You don't have to sail in this game, you can just port around.
It's true.
Wait... that's not the word I'm looking for. What's the word for 'opposite of true'?
Are you denying the ability to port at all in PotBS from one docked ship to another docked ship that could be half way across the game world?? If you say yes but it's limited then you just lied. You said 'You don't have to sail.' How, pray tell, do you get a ship to halfway across the game world?
And, moreover, what exactly do you do in that other port? Stand around admiring the tavern wenches? Or do you instead, perhaps, get in your ship and sail it?
You're right. You don't have to sail. I won't twist your arm and make you. You can instead stand around in port telling everyone how you don't have to sail. You also don't have to walk; you can just stand very still. You don't even have to log in, for that matter.
Is PotBS a historically accurate sailing game or are the developers creating a fantasy game that allows players to avoid sailing by teleporting to other ports where they have other ships docked?
Try answering the question. Is PotBS a historically accurate sailing game or are the developers creating a fantasy game that allows players to avoid sailing by teleporting to other ports where they have other ships docked?
You've presented a false dichotomy. That's like asking, 'Is an apple red or is the sky blue? You can't have it both ways!'
But, to answer your question: No, of course it's not a historically accurate sailing game. It's never been one. Let me enumerate the ways:
* You don't have to take days and days to sail from one port to the next.
* We don't force you to sail endlessly through empty featureless seas to get to interesting content.
* We don't ever becalm you so you're stuck out on the ocean unable to move.
* We allow you to sail upwind (albeit slowly) so you don't sit around wishing you could move.
* We don't force you individually manage each sail on your ship.
* There's no scurvy.
* Your character won't die of infection when you take a wound.
* You and your crew won't starve from lack of food.
* Women and minorities are allowed to captain ships.
* When your ship sinks, we don't delete your character.
* And every other game design decision we've ever made to make the game, you know, fun instead of a boring chore.
You seem to have an inexplicable problem with traveling to your other ships. Perhaps if you explained why you think this is a problem, or what negative impact you think this will have on the game, I could better address your concerns.
... allows players to avoid sailing by teleporting to other ports where they have other ships docked?
And, like I actually said in my previous post: you can't avoid sailing. You have to get your ships to their destinations somehow. They don't magically appear at convenient ports for you to travel to. And once you reach those ports, you can't accomplish anything in them without sailing your ship, whether to nearby destinations or in missions. Also, since your cargo can't travel with you when you jump to one of your other ships, you can't accomplish anything in the economy without moving a ship from point A to point B.
The more I re-read your comments, the more I suspect you have some unspoken assumptions about how the game works. Perhaps you could try discussing those assumptions.
Try answering the question. Is PotBS a historically accurate sailing game or are the developers creating a fantasy game that allows players to avoid sailing by teleporting to other ports where they have other ships docked?
I hear if you click your shoes together, the game will uninstall by itself and you will find yourself back in your parent's basement. The technology is amazing, I tell you.
Apply lemon juice and candle flame here to reveal secret message.
we have a guy in a pirate game forum discussing whether or not he has to sail his ship?
Who would of thought, a pirate game, a sailing game based in 1600-1800 Caribbean, where you can port between locations that you have several ships docked in order to avoid actual sailing? How convenient. But the developers don't actually refer to it as porting, they call it something else to disguise the reality of the situation and gullible fools eat it up.
The reason given is that traveling on the open sea is supposedly boring. Well isn't that an assumption? And why design a game around sailing and not make it more interesting by adding random events and benefits to real time travel like finding hidden locations, encountering sea battles, perhaps tying sailing-maneuvering-wind current knowledge- star mapping- crew handling- etc skills to the actual time invested in sailing?
Nah screw it, let's just dummy it down and also slap some floating icons over everyones heads while were at it. That's realistic.
we have a guy in a pirate game forum discussing whether or not he has to sail his ship?
Who would of thought, a pirate game, a sailing game based in 1600-1800 Caribbean, where you can port between locations that you have several ships docked in order to avoid actual sailing? How convenient. But the developers don't actually refer to it as porting, they call it something else to disguise the reality of the situation and gullible fools eat it up.
The reason given is that traveling on the open sea is supposedly boring. Well isn't that an assumption? And why design a game around sailing and not make it more interesting by adding random events and benefits to real time travel like finding hidden locations, encountering sea battles, perhaps tying sailing-maneuvering-wind current knowledge- star mapping- crew handling- etc skills to the actual time invested in sailing?
Nah screw it, let's just dummy it down and also slap some floating icons over everyones heads while were at it. That's realistic.
For one, I think you should learn to read. Isildur bluntly stated that you can "port" between ships but you can not accomplish anything by it other than travel. Meaning, you cant transport cargo that way, you cant do quests that way, nothing. He also said you have to get a ship to another port before you can actually "port to it".
Two, May I also add that just because you CAN do something doesnt mean you HAVE to (i.e. "porting"). You can also just sail for fun to make it more interesting. FLS shouldnt have to force you.
Geesh I hate when people say crap that they have absolutely no facts to back it up with, and actually think they are right. Or maybe they are just try to start a flame war.
Anway isildur,
"You're right. You don't have to sail. I won't twist your arm and make you. You can instead stand around in port telling everyone how you don't have to sail. You also don't have to walk; you can just stand very still. You don't even have to log in, for that matter."
This is hilarious. I lol'd at this. If I were one of you flamers trying to make bad waves for this game. I would take the last line of that quote... as advice.
How about removing the port option from the game. It doesn't belong in this type of genre.
Why does it matter? I m sorry if I assume that your not an expert at developing online games and that FLS knows what the hell they are doing. If it was a feature that made the game dull, dont you think some of the beta testers would have asked for it to be removed?
Originally posted by Samuraisword Originally posted by Perok we have a guy in a pirate game forum discussing whether or not he has to sail his ship?
Who would of thought, a pirate game, a sailing game based in 1600-1800 Caribbean, where you can port between locations that you have several ships docked in order to avoid actual sailing? How convenient. But the developers don't actually refer to it as porting, they call it something else to disguise the reality of the situation and gullible fools eat it up.
The reason given is that traveling on the open sea is supposedly boring. Well isn't that an assumption? And why design a game around sailing and not make it more interesting by adding random events and benefits to real time travel like finding hidden locations, encountering sea battles, perhaps tying sailing-maneuvering-wind current knowledge- star mapping- crew handling- etc skills to the actual time invested in sailing?
Nah screw it, let's just dummy it down and also slap some floating icons over everyones heads while were at it. That's realistic.
You really do have to admire people that try and use the realism card in computer games. Real time travel? You want to take days or weeks to get anywhere?
The real problem with people complaining about things - without bothering with trivial things like facts or numbers - is that others that don't really know too much about it can read this and assume that everyone will constantly be teleporting to any given port, which simply isn't the case.
I think it would be funny to have some natural disasters in their. I mean there you are sailing along and a rogue wave comes out of no where to annihilate your fleet! If I was a dev I would use that to police exploiters and the such!
I think it would be funny to have some natural disasters in their. I mean there you are sailing along and a rogue wave comes out of no where to annihilate your fleet! If I was a dev I would use that to police exploiters and the such!
Old school EQ1 had the element of unexpected danger and disaster. First they made traveling interesting by offering rare outdoor spawns. Then by having mobs roam large wide patterns with multiple spawn points, it kept things real and interesting. Even some low level starting zones had a higher mob that you would have to watch out for who would rage and kill many of the lowbies, It provided a level of realism and danger that was fun.
Obviously if you design a sailing game with endless ocean and nothing EVER to see or do, then you would need to create unrealistic porting type systems, but why design such a lame scenario. Make it interesting.
I think it would be funny to have some natural disasters in their. I mean there you are sailing along and a rogue wave comes out of no where to annihilate your fleet! If I was a dev I would use that to police exploiters and the such!
Obviously if you design a sailing game with endless ocean and nothing EVER to see or do, then you would need to create unrealistic porting type systems, but why design such a lame scenario. Make it interesting.
Oh, there will be plenty to see and do in the open sea. In fact, if you look at our web site you can find an excellent devlog on the subject. To make your life easier, here it is:
In fact, making your life easier and more fun is why we have the entire concept of letting you port between your ships in the first place. You see, we believe that the ranking is:
1. Stable Game
2. Fun Game
3. Historically Accurate Game
Although there is certainly an argument to be made over 1 and 2. Rock solid bordem probably doesn't trump occasionally crashing in a rocking game. But we, and we think most people, prefer a game be fun over perfectly accurate. And we're willing to stretch reality to make a game that is easier to play. If you've got a warship docked on one side of the Caribbean and you're in a merchant ship on the other, and when you log in your buddies want to make an armada and go beat up on the French (and after all who doesn't) we're not going to make you take a passenger ship from one side of the game world to the other so you can play with them. It may be "right" but it isn't "fun" .
Fun is a matter of perspective. For me #3 equals #2.
The word fun as you describe it, can also be substituted with the word ease. As a clever developer you are keen to limit the use of that accurate term and it's negative connotations. It's easier to place icons over quest NPCs heads so that lazy people don't have to engage them and explore. It's easier to be able to port around the Caribbean to avoid real travel even though it's totally unrealistic and cheapens the environment.
Veteran gamers such as myself want to be challenged. That is fun for us. Perhaps if you offered a hardcore ruleset server you could satisfy all types of gamers. If you want to appeal to the masses though, you are on track. Those that like easy dummied down games such as WoW and LotRO may also find a home in your Disneyesque version of PotBS.
Fun is a matter of perspective. For me #3 equals #2. The word fun as you describe it, can also be substituted with the word ease. As a clever developer you are keen to limit the use of that accurate term and it's negative connotations. It's easier to place icons over quest NPCs heads so that lazy people don't have to engage them and explore. It's easier to be able to port around the Caribbean to avoid real travel even though it's totally unrealistic and cheapens the environment. Veteran gamers such as myself want to be challenged. That is fun for us. Perhaps if you offered a hardcore ruleset server you could satisfy all types of gamers. If you want to appeal to the masses though, you are on track. Those that like easy dummied down games such as WoW and LotRO may also find a home in your Disneyesque version of PotBS.
True. There are certainly many definitions of fun, and historical accuracy is more of a spectrum than a binary value. As developers we need to figure out where we want to be on the spectrum to appeal to a wide range of our target market. Disney, in their game with skeleton pirates and shooting at kraken tentacles, is at one end of the spectrum, and total reality is at the other. Having sailed around the Virgin Islands in a sloop, I can confidently state that I wouldn't want to do that in a computer game in real time. Nor would 99.9% of the players out there.
So with the stupid extremes out of the way it becomes a question of where in the reasonable middle we end up. And that's a wide enough range for lots of equally valid opinions. Early in our development process we in fact did try far more realisitic sailing times, and it played extremely poorly. 45 minutes between islands, while much less than the real world, is still way too long. Sure, we could throw in lots of random encounters to liven up the boring reality of long distance sailing (we can't ship with a "spritz the user with salt spray" USB device ), but that's just being unrealistical and cheap in a different way. So we compress the world in the navigation zone instead. It's designed to make sailing between ports take "reasonable" amounts of gameplay time, with enough encounters to be "interesting", with tunable values for "reasonable" and "intersting" that can get tweaked based on usablity and beta feedback.
As for quest icons, well that's something of a gaming convention at this point, isn't it? To some extent it is a shortcut to let the player "get to the good stuff" easily, but it also is designed to make up for the fact that this is a game world and not the real one. In the real world, there aren't lots of people with work to hand out to random strangers. And even in the game world, if you've got a town populated with enough NPC's to feel "alive" a large percentage of them aren't going to have anything for you to do. At what hit-rate of talking to people and finding a mission does it change from "exploring" and "challenging" to "frustrating"? Varies from person to person of course, but I think most people will quickly become unhappy with finding the NPC's they need without floating labels and icons. Particularly since the person you talked to at level 5 who didn't have anything for you to do might very well have something at level 7. Or because you finished some other mission. Or because your reputation with some group changed. Or because you've talked to some other NPC. Or you've lost your ship. etc. etc. In a complex world, the requirements on a mission being available have infinite variations, unpredictable to a player, and you're not going to want to talk to every NPC in town over and over looking for the changes. So we use a gaming convention and put a floating icon there when they've got a mission to offer you. It's not perfect, but it's better than the alternative.
And of course, being in business, we're interested in appealing to as many people as we can. While we certainly can't be all things to all people, there's a sweet spot to aim for where we've got enough realism to satisfy most of the hardcores, and enough ease of use to be playable by most of the neophytes. There will always be some on each end of the spectrum for whom we're not a good fit, and they'll either pass us by or drift away on the tide. We just hope to make a solid game that'll be fun for most of the folks who try it, and after that our success is up to the winds of fate.
I appreciate the professional response, I understand the middleground you are aiming for. I think having a hardcore ruleset server though is the best and easiest way to satisfy gamers who want more realism and more of a challenge. It's nearly impossible to market a game for the casual masses and hope to satisfy most veteran gamers.
As far as the questgivers go, I do agree that having to recheck NPCs to see if they have new quests throughout the leveling process is annoying. I have a solution, one I have thought of for quite some time, but it does require more coding and data storage, something for the future perhaps, maybe in another game.
First, since your game does not allow targeting of fluff NPCs, that is enough of a shortcut to do away with the floating icons. Only NPCs that have something noteworthy to say can be targeted anyways. Now every player is expected to make initial contact with a new NPC they discover that has something to say. The NPC then will either have a quest at that time or not. After the initial introduction, the NPC knows the individual player, and it's reasonable that if they have quests in the future, as the player levels up or adjusts faction, that the NPC will notify the player of the task they need help with via an ingame mail system. Not only does that preserve immersion by allowing you to forgo the stupid icons, but it removes the tedium of rechecking NPCs while giving the player a feeling that their personal actions are affecting the gameworld, and thus increases immersion.
I am still probably gonna check out PotBS because the nautical historical element is very attractive to me, it just depends on wether Chronicles of Spellborn releases first or not. I just don't think PotBS will hold me though, because the icons and porting concept are annoying. We will see.
I appreciate the professional response, I understand the middleground you are aiming for. I think having a hardcore ruleset server though is the best and easiest way to satisfy gamers who want more realism and more of a challenge. It's nearly impossible to market a game for the casual masses and hope to satisfy most veteran gamers. -------------------------------------------------------
I have to disagree with you here. "Hardcore" ruleset servers never, from what I've seen, manage to make people happy, they just manage to split up the community and resources. Even with Hardcore ruleset servers, you're going to have people complaining that either it's "Too hardcore" or "Not hardcore enough". I feel that having separate ruleset servers would actually hurt the game.
As far as the questgivers go, I do agree that having to recheck NPCs to see if they have new quests throughout the leveling process is annoying. I have a solution, one I have thought of for quite some time, but it does require more coding and data storage, something for the future perhaps, maybe in another game. First, since your game does not allow targeting of fluff NPCs, that is enough of a shortcut to do away with the floating icons. Only NPCs that have something noteworthy to say can be targeted anyways. Now every player is expected to make initial contact with a new NPC they discover that has something to say. The NPC then will either have a quest at that time or not. After the initial introduction, the NPC knows the individual player, and it's reasonable that if they have quests in the future, as the player levels up or adjusts faction, that the NPC will notify the player of the task they need help with via an ingame mail system. Not only does that preserve immersion by allowing you to forgo the stupid icons, but it removes the tedium of rechecking NPCs while giving the player a feeling that their personal actions are affecting the gameworld, and thus increases immersion.
------------------------------------------------------------ That would increase immersion to an extent, but then it would turn into: 1. Enter Town 2. Randomly click on everyone you see It would just add tedium, you still wouldn't have to meet NPCs, or talk to everyone, you'd just click on everyone you see. Maybe they have an option to turn the quest icons off? -------------------------------------------------------------
I am still probably gonna check out PotBS because the nautical historical element is very attractive to me, it just depends on wether Chronicles of Spellborn releases first or not. I just don't think PotBS will hold me though, because the icons and porting concept are annoying. We will see. --------------------------------------------------------------
I somewhat understand what the beef is with the porting, but it doesn't sound that bad. Maybe if they dressed it up a little better, like you have to pay a sailor at the docks to take you to the port you want to go to and there's a random chance that pirates will attack and board the ship and you'll have to help the crew fight them.
I believe it was said somewhere that this is what you make of it. If you don't want to port to another Dock than you don't have too. No one is making you go there. It would be like me getting angry at flying a plane to get to California faster instead of driving my Car to give me a sense the world is bigger. Do I have to fly? Nope. Should I get mad flying is an option? Nope. Honestly it's very selfish. "Um... I know you want to please the most people but you should get rid of this because I want it. No I don't care what everyone else wants it's all about me!" Please grow up and stop insulting the FLS staff as they didn't work for almost 5 years to hear you complain about a feature that makes YOUR life easier.
Same applies with the Fantasy-ish content. They have it setup so you never HAVE to see it. It exists if you say it does. If you think it is utter nonsense than it is. YOU get to decide! Personally I love the idea of chasing a Ghost Ship and possibly fighting it or taking on a Sea Monster. It adds a certain element to the game that only makes it more appealing to those who want some form of fantasy. They have already said that this game isn't an Age of the Sail Simulator it is an MMORPG set in the early 18th Century about Pirates and the European Powers of the time. My character didn't historically exist then but he sure as hell will be there {causing lots of trouble for the French, Spanish and English Navies >=) } So stop picking on something because it isn't as "hardcore" as YOU want. How about you wait until it comes out to start picking on it that way you have some knowledge of what you are actually talking about because as it stands you most likely have not played any form of the game and if you had it is the limited Beta that doesn't have all the features.
It's more based on history than OST, though we are fans of Tim Powers and OST.
The single reason I lost interest in this game was that I found out it wasn't going to be an historical pirate game. I hate fantasy and although this isn't exactly Lord of the Rings Online it's still fantasy. I want a pirate game that's set fair and square in the historical age of piracy. The first thing that tipped me off was the clothing - no sailor in the age of piracy would be wearing 19th century clothing.
Boo! Shame on the developers for getting my expectations up and then dashing them.
You really arent going to even try a game because they have 19th century clothing ? Thats a bit much....I could see if they had on nikes or something but really you are kinda eccentric...with such particular tastes in gaming what mmo do you like ?
I'm not sure how rare spawning mobs equal a challenge to hardcore gamers. I'm a hardcore gamer and there is no ai mob feature or quest that is a challenge, the only challenge I get from mmos is versus real people. So if porting allows me to get to a battle in time then i'm all for it. So I think its more of a time issue not a sailing is boring issue. I don't think looking for quests npcs as a challenge since they don't move or anything...wait thats it make them hide from you that would be fun!
i dont see whats wrong with a couple unrealistic features in the game
and i definitely dont see why you'd completely set aside a game because you see they wear 19th century clothes (its something i never noticed or would care to notice)
so is it a fact that there will be ghost ships and what not?
I'd hope so it'd make the game a bit more interesting ya know?
In fact they are who got me to read the book . So don't be surpised to see a ship full of Skeletons , or find a voodoo doll with your likeness. Although I bet it'll be extremely rare. This game is gonna be the cats meow , although a long time coming. You have to hand it to them for staying behind there convictions and not putting out a half finished game like...Vanguard.
You know 0 about this game, i've been following it for years and i know every detail about it. The game is based around the history of the Age of Sail. Yes there is a "SuperNatural" part of the game, but the devs have designed the game so that you can completely avoid this content if you choose to keep your gameplay on the historical side. The only time you will ever see skeletons or voodoo doll type of stuff is if you choose to accept quest that take place in the "Super Natural" mission area which is instanced so you will never see it unless you want to.
Dont go around rambling about a game that you know nothing about.
Comments
Wait... that's not the word I'm looking for. What's the word for 'opposite of true'?
Are you denying the ability to port at all in PotBS from one docked ship to another docked ship that could be half way across the game world?? If you say yes but it's limited then you just lied. You said 'You don't have to sail.' How, pray tell, do you get a ship to halfway across the game world?
And, moreover, what exactly do you do in that other port? Stand around admiring the tavern wenches? Or do you instead, perhaps, get in your ship and sail it?
You're right. You don't have to sail. I won't twist your arm and make you. You can instead stand around in port telling everyone how you don't have to sail. You also don't have to walk; you can just stand very still. You don't even have to log in, for that matter.
Try answering the question.
Is PotBS a historically accurate sailing game or are the developers creating a fantasy game that allows players to avoid sailing by teleporting to other ports where they have other ships docked?
But, to answer your question: No, of course it's not a historically accurate sailing game. It's never been one. Let me enumerate the ways:
* You don't have to take days and days to sail from one port to the next.
* We don't force you to sail endlessly through empty featureless seas to get to interesting content.
* We don't ever becalm you so you're stuck out on the ocean unable to move.
* We allow you to sail upwind (albeit slowly) so you don't sit around wishing you could move.
* We don't force you individually manage each sail on your ship.
* There's no scurvy.
* Your character won't die of infection when you take a wound.
* You and your crew won't starve from lack of food.
* Women and minorities are allowed to captain ships.
* When your ship sinks, we don't delete your character.
* And every other game design decision we've ever made to make the game, you know, fun instead of a boring chore.
You seem to have an inexplicable problem with traveling to your other ships. Perhaps if you explained why you think this is a problem, or what negative impact you think this will have on the game, I could better address your concerns.
The more I re-read your comments, the more I suspect you have some unspoken assumptions about how the game works. Perhaps you could try discussing those assumptions.
I hear if you click your shoes together, the game will uninstall by itself and you will find yourself back in your parent's basement. The technology is amazing, I tell you.
Apply lemon juice and candle flame here to reveal secret message.
we have a guy in a pirate game forum discussing whether or not he has to sail his ship?
Could happen you know
Who would of thought, a pirate game, a sailing game based in 1600-1800 Caribbean, where you can port between locations that you have several ships docked in order to avoid actual sailing? How convenient. But the developers don't actually refer to it as porting, they call it something else to disguise the reality of the situation and gullible fools eat it up.
The reason given is that traveling on the open sea is supposedly boring. Well isn't that an assumption? And why design a game around sailing and not make it more interesting by adding random events and benefits to real time travel like finding hidden locations, encountering sea battles, perhaps tying sailing-maneuvering-wind current knowledge- star mapping- crew handling- etc skills to the actual time invested in sailing?
Nah screw it, let's just dummy it down and also slap some floating icons over everyones heads while were at it. That's realistic.
Who would of thought, a pirate game, a sailing game based in 1600-1800 Caribbean, where you can port between locations that you have several ships docked in order to avoid actual sailing? How convenient. But the developers don't actually refer to it as porting, they call it something else to disguise the reality of the situation and gullible fools eat it up.
The reason given is that traveling on the open sea is supposedly boring. Well isn't that an assumption? And why design a game around sailing and not make it more interesting by adding random events and benefits to real time travel like finding hidden locations, encountering sea battles, perhaps tying sailing-maneuvering-wind current knowledge- star mapping- crew handling- etc skills to the actual time invested in sailing?
Nah screw it, let's just dummy it down and also slap some floating icons over everyones heads while were at it. That's realistic.
For one, I think you should learn to read. Isildur bluntly stated that you can "port" between ships but you can not accomplish anything by it other than travel. Meaning, you cant transport cargo that way, you cant do quests that way, nothing. He also said you have to get a ship to another port before you can actually "port to it".
Two, May I also add that just because you CAN do something doesnt mean you HAVE to (i.e. "porting"). You can also just sail for fun to make it more interesting. FLS shouldnt have to force you.
Geesh I hate when people say crap that they have absolutely no facts to back it up with, and actually think they are right. Or maybe they are just try to start a flame war.
Anway isildur,
"You're right. You don't have to sail. I won't twist your arm and make you. You can instead stand around in port telling everyone how you don't have to sail. You also don't have to walk; you can just stand very still. You don't even have to log in, for that matter."
This is hilarious. I lol'd at this. If I were one of you flamers trying to make bad waves for this game. I would take the last line of that quote... as advice.
The reason given is that traveling on the open sea is supposedly boring. Well isn't that an assumption? And why design a game around sailing and not make it more interesting by adding random events and benefits to real time travel like finding hidden locations, encountering sea battles, perhaps tying sailing-maneuvering-wind current knowledge- star mapping- crew handling- etc skills to the actual time invested in sailing?
Nah screw it, let's just dummy it down and also slap some floating icons over everyones heads while were at it. That's realistic.
You really do have to admire people that try and use the realism card in computer games. Real time travel? You want to take days or weeks to get anywhere?
The real problem with people complaining about things - without bothering with trivial things like facts or numbers - is that others that don't really know too much about it can read this and assume that everyone will constantly be teleporting to any given port, which simply isn't the case.
Old school EQ1 had the element of unexpected danger and disaster. First they made traveling interesting by offering rare outdoor spawns. Then by having mobs roam large wide patterns with multiple spawn points, it kept things real and interesting. Even some low level starting zones had a higher mob that you would have to watch out for who would rage and kill many of the lowbies, It provided a level of realism and danger that was fun.
Obviously if you design a sailing game with endless ocean and nothing EVER to see or do, then you would need to create unrealistic porting type systems, but why design such a lame scenario. Make it interesting.
Obviously if you design a sailing game with endless ocean and nothing EVER to see or do, then you would need to create unrealistic porting type systems, but why design such a lame scenario. Make it interesting.
Oh, there will be plenty to see and do in the open sea. In fact, if you look at our web site you can find an excellent devlog on the subject. To make your life easier, here it is:
http://www.burningsea.com/pages/page.php?pageKey=news/article&article_id=10314
In fact, making your life easier and more fun is why we have the entire concept of letting you port between your ships in the first place. You see, we believe that the ranking is:
1. Stable Game
2. Fun Game
3. Historically Accurate Game
Although there is certainly an argument to be made over 1 and 2. Rock solid bordem probably doesn't trump occasionally crashing in a rocking game. But we, and we think most people, prefer a game be fun over perfectly accurate. And we're willing to stretch reality to make a game that is easier to play. If you've got a warship docked on one side of the Caribbean and you're in a merchant ship on the other, and when you log in your buddies want to make an armada and go beat up on the French (and after all who doesn't) we're not going to make you take a passenger ship from one side of the game world to the other so you can play with them. It may be "right" but it isn't "fun" .
Fun wins. Always.
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
Fun is a matter of perspective. For me #3 equals #2.
The word fun as you describe it, can also be substituted with the word ease. As a clever developer you are keen to limit the use of that accurate term and it's negative connotations. It's easier to place icons over quest NPCs heads so that lazy people don't have to engage them and explore. It's easier to be able to port around the Caribbean to avoid real travel even though it's totally unrealistic and cheapens the environment.
Veteran gamers such as myself want to be challenged. That is fun for us. Perhaps if you offered a hardcore ruleset server you could satisfy all types of gamers. If you want to appeal to the masses though, you are on track. Those that like easy dummied down games such as WoW and LotRO may also find a home in your Disneyesque version of PotBS.
True. There are certainly many definitions of fun, and historical accuracy is more of a spectrum than a binary value. As developers we need to figure out where we want to be on the spectrum to appeal to a wide range of our target market. Disney, in their game with skeleton pirates and shooting at kraken tentacles, is at one end of the spectrum, and total reality is at the other. Having sailed around the Virgin Islands in a sloop, I can confidently state that I wouldn't want to do that in a computer game in real time. Nor would 99.9% of the players out there.
So with the stupid extremes out of the way it becomes a question of where in the reasonable middle we end up. And that's a wide enough range for lots of equally valid opinions. Early in our development process we in fact did try far more realisitic sailing times, and it played extremely poorly. 45 minutes between islands, while much less than the real world, is still way too long. Sure, we could throw in lots of random encounters to liven up the boring reality of long distance sailing (we can't ship with a "spritz the user with salt spray" USB device
), but that's just being unrealistical and cheap in a different way. So we compress the world in the navigation zone instead. It's designed to make sailing between ports take "reasonable" amounts of gameplay time, with enough encounters to be "interesting", with tunable values for "reasonable" and "intersting" that can get tweaked based on usablity and beta feedback.
As for quest icons, well that's something of a gaming convention at this point, isn't it? To some extent it is a shortcut to let the player "get to the good stuff" easily, but it also is designed to make up for the fact that this is a game world and not the real one. In the real world, there aren't lots of people with work to hand out to random strangers. And even in the game world, if you've got a town populated with enough NPC's to feel "alive" a large percentage of them aren't going to have anything for you to do. At what hit-rate of talking to people and finding a mission does it change from "exploring" and "challenging" to "frustrating"? Varies from person to person of course, but I think most people will quickly become unhappy with finding the NPC's they need without floating labels and icons. Particularly since the person you talked to at level 5 who didn't have anything for you to do might very well have something at level 7. Or because you finished some other mission. Or because your reputation with some group changed. Or because you've talked to some other NPC. Or you've lost your ship. etc. etc. In a complex world, the requirements on a mission being available have infinite variations, unpredictable to a player, and you're not going to want to talk to every NPC in town over and over looking for the changes. So we use a gaming convention and put a floating icon there when they've got a mission to offer you. It's not perfect, but it's better than the alternative.
And of course, being in business, we're interested in appealing to as many people as we can. While we certainly can't be all things to all people, there's a sweet spot to aim for where we've got enough realism to satisfy most of the hardcores, and enough ease of use to be playable by most of the neophytes. There will always be some on each end of the spectrum for whom we're not a good fit, and they'll either pass us by or drift away on the tide. We just hope to make a solid game that'll be fun for most of the folks who try it, and after that our success is up to the winds of fate.
Rick Saada
FLS Developer and EPFBM
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
I appreciate the professional response, I understand the middleground you are aiming for. I think having a hardcore ruleset server though is the best and easiest way to satisfy gamers who want more realism and more of a challenge. It's nearly impossible to market a game for the casual masses and hope to satisfy most veteran gamers.
As far as the questgivers go, I do agree that having to recheck NPCs to see if they have new quests throughout the leveling process is annoying. I have a solution, one I have thought of for quite some time, but it does require more coding and data storage, something for the future perhaps, maybe in another game.
First, since your game does not allow targeting of fluff NPCs, that is enough of a shortcut to do away with the floating icons. Only NPCs that have something noteworthy to say can be targeted anyways. Now every player is expected to make initial contact with a new NPC they discover that has something to say. The NPC then will either have a quest at that time or not. After the initial introduction, the NPC knows the individual player, and it's reasonable that if they have quests in the future, as the player levels up or adjusts faction, that the NPC will notify the player of the task they need help with via an ingame mail system. Not only does that preserve immersion by allowing you to forgo the stupid icons, but it removes the tedium of rechecking NPCs while giving the player a feeling that their personal actions are affecting the gameworld, and thus increases immersion.
I am still probably gonna check out PotBS because the nautical historical element is very attractive to me, it just depends on wether Chronicles of Spellborn releases first or not. I just don't think PotBS will hold me though, because the icons and porting concept are annoying. We will see.
I believe it was said somewhere that this is what you make of it. If you don't want to port to another Dock than you don't have too. No one is making you go there. It would be like me getting angry at flying a plane to get to California faster instead of driving my Car to give me a sense the world is bigger. Do I have to fly? Nope. Should I get mad flying is an option? Nope. Honestly it's very selfish. "Um... I know you want to please the most people but you should get rid of this because I want it. No I don't care what everyone else wants it's all about me!" Please grow up and stop insulting the FLS staff as they didn't work for almost 5 years to hear you complain about a feature that makes YOUR life easier.
Same applies with the Fantasy-ish content. They have it setup so you never HAVE to see it. It exists if you say it does. If you think it is utter nonsense than it is. YOU get to decide! Personally I love the idea of chasing a Ghost Ship and possibly fighting it or taking on a Sea Monster. It adds a certain element to the game that only makes it more appealing to those who want some form of fantasy. They have already said that this game isn't an Age of the Sail Simulator it is an MMORPG set in the early 18th Century about Pirates and the European Powers of the time. My character didn't historically exist then but he sure as hell will be there
{causing lots of trouble for the French, Spanish and English Navies >=) } So stop picking on something because it isn't as "hardcore" as YOU want. How about you wait until it comes out to start picking on it that way you have some knowledge of what you are actually talking about because as it stands you most likely have not played any form of the game and if you had it is the limited Beta that doesn't have all the features.
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Captain Jack "Black Jack" Drake
- Captain Jack "Black Jack" Drake
The single reason I lost interest in this game was that I found out it wasn't going to be an historical pirate game. I hate fantasy and although this isn't exactly Lord of the Rings Online it's still fantasy. I want a pirate game that's set fair and square in the historical age of piracy. The first thing that tipped me off was the clothing - no sailor in the age of piracy would be wearing 19th century clothing.
Boo! Shame on the developers for getting my expectations up and then dashing them.
You really arent going to even try a game because they have 19th century clothing ? Thats a bit much....I could see if they had on nikes or something but really you are kinda eccentric...with such particular tastes in gaming what mmo do you like ?
I'm not sure how rare spawning mobs equal a challenge to hardcore gamers. I'm a hardcore gamer and there is no ai mob feature or quest that is a challenge, the only challenge I get from mmos is versus real people. So if porting allows me to get to a battle in time then i'm all for it. So I think its more of a time issue not a sailing is boring issue. I don't think looking for quests npcs as a challenge since they don't move or anything...wait thats it make them hide from you that would be fun!
Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7
so wait
i dont see whats wrong with a couple unrealistic features in the game
and i definitely dont see why you'd completely set aside a game because you see they wear 19th century clothes (its something i never noticed or would care to notice)
so is it a fact that there will be ghost ships and what not?
I'd hope so it'd make the game a bit more interesting ya know?
You know 0 about this game, i've been following it for years and i know every detail about it. The game is based around the history of the Age of Sail. Yes there is a "SuperNatural" part of the game, but the devs have designed the game so that you can completely avoid this content if you choose to keep your gameplay on the historical side. The only time you will ever see skeletons or voodoo doll type of stuff is if you choose to accept quest that take place in the "Super Natural" mission area which is instanced so you will never see it unless you want to.
Dont go around rambling about a game that you know nothing about.
NEXT!!!