Warhammer my only hope for a decent MMO release this year

gillvane1 · February 2007

You just don't know if a game is good or not till you play it (or lots of people play it and tell you if it's good or not). All the features listed on a website don't mean anything, except whether or not you can exclude that game because it's missing key features you want. For example, you like crafting, and the game doesn't have any crafting at all. The only thing that matters is how those features are implemented, not whether or not they are on the back of the box. There may be crafting, but it may suck.

It's not required that you have first hand experience to know if a game is decent or not. I didn't have to play Horizons (and I didn't) to know that it sucked. I didn't have to play DAoC to know that I'd probably like it (and I did).

That being said, I played some of the Vanguard beta. I thought I'd like it, but it just doesn't grab me. The biggest missing element is PvP. Yes they have a PvP server, but like someone mentioned on another thread, the only PvP feature of the game is that you can do it.

Chronicles of Spellborn looks like vaporware to me. Supposedly they are releasing in May, but the website doesn't even list any concrete features. Everything, and I mean everything, is still a maybe. Will there be a death penalty? Maybe. What kind of vision is that? Doesn't sound very hopeful.

Age of Conan I won't count out yet. There's still some small hope that it might be fun. However, I get this sinking feeling that it's headed down a console friendly sort of clickety click on the gamepad plugged into your PC (and later your Xbox) feel that just won't be to my liking. It's possible that might turn out to be completely wrong, but that's the feeling I get from everything I've read so far. I"m sure open beta will answer this one way or the other, and that's not far off, so I look forward to all your reviews once the NDA is dropped on that one.

I tried Warcraft when it first released. I couldn't get into the cartoony graphics. Also the grouping feature in the 1-60 game was sadly lacking IMO, and the community wasn't all that enjoyable, probably due to the fact that it wasn't a very good grouping game from 1-60. That means no Burning Crusade for me, because it's just more of the same.

I also tried Guild Wars. Kinda fun, but I just couldn't quite get into the lack of a world. Oh, and DDO? To repetitive doing the same dungeons over and over, and again, not enough world.

So, that just leaves Warhammer. I like the graphics, at least the screens I've seen so far. Yes, it's a bit cartoony, but with a different style than WoW. For whatever reason, I don't mind the Warhammer graphic style, while I dislike the WoW graphic style. It's a simple matter of preference, and one appeals to me, the other doesn't.

Warhammer will have PvP, and plenty of it. The game is designed for PvP from the start, so that feature is definitely in. Will it be a decent grouping game? Probably not, but perhaps the PvP grouping will make up for the lack of PvE grouping if that isn't a strongpoint of the game.

Again, you never know till you play it, and the WAR release is still a long way off, but unless AoC really surprises me, that's the only game that has a chance this year of getting me to pay a monthly subscription fee.

MMORPG Maker www.mmorpgmaker.com

Gonodil · February 2007

AoC fanbois INC!!

Get ready for "AoC has better graphics", "Something, Something Combat System", "Massive Sieges WITH better graphics and NO LAG"

And other fanboi dreams.

gillvane1 · February 2007

Originally posted by Gonodil

AoC fanbois INC!!
Get ready for "AoC has better graphics", "Something, Something Combat System", "Massive Sieges WITH better graphics and NO LAG"
And other fanboi dreams.

My post is purely subjective, and there is not attempt to be objective whatsoever, as far as whether a game is good, bad, or ugly. It's just my opinion of what I personally would find fun in an MMORPG.

I am reserving judgement of Age of Conan. If the beta reviews come in after the NDA is dropped, and the majority opinion is that the game rocks, even if you don't play with a gamepad, I'll definitely give AoC a try.

shae · February 2007

Whilst I agree with you that WAR looks very solid and I'm looking forward to it's release, I will dissagree with you on the point of TCoS.

Although I will say this, keep thinking it's vaporware, keep putting it down when you have a chance, I think you should do it when you can. The more people that are proved wrong when the game releases, the more shock value will come along with that and you just can't buy that kind of advertising.

I would add though that almost any feature you'd be interested in knowing about is all in the forums over at tcos.com. It quite literally take all of about 2 minutes to find.

gillvane1 · February 2007

Originally posted by shae

Whilst I agree with you that WAR looks very solid and I'm looking forward to it's release, I will dissagree with you on the point of TCoS.
Although I will say this, keep thinking it's vaporware, keep putting it down when you have a chance, I think you should do it when you can. The more people that are proved wrong when the game releases, the more shock value will come along with that and you just can't buy that kind of advertising.
I would add though that almost any feature you'd be interested in knowing about is all in the forums over at tcos.com. It quite literally take all of about 2 minutes to find.

I'm not particularly interested in putting down TCoS. I usually look at a games website and it's list of features in it's FAQ to see what's in the game. Then, if I'm interested in a feature and want to discuss it, I can take a look at the forums. If they have figured out what sort of death penalty they are going to use, or what sort of PvP system they will implement, I would suggest they put it in the FAQ, rather than the forums, which is the usual practice.

Channce · February 2007

I to am a long time DAoC subscriber. Have you looked at PoTBS? one im watching, at least until WAR is released.

Gonodil · February 2007

Originally posted by shae

Whilst I agree with you that WAR looks very solid and I'm looking forward to it's release, I will dissagree with you on the point of TCoS.
Although I will say this, keep thinking it's vaporware, keep putting it down when you have a chance, I think you should do it when you can. The more people that are proved wrong when the game releases, the more shock value will come along with that and you just can't buy that kind of advertising.
I would add though that almost any feature you'd be interested in knowing about is all in the forums over at tcos.com. It quite literally take all of about 2 minutes to find.

Sounds almost like an exact quote of the vanguard fanbois during late beta.

shae · February 2007

Originally posted by gillvane1

Originally posted by shae

Whilst I agree with you that WAR looks very solid and I'm looking forward to it's release, I will dissagree with you on the point of TCoS.
Although I will say this, keep thinking it's vaporware, keep putting it down when you have a chance, I think you should do it when you can. The more people that are proved wrong when the game releases, the more shock value will come along with that and you just can't buy that kind of advertising.
I would add though that almost any feature you'd be interested in knowing about is all in the forums over at tcos.com. It quite literally take all of about 2 minutes to find.

I'm not particularly interested in putting down TCoS. I usually look at a games website and it's list of features in it's FAQ to see what's in the game. Then, if I'm interested in a feature and want to discuss it, I can take a look at the forums. If they have figured out what sort of death penalty they are going to use, or what sort of PvP system they will implement, I would suggest they put it in the FAQ, rather than the forums, which is the usual practice.

I'd agree with you about putting things in the FAQ if the game wasn't in Beta.

The problem lies when you put someting in a FAQ, in then becomes, well... fact.

The team at TCoS actually listens to it's player base and putting any sort of major feature in stone on the website wtihout having properly tested it out is just not their style. Hence the whole being in Beta thing.

It's put on the forums so that people know it's being talked about, it's open for discussion. This way, we all get a good idea at that they're looking at but it's also open to change and improvement. Now I don't know about you but that's exactly what I want in a game I'm going to support.

shae · February 2007

Originally posted by Gonodil

Originally posted by shae

Whilst I agree with you that WAR looks very solid and I'm looking forward to it's release, I will dissagree with you on the point of TCoS.
Although I will say this, keep thinking it's vaporware, keep putting it down when you have a chance, I think you should do it when you can. The more people that are proved wrong when the game releases, the more shock value will come along with that and you just can't buy that kind of advertising.
I would add though that almost any feature you'd be interested in knowing about is all in the forums over at tcos.com. It quite literally take all of about 2 minutes to find.

Sounds almost like an exact quote of the vanguard fanbois during late beta.

I'd respond if I could shave 100 IQ points and bring myself to your level.

voodookhan · February 2007

Originally posted by gillvane1

I'm not particularly interested in putting down TCoS. I usually look at a games website and it's list of features in it's FAQ to see what's in the game. Then, if I'm interested in a feature and want to discuss it, I can take a look at the forums. If they have figured out what sort of death penalty they are going to use, or what sort of PvP system they will implement, I would suggest they put it in the FAQ, rather than the forums, which is the usual practice.

I agree that TCOS really needs to update their website (particularly their FAQ). All the interesting tidbits I've either found in the forums (which is actually a pretty good source of info) and on other websites citing interviews or videos. Their newsletter to me is also so-so, I still find more interesting bits in the forums. I also agree, that a lot of companies don't put enough effort into their websites in the early stages. Sometimes even afterwards the site gets stale. But anyway I digress...

Tabula Rasa? That's another one coming out. Thoughts? Not sure if this will be anything special, but I crave a decent Sci-Fi game to replace SWG.

gillvane1 · February 2007

Originally posted by Channce

I to am a long time DAoC subscriber. Have you looked at PoTBS? one im watching, at least until WAR is released.

I just don't have much interest in playing a Pirate. Unless they had Ninja to attack, but I'm pretty sure they don't.

For Chronicles of Spellborn, that is sort of my complaint. If they are releasing May (which the website says they are), they ought to know by now what some of the features will be. Or, if they have any vision. Good MMORPGs are not made by consensus, IMO. That's different from setting in stone certain class abilities, like how much damage a mage does compared to a melee class or something. OF COURSE those sorts of things change during development, and all during beta. But you pretty much need to know what sort of PVP system you're developing early on, to get it right before release. IMHO. And that ought to be in the FAQ, not the forums.

For example, you might be deciding on the severity of a death penalty, like should you lose all your items, or just one? Should you lose 10% of xp or 1%? But you should know if you're going to have players lose an item on death or not, or if you'll lose xp or not, early on in the design phase. Otherwise, your design looks sort of vaporous.

I didn't get to play Star Wars Galaxies before the NGE. I don't have much interest in it now, post NGE, although I've heard it's a decent MMORPG. While the pre-NGE had some flawed features, like training every skill to become Jedi, a lot of the features sounded like they worked really well, such as the crafting system.

Channce · February 2007

you dont have to play a pirate. They are going to have "4 realms" England, France, Spain and Pirates.

shae · February 2007

Originally posted by gillvane1

Originally posted by Channce

I to am a long time DAoC subscriber. Have you looked at PoTBS? one im watching, at least until WAR is released.

For Chronicles of Spellborn, that is sort of my complaint. If they are releasing May (which the website says they are), they ought to know by now what some of the features will be. Or, if they have any vision. Good MMORPGs are not made by consensus, IMO. That's different from setting in stone certain class abilities, like how much damage a mage does compared to a melee class or something. OF COURSE those sorts of things change during development, and all during beta. But you pretty much need to know what sort of PVP system you're developing early on, to get it right before release. IMHO. And that ought to be in the FAQ, not the forums.

For example, you might be deciding on the severity of a death penalty, like should you lose all your items, or just one? Should you lose 10% of xp or 1%? But you should know if you're going to have players lose an item on death or not, or if you'll lose xp or not, early on in the design phase. Otherwise, your design looks sort of vaporous.

I didn't get to play Star Wars Galaxies before the NGE. I don't have much interest in it now, post NGE, although I've heard it's a decent MMORPG. While the pre-NGE had some flawed features, like training every skill to become Jedi, a lot of the features sounded like they worked really well, such as the crafting system.

That's fair, and I can certainly see your point of view. I think at this point it's your point of view more then it is a fact but of coures your entitled to that.

It's all symantical of course, I think it's perfectly fine and you don't, neither of us is right, it's just a matter of favoritism.

shae · February 2007

Originally posted by Gonodil

Originally posted by shae

Originally posted by Gonodil

Originally posted by shae

Whilst I agree with you that WAR looks very solid and I'm looking forward to it's release, I will dissagree with you on the point of TCoS.
Although I will say this, keep thinking it's vaporware, keep putting it down when you have a chance, I think you should do it when you can. The more people that are proved wrong when the game releases, the more shock value will come along with that and you just can't buy that kind of advertising.
I would add though that almost any feature you'd be interested in knowing about is all in the forums over at tcos.com. It quite literally take all of about 2 minutes to find.

Sounds almost like an exact quote of the vanguard fanbois during late beta.

I'd respond if I could shave 100 IQ points and bring myself to your level.

Awww, the fanboi angry? So sad!

And your game sucks. No amount of your blind praise will change that.

LOL, thanks for making my point for me.

alyndale · February 2007

Th OP mentioned some things about certain MMO's and why they lacked for him. Fair enough. I am thinking due to the way we're looking forward to Warhammer, the OP is a former first-person shooter gone PVPer. Not a problem at all. The thing that ..sighs...yawn...I get so tired of reading and is very, very unoriginal is the negative review of one video game history's most popular games ever. Come on please! Were you NOT in a guild? LOL, you couldn't find a freakin' group between 1 - 60? Did you even level to 20, for cryin' out loud? Yeesh! And if you were in a guild, what in the world would you even consider being in a guild that doesn't work in groups? What server were you on where of all the folks that play on that server you couldn't find a single person to party with? Obiviously, I have a feeling I'll hear something like, "Oh yeah, I got plenty of parties, they were just all very dull and boring...or some such weak statement. But, friend if you're gunna disrepect histories' most popular MMO, well please choose something a little more original to whine about than grouping. Any group is only as interesting as it's members. Ventrilo sure helps that! Humor comes in handy too..wit...manners, and of course the sense of adventure and purpose.

Gonodil · February 2007

Originally posted by shae

Originally posted by Gonodil

Originally posted by shae

Originally posted by Gonodil

Originally posted by shae

Whilst I agree with you that WAR looks very solid and I'm looking forward to it's release, I will dissagree with you on the point of TCoS.
Although I will say this, keep thinking it's vaporware, keep putting it down when you have a chance, I think you should do it when you can. The more people that are proved wrong when the game releases, the more shock value will come along with that and you just can't buy that kind of advertising.
I would add though that almost any feature you'd be interested in knowing about is all in the forums over at tcos.com. It quite literally take all of about 2 minutes to find.

Sounds almost like an exact quote of the vanguard fanbois during late beta.

I'd respond if I could shave 100 IQ points and bring myself to your level.

Awww, the fanboi angry? So sad!

And your game sucks. No amount of your blind praise will change that.

LOL, thanks for making my point for me.

Except you have yet to make ANY point.

All I've seen is "MY GAME RULEZ!!! YOU NOT LIKING IT MAKES IT RULEZ MOREZ!!!"

shae · February 2007

Originally posted by Gonodil

Originally posted by shae

Originally posted by Gonodil

Originally posted by shae

Originally posted by Gonodil

Originally posted by shae

Whilst I agree with you that WAR looks very solid and I'm looking forward to it's release, I will dissagree with you on the point of TCoS.
Although I will say this, keep thinking it's vaporware, keep putting it down when you have a chance, I think you should do it when you can. The more people that are proved wrong when the game releases, the more shock value will come along with that and you just can't buy that kind of advertising.
I would add though that almost any feature you'd be interested in knowing about is all in the forums over at tcos.com. It quite literally take all of about 2 minutes to find.

Sounds almost like an exact quote of the vanguard fanbois during late beta.

I'd respond if I could shave 100 IQ points and bring myself to your level.

Awww, the fanboi angry? So sad!

And your game sucks. No amount of your blind praise will change that.

LOL, thanks for making my point for me.

Except you have yet to make ANY point.

All I've seen is "MY GAME RULEZ!!! YOU NOT LIKING IT MAKES IT RULEZ MOREZ!!!"

I did make a point...your a child. Furthermore, your a child that cannot respond in any other way besides agresively and angrily, which you've proved again. Notice how the OP and I have had a mature conversation, we dissagree with each other and you know what, that's ok. Doesn't mean we're going to resort to calling each other names, we make out arguments and move on.

Anyone above the age of 12 has figured that out already, you apparently have not caught on so again, I thank you for now re-inforcing my point.

gillvane1 · February 2007

Originally posted by alyndale

Th OP mentioned some things about certain MMO's and why they lacked for him. Fair enough. I am thinking due to the way we're looking forward to Warhammer, the OP is a former first-person shooter gone PVPer. Not a problem at all. The thing that ..sighs...yawn...I get so tired of reading and is very, very unoriginal is the negative review of one video game history's most popular games ever. Come on please! Were you NOT in a guild? LOL, you couldn't find a freakin' group between 1 - 60? Did you even level to 20, for cryin' out loud? Yeesh! And if you were in a guild, what in the world would you even consider being in a guild that doesn't work in groups? What server were you on where of all the folks that play on that server you couldn't find a single person to party with? Obiviously, I have a feeling I'll hear something like, "Oh yeah, I got plenty of parties, they were just all very dull and boring...or some such weak statement. But, friend if you're gunna disrepect histories' most popular MMO, well please choose something a little more original to whine about than grouping. Any group is only as interesting as it's members. Ventrilo sure helps that! Humor comes in handy too..wit...manners, and of course the sense of adventure and purpose.

I will admit that I like the occaisonal FPS game. I still play Call of Duty 2 now and then, and Battlefield 2142. However, I played EQ before playing many FPS games, and was really into the RTS genre. I can't wait for Supreme Commander to release.

I'm not saying Warcarft isn't a good game. Obviously millions of players like it. I am saying, that for me, the group aspect was totally lacking. I don't mean whether or not you could find a group, but whether or not a group was necessary in the 1-60 game (it wasn't) and whether or not the group dynamics were such that it was extremely important to know your class and play it well within a group, or your party would be wiped. It just wasn't. That makes it not really my sort of game in terms of grouping, but if you liked it I certainly have no problem with that.

I find a lot of things about Vanguard lacking, but it has some great group dynamics. If you want to see what I'm talking about, play Vanguard in a group. It's a lot different than WoW.

Salvatoris · February 2007

I agree with the OP that most of the games coming out have one huge question mark or another associated with them. I thought Vanguard was going to be the next game for me, until I played it and realized the production quality was absolutely dreadful. I have had my eye on AOC, and still have high hopes for it.... but those hoppers could easily be dashed by finding out that the console version and PC version will be even close to the same. I can't imagine a good MMO that could be played solely on a gamepad. I like some console games, but you can never have the depth of options and gameplay that I want from an MMO with 6 or 8 buttons. Then there are 20 other games coming out that were made on almost no budget by companies you have never heard of. They might be good, but like I said... big question mark.

I do think the OP forgot to mention the possible problem with WAR... that being the EA factor. I also played DAoC, and had a lot of faith in mythic to bring us another good game.. I don't have the same faith in EA. Maybe the game will still; be decent, but just like every other game in production, we will have to wait and see.

Gonodil · February 2007

Originally posted by shae

Originally posted by Gonodil

Originally posted by shae

Originally posted by Gonodil

Originally posted by shae

Originally posted by Gonodil

Originally posted by shae

Whilst I agree with you that WAR looks very solid and I'm looking forward to it's release, I will dissagree with you on the point of TCoS.
Although I will say this, keep thinking it's vaporware, keep putting it down when you have a chance, I think you should do it when you can. The more people that are proved wrong when the game releases, the more shock value will come along with that and you just can't buy that kind of advertising.
I would add though that almost any feature you'd be interested in knowing about is all in the forums over at tcos.com. It quite literally take all of about 2 minutes to find.

Sounds almost like an exact quote of the vanguard fanbois during late beta.

I'd respond if I could shave 100 IQ points and bring myself to your level.

Awww, the fanboi angry? So sad!

And your game sucks. No amount of your blind praise will change that.

LOL, thanks for making my point for me.

Except you have yet to make ANY point.

All I've seen is "MY GAME RULEZ!!! YOU NOT LIKING IT MAKES IT RULEZ MOREZ!!!"

I did make a point...your a child. Furthermore, your a child that cannot respond in any other way besides agresively and angrily, which you've proved again. Notice how the OP and I have had a mature conversation, we dissagree with each other and you know what, that's ok. Doesn't mean we're going to resort to calling each other names, we make out arguments and move on.

Anyone above the age of 12 has figured that out already, you apparently have not caught on so again, I thank you for now re-inforcing my point.

First, its 'YOU'RE'. Please learn to use proper grammar before you call anyone a child.

Second, i just said you sound like every vanguard fanboi at the end of beta, and then you started with some childish name calling because I guess I was right and that pissed you off.

Anyhow, have fun living in your delusional fantasy world, where YOU'RE right, and everyone that disagrees with you is a child.

And yes, the game still sucks, and you are still blind to that fact.

I await your self proclaimed "mature" post where you call me some more names and declare yourself the winner of some imaginary contest.

gillvane1 · February 2007

Originally posted by Gonodil

Originally posted by shae

Originally posted by Gonodil

Originally posted by shae

Originally posted by Gonodil

Originally posted by shae

Originally posted by Gonodil

Originally posted by shae

Whilst I agree with you that WAR looks very solid and I'm looking forward to it's release, I will dissagree with you on the point of TCoS.
Although I will say this, keep thinking it's vaporware, keep putting it down when you have a chance, I think you should do it when you can. The more people that are proved wrong when the game releases, the more shock value will come along with that and you just can't buy that kind of advertising.
I would add though that almost any feature you'd be interested in knowing about is all in the forums over at tcos.com. It quite literally take all of about 2 minutes to find.