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Disciple Balance
nynniva
Member UncommonPosts: 235
From the Official Site :
Disciple BalanceDisciples were given some balance updates with the last patch to get them more in line with where they should be. Prior to yesterdays patch, disciples could sometimes score critical hits upwards of 60% of the time. Obviously, that was not intended and it has been brought to a more appropriate percentage. We apologize that this did not make it into the patch notes.
I don't think I ever crit 60% of the time. But, ok sure whatever. Nerf the crits, thats fine. Can you please explain why our heals were reduced, our HoT( that requires being in melee combat to execute) has had its endurance cost raised to HALF OUR ENDURANCE BAR and heals for 24 HP a tick when a cleric's alleviate of the same level heals for 100 HP a tick and can be cast at any time for a minimal energy cost? This is balanced?
Can you also explain why a three move combo (that really requires 5-6 moves executed, to build up Jin) has had its heal amount nerfed as well? It takes at least 7-8 seconds to execute this attack with the Jin build up, and now about 12-15 seconds to execute it with the increased endurance cost of ALL OUR SKILLS ..and now it heals for peanuts. Was this necessary? Any other healer class can heal for more, faster.
Any other healer class can do equivalent damage to a disc. The only advantage disc had was that its damage wasn't as mana dependent, meaning you had to rest less. But with the critical hits removed their damage has been nerfed to FAR LOWER than the other healing classes. Wasn't this enough?
I notice that in your 'announcement' you say you're sorry you didn't tell us about the crit damage adjustment. But you didn't tell us about the endurance increase either, or why you thought we needed to heal for 20% of what any other healer of the same level can heal for? Are these things being set to reasonable levels, or are disciples just going to remain useless? Despite the post on Silky Venom yesterday saying that the END increase was 'unintentional' there has been no official word of a fix, meanwhile our characters are unplayable.
Gaming? That's not gaming!
That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...
Comments
Though I wish they would spend less time with balance right now and more time with polishing the game...
Well the issue is that while they may refine it at a later date, essentially all the progress I have made for now is wasted - I have to start over, until they decide to fix it. Depending on how long until they fix it, I'll probably have another character up to the same level. Then what. All my friends are already too high to group with me due to the travel restrictions combined with the race/class restrictions and now that I have to reroll to be able to play the game this is only going to get worse. Just a little frustrated here - I have to solo to catch up because there aren't enough people in each area to form a group most of the time, and now classes that can solo are being nerfbatted.
If they can take the server down during prime time to BREAK us, you'd think they could fix us, assuming they intend to, whenever they wanted, right?
Gaming? That's not gaming!
That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...
The patch notes didn't include information about this nerf, anyway. It was sneaky.
Blessed Wind had its heal amount reduced by HALF.
Blessed Wind II - 46 endurance cost - heals 137 hp over 18 seconds. (24 hp a tick)
Compare to Cleric's Alleviate (same lvl cleric) = heals 500+ over 18 seconds (90ish/tick)
90% of all disc skills had their endurance cost DOUBLED.
Critical hit rate with fast weapons was reduced by HALF.
(If you don't play a disc, know that our best attack is a crit-triggered reactionary attack that also gives a 5 min increase to how much you get healed for, one of the only "buffs" we get - that we now can't put up reliably because we hardly crit at all after this change. Not to mention this reduces our DPS by about 75%).
We previously had a 3-attack chain that proc'd a heal for a few hundred points upon successful execution. Blessed Wind --> Cyclone Kick ---> Void Hand. (In that order.)
To execute Cyclone Kick, you need 3 jin, so you need to use 2 jin-giving attacks before you start this chain unless you have Jin stored up from a previous fight . This is also assuming you haven't used jin for your bonds, for healing, or for anything else. In other words, this skill required a bit of setup and the execution was far from simply 'hitting a button'.
With thew new END increases, you can't really do this on a full bar of end, rather you have to wait for it to tick up. And now with crits being so rare, if you happen to crit in the process, you really need to take advantage of it thus interrupting the chain. The best part? This skill now heals for practically nothing making the entire thing pointless.
So Disc can still heal, but we have to do it like every other healer - using energy to cast a spell. That's fine. Except unlike other healers, we don't get the buffs, the HoTs, the nukes, the debuffs, or the number of other things that healers get. Instead, we get crappy melee damage - and my cleric can out-melee my disc any day with or without using skills, and has a ton of other toys to boot.
Supposedly, the END increase was unintentional ( or a quick backpedalling of the devs). However that still doesn't address the fact that our heals healed for less TO BEGIN WITH, and were made ot heal for even less, and our chain attack was hardly overpowered due to the time it took to execute, and now that has been made pointless as well. The critical hit adjustment is fair. It hurts our DPS by 75%, but it doesn't affect our survivability nearly as much (only in the lack of falling petal's heal bonus). This was enough. The rest was not necessary. Obviously anyone who thinks disc was dreadfully overpowered never played them, and I'm willing to bet never played another healer class since ANY CLASS THAT CAN HEAL THEMSELVES IN ANY MMO IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO SOLO BIGGER THINGS. They have more (total) health. Just like any class that can root/snare/kite is going to be able to kill a bigger thing than a class that can't. When the health bar drops to zero, its game over - any class with a way to avoid damage (cc-ing, rooting, etc) or repair damage (healing) is going to have more staying power. If you want to have this ability, then play one of those classes, don't whine and cry about how you saw ____ class solo something that you couldn't and they need to be nerfed, because then the devs listen to the whiners and begin slowly ruining the game.
Gaming? That's not gaming!
That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...
Well considering that until they revert the F UP they made of the last patch as far as Disciple class goes I will be canceling my account. Getting to lvl 20 only to realize that I am now able to neither fight nor heal is a crappy way to balance things.
To sum it up for those who care:
Before patch
My Disciple was able to solo a lvl 19 monster, I was hitting for around 100-170 per hit with crits around 200-400. Heals were working and I would come out of the fight with around 60-70% of my health. Fight duration around 1 minutes
After patch
My Discile is hitting the same mob at lvl 19 for 26-70 per hit, no crits, no end left after 1-2 specials, heals hit for exactly half and 4 minutes later I emerge victorious with 30% HP left.
Same 2-dot lvl 19 tree critter. Same skill level on my char. Now in a group situation the heal issue is huge - being the least effective, lowest heal lvl healer among the rest puts a serious damper on anyone wanting a Disc - we dont have any useful buffs we cant fight without being healed now and we cant heal worth a crap.
All of the FOTM Rangers try to imagine having your dmg cut by 75% and you will get the idea.
FUNCOM - putting the FUN in disFUNctional !
No class should be soloing 4 dot NPCs of equal or higher level like I used to. ESPECIALLY a healing class.
That's why our crits and heals were nerfed. My 18 disciple still gets the job done, even if I have to THINK a little bit more in battle, God forbid.
It was also already stated that they will continue to balance the class since the nerf may have been too harsh.
Either way, adapt and get over it.
qft
and yeah, i would say 60% crit rate was about right, unless you were one of the poor disc's that didn't realize you shouldn't use any weapons(more of those than you would think, hey why would you disarm yourself if you didn't know better)
FUNCOM - putting the FUN in disFUNctional !
Cryptic does the same thing with CoH/V. They nerf the hell out of a power, players complain, then they raise it back up a little (still below original effectiveness), and finally everyone sings praises to the devs for listening. It's a vicious cycle, and I'll bet the same happens here.
Cryptic does the same thing with CoH/V. They nerf the hell out of a power, players complain, then they raise it back up a little (still below original effectiveness), and finally everyone sings praises to the devs for listening. It's a vicious cycle, and I'll bet the same happens here.
It truely is. It's been happening for the last decade. I don't understand why it's such a big deal now.
Granted, it's a MAJOR hurt when you pay to play a game that should in all honesty still be in beta like Vanguard, but things like this happen sooner or later. Just because the devs didn't catch something right away doesn't mean that they won't catch it 2 years down the road when everyone is sitting comfy on their throne of easy mode.
Clerics and Rangers in Vanguard have been getting continuously nerfed since the great cataclysm that almost tore Telon asunder. I'm guessing you never witnessed the Ranger's ability to "safely" kill every single mob in an entire dungeon because of one overpowered ability.
to be. Wether it was intended or shows during the evolving game.
And you have every right to quit your subscription.
The problem is not with the class or the Devs but with your expectations.
60% critical ? Sure you liked the class...
As others have said, Devs overnerfing a class, ability, or whatever is nothing new.
But for everyone screaming about it, would you rather they get it done now, when you're only a week or two into the class at most, or 5 months from now, after you've invested countless hours to your class, and so on?
Me, I'll take my lumps up front, thanks. Not that it really means much difference, the class at the bottom of the ladder invariably ends up at the top sooner or later, until it starts getting nerfed back down the ladder, and the next newly overpowered FOTM class gets it's moment in the sun.
FUNCOM - putting the FUN in disFUNctional !