You should know me better than that by now Anarchyart, I don't get mad at petty things like what your trying to do, I'm sooooooooo over those childish forums days. And honestly, I don't need you to give me persmission to enjoy myself I'll have plenty of fun with whatever game I decide to spend time with, for me there's no point in doing it otherwise. No, my only concern was that you've gone from a forum goer I used to actually enjoy reading, go out of my way to read actually and respect quite a bit, to turning into a fanbois who actually thinks less of others who don't agree with him. Might I even say that this seems quite indicative of current community that's in the game itself, maybe you have indeed found your true home Anachyart, shame it's brought out the worse in you. As always though, I certainly wish you all the best fun in the world in Vanguard or any other game, because that's what they are no? Games. So long as your having fun, who cares whether its' the best out there or not.
I was not trying to get you mad, merely making a point. One that you seem hell bent on avoiding at all costs. That Vanguard, despite you calling it on several occasions a "dog of a game", is now your current home. And the reason for that is? Drumroll please...you are bored sick, like me, of about every other MMORPG. Therefore, it is the best game available for you, for me, and for many others. You can go through semantics all you want and resort to calling me a fanboi who thinks less of others who don't agree with him, but the fact of the matter is you are playing it.
I don't think any less of people who disagree with me, unless they are just doing it for their own selfish reasons or in a callous or disrespectful manner. And no, my dear, these are not just games. They are places too. And if someone can post that Vanguard is buggy and dying, then I can post that it is the best game available, especially since that's what I think.
City of Villains is ahead of Vanguard of at least 5 years, design-wise.
Despite been a superhero MMO, it somehow have much more subscribers than Vanguard who is a fantasy game.
City of Villains: - Encourage grouping, never enforce it I find it really annoying when people argue each point individually, especially in different coloured text in response to each point you make. It seems to break apart the nice picture we construct when making a post, and having some nerd nitpick it into just a list of statements and facts can be damn annoying. Nethertheless, I'm going to do it here, because I'm feeling nerdy.
Vanguard does not FORCE grouping. Period. At level 26, which is waaay higher than the average atm, I STILL prefer to solo when exping. I don't have to worry about other people botching my nice rythmn of progression, and I can take a bathroom break without permission. There are still CoH style solo quests to break up the monotony of the grind, and there are still ENTIRE ISLANDS of solo encounters. This game is SO BIG, that you just need to look for it. Granted, it's not handed to you on a plate, you actually have to you know... adventure.. a bit. But grouping is encouraged - because there are some nice rewards - not that you can't get these rewards solo. You are aware that so far, DIPLOMACY is a solo activity? Crafting is also mostly solo, and so is harvesting. And grouping is fun too, I don't know what you're going on about when you say it's not fun.
This is not encouraged, this is FORCED. Encouraged would give rewards that matters and make you better in groups, FORCED give the better rewards period. In order to become a better soloer, someone is better with grouping tools, which mean that grouping is FORCED on the soloers. There are all kinds of dangerous and rewarding dungeons for groups, most of them have not been discovered yet. How can that not be fun or encouraging?
Again, this is FORCED, a lot more than just encouraged. I am all for, I am a grouper, but not at the expanse of solo...and soloers are left way behind, as weakling. - Solo is good, grouping is great And it's really annoying when people post "see above" in response to a point you made. It not only implies laziness on behalf of the poster, it's making the suggestion that you're making redundant points. Unfortunately in your case, this is a redundant point, see above. See above for a disctintion between FORCED and ENCOURAGED. CoV encouraged grouping. Vanguard FORCE grouping.
- Customisation. And what's EVEN MORE annoying is when someone agrees with you on a point, it kinds of deflates the idea that they're just blindly defending the game every point, and you might need to consider what they say rationally. I bloody hate it when they do that! Unfortunately, you're right, CoH has the best character customization in any game I've ever played. Vanguard's is pretty good as well though, except that they need more hairstyles. Have you seen how much you can adjust in Vanguard? - Instancing allow you to do your mission with a close-knit group, in private, with no artificial respawn. Equally annoying is when someone in reponse to what appears to be a valid argument, plays the "it's different strokes for different folks" card. It's like you can't criticize anything anymore, because someone always pulls that damn "opinion" card. Can't we ever call something crap, without some namby-pamby saying it's all about opinion?
It's all about opinion. Some people want to play MMORPGs to only interact with other people when they want to. Others want something more like an open world, life-like in that sometimes have to compete for what you want.
Vanguard also offers encounter-based instancing, eliminating some of the problems associated without instancing. The drakes that spawn on a particular point of a quest in Qalia for example, are all outside of instances. These are "massively multiplayer" games you know, sectioning them all into instances might be fun for some people, but it's just a waste the "massive" portion of the experience for others.
Competition between me and FoH for an area, a mob, a place, this is something nobody want to witness, except FoH who actually grovel for such incidents. FoH will find way to screw with other players, cause they like it that way. Instancing would make you immune to players wanting to screw your experience. Now, in Vanguard, it is possible to train other players, this is all FoH ever wants.
Instancing is great, lack of it is weak. Interaction with other players can be strictly positive with good use of instancing.
- Travels powers are FUN and not removing anything from travelling except the tedius part. And then blam. The annoying guy in red text refutes your point so succinctly that you just really want to stop reading the read text, and pretend he doesn't exist... In Vanguard you get mounts at an early level, not just horses - camels and other beasts too, at later levels you get flying mounts - griffins... and more exotic beasts, that YOU control.
You can FLY in Vanguard. There are boats that you BUILD and SAIL ACROSS OCEANS!. Bards travel and pretty insane speeds and can act as a taxi for your group. There is a "call of the hero" type spell there too, I'm pretty sure. If any of that isn't your definition of FUN, then I think you need councelling from a Fun Doctor.
You can FLY, JUMP and cross zones in no time in CoV. Vanguard isn't even allowing full vertical movement, but partial flying movement. Vanguard travel time is LONG, unecessary LONG. CoV is fast and optional, you are done FAST. What is the point to sail on oceans when you can fly?
- More power diversity than Vanguard, which has how many class? Here we are talking of 5 AT X about 5 primary X about 5 secondaries X secondaries/epic...the variation is enormous. Then... The guy with red text suggests something which will only annoy you. Comparing a "classless" game to a "class-based" game is like comparing apples and oranges. The guy with red text is using cliched analogies. Does that mean that the argument isn't very good or that he just isn't very original? I'm not sure, I just know that I hate cliches.
CoV has 5 AT, or classes...yet more than 125 unique set. Not like 10 or 15...such as Vanguard...125 is a LOT better than 10 in my book. Vanguard is left deadly wounded on this topic. Even with raid-free servers Vanguard would be backward, yet I would have try it post-beta, but there is no point in trying an inferior game that ends miserably. Another refuted point. Is the guy with red text obsessed or what? He certainly is a sarcastic S.O.B.
So far, there have been no raids in Vanguard. The developers have stated that 20% of the game will be raid based, and so far, we've seen none of it. The game still offers so damn much before you hit the higher levels and begin to consider raiding.
So what, when someone raids a dragon the game ends for everyone else who is not at the level cap? Solo and group content is going to dissappear is it? Sigil are going to lie to us when they say that not all of the best rewards will come from raiding? Diplomacy is going to dissapear is it? Crafting is going to just vanish? I didn't think so.
Raiding will make all non-raiders 20% weaker. 20% weaker is effectively making you a weakling, not even close to compete in the rest of the game, so you have to raid or quit. - Flame away Vanbois, but I am not afraid to answer your empty claims... I am a Vanboi. I am proud of it. My claims are not empty, they are full of juicy red goodness. Ok enough of the rhetoric, I'm running out of red ink. I'm just going to debunk your arguments quickly and efficiently from now on.
You are full of yourself, ego-centered and thinking you pwns while you write, like this is skills or something.
- LACK of instancing is an inferiority, as it lead to players competing and been harsh, I even see peoples fighting for spawn areas in CoV once, they just didn't understand it was pointless, they have been trained and schooled by the wrong MMOs, re-educating them lead them to a lot of happiness as they realize that camping was pointless, it was automatically respawning without the need to clean it dimwittly, you just run around and it respawn automatically. Advanced Encounter System. Read up on it. I believe I mentioned it earlier. You will come back with a good excuse for not knowing about it, won't you?
Advance TRAINS. No thanks.
- seemless is pointless if the traveling isn't fun or if it bring lag... Pointless! Except that the world isn't a collection of enclosed zones like a theme park, ala EQ2, and you're not limited to very low engine specifications to keep it transition-free, ala-WoW. I mean as soon as you have to load for a few seconds between chunks... the whole game becomes pointless. I mean, they should have put big walls around the chunks so it wouldn't be pointless shouldn't they?
Seemless doesn't create a gameplay, but it creates lag.
- raiding endgame, ROFL. ROFLMAOLMABBQ. Er, what was I trying to say?
That I am right, non-raiders are 20% weakers and unable to compete seriously in non-raiding content.
- Enforced grouping is inferior to encouraged grouping. Er. Last time I checked I wasn't forced to join any group. Was someone holding a gun to your head? Did you have trouble finding some mobs that said "HEY LOOK AT ME I'M SOLO CONTENT LET ME HOLD YOUR HAND". Damn, those evil monsters sure are inconsiderate when it comes to identifying themselves as potential targets. Best soloers should be soloers, best groupers have to be groupers. You seem unable to make the distinction between encouraged and enforced. You want peoples to CHOOSE to group, not to group because they can't be strong enough to face the solo challenges they want by soloing. - Many of the players attracted to Vanguard are the worst I know, in this sense I am thankful to Vanguard for taking the trash out of the other MMOs. *wave FoH/AL/LoS* Like players who respond in red? Yeah, thank god all those players are gone!
Yup, I am happy to not be sharing the same game you would, it make me happier and the whole population better, read for yourself...peoples are saying that Vanguard has the worst community ever.
Vanguard is among the worst MMOs out there, the only reason I was interested is...because I am a freaking achiever and there is a lot to achieve in the game...but it is pointless when it all end in raiding, which is un-achievement embodied. Achieving to reach un-achievement? Nonsense. Now, the market is filled with players who aren't achievers, having so much achievements isn't wise IMO; and the few achievers who might enjoy it will usually not enjoy how it end for 1 moment. A raiding game huh? Ok, you keep telling yourself that. And if the truth finally comes around and smacks you in the face, I bet it's coloured red. Gimme 20% extra power over YOU in any game, and you will be a second rated toon, ultimately weak and never up to par. Now make all my friends as strong as I am, and then you will maybe understand what it is when an unfairness happen. You are on the abusing side, and thereby deserve my comptempt.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Vanguard travel time is LONG, unecessary LONG. CoV is fast and optional, you are done FAST. What is the point to sail on oceans when you can fly?
The travel is part of the immersion. You can really feel you are in a huge world. I'm very glad it is this way; I want to play in this world not just port to some grinding place over and over again. I have seen enough games that are fun in the beginning but get boring very fast.
As for the boats: the flying mounts cannot fly for long distances over the seas and they cannot carry as much stuff as the boats. So the boats will always be needed.
City of Villains is ahead of Vanguard of at least 5 years, design-wise.
Despite been a superhero MMO, it somehow have much more subscribers than Vanguard who is a fantasy game.
City of Villains: - Encourage grouping, never enforce it I find it really annoying when people argue each point individually, especially in different coloured text in response to each point you make. It seems to break apart the nice picture we construct when making a post, and having some nerd nitpick it into just a list of statements and facts can be damn annoying. Nethertheless, I'm going to do it here, because I'm feeling nerdy.
Vanguard does not FORCE grouping. Period. At level 26, which is waaay higher than the average atm, I STILL prefer to solo when exping. I don't have to worry about other people botching my nice rythmn of progression, and I can take a bathroom break without permission. There are still CoH style solo quests to break up the monotony of the grind, and there are still ENTIRE ISLANDS of solo encounters. This game is SO BIG, that you just need to look for it. Granted, it's not handed to you on a plate, you actually have to you know... adventure.. a bit. But grouping is encouraged - because there are some nice rewards - not that you can't get these rewards solo. You are aware that so far, DIPLOMACY is a solo activity? Crafting is also mostly solo, and so is harvesting. And grouping is fun too, I don't know what you're going on about when you say it's not fun.
There are all kinds of dangerous and rewarding dungeons for groups, most of them have not been discovered yet. How can that not be fun or encouraging?
- Solo is good, grouping is great And it's really annoying when people post "see above" in response to a point you made. It not only implies laziness on behalf of the poster, it's making the suggestion that you're making redundant points. Unfortunately in your case, this is a redundant point, see above.
- Customisation. And what's EVEN MORE annoying is when someone agrees with you on a point, it kinds of deflates the idea that they're just blindly defending the game every point, and you might need to consider what they say rationally. I bloody hate it when they do that! Unfortunately, you're right, CoH has the best character customization in any game I've ever played. Vanguard's is pretty good as well though, except that they need more hairstyles. Have you seen how much you can adjust in Vanguard? - Instancing allow you to do your mission with a close-knit group, in private, with no artificial respawn. Equally annoying is when someone in reponse to what appears to be a valid argument, plays the "it's different strokes for different folks" card. It's like you can't criticize anything anymore, because someone always pulls that damn "opinion" card. Can't we ever call something crap, without some namby-pamby saying it's all about opinion?
It's all about opinion. Some people want to play MMORPGs to only interact with other people when they want to. Others want something more like an open world, life-like in that sometimes have to compete for what you want.
Vanguard also offers encounter-based instancing, eliminating some of the problems associated without instancing. The drakes that spawn on a particular point of a quest in Qalia for example, are all outside of instances. These are "massively multiplayer" games you know, sectioning them all into instances might be fun for some people, but it's just a waste the "massive" portion of the experience for others. - Travels powers are FUN and not removing anything from travelling except the tedius part. And then blam. The annoying guy in red text refutes your point so succinctly that you just really want to stop reading the read text, and pretend he doesn't exist... In Vanguard you get mounts at an early level, not just horses - camels and other beasts too, at later levels you get flying mounts - griffins... and more exotic beasts, that YOU control.
You can FLY in Vanguard. There are boats that you BUILD and SAIL ACROSS OCEANS!. Bards travel and pretty insane speeds and can act as a taxi for your group. There is a "call of the hero" type spell there too, I'm pretty sure. If any of that isn't your definition of FUN, then I think you need councelling from a Fun Doctor. - More power diversity than Vanguard, which has how many class? Here we are talking of 5 AT X about 5 primary X about 5 secondaries X secondaries/epic...the variation is enormous. Then... The guy with red text suggests something which will only annoy you. Comparing a "classless" game to a "class-based" game is like comparing apples and oranges. The guy with red text is using cliched analogies. Does that mean that the argument isn't very good or that he just isn't very original? I'm not sure, I just know that I hate cliches.
Even with raid-free servers Vanguard would be backward, yet I would have try it post-beta, but there is no point in trying an inferior game that ends miserably. Another refuted point. Is the guy with red text obsessed or what? He certainly is a sarcastic S.O.B.
So far, there have been no raids in Vanguard. The developers have stated that 20% of the game will be raid based, and so far, we've seen none of it. The game still offers so damn much before you hit the higher levels and begin to consider raiding.
So what, when someone raids a dragon the game ends for everyone else who is not at the level cap? Solo and group content is going to dissappear is it? Sigil are going to lie to us when they say that not all of the best rewards will come from raiding? Diplomacy is going to dissapear is it? Crafting is going to just vanish? I didn't think so.
- Flame away Vanbois, but I am not afraid to answer your empty claims... I am a Vanboi. I am proud of it. My claims are not empty, they are full of juicy red goodness. Ok enough of the rhetoric, I'm running out of red ink. I'm just going to debunk your arguments quickly and efficiently from now on.
- LACK of instancing is an inferiority, as it lead to players competing and been harsh, I even see peoples fighting for spawn areas in CoV once, they just didn't understand it was pointless, they have been trained and schooled by the wrong MMOs, re-educating them lead them to a lot of happiness as they realize that camping was pointless, it was automatically respawning without the need to clean it dimwittly, you just run around and it respawn automatically. Advanced Encounter System. Read up on it. I believe I mentioned it earlier. You will come back with a good excuse for not knowing about it, won't you?
- seemless is pointless if the traveling isn't fun or if it bring lag... Pointless! Except that the world isn't a collection of enclosed zones like a theme park, ala EQ2, and you're not limited to very low engine specifications to keep it transition-free, ala-WoW. I mean as soon as you have to load for a few seconds between chunks... the whole game becomes pointless. I mean, they should have put big walls around the chunks so it wouldn't be pointless shouldn't they?
- raiding endgame, ROFL. ROFLMAOLMABBQ. Er, what was I trying to say?
- Enforced grouping is inferior to encouraged grouping. Er. Last time I checked I wasn't forced to join any group. Was someone holding a gun to your head? Did you have trouble finding some mobs that said "HEY LOOK AT ME I'M SOLO CONTENT LET ME HOLD YOUR HAND". Damn, those evil monsters sure are inconsiderate when it comes to identifying themselves as potential targets.
- Many of the players attracted to Vanguard are the worst I know, in this sense I am thankful to Vanguard for taking the trash out of the other MMOs. *wave FoH/AL/LoS* Like players who respond in red? Yeah, thank god all those players are gone!
Vanguard is among the worst MMOs out there, the only reason I was interested is...because I am a freaking achiever and there is a lot to achieve in the game...but it is pointless when it all end in raiding, which is un-achievement embodied. Achieving to reach un-achievement? Nonsense. Now, the market is filled with players who aren't achievers, having so much achievements isn't wise IMO; and the few achievers who might enjoy it will usually not enjoy how it end for 1 moment. A raiding game huh? Ok, you keep telling yourself that. And if the truth finally comes around and smacks you in the face, I bet it's coloured red.
This reply was so funny I felt like it should be on here again
This reply was so funny I felt like it should be on here again Love it !!!
What I find funny, is that some "serious" devs cater to players with such a mindset. Well, thinking about it, it isn't funny, it is sad, extremely sad.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Vanguard travel time is LONG, unecessary LONG. CoV is fast and optional, you are done FAST. What is the point to sail on oceans when you can fly?
The travel is part of the immersion. You can really feel you are in a huge world. I'm very glad it is this way; I want to play in this world not just port to some grinding place over and over again. I have seen enough games that are fun in the beginning but get boring very fast.
As for the boats: the flying mounts cannot fly for long distances over the seas and they cannot carry as much stuff as the boats. So the boats will always be needed.
Then let's me put it bluntly...there are no compromises possible. I want to have FUN. Microsoft make better simulations programs than Sigil when it come to travel, and on top of that it raise my knowledge of the real world, which may turn to be usefull eventually.
Travels take away from the gameplay I crave for...and they are not what I enjoy playing myself. Realism, immersion, whatever, I walk every day about 2 or 3 hours, this keep me happy and give me all the travels I want. A game want to put me in traveling...LOL no thanks. Better luck with the next player! I am a grouper, not a traveler. This also explain a LOT of why the camps where popular in EQ, most players didn't enjoy traveling, otherwise they wouldn't have set up in camps.
Sailing make sense if you enjoy traveling...when you don't; it doesn't. Check all the negative comments coming about sailing soon, they will be there, cause peoples don't like traveling in a game, they want to group and make relevant travels, not long distance NYC-LA travels everyday!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Vanguard travel time is LONG, unecessary LONG. CoV is fast and optional, you are done FAST. What is the point to sail on oceans when you can fly?
The travel is part of the immersion. You can really feel you are in a huge world. I'm very glad it is this way; I want to play in this world not just port to some grinding place over and over again. I have seen enough games that are fun in the beginning but get boring very fast.
As for the boats: the flying mounts cannot fly for long distances over the seas and they cannot carry as much stuff as the boats. So the boats will always be needed.
Then let's me put it bluntly...there are no compromises possible. I want to have FUN. Microsoft make better simulations programs than Sigil when it come to travel, and on top of that it raise my knowledge of the real world, which may turn to be usefull eventually.
Travels take away from the gameplay I crave for...and they are not what I enjoy playing myself. Realism, immersion, whatever, I walk every day about 2 or 3 hours, this keep me happy and give me all the travels I want. A game want to put me in traveling...LOL no thanks. Better luck with the next player! I am a grouper, not a traveler. This also explain a LOT of why the camps where popular in EQ, most players didn't enjoy traveling, otherwise they wouldn't have set up in camps.
Sailing make sense if you enjoy traveling...when you don't; it doesn't. Check all the negative comments coming about sailing soon, they will be there, cause peoples don't like traveling in a game, they want to group and make relevant travels, not long distance NYC-LA travels everyday!
Heh... I just figured it out Anofalye.
Sigil made this game for us - NOT for you. Not, sure why I didn't see that before. Oh well, you got dibs on the next game!
Vanguard travel time is LONG, unecessary LONG. CoV is fast and optional, you are done FAST. What is the point to sail on oceans when you can fly?
The travel is part of the immersion. You can really feel you are in a huge world. I'm very glad it is this way; I want to play in this world not just port to some grinding place over and over again. I have seen enough games that are fun in the beginning but get boring very fast.
As for the boats: the flying mounts cannot fly for long distances over the seas and they cannot carry as much stuff as the boats. So the boats will always be needed.
Then let's me put it bluntly...there are no compromises possible. I want to have FUN. Microsoft make better simulations programs than Sigil when it come to travel, and on top of that it raise my knowledge of the real world, which may turn to be usefull eventually.
Travels take away from the gameplay I crave for...and they are not what I enjoy playing myself. Realism, immersion, whatever, I walk every day about 2 or 3 hours, this keep me happy and give me all the travels I want. A game want to put me in traveling...LOL no thanks. Better luck with the next player! I am a grouper, not a traveler. This also explain a LOT of why the camps where popular in EQ, most players didn't enjoy traveling, otherwise they wouldn't have set up in camps.
Sailing make sense if you enjoy traveling...when you don't; it doesn't. Check all the negative comments coming about sailing soon, they will be there, cause peoples don't like traveling in a game, they want to group and make relevant travels, not long distance NYC-LA travels everyday!
The thing is my old friend, Vanguard IS fun. You have to try it first before you can say it isn't. All you are basing your own opinion on is other peoples opinions and what is written about the game. That means you really don't have an opinion, you are going on hearsay. Tell you what, message me here via PM and ask me for a buddy key and I'll give you one so you can at least forumulate an opinion. Until then, you are just talking out of your...umm...other end.
Uhhhhh.......wow.......let me think nice and long before I write about how stupid that was.....
What can you achieve in COH/COV? There is nothing, and I played COV for like 6 months during release. The world is dead, you cannot enter buildings unless its for a quest which all consist of the same 3 objectives. The classes are just 5 different types of ONE archtype. Basically you can be a Tank, or DPS the only difference being the animations of the powers. There were NO items...NONE...even if you are a fackin GADGETEER!!! If you carried a sword, you had that same sword throughout the entire game. BOOOOORRRRRIIIINGGGGG!!!
Travel powers were fun, but when you first got them they sucked beyond anything ever.
The ONLY good thing about COH/COV is character creation, beyond that its worthless.
Oh yeah, and your point about COV having more subscriptions is the stupidest thing I've ever heard....you do realize vanguard released 2 weeks ago right? COH/COV has been out for nearly 5 years.
CoH/CoV been out for 5 years!?!Um http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/gameId/0 has CoH at 04/27/04 an CoV at 10/31/05 now my math skills are poor but that dont equal 5 years.Maybe your thinking of the 5 years devlopment of Vanguard ?Cause Anofalye said "City of Villians is ahead of Vanguard of at least 5 years,design-wise.Not time wise.
Rest what ya say about CoH/CoV is a intresting opinion .But opinions do not = fact.Their are Buildings you can go into thats not instanced.Only thing that i can see you said that is factual is if you carry a mace , or sword its same one threw out the game.But that is actualy comic book like .Thors hammer didnt change because of costums, black knights sword didnt change Captian America's sheild didn't change etc etc.
Anarchyart did state it was his opinion that Vanguard was the best mmorpg out atm. He just didnt say for him.Leaveing that out makes it sound well trashing everything else.Yeah the no loot thing in COh/CoV thing threw me for while to.Their is items sorta but its not the same as what Vanguard has or Eq1 by far.
Um comparing the sub numbers doesnt tell the whole story.Then again pining ones hopes for a game on future developement is the half empty glass ,an is not fun.Reading some these threads tho is.
Okay, well I was wrong about how many years the games been out. 3 years (COV) is still a lot longer than 2 weeks. The point I am trying to make is that you cannot judge something that has had 3 years of continued development AFTER their initial devolpment period against something just released.
As to the issue of buildings, there was only one real building you could enter back when I played, and it was the stupid town hall place that you started out in. Basically COH/COV is just a flat world where you run around in the city but cannot really interact with it. I mean, you can throw a fire ball at a building and it wouldn't even break a window, or scorch the stone.
I never said anything I wrote was FACT, but neither did you ever once mention that your statements were opinions...I mean saying that COV is 5 years ahead of Vanguard is a pretty big statement to make without the proper proof to back it up.
Good game with tons of potential, but until the flaws are eliminated it's really not worth playing. WoW, for all it's cartoony, easy game play, is still the best MMORPG for all gamer types. This game, and launch, remind me an awfuly lot of DDO. Same hype level, same premise, and same 'fanbois' proclaiming that their game is the best ever made. If you really take a good, honest, and hard look at the the game, there is no way that you can proclaim that V:SoH is complete and ready for the masses. I bought the game, and it will go on my shelf with the other disappoinments and overly hyped titles that have come out (DDO, RFO, etc...). My honest opinion is that if you want similiar game play, and the want your money's worth, play Guildwars. It's has the same graphics, but it's FREE to play. Again, V:SoH has the potential to be 'the' game of the year, just not right now.
I think the only thing I agree on with anofyle is travel. Running for 30 min to the same area is gonna get stale fast, and there are good chances that you will have to, at minimum go through areas you have been before several times. I know how big the world is, I don't need to be reminded with a 2 hour hike of pain just to get to the place I want to go. EQ and WoW had pretty massive worlds, and it didn't make them any less massive to have summons and teleports. It just made retreading less painful.
The rest of her posts seem to just be "waaah I hate raiding because FoH killed my puppy".
I played CoV for a year before switching to Vanguard.
There's no comparison between the two. They are very different types of games that appeal to different tastes of gaming.
What you cite as advantages to CoV are just as easily disadvantages in the eyes of others.
I wouldn't even classify COV as a true MMORPG. It's more of a persistant online action game that uses a level system for characters.
I think Vanguard is the best MMORPG to come out since the days of AC and EQ, and I've played just about everything in between.
Everything about Vanguard and it's vision is exactly what I've been waiting for in a MMORPG, and I sincerely hope they don't later try to dumb it down like SoE did with SWG and EQ2.
City of Villains is ahead of Vanguard of at least 5 years, design-wise. - raiding endgame, ROFL.
And what is COV's end game again? Rinse and Repeat I believe,
From Iceola lvl 50 Iceblaster/Devices. I also ran two Villians to 35 when that was the cap. No doubt Vanguard offers tons more in the way of playing options than COH/COV or WOW. I have tried them both. And IMHO EQ blows them away. Unless you want a flash/bam mob died on to the next mob type of game. You can't really compare a game like Vanguard to COH/COV they are for totally different crowds. Vanguard is geared toward people that want to put years into a toon, COH/COV is geared toward people that want to put months into a toon.
If Vanguard lives up to the promises and fixes the bugs it will be the game for me. I will give it time a fews months to settle. In the mean time I will continue to level my bard and work my crafting/harvesting/Diplomate skills and have fun do it .
Is Vanguard the best MMO ever, well not at the moment, but it has a serious upside that can't be ignored. Again this is MHO.
The travel in Vanguard is what I like best about it. It makes distance and exploration meaningful. It makes the world feel more real and connected when you can't hop around where-ever you want instantly.
It's a joy to ride through lands on a horse and interact with things along the way.
I love hitching rides on boats to distant places.
And I played AC1 for a year so I know exactly what it's like over the long haul to be in a huge seamless world with long travel times. It's those very travel times that give you a connection to the world around you and adds significance to the places you are visiting. Otherwise the game would feel like just a series of disconnected zones that you warp to and from.
Vanguard may have more potential than any other game out right now, but it is certainly not the best when judged overall. It is a buggy, it's a resource hog, it is also a long slow boring monotonous grindfest. I think there are a lot of games that are better than vanguard is right now, and I agree that COV is a good example. I'll point out the Anarchyart that after several months in the Vanguard beta, I quit at launch and I am playing COV.
It's not technically correct to say there is no loot in COV. Inspirations and enhancements serve the same purpose as armor / weapon / potion drops in other games. If the game used the same kind of loot as Vanguard, I would be running around in 7 mismatched colors. Vanguard's loot forces you decide between the look you want and the stats or bonuses you want. I prefer to have control over my character's appearance and still be combat affective at the same time. I am not endorsing one game's loot system over the other... it's apples and oranges. I just wanted to point out that COV does have loot.
On the subject of travel..... Sure you can eventually build or buy a ship, but have you seen how poorly they function? Am I the only one bothered by the fact that they all may as well be big rafts, having no interior areas below deck. I guess it's my own fault for expecting them to be something more like the yachts in SWG... I just didn't expect such a backwoods leap in the progression of player controlled ships. There are games 5 years old that do player boats and ships better than Vanguard. I'll agree that flying mounts are pretty cool in Vanguard but it's a long slow walk to get to them. Sure you can get a horse pretty early on, but it runs only a tiny bit faster than you do on foot, slower than some classes can run. I think that is one area where they have really got some adjusting to do. As it stands, land based mounts are little more than a cool looking waste of your hard earned cash.
There are tons of things wrong with the game, but I think for most people performance will be the deal-breaker. They have a long way to go before this game runs and looks reasonably well on most peoples machines. Right now you have to choose between a pretty slide-show and a decent frame rate with settings so low you have edit the ini file to get them there. If people can get past the initial resource shock, or they are willing to upgrade for it, Vanguard is pretty fun for a little while. You can run three or four characters up to the teen level XP drop-off before it really starts to feel like a grindfest. I think by the time they get the bugs worked out most of the earliest players will have already moved on due to a lack of content. And by then they will be competing with AOC and WAR.
I'm having fun in vanguard! More fun than I could be having in any other mmorpg atm, and that is pretty good for me.
(Do you guys ever sorta like glitches? I hate to admit it, but I think I might. Whenever I get a game that is glitch free, I always find myself trying to make it glitch. Its like... This game runs perfectly... Damn! Time to try and install a hundred mods! Vanguard has just the right amount of glitches for me!)
In terms of PvE, it's currently outclassed by FFXI. In terms of PvP, well, it's not even a contender. In terms of performance, it's excessively demanding.
I think if it was truly the best game out there, they'd have sold more copies, and the community wouldn't be nearly as divided. Looking at the board and browsing many of the posts, I think the only reason many people are playing Vanguard is because it's the only one out a lot of people haven't tried, or are looking for something to bide their time until something better comes along. Plus, I really don't think the best MMO available would have forums buzzing about how imperfect crafting is, the terrible ranges in performance for high-end computers, and the use of leveling exploits.
I don't think it's the best, I think it's just the latest release, and the newest flavor of the month. As soon as a new flavor comes along, people will move along.
My 2 cents.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
In terms of PvE, it's currently outclassed by FFXI. In terms of PvP, well, it's not even a contender. In terms of performance, it's excessively demanding.
I think if it was truly the best game out there, they'd have sold more copies, and the community wouldn't be nearly as divided. Looking at the board and browsing many of the posts, I think the only reason many people are playing Vanguard is because it's the only one out a lot of people haven't tried, or are looking for something to bide their time until something better comes along. Plus, I really don't think the best MMO available would have forums buzzing about how imperfect crafting is, the terrible ranges in performance for high-end computers, and the use of leveling exploits.
I don't think it's the best, I think it's just the latest release, and the newest flavor of the month. As soon as a new flavor comes along, people will move along.
My 2 cents.
Did you buy the game? Are you actually playing? If you wanted to "respectfully disagree" you would have stated specific issues, cited personal expieriences.... The several "exploiters" have been dealt with. High end computers are not needed. Crafting is fun and usefull., they are improving it with every patch. I am biased toward Vangaurd, and I was a total hater before playing it... my earlier post about the game reflect that. But I do love it now. I do play it several hours a day. I also am quite familiar with the bugs that remain. They are not game breakers. Vanguard is and will remain a great game for many years.
No, I've stated my opinions about what needs to be changed before. I don't have an active account, I tinker around on my roommate's a little bit now and then though.
This is just my personal opinion though. Just saying, I don't believe this is even a Top 5 contender...not yet anyway.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Comments
I was not trying to get you mad, merely making a point. One that you seem hell bent on avoiding at all costs. That Vanguard, despite you calling it on several occasions a "dog of a game", is now your current home. And the reason for that is? Drumroll please...you are bored sick, like me, of about every other MMORPG. Therefore, it is the best game available for you, for me, and for many others. You can go through semantics all you want and resort to calling me a fanboi who thinks less of others who don't agree with him, but the fact of the matter is you are playing it.
I don't think any less of people who disagree with me, unless they are just doing it for their own selfish reasons or in a callous or disrespectful manner. And no, my dear, these are not just games. They are places too. And if someone can post that Vanguard is buggy and dying, then I can post that it is the best game available, especially since that's what I think.
Now good day to you.
I said good day!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
As for the boats: the flying mounts cannot fly for long distances over the seas and they cannot carry as much stuff as the boats. So the boats will always be needed.
This reply was so funny I felt like it should be on here again
Love it !!!
www.90and9.net
www.prophecymma.com
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
As for the boats: the flying mounts cannot fly for long distances over the seas and they cannot carry as much stuff as the boats. So the boats will always be needed.
Then let's me put it bluntly...there are no compromises possible. I want to have FUN. Microsoft make better simulations programs than Sigil when it come to travel, and on top of that it raise my knowledge of the real world, which may turn to be usefull eventually.
Travels take away from the gameplay I crave for...and they are not what I enjoy playing myself. Realism, immersion, whatever, I walk every day about 2 or 3 hours, this keep me happy and give me all the travels I want. A game want to put me in traveling...LOL no thanks. Better luck with the next player! I am a grouper, not a traveler. This also explain a LOT of why the camps where popular in EQ, most players didn't enjoy traveling, otherwise they wouldn't have set up in camps.
Sailing make sense if you enjoy traveling...when you don't; it doesn't. Check all the negative comments coming about sailing soon, they will be there, cause peoples don't like traveling in a game, they want to group and make relevant travels, not long distance NYC-LA travels everyday!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
As for the boats: the flying mounts cannot fly for long distances over the seas and they cannot carry as much stuff as the boats. So the boats will always be needed.
Then let's me put it bluntly...there are no compromises possible. I want to have FUN. Microsoft make better simulations programs than Sigil when it come to travel, and on top of that it raise my knowledge of the real world, which may turn to be usefull eventually.
Travels take away from the gameplay I crave for...and they are not what I enjoy playing myself. Realism, immersion, whatever, I walk every day about 2 or 3 hours, this keep me happy and give me all the travels I want. A game want to put me in traveling...LOL no thanks. Better luck with the next player! I am a grouper, not a traveler. This also explain a LOT of why the camps where popular in EQ, most players didn't enjoy traveling, otherwise they wouldn't have set up in camps.
Sailing make sense if you enjoy traveling...when you don't; it doesn't. Check all the negative comments coming about sailing soon, they will be there, cause peoples don't like traveling in a game, they want to group and make relevant travels, not long distance NYC-LA travels everyday!
Heh... I just figured it out Anofalye.Sigil made this game for us - NOT for you. Not, sure why I didn't see that before. Oh well, you got dibs on the next game!
As for the boats: the flying mounts cannot fly for long distances over the seas and they cannot carry as much stuff as the boats. So the boats will always be needed.
Then let's me put it bluntly...there are no compromises possible. I want to have FUN. Microsoft make better simulations programs than Sigil when it come to travel, and on top of that it raise my knowledge of the real world, which may turn to be usefull eventually.
Travels take away from the gameplay I crave for...and they are not what I enjoy playing myself. Realism, immersion, whatever, I walk every day about 2 or 3 hours, this keep me happy and give me all the travels I want. A game want to put me in traveling...LOL no thanks. Better luck with the next player! I am a grouper, not a traveler. This also explain a LOT of why the camps where popular in EQ, most players didn't enjoy traveling, otherwise they wouldn't have set up in camps.
Sailing make sense if you enjoy traveling...when you don't; it doesn't. Check all the negative comments coming about sailing soon, they will be there, cause peoples don't like traveling in a game, they want to group and make relevant travels, not long distance NYC-LA travels everyday!
The thing is my old friend, Vanguard IS fun. You have to try it first before you can say it isn't. All you are basing your own opinion on is other peoples opinions and what is written about the game. That means you really don't have an opinion, you are going on hearsay. Tell you what, message me here via PM and ask me for a buddy key and I'll give you one so you can at least forumulate an opinion. Until then, you are just talking out of your...umm...other end.
CoH/CoV been out for 5 years!?!Um http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/gameId/0 has CoH at 04/27/04 an CoV at 10/31/05 now my math skills are poor but that dont equal 5 years.Maybe your thinking of the 5 years devlopment of Vanguard ?Cause Anofalye said "City of Villians is ahead of Vanguard of at least 5 years,design-wise.Not time wise.
Rest what ya say about CoH/CoV is a intresting opinion .But opinions do not = fact.Their are Buildings you can go into thats not instanced.Only thing that i can see you said that is factual is if you carry a mace , or sword its same one threw out the game.But that is actualy comic book like .Thors hammer didnt change because of costums, black knights sword didnt change Captian America's sheild didn't change etc etc.
Anarchyart did state it was his opinion that Vanguard was the best mmorpg out atm. He just didnt say for him.Leaveing that out makes it sound well trashing everything else.Yeah the no loot thing in COh/CoV thing threw me for while to.Their is items sorta but its not the same as what Vanguard has or Eq1 by far.
Um comparing the sub numbers doesnt tell the whole story.Then again pining ones hopes for a game on future developement is the half empty glass ,an is not fun.Reading some these threads tho is.
Okay, well I was wrong about how many years the games been out. 3 years (COV) is still a lot longer than 2 weeks. The point I am trying to make is that you cannot judge something that has had 3 years of continued development AFTER their initial devolpment period against something just released.
As to the issue of buildings, there was only one real building you could enter back when I played, and it was the stupid town hall place that you started out in. Basically COH/COV is just a flat world where you run around in the city but cannot really interact with it. I mean, you can throw a fire ball at a building and it wouldn't even break a window, or scorch the stone.
I never said anything I wrote was FACT, but neither did you ever once mention that your statements were opinions...I mean saying that COV is 5 years ahead of Vanguard is a pretty big statement to make without the proper proof to back it up.
I think the only thing I agree on with anofyle is travel. Running for 30 min to the same area is gonna get stale fast, and there are good chances that you will have to, at minimum go through areas you have been before several times. I know how big the world is, I don't need to be reminded with a 2 hour hike of pain just to get to the place I want to go. EQ and WoW had pretty massive worlds, and it didn't make them any less massive to have summons and teleports. It just made retreading less painful.
The rest of her posts seem to just be "waaah I hate raiding because FoH killed my puppy".
There's no comparison between the two. They are very different types of games that appeal to different tastes of gaming.
What you cite as advantages to CoV are just as easily disadvantages in the eyes of others.
I wouldn't even classify COV as a true MMORPG. It's more of a persistant online action game that uses a level system for characters.
I think Vanguard is the best MMORPG to come out since the days of AC and EQ, and I've played just about everything in between.
Everything about Vanguard and it's vision is exactly what I've been waiting for in a MMORPG, and I sincerely hope they don't later try to dumb it down like SoE did with SWG and EQ2.
And what is COV's end game again? Rinse and Repeat I believe,
From Iceola lvl 50 Iceblaster/Devices. I also ran two Villians to 35 when that was the cap. No doubt Vanguard offers tons more in the way of playing options than COH/COV or WOW. I have tried them both. And IMHO EQ blows them away. Unless you want a flash/bam mob died on to the next mob type of game. You can't really compare a game like Vanguard to COH/COV they are for totally different crowds. Vanguard is geared toward people that want to put years into a toon, COH/COV is geared toward people that want to put months into a toon.
If Vanguard lives up to the promises and fixes the bugs it will be the game for me. I will give it time a fews months to settle. In the mean time I will continue to level my bard and work my crafting/harvesting/Diplomate skills and have fun do it
.
Is Vanguard the best MMO ever, well not at the moment, but it has a serious upside that can't be ignored. Again this is MHO.
It's a joy to ride through lands on a horse and interact with things along the way.
I love hitching rides on boats to distant places.
And I played AC1 for a year so I know exactly what it's like over the long haul to be in a huge seamless world with long travel times. It's those very travel times that give you a connection to the world around you and adds significance to the places you are visiting. Otherwise the game would feel like just a series of disconnected zones that you warp to and from.
Vanguard may have more potential than any other game out right now, but it is certainly not the best when judged overall. It is a buggy, it's a resource hog, it is also a long slow boring monotonous grindfest. I think there are a lot of games that are better than vanguard is right now, and I agree that COV is a good example. I'll point out the Anarchyart that after several months in the Vanguard beta, I quit at launch and I am playing COV.
It's not technically correct to say there is no loot in COV. Inspirations and enhancements serve the same purpose as armor / weapon / potion drops in other games. If the game used the same kind of loot as Vanguard, I would be running around in 7 mismatched colors. Vanguard's loot forces you decide between the look you want and the stats or bonuses you want. I prefer to have control over my character's appearance and still be combat affective at the same time. I am not endorsing one game's loot system over the other... it's apples and oranges. I just wanted to point out that COV does have loot.
On the subject of travel..... Sure you can eventually build or buy a ship, but have you seen how poorly they function? Am I the only one bothered by the fact that they all may as well be big rafts, having no interior areas below deck. I guess it's my own fault for expecting them to be something more like the yachts in SWG... I just didn't expect such a backwoods leap in the progression of player controlled ships. There are games 5 years old that do player boats and ships better than Vanguard. I'll agree that flying mounts are pretty cool in Vanguard but it's a long slow walk to get to them. Sure you can get a horse pretty early on, but it runs only a tiny bit faster than you do on foot, slower than some classes can run. I think that is one area where they have really got some adjusting to do. As it stands, land based mounts are little more than a cool looking waste of your hard earned cash.
There are tons of things wrong with the game, but I think for most people performance will be the deal-breaker. They have a long way to go before this game runs and looks reasonably well on most peoples machines. Right now you have to choose between a pretty slide-show and a decent frame rate with settings so low you have edit the ini file to get them there. If people can get past the initial resource shock, or they are willing to upgrade for it, Vanguard is pretty fun for a little while. You can run three or four characters up to the teen level XP drop-off before it really starts to feel like a grindfest. I think by the time they get the bugs worked out most of the earliest players will have already moved on due to a lack of content. And by then they will be competing with AOC and WAR.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
/ignores all the posts in this thread
I'm having fun in vanguard! More fun than I could be having in any other mmorpg atm, and that is pretty good for me.
(Do you guys ever sorta like glitches? I hate to admit it, but I think I might. Whenever I get a game that is glitch free, I always find myself trying to make it glitch. Its like... This game runs perfectly... Damn! Time to try and install a hundred mods!
Vanguard has just the right amount of glitches for me!)
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
In terms of PvE, it's currently outclassed by FFXI. In terms of PvP, well, it's not even a contender. In terms of performance, it's excessively demanding.
I think if it was truly the best game out there, they'd have sold more copies, and the community wouldn't be nearly as divided. Looking at the board and browsing many of the posts, I think the only reason many people are playing Vanguard is because it's the only one out a lot of people haven't tried, or are looking for something to bide their time until something better comes along. Plus, I really don't think the best MMO available would have forums buzzing about how imperfect crafting is, the terrible ranges in performance for high-end computers, and the use of leveling exploits.
I don't think it's the best, I think it's just the latest release, and the newest flavor of the month. As soon as a new flavor comes along, people will move along.
My 2 cents.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
This is just my personal opinion though. Just saying, I don't believe this is even a Top 5 contender...not yet anyway.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...