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Eurogamer Vanguard Review
Kilgore
Member Posts: 7
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Kilgore
Member Posts: 7
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Though they failed me on WoW
who me ?
I have avoided commenting on other reviews, becuase they were either too shallow or unrealistic. Here is a very well thought, balanced and truthful review. It is looking at the strengths of the game and its failures without any prejudice.
Highly recommended
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Well, everyone knows it was released a little too early. It is still a fantastic game and I feel their conclusion is fairly accurate as well. I tend to like Eurogamers reviews. This is a great game, and it is getting better day by day, just as they say. But it is still not the most polished game on the market, that much I admit.
I hope they keep to their promise and make a re-review in half a year or so.
Very fair and neutral review.
Fist time i have read from that site, iv added it to my fav list and i think ill check out their reviews on other games because I hate some places where all they do is say how great everything is.
the review doesnt put me off Vanguard in the slightest I already knew what it was like and am willing for the moment to play on becuase I belive the team will continue to make it better and better. seen a few things in the review which arent right tho, you get a mount at 10 lvl (7 for some) not lvl 11 and there are 4 class groups of 4 which is 4x4=16 classes not 15 as stated. other than that its an ok review.
Hum 1 think the review flagged as new and innovative:
It was done is WoW although to a much lesser extent (no chain attacks), for example as a hunter if I dodged an attack it opened up my Mongoose melee attack, another melee attack comes avaliable after you parry an attack.
Warriors also have an attack that can be used after a oponnent dodges their attack. And other classes have similar skills/talents.
Just thought I'd put it out there.
Just out of curiosity though, why is it some (most) game review sites choose not to take their own screen shots to represent the game rather than the generic developer-released screenies (which most of us have all seen a thousand times).
It would make sense for them to do this, since it would give us (the readers) an indication as to what Vanguard looks like on their review rig - especially since they had issues with the graphics in their review.
It is 15 classes currently, 3 tank classes Dk, Pal & War - next class additions planned are the Inquisitor tank class and the Beserker meleeDPS class (offensive fighter), I believe a Mage pet-master class with summoned minions is a possible for next after those (not certain of that)
The combat system isn't just the use dodge procer & after one dodges then use sunfist type stuff - it's also refering to the vulnerabilities that certain skills either apply or exploit for example when I use Knife Hand bleed move it creates the vulnerability afflicted on the mob, which the Warrior can exploit with savage cut or the bloodmage with bursting cyst. Plus there are combo moves as well as chains, an example combo for a disciple is using blessed wind, then cyclone kick then void hand heals your defensive target. Combo's differefrom combat reactions bridges & finishers because they are several skills in a sequence and because you can mix in other skills in between the stages so if blessed wind crits you can use falling petal finisher if that hits then use lotus blossom 2nd stage finisher then goto cyclone kick, then sidestep to the deagro kick then void hand completing the Endowment of Life heal combo. As the deagro kick then voidhand is 2 parts of a combo also you've got time to trigger 1 or 2 if you're quick skills before getting in knifehand to produce the Endowment of Mastery combo. Plus you can factor in all the weaknesses others of your group are doing plus the natural healing etc duties, and combat hs real appeal, it's fairly simple to begin but with depth to master.
I'm rather tired, so apologies if the above responses aren't the most succinct.
After the patch last night I was experiance hitching every 15 or so steps, my Leap Attack had changed to be just about worthless (hops me OVER the bloody mob), and for some reason performance got even worse than it was previously.
Isnt this the Unreal engine ? How on earth have they bogged down that so much that it runs so hideously.
I really enjoy the game but the problems with it are really starting to exasperate. That and the enforced grouping is starting to really bug me, it didnt work in EQ2 so why would they think it would work in VG?
-Gooney
I was going to post a full review of my own till i read this one.
This guy stole my brain!!!!
Its exactly as i would have written it.
One thing i would add is this.Vanguard tries to recreate a past of EQ1 pre -POP and to many old gamers this is the glory years.Even new gamers are intrested in vanguard purely based on us old timers keep ranting about the good days of EQ1.
However i think maybe sigil never did understand why we loved old EQ1.I can assure you it was not because of the horrible inability to solo by nearly all the classes.
There was certainly nothing fun about playing a ranger or SK in old EQ1 and standing outside a dungeon spamming LFG and not been able to solo anything for hours long simply because your class was not core enough or you were playing off peak times.
Ability to solo to some acceptable degree is essential to mmorpg and most mmorpg have since learnt that .The formulae is simple but works.Give player an ability to do some soloing quest and levelling but at a slower rate with less reward then grouping.It works !
The old EQ1 way,vanguard is trying to bring back died for a good reason.It was fustrating ,limiting and worst of all lead to total boredom.
Another thing i like to mention is the specs.When i played SWG and got a R9800pro card to crank all the setting up i went "wow,this certainly deserved the money on my new card its amazing".At least for its time
Same with EQ2 ,when i got a X850XT and turned it all up i went with same wow .
With vanguard i cranked up the whole setting on a 8800 and went "erm this is certainly not better then EQ2 graphics at all."It certainly does not justify its specs and matters worse it can't run vista properly despite older games like WoW and EQ2 handling vista.
"In Vanguard, the storylines of the various races, continents and factions are spread over the world more thinly than a condom over a blue whale...."
My phrase for the day, from the article. Good article BTW
"It's really quite gorgeous in places. Unfortunately, unless your PC is powered by Stephen Hawking's brain, you'll probably get about 3 FPS in this bit."
Had to LOL at this caption placed below a screenshot of Vanguard in the review. My one and only reason for not playing Vanguard - performance issues.
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
not really a good review in my honest opinion.. cause they kept comparing it to WoW.. like WoW is the standard from which all should follow for it to be a good MMO. Makes no sense, that is like saying since N'Sync sold 10 million albums that if any other band wants to be successful and good, they should follow in the footsteps of N'Sync... that is complete assinine logic.
corpse runs, xp debt, etc.. stuff they said was not fun, is fun to me, why? because it makes the game more challenge and keeps one more alert and focused while playing. cause the penalty for messing up hurts! of course some people dont like a 'challenge', which is fine and all... but that doesnt mean that stuff that is challenging isnt fun for others.
As fashionable as it is to bash WoW here, where incredibly WoW isnt' rated in the top 10, where it's compared to Macdonalds and Nsync, most of it is just baseless hatred for a universally crtically acclaimed game that millions enjoy.
As for challenge. Please. Vanguard is no more challenging than WoW. I know you would love to think it is, but it isn't. Vanguard is easy, the more time I put into it, the stronger I get. The encounters themselves, everything from 2 dot solo mobs, to 5/6dot named mobs, are identical to encounters found in WoW. Sure, there's a lot more group content, or should I say forced group content - both WoW and Vanguard allow you to do solo quests with friends.
After several years of playing MMORPGs, you come to realize that you progress in these games by investing time; not a lot of thought or effort is required most of the time. You come to realize that there's a difference between CONTENT and UNIQUE content, and that having to fight 50 mobs instead of 100 mobs to reach the bottom of a dungeon isn't really more content at all, it's just taking longer.
MMORPGs are analogous with watching television. All the monsters in these games, except for the scripted challenges - which Vanguard sadly pales in comparison to WoW, are fought the same way. The only way you'll ever be challenged is if you're playing against players in PvP - or perhaps racing them in PvE.
Do not confuse time invested with challenge, my friend - life is too precious to waste on false perceptions like that.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
God, how refreshing to read a review that has no clear bias. Very well written, clever, and clear.
A+ Eurogamer you get a smiley face today!
OK first off, just because millions of people like something doesnt mean it is good, if millions of people loved the idea of eating cat turds for breakfast doesnt mean it is good, same with WoW..
and yes the article did in fact compare Vanguard directly to WoW when it talked about what is fun and not fun and how Blizzard has been able to make things fun with WoW... well fun is subjective is it not? So saying certain aspects of Vanguard are not fun because Blizzard makes them fun in WoW is an assinine comparison and conclusion, it shouldnt be stated in a such a way in a review if the reviewers said its not fair to compare Vanguard with WoW in the first place.
believe me I am not confusing time invested with challenge at all, there was no time needed to invest into Shadowbane for it to have a challenge, could be R7 in 7 hours if you knew what you were doing, but the challenge was in how you spec'd your chara out and using the associated spec in combat.
the review sucked in my opinion, overall at least, but it did do a good job on a few aspects.
I just want to dispute this paragraph, vg did not copy everything from quests to the interface. WOW had the same type of quests as all the mmo's before it, was nothing new. All mmos will have the same basic principal, so all mmos will have people saying they copied something from such and such mmo. I've said it before, WoW was nothing revolutionary it did not bring anything new to the table it actually took away some of the newer type concepts in favor of easy mode. The only thing WoW had that most mmos didn't have was the moddable interface design. whehter we like it or not all mmos from wow all will have this same type of interface in some form or another. People just have to remember just because wow has 8 million subscribers does not mean that they invented the mmo. That is like saying Al Gore really invented the internet and had it in his "Lock Box" for all these years.
I just want to dispute this paragraph, vg did not copy everything from quests to the interface. WOW had the same type of quests as all the mmo's before it, was nothing new. All mmos will have the same basic principal, so all mmos will have people saying they copied something from such and such mmo. I've said it before, WoW was nothing revolutionary it did not bring anything new to the table it actually took away some of the newer type concepts in favor of easy mode. The only thing WoW had that most mmos didn't have was the moddable interface design. whehter we like it or not all mmos from wow all will have this same type of interface in some form or another. People just have to remember just because wow has 8 million subscribers does not mean that they invented the mmo. That is like saying Al Gore really invented the internet and had it in his "Lock Box" for all these years.
Dispute it you may, but look at the facts: The quest journal, is IDENTICAL to WoW. They've taken an exact copy. The way you track quests, is identical to WoW, the way you interact with NPCs is identical to WoW. Sure, other games had quests, and quest journals, but WoW's interface was at least a bit more refined than those other games, Vanguard's simply copies it. Other games are at least slightly different - VG's is a 100% copy. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, WoW's quest journal was perfect. Say what you want about the difficulty of the quests, but WoW perfected the MMO interface.
Also don't use terms like "easy mode", without explaining why WoW is easier than Vanguard. Because unless you are talking about getting the game to run well, there's no difference in difficulty. Same old time invested = uberness stuff.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Was anyone else surprised by the 6/10 after reading the whole thing?
Through the whole review I felt a 7 or a "when the bugs are fixed 8" score on the way. I guess it wasn't enough like WoW to make the reviewer happy lol. Seriously though, aside from the fact that their playing was buggy ( which I don't get, I almost never have problems, but seems to be a huge problem for lots of people), it wasn't enough like WoW for the reviewer, or their system couldn't run it well what was the justification for the 6? All in all, if you take out all of the random WoW-loving, its a solid review. I just don't see the score connection.
And please chill the flames folks, we know you love WoW and want to make all of us go to your church, but some of us don't want to.
I just want to dispute this paragraph, vg did not copy everything from quests to the interface. WOW had the same type of quests as all the mmo's before it, was nothing new. All mmos will have the same basic principal, so all mmos will have people saying they copied something from such and such mmo. I've said it before, WoW was nothing revolutionary it did not bring anything new to the table it actually took away some of the newer type concepts in favor of easy mode. The only thing WoW had that most mmos didn't have was the moddable interface design. whehter we like it or not all mmos from wow all will have this same type of interface in some form or another. People just have to remember just because wow has 8 million subscribers does not mean that they invented the mmo. That is like saying Al Gore really invented the internet and had it in his "Lock Box" for all these years.
Dispute it you may, but look at the facts: The quest journal, is IDENTICAL to WoW. They've taken an exact copy. The way you track quests, is identical to WoW, the way you interact with NPCs is identical to WoW. Sure, other games had quests, and quest journals, but WoW's interface was at least a bit more refined than those other games, Vanguard's simply copies it. Other games are at least slightly different - VG's is a 100% copy. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, WoW's quest journal was perfect. Say what you want about the difficulty of the quests, but WoW perfected the MMO interface.
Also don't use terms like "easy mode", without explaining why WoW is easier than Vanguard. Because unless you are talking about getting the game to run well, there's no difference in difficulty. Same old time invested = uberness stuff.
the quest journal is part of the ui, i didn't dispute the interface part. the way you track quests in vg is yes like wow, but the way you track quests in wow is like eq2, it's the same in most mmo's i've played. The same goes for interacting npcs. you want them to do something other than right click and a dialogue window pops???? again it's the same in most mmo's nothing new. WOW had nothing new it did COPY all it's features from mmos before it and just streamlined it and made it really casual to appeal to the mass market..........................As far as the default interface goes with vg and wow, yes it did take the same concepts as wow's ui. who wouldnt? that was the one thing i liked about wow. so it was a smart decision to put something simliar in vg. like i said pretty much all mmo's will have this type of interface from now on in one form or another.
As far as being easy mode, in wow my first character playing about 10 hours a week, i got to 60 in less then a month, i played for 2 more months after that and played about the same amount of time a week, and had gotten i believe 3 more characters to 60 with 3 of the 4 having top tier equipment from raids, now if that isn't easy what is? i only had fun the first character, the other 3 i was thinking why am i playing still. The only thing about wow that was a time investment was the end game, 1-60 was simple and a 3 year old could do it. Another reason i say it was easy mode is wow held your hand through everything. There was nothing you had to use your brain to do cuz the game told you what to do. That is the biggest reason i say easy mode. There are other reasons too but it's been awhile since i played wow so not sure if things changed. Don't get me wrong i may seem like i'm bashing wow but i'm really not, it was a good game the first time through, after that it lost its appeal to me and so i went back to games like eq2 and eve-online.
VG doesn't not hold your hand after around lvl 10 once you leave the starting areas. One of my biggest reasons i play vg and probably will for awhile to come if they keep fixing stuff like they are.
What is that expression about glass-houses?
We were defending the anti-WoW sentiment, not preaching that WoW is brilliant. Nobody was asking anybody to convert WoW. Nobody said, 'WoW is better than Vanguard in every way'. There were some comparisons, that is all.
Don't throw stones.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...