as a response to people asking for a pre-Trammel server, but it wasn't what anyone wanted. the existance of Siege proves they can support a server with a different ruleset, so why do they refuse to offer what people want?
If EA announced they were making a Classic Server and marketed it, you would see a large influx of old school players come back.
Trammel was the worst thing implimented in this game and is one of the downfalls of the game, period.
Oh, and no I was not a PK in my UO days. Matter of fact I was usually one of the few crafters who would mine and get my ore stolen frequently. Or killed and all my stuff taken. You know what? It made the game realistic and fun. To get back at them I made a theif, stole the PK's keys and went and robbed their castle. Great days, great days.......Sorry but he has a point still.When trammel was made ,the old world was left intact totally apart from the trees been dead .Everything stayed same ,yet no one stayed on the fellucia world .This happened from day 1 of trammel opening.
So surely this same "people" that quit long ago were still there to continue when trammel opened but didn't and moved to the new world.
In fact I only recall 2 people i knew staying in fellucia.1 stayed because it was empty and much easier to mine and collect rares(when not doing this he was back in trammel) and one (let me repeat only 1) stayed in protest of a new safe world and he too left because it was void of life.
I was happily playing UO for a great time pre-trammel..
Surely you must know how much it must have taken me to have a GM mage/GM tamer, GM assassin (poisoning too) and a GM to all mule (GM all crafts/mining/etc) with my pvp chars having 90+ in magic resistance!
I was happily enjoying pvp in my shard.
Then trammel came.
Do you think I would say "ok np, my shard is now a carebear hell, I will forget all about my chars here, my hard "work" of years" and just move to SP and start all over?
Forget it, that day trammel came, UO died for me.
It never became carebear .Fellucia rules stayed intact.All that happened was an option of how you wanted to play the game was offered.Fact most choose trammel shows thats what most wanted!
You really have no clue hercules.
Trammel was not an option. UO is a game and Trammel was merely an easier set of rules made within the same game. When you offer an easier set of rules for the same game, guess which rules the majority is going to play by? It does not matter what game it is, the answer will always be the same - the easier set of rules.
Yeah it is an option in any sense of the way.If most picked trammel to live and play in then guess what the majority has spoken.But unlike an election where you got to live with the results even if your canditate loses there was always the option for hardcore pkers to stay in fellucia and continue the pvp war which clearly most did not want.
Here http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/option - the right to choose
We all had the right to choose trammel or fellucia or both .Fact that most choose not to set into fellucia again just shows what most wanted.
But fact that the minority were unhappy about people getting a choice does not mean the game suddenly sucked for all .It means the game sucked for a few.
UO downfall was age and the changes made well after trammel.Even the subscription kept rising well after trammel.
You really are a waste of time. Here's your last chance to understand why an easier set of rules within the very same game, with no balancing consequences, is not an option.
If you had the "choice" of $1 or $100 which will you take?
I found it funny by reading this thread.. how totally clueless people were. Yet they liked to toss insults at those that actually noticed what happened in the game.
Trammel was NOT introduced to add an easier ruleset. I learned to pvp.. because for me at least I had to.
This was not however, the type of game many people wanted.
They didn't add Trammel to screw with this supposed player base which was "where the money was".
They added it to try and stem the flow of subscribers that were leaving for another game that had NO forced pvp (gasp I wonder what game that was..)
What exactly would be the technical explination of how trammel affected "hard core" pvp players? If you are hard core you would be there fighting.
oh wait easier rule set.. um exactly what benefit did one have hiding in Trammel if they were a hard core pvp player? They got better gear? um what? I mean seriously... what advantage/affect did or could Trammel have on a hard core pvp population?
I pvp'd in crafted gear I made myself.. I don't even think I'm that good at pvp but I held my own easily. There was nothing in Trammel that could give me an advantage or affect my pvp.
Now the guys that chased miners around... ya it affected them.. and yes I'm sorry but that game play existed in UO.
I've always found it some kind of sad joke that anyone could claim Trammel actually affected a "pvp oriented population".
If you were hiding in Trammel then you weren't playing UO for pvp. Thus the only people in Trammel didn't want to pvp.
Oh and this is based on memories from playing at the time. The game isn't anything close to what I remember now.. and there is no way I could play it again.
The one clear memory I have is.. my guild had close to 200 members. During 1998 as more and more were invited to EQ beta.. going into its launch in early 1999... that guild turned into a guild of 2 members...
And the "fight nights" in Oasis desert on Sonoma had been long gone before that happened (when it was so crowded people were stacked on top of each other).
The only bad thing I have to say about Trammel is... by the time they added it the damage was done.. and Trammel did in fact cause more damage when it was added. That's because the population split... To be clear... Trammel was something needed.. but by the time it was added it was to late.
So in that sense.. yes I agree Trammel was bad. But the big money population is not in a full pvp game.. because amazingly if it was.. there would be... one... because I've yet to find the MMO that is just a big open pvp game.. and has a big money population (another clarification would be that I live in the USA.. so I'm not going to count a korean based game with a mostly asian population in my previous statement).
Oh and one more comment... the easier game play option that one poster mentioned was in fact true.
Most people who claim to be "hard core" pvp'rs are in fact looking for the easy mode fight. The other player they can always beat. Which is why when these same people play games with pvp specific ruleset servers they can't compete or make it. Then post on forums about how they should be able to pvp against the "care bears".
I mean since we are going to have generalized statements.. I might as well make one.
Both Everquest (blue) and Asheron's Call (purple) grew to over 480,000 subscriptions over a period of more than two years with no significant effect to the growth rate of Ultima Online (Violet). This is because the MMO market has been expanding exponentially since inception.
Please show yourself where your "flow of subscribers that were leaving for another game that had NO forced pvp (gasp I wonder what game that was..)," happened.
Trammel did, in fact, add an easier set of rules to the same game, whether it was intentional or not, with the land of invulnerabiltiy from other players - all you had to do was step through the door and become invulnerable. Within a year after the release of Trammel, UO's growth stopped and subscriptions actually began falling for the first time ever. There was a short-lived spike later with Age of shadows, when players bought more multiple accounts to places houses in the new housing area, but within only a few months subscriptions began falling again, never to recover.
I agree with Semp.
Would you rather have $1 or $100? Excellent Point.
I remember when Trammel came, Horses in Fel where doubt the price (I believe around 600gp) than in Trammel.
Also, I remember PreUO:R, people would pay attention to your Karma, and wouldn't trust you if you had bad Karma..
In Trammel, being "Evil" was Fashionable.