Is it really that hard?

Hydro101

Is it so hard to come out with a great pvp game? i mean seriously? why do all the developers insist on implementing lazy ass class's where you pick a class and thats all you are, no hybrids, with the simple paper rock scissors system that any 5th grader with an imagination could design.

Another thing, really, give is a game with pvp reprocussins for dieing, ya ya ya, big whoop, you get corpse loot a lil bit of gold. why not items? i bet that would stop some of these games from being about gear grinding.

SCREW THE CAREBEARS that what there little non stop instance raiding 24/7 and constant roleplaying, they have so many of these retarded games out its unreal. is it really that hard to give us an actual pvp game? everyones been asking for 1 ever since the gaming population discovered what WoW really is, a grind to 60, a grind for gear once 60, roll a new class, rinse and repeat.  So what do these developers come out with? VANGUARD, a giant bug infested paper rock scissors class structure game, pick an rtard class and stick with it till you get bored and pick another.  about the only thing they even did right was allow gold looting and free for all servers.

im looking forward to AoC and Darkfall, both supposedly have hybrids, FFA pvp servers, and some form of corpse looting.

/rant off

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Phynn

this is my opinion so please no flames towards my feelings on PvP. Let me start by saying that in almost every game I have been a part of thePvE community heavily outweighs the PvP community. Also PvP, in my opinion almost always ends up being the grp or guild that has the biggest advantage, whether being gear or levels, picking on the not so well equipped pesons or guilds. Another thing if a game were made that allowed its pvp community to free loot anyhting on a dead coprse there would be so  much less geared bashing that noone could start the game for fear of bieng pummeled by soemone who has been there and is geared out. I know the repsonse is going to be that if you cant handle the heat get out of the kitchen, well to that I say ok thats why I choose not to play PvP heavy games. And if WoW, EQII or Vanguard dont have the PvP system you like then why play them, or moreso, why bash them...Just donr play them and wait or finda game that gives you the PvP you want. Perosnally i love what Vanguard is doing and I know that this game will one day be one of the big boys...legitimate PvP system or not.

nomadian

Vanguard is a PvE game.
For pvp there is EvE Online, Lineage1/2, Shadowbane?

Havoc-PK

I have the feeling that more and more players are getting tired of the road-to-nowhere treadmill that is PvE based MMOs. We'll start to see more competitive titles released soon such as Age of Conan and Darkfall.

Wizardry

I know your not going to like this but....IN all reality PVP games are where the carebears as you like to put it hang out.In these games players hide behind there higher level and there larger guilds.That in effect is a total no brainer and a pretty whimpy way to play.At least in PVE you have to fight mobs that are STRONGER than yourself to gain usefull loot and XP.There is no way in he.ll you can tell me that MR>BIG bad brave carebear boy logs onto his meek little level 10 player and starts taunting the level 40 player.That would be a truly PVP game where you can show some CAHOONAS,not the way you 12 hour a day players are doing it,by ganking and bullying.PFFT that type of gameplay belongs to the true carebears who havnt the skill to grasp a complete PVE system.Try FFXI at level 40 and tell me how easy it is to get XP soloing a level 40 mob.Then try your carebear PVP game with your level 40 bullying around a level 35,and dare to compare wich is more the carebear game.In FFXI you will die to the level 40 mob where as you most likely will beat the level 35 player,and if your unsure,then you won't even attack,this is the true face of PVP'rs.

Oh yeah! ..looting corpses?  RFLMAO how brave is that?It sure takes a brave carebear to loot a corpse.Man you people make me laugh,you see it one way and one way only.I just showed you a couple very simple scenarios,that shows how PVP is a total joke.The things that actually make PVP hard is not what the players are par taking in,they are looking for the upper edge,such as better gear,better skills,items that boost there hit points or magic damage,then when they feel they have the upper hand ,that's when mr.brave moves in...pffft.Keep your PVP game,that's why the majority choose otherwise.

PVP is for WHIMPS...at least until i see a completely fair system that brings in WITS and not time vs reward or better gear/items wins.

osc8r

Originally posted by Wizardry


I know your not going to like this but....IN all reality PVP games are where the carebears as you like to put it hang out.In these games players hide behind there higher level and there larger guilds.That in effect is a total no brainer and a pretty whimpy way to play.At least in PVE you have to fight mobs that are STRONGER than yourself to gain usefull loot and XP.There is no way in he.ll you can tell me that MR>BIG bad brave carebear boy logs onto his meek little level 10 player and starts taunting the level 40 player.That would be a truly PVP game where you can show some CAHOONAS,not the way you 12 hour a day players are doing it,by ganking and bullying.PFFT that type of gameplay belongs to the true carebears who havnt the skill to grasp a complete PVE system.Try FFXI at level 40 and tell me how easy it is to get XP soloing a level 40 mob.Then try your carebear PVP game with your level 40 bullying around a level 35,and dare to compare wich is more the carebear game.In FFXI you will die to the level 40 mob where as you most likely will beat the level 35 player,and if your unsure,then you won't even attack,this is the true face of PVP'rs.
Oh yeah! ..looting corpses?  RFLMAO how brave is that?It sure takes a brave carebear to loot a corpse.Man you people make me laugh,you see it one way and one way only.I just showed you a couple very simple scenarios,that shows how PVP is a total joke.The things that actually make PVP hard is not what the players are par taking in,they are looking for the upper edge,such as better gear,better skills,items that boost there hit points or magic damage,then when they feel they have the upper hand ,that's when mr.brave moves in...pffft.Keep your PVP game,that's why the majority choose otherwise.
PVP is for WHIMPS...at least until i see a completely fair system that brings in WITS and not time vs reward or better gear/items wins.

Yes, cause we all know people in PVE games always fight the toughest monsters so they can be 'hardcore'. I remember I was level 1 and attacked a level 60 monster, woaahhh, i was so brave, I even died!



And we all know that people in PVE games don't care about gear, skills, item etc...



Excellent post!



Man, has this forum gone down hill or what.

vajuras

I agree with a lot the OP says. I am glad the hardcore PvEers have MMOs to play but it would be nice to see pvp focused MMOs. The only problem I have with FFA is that I dont think its fair I get ganked while I only have like 10/100 life points left by some invisible rogue. Well thats how sucky pvp in WoW is anyway. would be a nightmare if I get ganked like this and all my loot stolen.

However, if pvp/pve areas are separate I think that'll satisfy everyone pretty nicely. I love pvp, but the way its implemented in MMOs makes it really blow. getting ganked by someone 10 levels above you sucks. I look forward to a game like darkfall whereas its skill based and I will always have a fair fight, etc. full looting in the context of what those Devs propose sounds good.

Yeah AoC sounds really good too. As long as pvpers come to the border kingdoms it'll be fun. I'm still not sure how populated pvp will be in a game like Conan tho- since it still a level based grind.

so yeah, I much prefer a skil based pvp MMO come out.

mbblade

well the way i see it you PVE first for a long time and then you get into the PVP. You need lvls and equipment before you do any PVPing really. If you want a game like COH and such that don't have any equipment at all and have that a PVP then it would be differant.

Ohaan

Originally posted by Wizardry


I know your not going to like this but....IN all reality PVP games are where the carebears as you like to put it hang out.In these games players hide behind there higher level and there larger guilds.That in effect is a total no brainer and a pretty whimpy way to play.At least in PVE you have to fight mobs that are STRONGER than yourself to gain usefull loot and XP.There is no way in he.ll you can tell me that MR>BIG bad brave carebear boy logs onto his meek little level 10 player and starts taunting the level 40 player.That would be a truly PVP game where you can show some CAHOONAS,not the way you 12 hour a day players are doing it,by ganking and bullying.PFFT that type of gameplay belongs to the true carebears who havnt the skill to grasp a complete PVE system.Try FFXI at level 40 and tell me how easy it is to get XP soloing a level 40 mob.Then try your carebear PVP game with your level 40 bullying around a level 35,and dare to compare wich is more the carebear game.In FFXI you will die to the level 40 mob where as you most likely will beat the level 35 player,and if your unsure,then you won't even attack,this is the true face of PVP'rs.
Oh yeah! ..looting corpses?  RFLMAO how brave is that?It sure takes a brave carebear to loot a corpse.Man you people make me laugh,you see it one way and one way only.I just showed you a couple very simple scenarios,that shows how PVP is a total joke.The things that actually make PVP hard is not what the players are par taking in,they are looking for the upper edge,such as better gear,better skills,items that boost there hit points or magic damage,then when they feel they have the upper hand ,that's when mr.brave moves in...pffft.Keep your PVP game,that's why the majority choose otherwise.
PVP is for WHIMPS...at least until i see a completely fair system that brings in WITS and not time vs reward or better gear/items wins.

Wiz you could have just said /agree



but this was much funnier.

Moghidin

I have a 1-st hand experience with hardcore PvP game, which is Eve. I also heard about experience of other ppl on some different games with PvP servers. The bottom line is: PvP in games, where there's a big risk of losing expensive staff is not at all about fair fight. It's about winning, winning by all means possible. You rarely find a fight, where the opponent will fight you and there is a possibility for him to lose. Either he tries to run, or he's fighting because he has some friends nearby. Another issue is that PvP games lead to the creation of groups of extremely dedicated players, which quite naturally prefer to play in one guild, than in guilds with more casual/ less successful players. It causes the creation of 1 Uber Guild, that is slowly starting to dominate the server or the game, making it hard for everyone else to succeed there on the one hand, and on the other hand, their extremely dedicated play style means that everyone else should follow their steps in order to try to be successful, which in turn drives off many causal players who don't have time or the desire to invest that amount of effort into the game.

jimmyman99

Originally posted by Hydro101


Is it so hard to come out with a great pvp game? i mean seriously? why do all the developers insist on implementing lazy ass class's where you pick a class and thats all you are, no hybrids, with the simple paper rock scissors system that any 5th grader with an imagination could design.
Another thing, really, give is a game with pvp reprocussins for dieing, ya ya ya, big whoop, you get corpse loot a lil bit of gold. why not items? i bet that would stop some of these games from being about gear grinding.
SCREW THE CAREBEARS that what there little non stop instance raiding 24/7 and constant roleplaying, they have so many of these retarded games out its unreal. is it really that hard to give us an actual pvp game? everyones been asking for 1 ever since the gaming population discovered what WoW really is, a grind to 60, a grind for gear once 60, roll a new class, rinse and repeat.  So what do these developers come out with? VANGUARD, a giant bug infested paper rock scissors class structure game, pick an rtard class and stick with it till you get bored and pick another.  about the only thing they even did right was allow gold looting and free for all servers.
im looking forward to AoC and Darkfall, both supposedly have hybrids, FFA pvp servers, and some form of corpse looting.
/rant off
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This is EXACTLY why hardcore PvP is not too much popular, becuase of people like you who like to "screw carebears". Think logicaly, which one is easier, to fight in fair 1 on 1 fight with equal levels/items, OR to gank someone 10+ levels below? The latter one, obviously. Ok, in a smart PvP system there could be a restriction on who can fight who, one step closer to non-hardcore PvP.



Next one, assuming u cant gank someone much lower level then you are, which is easier, to fight a fair 1on1 fight or to get 10 of your buddies and gank someone? The second one of course. You get reward with minimal risk. This system will result in much frustration since the person u ganked may have worked realy hard to get that item. Which kind makes the "work hard for item" part of effort meaningless. Would you enjoy working a 12 hour shift in McDonalds just to be paid for regular 6 hour one without any reward for your extra effort?



The only realy good hardcore PvP system that will work AND be popular among players IMO is the one that does NOT require items, that doesnt make levels that important or doesnt take much effort to gain those levels. Something like that Planetside. In PS, levels dont mean u have no chance fighting max level. Nor do you have "special" items u have to grind 10 hours into obtaining. You can get ganked though, but you wont have a feeling "Oh I just ganked and the previous 10hours I played were lost because of that".



There still has to be a reward associated with a win in hardcore PvP system. But I think it needs to be shifted from personal win to global win (guild/race/faction). If you and your buddies kill enemy group, you shouldnt be able to loot their items but you should gain control over outpost that gives you additional strengths of sort. This will ensure continous fight and will not discourage players from PvPing.



In a nutshell, DONT take a way from a loser, GIVING something to a winner will be encouragement enough for continious PvPing.