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My Opinion, Nice World, Horrible Game Play.
Gweyr
Member Posts: 93
Beta Experience – I have gotten Minstrels and Captains into the high 40s in various phases of Beta. I did not bother with Monster VS Player. I did do crafting as a Scholar while my friend did all the other crafts.
Let me get what I like about this game out up front to balance my criticisms later. Turbine as done several things well with Lord of the Ring Online.
- The look and feel of the world. They paid a lot of attention to getting their version of Middle Earth right. I can see The Shire, Rivendell, Weathertop, Old Forest, Lone Land, Last Bridge, etc in what they have done. Some people will feel the game world is too small but I think this is more an issue of just how huge Middle Earth is. If the release new zones quickly, they could be OK with the size of the world.
- Quest and Story Arcs. This isn’t DDO, they have a good amount of content available at release. You can’t repeat quests and you should never be without quests to do while leveling so not grinding monsters for experience. It’s the WoW quest system where you get experience for completing quests and defeating those monsters that were in your way. Quests have level like WoW. Quest are broken up to Solo / Small Group, Group / Small Group if it green, Story Arcs. If you have a regular group to Story Arcs, I think they are the best content in the game. Trouble is they are steps in the Story Arcs like Master Levels in DAoC so they are not pick up group friendly as group member may be on different steps.
- Lore. I think they this may be Turbine’s best effort on Lore. AC1 could be viewed as better because the Lore there is unique but Turbine did a very good job sticking to the source materials.
So I summery, I really like the world Turbine has created but what about the game mechanics? There the rub. I think the game mechanics are horribly flawed.
- Character Advancement.
- Stats.
i. You do not get to pick your stats during creating beyond what race you are and to be honest, race really makes little difference.
ii. You do not get stats points to spend as level up. You can get traits that may have a small stat improvement and some equipment can improve stats.
iii. Stats don’t really seem to have much effect. The testers seem to be getting around 1% effect per 100 of a stat and max is between 240-300 so a Max Stat could get like 3% effect. My classes had stat buffs and most times I would forget to recast them after they expired and I never noticed any difference.
- Skills
i. Even level you get active class skills, Odd levels you get passive skills like improve block, dodge, etc. Everyone in your class has the same skill based on what level you are.
ii. This mean one level 30 Minstrel is pretty much like every other level 30 Minstrel.
- Traits; there are 4 types of Traits
i. General Virtues (chose 8) that you get by kill monsters and doing quests in a zone. If you get the same virtue again, they stack improving the overall effect but a small amount. The big issue is monsters & quests from one zone do not count toward virtues from another zone so if you have outleveled a zone you could need to spend a lot of time grind stuff that is grey to you to complete Virtues. Another problem is if a Virtue is maxed out, it has very little effect on game play. There never been a Virtue that I felt I must get and max out.
ii. Class Traits (chose 5) that you get doing activities for that class like healing for Minstrels. The problem is most of them have little effect so everyone will end up with the few good class traits.
iii. Racial Traits (chose 5) that you get by killing one of 3 sets of monsters that are racial enemies. Again, too few really good racial traits so everyone will pretty much end up with the same traits.
iv. Legendary Traits (chose 2 of 3) These are suppose to change how you play your character but I never saw that much of a different. For example, for minstrels, one was a combat rez (already had a non combat rez), aoe attack at the end of a 4 attack chain ( already had one aoe like that) and a 60 second reduction of area dread which I think is good but very situational so I expect all Minstrels will get the combat rez and dread reduction.
- To me, this system mean that all characters of a class are pretty much and I can’t see how Turbine could not improve the system much without a complete overall which will not had before release. To be honest, I doubt many people would be interested in a SWG revamp so this system is pretty much what your going to get.
- Combat. I find combat in this game to be very boring due to the monsters
- Lack of monster Varity. You’ll be killing Boars, Bears, Goblins, etc at level 1 and you’ll be killing them at level 50. Ok, let me try to list them, Boars, Bears, Goblins & Orcs, Wolves & Wargs, Men & Dwarves, Cats, Birds, Drakes, Wraiths, Trees, Bog Critters, Spiders, Trolls, Bugs, Cows, Yetis, Rats (thankfully no fire breathing rats), Turtles, Frogs. I sure I am missing a few but trust me, way to much repetition on what you are fighting.
- Monsters lack special abilities. They have them but they seem so weak and they use them so poorly, you never have “Kill IT, Kill IT Quickly” feeling like I have gotten in other games (Tsoo Sorcerers in CoX, Kobold Shamans in DDO, Hollow Scarecrows in AC1, etc) . It pretty much does not matter what I am fighting, it’s the same tactics. If no Elites, attack whatever, heal if needed. If group has an Elite, kill Nonelites first then Elite, heal as needed. If Multiple Elites and small party with no CC, run away, J otherwise kill trash first using CC on extra Elites and heal if needed. Large Party with no CC against Multiple Elites, focus on one Elite, heal as needed and heal self if you get agro.
- Monsters are just plain DUMB. Seems like 90% of the time its run into melee range, stand still while attacking. Can’t remember seeing one monster heal or buff another. Some will attack at range some of the time. Weird because in their sister game, DDO, they move about, cast spells, use special abilities, etc. You think they be using the same AI in both games.
- Classes
- They were hamstrung but the need to follow Middle Earth lore so I find the classes lackluster.
- Because the system to me seems to be so limited, classes should not need to be rebalanced after release. People who played AC2 will see this as a plus but since they bore me, I would almost welcome AC2 style class revamping.
- Crafting to me seems pretty boring and useless.
- The system itself is boring, basic make X to get Y skill points, after so much skill get new level, repeat. It does have a mastery option to put some chance into system but can only use mastery options after you mastered a craft level and you need rare drops so will not be using it often.
- Quest reward items are usually better then Crafted Items. Some monster dropped items are better then anything that can be crafted. Pretty much means little reward for crafting.
- You get crafting materials from nodes like in AC2 or WoW and usually you’ll outlevel what you can make before you can make it. Pretty much turns crafting into equipping alts.
- Bugs – They got a good handle on the bugs and I expect that by release it will be one of the more bug free games.
- Other – these are things that AC2 or DDO had that seem to be weird not to be in this game.
- Movement
i. No under water movement
ii. No climbing
- Traps
i. No traps
- Dungeons
i. Only large Dungeon with multiple quests I know of is the Great Barrows
ii. Several small caves, building, etc that are used for a single quest.
So I love the world but hate the game play. Why the world is nice, I play games for the play so I’ll be passing on Lord of the Ring Online.
Comments
Spot on review. Amazing accomplishment with Turbine's current iteration of Worldbuilder. They have pretty much mastered thier dev tools. Also, client perfomance is great on my mid-range system. The gameplay falls flat on it's face, however, for all the reasons listed by the OP. Ends up being just another MMO rehash--this time in (a very pretty) Middle Earth.
Drev
"If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let their be light" they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it."
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"In the end, SWG may have been more potential and promise than fulfilled expectation. But I'd rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
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Great Review.
I can't say I wasn't dissapointed reading it, though. I really hope the world, quests and community will be more than enough fun for everyone and maybe they'll be able to excuse the shortcomings of combat.
The one thing you have to remember about the creatures and mobs is that so far, a very small part of Middle Earth is available... we haven't seen what's ahead in Mordor and I'm sure there will be many different and interesting mobs and encounters to come.
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JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA
Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO
Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I agree one hundred and fifty percent with the author of this post. This is the sad but true thing for me. I have read the series including the hobbit, silmarillion etc. about 50 times i would imagine not exaggerating. The story is so wonderful, allows me to imagine. I really hoped they would try something different than other mmos with this game, but they went the same direction 80% of mmos go. To be frank, I love the books, the movies are fun but inaccurate at times, the game pisses me off so bad that I am ashamed to associate it with tolkiens work. Way to take a chance and put yourself on a ledge turbine, way to go. I give turbine mad props for recreating WOW in the LOTR universe, good marketing strategy they will make there money... but not from me. Huxley and Age of Conan are taking MMO's in different directions. Kaos War is going a different way as those two but at least these writers have the balls to take a chance. Nough said, I'm ashamed
Arkael
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I am of the old school that believes in harsh death penalties and permanent item degredation etc etc so LotRo is very much a dissapointment to me.
That said I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy it because it is such a fun and pleasant game to play.
It will be my MMORPG of relaxation.
A game to just chill out with and enjoy the scenery going by.
A good game of Chess is a thrill to win but can be hard work.
Sometimes Snakes and Ladders can be more fun
it did remind me a bit when i tried out wow in beta when it came to mobs, how dumb they were at first, then after a few patches, ranged mobs and caster mobs will take distance when yuo were rooted to kite you. warrior type mobs now execute you if your low on health and so on.
Since the game is in beta there is still alot of room for improvement. Heck when Wow came out UBrs was endgame it had little to offer to people with alot of time in their hands.
anyhow keep the reviews like this one. see how thing change from here to next month and write another ill be expecting it.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
Why?
Game is overall very good and extremely well polished and it can only become better with patches/updates with new areas and expansions.
This reminds me of EQ II and that game shines bright now after their latest expansion.
If turbine manage to do the same in a year or two ,well then i will still have free acces to the game and have saved a lot of money.
If they fail to improve it,ohh well then i loose 99£ which is a night at town so no biggie.
Though i fail to see how this game wont improve in time.
This game is a dream come through for the casual gamers,Questfreaks and roleplayers.
There is other games on the way for WoW hardcore raidfans.
This is not for those,
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If you want to be in an interactive version of the book, then LotRO sounds great. As a solid MMORPG, it sounds lacking.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
ARe there people who think WoW is too difficult or time consuming? Good lord, if so then those people should consider another for of entertainment.
AI seems to have taken a big dive with this last patch - hopefully it will be fixed.
Yes ( as someone said before ) it can sometimes feel like an Online Interactive Map of Middle Earth, but it runs smooth ( fairly average PC here ) looks sweet, and has bucket fulls of promise for the future.
I'd say this is WoW 1.1, both in their attention to atmosphere and mechanics. That's not really a bad thing if you like WoW, or any other standard fantasy MMORPG for that matter. It's just not anything new in terms of gameplay.
Try to remember that most of the MMORPG market isn't burned out on the same old like we are.
I think it's more than a theory. I think it's a paradigm.
I have not found one game that someone can't bash on liberally.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Currently: Playing EVE Online
Previous: FFXI, Dragonrealms, sad little stint in WOWland.
Awaiting: Fallen Earth, Hero''s Journey, Tabula Rasa, Age of Conan.
Arkael
Arkael
I think it's more than a theory. I think it's a paradigm.
I have not found one game that someone can't bash on liberally.
I absolutely agree. The difference is I believe i have the right to bash it. J.R.R. Tolkien's LOTR was great why? He wrote about something different and now his characters and there races now define modern fantasy movies, books, and games. The fact of the matter is when you 'remake' something that was the best of the best, there is high standards in every aspect of what you're doing. It's like getting an essay paper graded in college. You get graded on thesis, grammar, spelling, relevance to the topic, and the impact your writing has on the reader. Not just one or two things, ALL of them. I'm not claiming to be an expert in english or grading games, i've just played them all. So when I think LOTR i think, its what made fantasy what it is today. So when i think MMORPG LOTR i think here comes the game that will define MMOS for the next 70 years just like the books did (gameplay wise not technological obviously). Maybe my standards were too high. I guess i hoped for much and got too little. I was very satisfied with the quests, storyline, the world itself. It was so lacking in every other stage of the game that it completely ruins those things for me. It's like getting served the best filet mignon with an amazing chardonette and then getting a large log of poop for desert, what do you remember? The amazing first course and wine, or the sh*t at the end. All in all opinion is everything, and I encourage every person that reads reviews of games, movies, and books to not make a judgement based on what they read. I would encourage everyone to try this game. The recreated world of tolkien's LOTR will let your imagination go. The next time I bash something I'll include my justification with it. And with that I will bring this to an end.
Arkael
I must agree with the TS here, i'm a great fan of the books/movies, and expected ALOT from the game (maybe to much). Possibly due to the fact the books made what fantasy is today. I started playing with alot of expectations and at first and they seemed to be met, until i met "Gandalf" after that it was/is like any MMO sure the world is looking nicely, but then there's everything the TS mentioned. He put it in a way i couldn't.
The game will endup with every class being the same, only difference will be gear but eventually everyone will get "the best" and the game will lose what made it so diverse in the books.
For the ones that played RO (Ragnarok Online) know how diverse characters can be (atleast in the early stages of the game)
Well i don't know how to put it, but to me it's WoW in a beautiful world.
I also miss the rich instanced dungeons of DDO with lots of traps and secret rooms and climbing and swimming.
It seems like Turbine went out of its way to stop ppl comparing it too DDO and thus failed to use some of the great innovations that DDO had. The combination of DDO combat and tactics and the awesome game world and contents of LOTR would have made the perfect game.