Are we spoiling it for ourselves?

ammie

I have just been visiting a few sites of games in development and one thing I noticed is how reluctant they have become to share some of the info and ideas they want to implement into the game.  Is that our fault for making devs extremely nervous of making "promises" they can't keep?



Games take a long time to make, are expensive and so I suppose have to evolve in step with the current market, even if it means having to be flexible and change original ideas. Should we really expect devs to stick to ideas made years ago and in doing so maybe not create enough revenue to support their game? Or should we maybe help support the game we have chosen and be more flexible ourselves within the atmosphere of the game? It now seems the norm'  to complain about everything, often even before we have experienced it .     

 



I don't really know the answer but would hate to lose the intimacy  and sharing we once had with a developing game.  Often even their own forums are becoming a battleground of flame wars, if we are not careful we could end up being shut out until the product is actually on the shelf. After all they know there are a lot of "addictive" customers out there.

Dowie

In my opinion, a mmo should always stick to their original ideas. Devs need to realise that you won't get any new customers from changing their game to a game that already exists, they will just lose their veterans that way. Just look at DAOC and SWG, DAOC tried to bring in more PvE to the game that made the RvR really suffer big time due to that you have to spend endless hours raiding to get master levels and artifacts. While SWG just dumbed down their game trying to reach a bigger audience but only to fail miserable and upsetting the most of the veteran population.



This is a big problem on the mmo market according to me, if im really in to a mmo and have spent many and many hours playing it i don't want it to suddenly make it into a diffent kind of game. Rather the devs spend their time on expanding whats already there.

ammie

Dowie I totally agree with you, once a game has gone live it should keep to its original concept. I was more referring to whilst the game is in development, and why developers are reluctant in some cases to share ideas with us.

Dowie

Whops sorry



Just came home from work, kinda lazy on the reading

Xpheyel

To some extent yes but it is probably better that they keep any pie-in-the-sky secondary features to themselves until those features are done being internally tested. For two reasons.

First of all, it at least forces some circumspection on the part of the developers' or publisher's hypemachine. Which is a good thing. There is enough irrational exuberance when screenshots come out. Plus, if left to their own devices, they'd likely market their game as the best thing since someone figured out you could make games for computers. Because that is what marketing is basically for.

Secondly, yes the players. It seems like anything that is said by a developer at any point is stripped of all qualifications and interpreted some number of years later as a blood-oath.

Veiled_light

They shouldn't make promises they can't keep then :S They should just talk about whats in their game :

 

Example: PM and his lack luster ego titles.

sempiternal

Originally posted by Dowie

In my opinion, a mmo should always stick to their original ideas. Devs need to realise that you won't get any new customers from changing their game to a game that already exists, they will just lose their veterans that way. Just look at DAOC and SWG, DAOC tried to bring in more PvE to the game that made the RvR really suffer big time due to that you have to spend endless hours raiding to get master levels and artifacts. While SWG just dumbed down their game trying to reach a bigger audience but only to fail miserable and upsetting the most of the veteran population.



This is a big problem on the mmo market according to me, if im really in to a mmo and have spent many and many hours playing it i don't want it to suddenly make it into a diffent kind of game. Rather the devs spend their time on expanding whats already there.

I completely agree!  Take a look at most any large MMO, not just SWG and DAoC, and you will see these types of major failures - game changing updates ruining the momentum of a game's growth.  It's like pulling the rug out from under your customer's feet.

Aethios

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Originally posted by ammie
I have just been visiting a few sites of games in development and one thing I noticed is how reluctant they have become to share some of the info and ideas they want to implement into the game.  Is that our fault for making devs extremely nervous of making "promises" they can't keep?

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How is this "spoiling it" for us? The developers should NOT be announcing features that are not yet in the game for any reason. If we allow them to do this, we end up with half-baked games where a good part of the "features" are not yet in the game, and in some cases will never be developed.

Even worse, if we allow them to tell us whatever crazy idea pops into their heads without any proof, you end up with games like Dark and Light.

Arath

Originally posted by Veiled_light


They shouldn't make promises they can't keep then :S They should just talk about whats in their game :

The thing is over the course of 1 even 2 years of development, the developers may suddenly realize that something they wanted to implement into the game simply wont work, due to time limtations, financial limtations, other game mechanics, etc, etc. Things like the BETA may change how the developers originally envisioned the game would be approached and played by players. The company may not plan its resources careful enough and run out of finance, etc, etc.

However the mayority of gamers does not realize the complexities behind the development process and will cling to any promises or statements made during the development process, unleashing horrific back-lash should said features not make the final game. Some players will NEVER drop some statements and hold it against developers, so Im really not surprised that as the community (market) grows the number of details developers are willing to reveal on their games may certainly be reduced or scaled back (perhaps for better or for worse).

That being said there will always comes descriptions and such to hype a game, because very few will manage to sell without building some hype. About games sticking to their core concepts, they should, HOWEVER that doesnt mean the game shouldnt be expanded (and I mean in more ways than simply quests and land-mass). The balance to be achieved however is in expanding on the games design without breaking the core gameplay mechanics, which is something very difficult to achieve. Developers should stay focused, but not feel restrained by whatever innitial elements they started off with. The problem is with doing things half-heartedly.

Drafell

The major reason is actually to prevent other games and companies from stealing and implementing them. Given the long development cycles of MMO's this does play an important role.

It's not about promises so much, although there certainly are legal angles that have to be considered and it does play a factor in what you can and can't say, but more importantly it is about keeping that edge over the competition.

Classicstar

becouse we have now a good 10years of mmo on internet more and more demand alot more out of mmo,s becouse we paying for it.

But now we know what majority wants a avarage game like wow tailor made for casual players thats not bad, majority is casual but alot of devolelopers try copy it and try get a piece of cake to alot of them try rush it on market and many fail then.

 Blizzard did it with great succes to launch a game that apply to many players.

Now i hope some game developer like aventurine(darkfall) will bring something complete different in this case for the pvp player base who want far more chellenge then wow.

I think with what i now know about company and the game they make, it  will be a succes(i hope:P).

I know many dont like games like darkfall but ones who dream of such a game will get finnaly a game they can play hardcore im absolutly convinced there is a market for games like darkfall its one of few who realy make a differents between all those clones from eq and wow.

My 2 cents

i8theworm

Originally posted by ammie

I have just been visiting a few sites of games in development and one thing I noticed is how reluctant they have become to share some of the info and ideas they want to implement into the game.  Is that our fault for making devs extremely nervous of making "promises" they can't keep?

That's an age old problem with programmers.  The problem I've had in the past is folks who don't get that development is a process, and think it's an event instead, want hard dates with hard enhancements.



There are always intangibles.  Sometimes they're easily overcome, sometimes not.  Release dates slip, features slip, scope creeps... it's just how it works.



As a lead developer on a medical practice management software package, I refuse to make any promises except to my director, and those are few and far between.  They sound something like "I promise I will add that issue to the list, and will give  you a best guess as to how long that feature will take to implement."



Game development is no different in that aspect.  Feature lists get reworked, scope creeps, decisions change, etc...

MuffinStump

There is also the ongoing notion that game developers are somehow mad geniuses or a mystic cabal that operate in a completely different realm than the rest of the world. Just as in any field/career there is a rare amount of visionaries while most are simply....adequate. Add in real world burdens of financing and deadlines and the visionary with unrestricted corporate backing becomes exceedingly rare.

Expecting revolutionary ideas from any business with something to lose is hopeful at best.

People give them way too much credit and expect very little in return these days.

"I would rather they concentrate on this bug rather than cloaks...It would take them forever to create new models for various size characters...Solo and Group play? Too difficult...Scripted Quests take too much time to write..." blah blah as if most people realize what can or cannot be done with proper skill.

The reason you don't see too much from upcoming games is because there is nothing to see until they get their graphics engines up to postable snuff. Another retread on an old tire and people take it as new.

It is the same notion that 'everything has been done'.
Everything has not been done simply because you cannot think of something new. I expect a masterwork. There aren't many Leonardo DaVinci's in the world but I am looking for one that designs games

Classicstar

Originally posted by MuffinStump


There is also the ongoing notion that game developers are somehow mad geniuses or a mystic cabal that operate in a completely different realm than the rest of the world. Just as in any field/career there is a rare amount of visionaries while most are simply....adequate. Add in real world burdens of financing and deadlines and the visionary with unrestricted corporate backing becomes exceedingly rare.
Expecting revolutionary ideas from any business with something to lose is hopeful at best.
People give them way too much credit and expect very little in return these days.
"I would rather they concentrate on this bug rather than cloaks...It would take them forever to create new models for various size characters...Solo and Group play? Too difficult...Scripted Quests take too much time to write..." blah blah as if most people realize what can or cannot be done with proper skill.
The reason you don't see too much from upcoming games is because there is nothing to see until they get their graphics engines up to postable snuff. Another retread on an old tire and people take it as new.
It is the same notion that 'everything has been done'.

Everything has not been done simply because you cannot think of something new. I expect a masterwork. There aren't many Leonardo DaVinci's in the world but I am looking for one that designs games

Aventurine(darkfall)are the leonardo da vincis of today making a game:)

MuffinStump

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Originally posted by forest-nl
Originally posted by MuffinStump There is also the ongoing notion that game developers are somehow mad geniuses or a mystic cabal that operate in a completely different realm than the rest of the world. Just as in any field/career there is a rare amount of visionaries while most are simply....adequate. Add in real world burdens of financing and deadlines and the visionary with unrestricted corporate backing becomes exceedingly rare.
Expecting revolutionary ideas from any business with something to lose is hopeful at best.
People give them way too much credit and expect very little in return these days.
"I would rather they concentrate on this bug rather than cloaks...It would take them forever to create new models for various size characters...Solo and Group play? Too difficult...Scripted Quests take too much time to write..." blah blah as if most people realize what can or cannot be done with proper skill.
The reason you don't see too much from upcoming games is because there is nothing to see until they get their graphics engines up to postable snuff. Another retread on an old tire and people take it as new.
It is the same notion that 'everything has been done'.
Everything has not been done simply because you cannot think of something new. I expect a masterwork. There aren't many Leonardo DaVinci's in the world but I am looking for one that designs games

Aventurine(darkfall)are the leonardo da vincis of today making a game:)

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Hehe. Your posts are beginning to amuse me. Does every one of your posts have a reference to Darkfall?

Ok admit it....This is all just an act.