you need to AIM on your target, like you do in first person shooters, so if you heal, you need to keep moving and keep an eye on your target to heal him, not just selecting him and bashing some buttons while standing still in the back
All attacks, spells , swings and everything is aimed by you peronally seeing as you cannot personally target anything. This of course also means that you can dodge every attack, the class (Trickster) is especially adept at this. This game also offers up no auto attack so your only way to deal damage is to use the skills in your skilldeck which once again you will need to aim. I think the goal of this game was to make it rely alot heavier on skill rather than on stats and gear as gear is purely cosmetic (meaning it has no stats or is all equal until the end of the few last levels). I have heard the gameplay being described as Fantasy FPS MMORPG many a time if that helps because its truely revolutionary. I guess you could also throw in some strategy because you have to plan your skill deck, anyways here are some videos , the writing is in a different language but the links should provide good examples i believe, enjoy . Hope this helps
Imagine an engine about a decade old that can't render a character model to save it's life. Now imagine hundreds of people looking ugly as sin in freakish models poorly rendered. Now imagine they are doing stuff. Now imagine what your parents would say if they knew you spent thousands on a comp just to play a mmorpg that looks last gen. Fact of the matter is it doesn't matter how it plays. Asheron's Call 1 plays better then most mmorpg's out today but do we bust out our ugly dated battlemage to get our mmo on? No we moved on, well most of us did.
here is the gameplay in a nutshell.... Imagine an engine about a decade old that can't render a character model to save it's life. Now imagine hundreds of people looking ugly as sin in freakish models poorly rendered. Now imagine they are doing stuff. Now imagine what your parents would say if they knew you spent thousands on a comp just to play a mmorpg that looks last gen. Fact of the matter is it doesn't matter how it plays. Asheron's Call 1 plays better then most mmorpg's out today but do we bust out our ugly dated battlemage to get our mmo on? No we moved on, well most of us did. edit: No I haven't actually played the game.
lol? why are you so angry..... anyways yeah the graphics aren't the games major feature but jesus for not even playing the game and giving the game this rap i would swear the dev of this game raped his mother.
For using the Unreal 2.5 engine, Spellborn looks amazing. It shows what a difference excellent art direction can make. I'd rather have simpler but beautiful graphics than highly-detailed but completely generic crappy visuals (I'm talking to you, Vanguard fans).
If you want a real harsh death penalty, go play Russian Roulet. - Hamzal
For using the Unreal 2.5 engine, Spellborn looks amazing. It shows what a difference excellent art direction can make. I'd rather have simpler but beautiful graphics than highly-detailed but completely generic crappy visuals (I'm talking to you, Vanguard fans).
Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, most Western PC games devs favor high-poly / low-artistic value than the other way around.
here is the gameplay in a nutshell.... Imagine an engine about a decade old that can't render a character model to save it's life. Now imagine hundreds of people looking ugly as sin in freakish models poorly rendered. Now imagine they are doing stuff. Now imagine what your parents would say if they knew you spent thousands on a comp just to play a mmorpg that looks last gen. Fact of the matter is it doesn't matter how it plays. Asheron's Call 1 plays better then most mmorpg's out today but do we bust out our ugly dated battlemage to get our mmo on? No we moved on, well most of us did. edit: No I haven't actually played the game.
World of warcraft has low polygon models, I mean if you switch of the textures you'll be amazed about how simple the models are (been there done that) besides that the textures are rather simple, if you zoom in they get real blurry. Although the graphics aren't the most advanced ones this game is still a lot of fun to most people. (just see how many subscriptions wow has, so obviously a lot of people enjoy this game) Conclusion, best graphics available aren't a must for a good game.
(Oh and although the engine may be not the newest one around I still think the CoS graphics a really nice)
here is the gameplay in a nutshell.... Imagine an engine about a decade old that can't render a character model to save it's life. Now imagine hundreds of people looking ugly as sin in freakish models poorly rendered. Now imagine they are doing stuff. Now imagine what your parents would say if they knew you spent thousands on a comp just to play a mmorpg that looks last gen. Fact of the matter is it doesn't matter how it plays. Asheron's Call 1 plays better then most mmorpg's out today but do we bust out our ugly dated battlemage to get our mmo on? No we moved on, well most of us did. edit: No I haven't actually played the game.
World of warcraft has low polygon models, I mean if you switch of the textures you'll be amazed about how simple the models are (been there done that) besides that the textures are rather simple, if you zoom in they get real blurry. Although the graphics aren't the most advanced ones this game is still a lot of fun to most people. (just see how many subscriptions wow has, so obviously a lot of people enjoy this game) Conclusion, best graphics available aren't a must for a good game.
(Oh and although the engine may be not the newest one around I still think the CoS graphics a really nice)
World of Warcraft has been out for over 2 years now. Comparing this game's graphic's to WoW isn't doing TCoS any favors. Also you are making the assumption that WoW is a good game as well and it's large player base confirms this. I won't lie, it does have some redeeming qualities, you don't sell 8 million copies by producing crap, however I am certain that if it required a higher system requirement a significient portion of its playerbase would disperse. I mean damn my Blackberry could run this (well not really but you get the point).
I know the team working on this has worked very hard, and I didn't mean to sound like an elitist and I probably will try it out as I do all mmo's (if I can find a buddy key, no way am I paying $50 for this), but maybe I am a graphics whore (yes I did get Vista and a DX10 card), I just can't justify paying a monthly fee which will probably end up being $15+. The gameplay will have to be truly revolutionary for me to make that sacrifice.
I'll gladly eat my words if someone throw's me a buddy pass when it hits.
The games visuals look more than fine from the screenshots I have seen. I would be more interested in the game mechanics as that is what will make or break the game.
here is the gameplay in a nutshell.... Imagine an engine about a decade old that can't render a character model to save it's life. Now imagine hundreds of people looking ugly as sin in freakish models poorly rendered. Now imagine they are doing stuff. Now imagine what your parents would say if they knew you spent thousands on a comp just to play a mmorpg that looks last gen. Fact of the matter is it doesn't matter how it plays. Asheron's Call 1 plays better then most mmorpg's out today but do we bust out our ugly dated battlemage to get our mmo on? No we moved on, well most of us did. edit: No I haven't actually played the game.
The unreal 2.5 engine is NOT last gen. its CURRENT gen when we are talking about MMORPG's. Vanguard is using a 2.x engine, Ragnarok 2 will use a 2.5 engine. 3.0 engine is NEXT gen, not current gen. Have fun moving on to another game because of the graphics...because there is no other mmorpg with unreal 3.0 engine.
here is the gameplay in a nutshell.... Imagine an engine about a decade old that can't render a character model to save it's life. Now imagine hundreds of people looking ugly as sin in freakish models poorly rendered. Now imagine they are doing stuff. Now imagine what your parents would say if they knew you spent thousands on a comp just to play a mmorpg that looks last gen. Fact of the matter is it doesn't matter how it plays. Asheron's Call 1 plays better then most mmorpg's out today but do we bust out our ugly dated battlemage to get our mmo on? No we moved on, well most of us did. edit: No I haven't actually played the game.
The unreal 2.5 engine is NOT last gen. its CURRENT gen when we are talking about MMORPG's. Vanguard is using a 2.x engine, Ragnarok 2 will use a 2.5 engine. 3.0 engine is NEXT gen, not current gen. Have fun moving on to another game because of the graphics...because there is no other mmorpg with unreal 3.0 engine.
Just to add to what GL was saying. The ONLY MMO's that I know of ATM that will be using UE3.0 are Lineage 3 and Stargate Worlds, both of which are far from actual development stripes so there's plenty of time to change the engine should they choose too.
UE2.0 and 2.5 is a massive quality engine and is FAR from being outdated. I would even go so far as to say that over the next 3 years we'll see it turn into the one of the prefered MMO genre engines along with the Hero Engine, which needs work but has tons of potential.
How about Age of Conan? Huxley? All Points Bulletin?
...all Unreal 3.
...which sucks about as bad as 2.x
EDIT: SUN
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title. "When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
How about Age of Conan? Huxley? All Points Bulletin?
...all Unreal 3.
...which sucks about as bad as 2.x
EDIT: SUN
I wasn't aware of Huxley or API are planning to use EU3.0, good on them but my bad.
I was under the impression that AoC was using Funcom's DreamWorld Engine and IDV's Speedtree though???
At least that's what it says on AoC's official web page HERE (<--- linky) and the Wikipedia description HERE (<--- Linky). If I'm wrong then by all means CG, correct me.
You saying it sucks and ending it at there though... priceless.
By the way CG, I figured instead of just being snippy with you, I should actualy state some reasons why I "think" the UE xx is a great platform for MMORPGs of the future. Maybe instead of just saying it sucks, you actually add to the conversation and share with us why?
Portability:
From the very start, begining with UE 1.x, it has been built using pure, simple, base C++. This enabled multiple platforms such as windows/pc, GNU Linux/MAC OS and cross consoles (think xbox, ps, ps2, dreamcast) to be supported. EU basically started unified cross platforming.
Intergration:
UE was one of the first platforms to internally intergrate Rendering, AI / AI-E, FSM (file system management), Collision Detection, DCSV (distance cross section vectoring and visibility). Obviously later adding shader filtering and all it's curent technolgies. On an engineering level, this was absolutely astonishing and ground breaking. While sometimes hitting on the performance side of things, no one can deny the revolutionary thinking over at Epic.
Scalibility:
Want an engine that supports multi plexing and tri vectoring? Not a problem. Want an engine that will do both Dx9 and Dx10, either 32 or 64 bit for both? Not a problem. Want an engine that can work with both PS3 Bit Game Developer files or Xbox360 MS GameTech Tools? Done.
Ease of use and Support:
While Unrealscript not being the easier to understand, almost any technical school out there that has a gaming program will dedicate a certain amount of time to unrealscript. Why? Because it is so well known now, because it's so wildly used and not just in games. It's used in all sorts of sim's raning from block to hellicopte sims, used in disaster recovery sims and used in industrial engineering planning.
The UDN network is a huge bonus to using UE. At any given point, any developer with a login and passward can log in to the UDN network, ask a developer directly a question and recieve support within seconds. SECONDS, not minutes, seconds.
------------
No I don't work for epic, no I'm not developing a game that works off of UE nor do I care what anyone uses for their game so long as it's a quality product. I just believe we should fair when commenting and this is why I think, AT THE VERY LEAST, we should NOT just easily dissmiss the hard work from Epic on Unreal Engine by saying it sucks without reason, especially when they have done more for the gaming industry then "SOME" could ever hope.
Ok... guess I was wrong about AoC. I could've sworn I read it was using Unreal though...
And as for the Unreal engine. I truely dislike it for multiple reasons... one of which is it's a "quick fix" so that the company can turn around and make money. Like all Middleware... it's a way for a company to skip doing it themselves. I dislike almost all middleware, but Unreal holds a special place.
It comes from working for a game company, and meeting others who work for game companies. It comes from listening to the excuse "well if we had Unreal" every time something doesn't work out right the first time with highly impatient artists. It's absolutely impossible to explain I guess... so I can't blame you for calling me on that, cause I can't explain it... it's something you'd have to live or know somebody living it. One of my best friends works for a company using Torque, and he wants to kill artists regularly for saying it.
I guess you might be able to think of it as the "WoW" of game engines. It's the engine you love to hate, but everybody you know uses it.
It doesn't help that every time I look at the minreqs of an Unreal powered game it's so high. Much higher then it should be when you look at similarly graphic abilities in other engines with much lower requirements. Every time I see a game using Unreal I think "If they built their own engine, I wonder what the minimum requirements would be."
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title. "When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
Ok... guess I was wrong about AoC. I could've sworn I read it was using Unreal though...
And as for the Unreal engine. I truely dislike it for multiple reasons... one of which is it's a "quick fix" so that the company can turn around and make money. Like all Middleware... it's a way for a company to skip doing it themselves. I dislike almost all middleware, but Unreal holds a special place.
It comes from working for a game company, and meeting others who work for game companies. It comes from listening to the excuse "well if we had Unreal" every time something doesn't work out right the first time with highly impatient artists. It's absolutely impossible to explain I guess... so I can't blame you for calling me on that, cause I can't explain it... it's something you'd have to live or know somebody living it. One of my best friends works for a company using Torque, and he wants to kill artists regularly for saying it.
I guess you might be able to think of it as the "WoW" of game engines. It's the engine you love to hate, but everybody you know uses it.
It doesn't help that every time I look at the minreqs of an Unreal powered game it's so high. Much higher then it should be when you look at similarly graphic abilities in other engines with much lower requirements. Every time I see a game using Unreal I think "If they built their own engine, I wonder what the minimum requirements would be."
I guess that's the difference between you and I CG.
I actually respect WoW and the people that developed it and don't see calling anything "The WoW of game engines" or the "WoW of anything" as demeaning. I can only hope that as my career moves forward, I one day get to influence the game market as the people at Blizzard have. At least in a way that I feel is right.
But hey, you have a personal thing against Unreal Engine because of personal experiences using the engine and NOT because of the actual engine. I just think it's important you make things like that clear when you show absolutely no respect for the people at Epic who have done 100x for the gaming community then you have.
I think Blizzard did a great job with WoW. It's a game I enjoyed very much so to be honest... I have friends who work at Blizzard, and 1 who works at Vivindi. I wish I was as lucky as them.
I think Epic did a great job with Unreal. They realized a great business opportunity and took it, no joke there. I'm just anti-middleware when it comes to game development. I think there are many companies that can do many great things with Unreal... I'm looking forward to BioShock myself, and even Spellborn. But there are some companies who use Unreal who are not so good with the technology.
I used the analogy loosely to explain why some people might be against a particular thing.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title. "When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
I think Blizzard did a great job with WoW. It's a game I enjoyed very much so to be honest... I have friends who work at Blizzard, and 1 who works at Vivindi. I wish I was as lucky as them.
I think Epic did a great job with Unreal. They realized a great business opportunity and took it, no joke there. I'm just anti-middleware when it comes to game development. I think there are many companies that can do many great things with Unreal... I'm looking forward to BioShock myself, and even Spellborn. But there are some companies who use Unreal who are not so good with the technology.
I used the analogy loosely to explain why some people might be against a particular thing.
Glad you cleared that up. It's only fair and all that.
Wouldn't you know it though, small world, I know a few people over at Blizzard also. We'll have to compare notes some day, would be scary to think we know some of the same people.
How about Age of Conan? Huxley? All Points Bulletin?
...all Unreal 3.
...which sucks about as bad as 2.x
EDIT: SUN
Age of Conan is not using the Unreal 3 engine, and neither is SUN. Huxley and All Point Bulletin are using the 3.0 engine, but they are still under development and won't releas untill end of this year (if everything is going according to plan).
the unreal 3 engine doesn't sucks, Just take a good look at Gears of War.
here is the gameplay in a nutshell.... Imagine an engine about a decade old that can't render a character model to save it's life. Now imagine hundreds of people looking ugly as sin in freakish models poorly rendered. Now imagine they are doing stuff. Now imagine what your parents would say if they knew you spent thousands on a comp just to play a mmorpg that looks last gen. Fact of the matter is it doesn't matter how it plays. Asheron's Call 1 plays better then most mmorpg's out today but do we bust out our ugly dated battlemage to get our mmo on? No we moved on, well most of us did. edit: No I haven't actually played the game.
Amazing. You know all this even though you've never played the game. Simply amazing.
Comments
you need to AIM on your target, like you do in first person shooters, so if you heal, you need to keep moving and keep an eye on your target to heal him, not just selecting him and bashing some buttons while standing still in the back
Fragland.net - Fragland Arcade - Fragland.be - ScifiBelgium
How are you doing, Miss Behaving?
All attacks, spells , swings and everything is aimed by you peronally seeing as you cannot personally target anything. This of course also means that you can dodge every attack, the class (Trickster) is especially adept at this. This game also offers up no auto attack so your only way to deal damage is to use the skills in your skilldeck which once again you will need to aim. I think the goal of this game was to make it rely alot heavier on skill rather than on stats and gear as gear is purely cosmetic (meaning it has no stats or is all equal until the end of the few last levels). I have heard the gameplay being described as Fantasy FPS MMORPG many a time if that helps because its truely revolutionary. I guess you could also throw in some strategy because you have to plan your skill deck, anyways here are some videos , the writing is in a different language but the links should provide good examples i believe, enjoy . Hope this helps
http://www.tcos.com/sbforum/viewtopic.php?t=6728
here is the gameplay in a nutshell....
Imagine an engine about a decade old that can't render a character model to save it's life. Now imagine hundreds of people looking ugly as sin in freakish models poorly rendered. Now imagine they are doing stuff. Now imagine what your parents would say if they knew you spent thousands on a comp just to play a mmorpg that looks last gen. Fact of the matter is it doesn't matter how it plays. Asheron's Call 1 plays better then most mmorpg's out today but do we bust out our ugly dated battlemage to get our mmo on? No we moved on, well most of us did.
edit: No I haven't actually played the game.
If you want a real harsh death penalty, go play Russian Roulet. - Hamzal
well we will see how the game pans out in events to come since it is growing closer to us and then we can see more of the set in stone gameply
(Oh and although the engine may be not the newest one around I still think the CoS graphics a really nice)
(Oh and although the engine may be not the newest one around I still think the CoS graphics a really nice)
World of Warcraft has been out for over 2 years now. Comparing this game's graphic's to WoW isn't doing TCoS any favors. Also you are making the assumption that WoW is a good game as well and it's large player base confirms this. I won't lie, it does have some redeeming qualities, you don't sell 8 million copies by producing crap, however I am certain that if it required a higher system requirement a significient portion of its playerbase would disperse. I mean damn my Blackberry could run this (well not really but you get the point).
I know the team working on this has worked very hard, and I didn't mean to sound like an elitist and I probably will try it out as I do all mmo's (if I can find a buddy key, no way am I paying $50 for this), but maybe I am a graphics whore (yes I did get Vista and a DX10 card), I just can't justify paying a monthly fee which will probably end up being $15+. The gameplay will have to be truly revolutionary for me to make that sacrifice.
I'll gladly eat my words if someone throw's me a buddy pass when it hits.
cheers
If you want a real harsh death penalty, go play Russian Roulet. - Hamzal
Just to add to what GL was saying. The ONLY MMO's that I know of ATM that will be using UE3.0 are Lineage 3 and Stargate Worlds, both of which are far from actual development stripes so there's plenty of time to change the engine should they choose too.
UE2.0 and 2.5 is a massive quality engine and is FAR from being outdated. I would even go so far as to say that over the next 3 years we'll see it turn into the one of the prefered MMO genre engines along with the Hero Engine, which needs work but has tons of potential.
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...all Unreal 3.
...which sucks about as bad as 2.x
EDIT: SUN
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
I wasn't aware of Huxley or API are planning to use EU3.0, good on them but my bad.
I was under the impression that AoC was using Funcom's DreamWorld Engine and IDV's Speedtree though???
At least that's what it says on AoC's official web page HERE (<--- linky) and the Wikipedia description HERE (<--- Linky). If I'm wrong then by all means CG, correct me.
You saying it sucks and ending it at there though... priceless.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
By the way CG, I figured instead of just being snippy with you, I should actualy state some reasons why I "think" the UE xx is a great platform for MMORPGs of the future. Maybe instead of just saying it sucks, you actually add to the conversation and share with us why?
Portability:
From the very start, begining with UE 1.x, it has been built using pure, simple, base C++. This enabled multiple platforms such as windows/pc, GNU Linux/MAC OS and cross consoles (think xbox, ps, ps2, dreamcast) to be supported. EU basically started unified cross platforming.
Intergration:
UE was one of the first platforms to internally intergrate Rendering, AI / AI-E, FSM (file system management), Collision Detection, DCSV (distance cross section vectoring and visibility). Obviously later adding shader filtering and all it's curent technolgies. On an engineering level, this was absolutely astonishing and ground breaking. While sometimes hitting on the performance side of things, no one can deny the revolutionary thinking over at Epic.
Scalibility:
Want an engine that supports multi plexing and tri vectoring? Not a problem. Want an engine that will do both Dx9 and Dx10, either 32 or 64 bit for both? Not a problem. Want an engine that can work with both PS3 Bit Game Developer files or Xbox360 MS GameTech Tools? Done.
Ease of use and Support:
While Unrealscript not being the easier to understand, almost any technical school out there that has a gaming program will dedicate a certain amount of time to unrealscript. Why? Because it is so well known now, because it's so wildly used and not just in games. It's used in all sorts of sim's raning from block to hellicopte sims, used in disaster recovery sims and used in industrial engineering planning.
The UDN network is a huge bonus to using UE. At any given point, any developer with a login and passward can log in to the UDN network, ask a developer directly a question and recieve support within seconds. SECONDS, not minutes, seconds.
------------
No I don't work for epic, no I'm not developing a game that works off of UE nor do I care what anyone uses for their game so long as it's a quality product. I just believe we should fair when commenting and this is why I think, AT THE VERY LEAST, we should NOT just easily dissmiss the hard work from Epic on Unreal Engine by saying it sucks without reason, especially when they have done more for the gaming industry then "SOME" could ever hope.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
And as for the Unreal engine. I truely dislike it for multiple reasons... one of which is it's a "quick fix" so that the company can turn around and make money. Like all Middleware... it's a way for a company to skip doing it themselves. I dislike almost all middleware, but Unreal holds a special place.
It comes from working for a game company, and meeting others who work for game companies. It comes from listening to the excuse "well if we had Unreal" every time something doesn't work out right the first time with highly impatient artists. It's absolutely impossible to explain I guess... so I can't blame you for calling me on that, cause I can't explain it... it's something you'd have to live or know somebody living it. One of my best friends works for a company using Torque, and he wants to kill artists regularly for saying it.
I guess you might be able to think of it as the "WoW" of game engines. It's the engine you love to hate, but everybody you know uses it.
It doesn't help that every time I look at the minreqs of an Unreal powered game it's so high. Much higher then it should be when you look at similarly graphic abilities in other engines with much lower requirements. Every time I see a game using Unreal I think "If they built their own engine, I wonder what the minimum requirements would be."
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
I guess that's the difference between you and I CG.
I actually respect WoW and the people that developed it and don't see calling anything "The WoW of game engines" or the "WoW of anything" as demeaning. I can only hope that as my career moves forward, I one day get to influence the game market as the people at Blizzard have. At least in a way that I feel is right.
But hey, you have a personal thing against Unreal Engine because of personal experiences using the engine and NOT because of the actual engine. I just think it's important you make things like that clear when you show absolutely no respect for the people at Epic who have done 100x for the gaming community then you have.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
I think Blizzard did a great job with WoW. It's a game I enjoyed very much so to be honest... I have friends who work at Blizzard, and 1 who works at Vivindi. I wish I was as lucky as them.
I think Epic did a great job with Unreal. They realized a great business opportunity and took it, no joke there. I'm just anti-middleware when it comes to game development. I think there are many companies that can do many great things with Unreal... I'm looking forward to BioShock myself, and even Spellborn. But there are some companies who use Unreal who are not so good with the technology.
I used the analogy loosely to explain why some people might be against a particular thing.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
Glad you cleared that up. It's only fair and all that.
Wouldn't you know it though, small world, I know a few people over at Blizzard also. We'll have to compare notes some day, would be scary to think we know some of the same people.
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the unreal 3 engine doesn't sucks, Just take a good look at Gears of War.