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I dont think WoWs idea was to make the mmorpg industry to be softer
VallenRo
Member Posts: 27
Every one says how WoW ruined mmorpgs and made them softer or made the players softer. I dont think so i think blizzard took a look at EQ, UO, what ever was out at that time and most mmorpgs were heavily time consuming, i think blizzards WoW was just to add a mmorpg for fun and dont have to require alot of time to it. I dont think WoW should be compared to any mmorpg of today because like music you cant compare rap and rock and country its all about taste.
People love WoW because they can play WoW and enjoy it and not invest alot of time into it, though you CAN invest alot of time into it and get rewarded very well. Though others hate WoW because its easiness and how fast it is to fulfull things. WoW is a great game but only for the certain player.
Comments
B.) it doesn't matter what the Blizzard's intent was, and they are not directly to blame. Those directly at fault are the developers (or more accurately, the ones who who pay the developers) who are reacting to WOW's presence and success by trying to duplicate it in hopes of winning big heaps of dough.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
If WoW opened up a server with "full loot" then you'd see gankers flock back to it quickly. The game is great, they just don't like all the rules.
As far as "Making the industry softer" goes... well that's both true and false probably. Blizzard wanted to make the game easy for for everybody, they succeeded. That's why "everybody" (used loosely) plays it.
It's not really a coincidence that the gankers happen to be the insanely vocal ones on the Boards. But the Subscription Numbers show, I believe, what the majority is. The Forums show, what I believe, to be the vocal group mostly.
...it's actually no surprise that the peoples who want to slaughter each other for kicks are the ones screaming on Forums. Right?
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
not the only people, because I for one am not a "ganker" I dislike open PVP servers on most MMOs. the couple reasons I don't like WoW is ...
1) its too simplistic - everything from class design to the quest system, its all too basic for me.
2) too easy - I mean seriously if the game was any easier the computer would play the game for you. Also there was no feeling of danger
3) Graphics - now this is just my personal choice obviously, but i hate the cartoony look and feel of the game ... I could never get into it because i always felt it was a bad saturday morning cartoon. and maybe it fits with Warcraft lore but its just my personal preference.
4) the game didn't seem like a MMO to me, it felt like a single player RPG that you played with others. It would be like saying Solitare is a multiplayer game because you are playing at the same table with for other solitare players.
maybe blizzard didn't intend to dumb down the MMO market, but unfortunately they have since thier game is so successful.
i dont dislike WoW, they succed where lot of dev failed... taking the good ideas of lot of games and puting them together how thye should have been .. exept for pvp wich is its major flaws.
blyzzard wanted to attract the more people posisble. using a already VERY famous licence they couldnt fail either.. they mananged to make a intersintg game with a good gameplay. it also brang a lot of people to the mmo's world making them wonder what else existed and therefore helping in a way smaller productions too.. but the standart of excellence reached now is not reachable by everyone...you cant realse a unfinished game anymore liek a few years ago ( now days a betas is usually in a better shape than a release 6/7 years ago )
80% of the WOW players base never played a mmo before, and the average of the comunauty is also younger than it used to be.the gamecards system makes also eazyer for teenagers to play those games wich bring a lot more of immature players to the comunauty. Not saying that we never had hasshat befores dont get me wrong.. but the age average going down the risk are higher..
i dont like WoW, i still played it for a 1yeatr or so and try allthe endgame content, the game brang good things to our comunauty and bad ones but anyways we do need "bombs" liek that now and then or we jsut get stuck in old standarts forever !
What Blizzard did was take the popular elements of the existing MMOs and create a new MMO based on those alone. This isnt in itself a bad thing, it is what you would do if you want a to make a popular item to market and make lots of sales off of, you see it in every facet of modern industry. Popular cars are not the best cars, but they do sell more. Fast food is not the best food, but it does sell more. Popular music is not technically the best music, but it does sell more. Popular books are not always the best pieces of literature, but the do sell more. I think you see the trend here.
And herein lies the problem, most people are happy to drive a common car, eat at a fast food resturant, listen to pop music, read a popular book. But personally, I would rather be driving a sports car, eating in a proper resturant, I prefer reading books that make me think, and likewise I prefer MMOs that are more of a challenge.
For me WoW wasnt a challenge, the PvE was simple, the quests were all things I had done before, the raid content was okay the first couple of times but once the correct procedure had been worked out it become dull and there just wasnt enough of it to keep me going. The PvP was simple, no real need to think or react to your opponent, its was the same class specific routines everytime, most people didnt fight back in 1v1s and the BGs were just farms full of sheep.
Unfortunately, many investors in the MMO market have seen the money that WoW is pulling in and want a share of that, much the same way that car manufacturers followed Ford into the mass production of cars. They arent after creating something new or groundbreaking anymore (like the early MMOs, UO, EQ, DAoC, etc), they are only interested in producing a popular MMO. This basically means making it simple enough that the average person can pick it up and wont get annoyed when they die because they cant grasp more complex gameplay mechanics.
That is the basic problem after WoW came along, investors arent going to take a gamble on the more cutting edge MMO ideas when they can take the safer option. Fundamental problem with capitalism, its not about making a good product, its about making a profitable product.
Accually WoW is very time consuming; Blizzard just went about doing it a little dif. then the MMO's that were out at the time.
WoW has fast leveling with the time sink incorparated at the level cap, with things like rep and instance grinding.
Before that you would spend about as much time leveling as you would doing end game.
Regardless every MMO is designed to keep you playing for months on end, how they go about it really doesn't matter because it's all the same thing. Blizzard just hides the fact by making the leveling process as painless as possible; if you're someone that enjoys playing multiple classes and don't really participate in raids then WoW will feel dif., but if you play a main toon and raid then it's no dif. then any of the older MMO's out there, you just raid at max lvl sooner.
The biggest dif. to me is that other games give you the chance to raid WHILE leveling, and WoW doesn't. Personally I never liked that Blizzard give you one game from 1-59 or 69 then an entirely dif. game at the level cap.
Heres a question for you. How many people would be playing WoW if they had to grind rep and faction at lvl 20 or grind to get keyed for instances like SFK or WC.
I have a feeling that while WoW has the highest sub rate of MMO's it also has one of the highest turn over rates. I think that peole who enjoy games like EQ1, UO, or lineage 2 are more likely to stick to those games for a much longer period of time then some of the WoW player base.
it would be interesting to see statistics on this issue. subscriptions to other mmorpgs since wow release. i guess wow did a hype to the genre in general. i started with world of warcraft and then switched to other mmos. without it i would still be playing console games.
I'm curious, what got you to play WoW.
My first was CoH and then I went to L2 then WoW. I played WoW a lot over the course of 2 years, but I also would leave then come back, but then my issue with the game has always been the lack of options outside of combat so when I got bored of killing stuff I really didn't have any other options to keep me in the game.
You can pick it up without every playing a MMO before, and without reading a manual and hit the max level easily.
Everyone likes McDonalds or Taco Bell now and then. Not everyone wants hot Thai food.
I think what WoW has proven is that MMOs can be a massive hit.
I think we could have a MMO that is easy to play, and still allows hard core people the
hours to refine every aspect of their characters life.
PvP killed WoW for me. I want either free for all hardcore killing/looting or LOTRO style where you don't have normal player vs player character PvP.
WoW to EQ1 is like checkers to chess. You cant say checkers is dumbed down chess. Its a completely different type of game. Maybe with a simpler set of rules but still a game on its own. WoWs success is a formula that doesnt require Xnumber of hours invested before the fun begins. Which means in plain english: you can just login and start playing right away, you dont need to wait for a group, or spend countless hours camping rare mob (Stormfeather anyone?). Its quick, fluid, action oriented and fun. Simple? perhpas. Easy? sometimes. learning curve? nonexistant. Time sink? if you want, but not necessary at all. Fun? you betcha.
The truth is, WoW has done one thing that rarely any1 notices. WoW has introduced MILLIONS of players to the whole MMORPG genre. Those millions would of most likely be turned off by hardcore games like EQ1 and L2. Eventualy, as they progress through difficulty levels from one game to another, they will learn to play harder games, thus increasing MMORPG population globaly. This is great news! More people, more revenue, more games and better games. After all, who jumps into a race car right away? You start with an old and rusty toyota and move up the difficulty ladder. GG.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
WOW is an ongoing perfect example of the oft-quoted, but frequently misunderstood phrase, "The customer is always right." They found out what customers wanted, and gave it to them. This is in contradistinction to lots of other games I won't bother to name (because it's almost ALL the other games out there) where the players are told their wants/desires "don't fit into the vision" of the developers, and to talk to the hand if they don't like it.
All those imbeciles who say, "Don't let the door hit you on the way out" have got their wish now... the people they said that to left, and went to WOW... and now there are 8 million of them, while the "hardcore" games are doing things like server mergers. And what I find deliciously ironic is how the same people who said "don't let the door hit you on your way out" to the people who complained about the hardcore games, are now stuck whining incessantly about the success of WOW and how it ruined the market. And that brings in mind another great saying: "Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it."
C
oo did i strike a nerve?
not the only people, because I for one am not a "ganker" I dislike open PVP servers on most MMOs. the couple reasons I don't like WoW is ...
1) its too simplistic - everything from class design to the quest system, its all too basic for me.
2) too easy - I mean seriously if the game was any easier the computer would play the game for you. Also there was no feeling of danger
3) Graphics - now this is just my personal choice obviously, but i hate the cartoony look and feel of the game ... I could never get into it because i always felt it was a bad saturday morning cartoon. and maybe it fits with Warcraft lore but its just my personal preference.
4) the game didn't seem like a MMO to me, it felt like a single player RPG that you played with others. It would be like saying Solitare is a multiplayer game because you are playing at the same table with for other solitare players.
maybe blizzard didn't intend to dumb down the MMO market, but unfortunately they have since thier game is so successful.
i'd still love to see people who think WoW is too "easy" post screenshots of them in Naxxaramas, Karazahn, any Heroic instance, etc.
The SOLO pve quests are SUPPOSE to be easy and casual.. Some of the introductary instances like Hellfire: Ramparts and Mana Tombs are "suppose" to be easier.
it's called good game design. The more difficult and challenging content is there, and some of it quite challenging.. but the most easily accessible content is suppose to be easy enough for the "casual" gamer.
not the only people, because I for one am not a "ganker" I dislike open PVP servers on most MMOs. the couple reasons I don't like WoW is ...
1) its too simplistic - everything from class design to the quest system, its all too basic for me.
2) too easy - I mean seriously if the game was any easier the computer would play the game for you. Also there was no feeling of danger
3) Graphics - now this is just my personal choice obviously, but i hate the cartoony look and feel of the game ... I could never get into it because i always felt it was a bad saturday morning cartoon. and maybe it fits with Warcraft lore but its just my personal preference.
4) the game didn't seem like a MMO to me, it felt like a single player RPG that you played with others. It would be like saying Solitare is a multiplayer game because you are playing at the same table with for other solitare players.
maybe blizzard didn't intend to dumb down the MMO market, but unfortunately they have since thier game is so successful.
i'd still love to see people who think WoW is too "easy" post screenshots of them in Naxxaramas, Karazahn, any Heroic instance, etc.
The SOLO pve quests are SUPPOSE to be easy and casual.. Some of the introductary instances like Hellfire: Ramparts and Mana Tombs are "suppose" to be easier.
it's called good game design. The more difficult and challenging content is there, and some of it quite challenging.. but the most easily accessible content is suppose to be easy enough for the "casual" gamer.
I would have gouged out my eyes with a spoon if i had to play that shit for more than a month. but you can see the direction of the game right from the start.
MMO-lite is the perfect way to describe WoW.
But he's right. I'm a ganker, and i say bring on the FFA pvp-looting server on WoW, or any other game that isn't 10 years old and played on a server that sits in some 24 year old's basement. I guaruntee that the first game to open a server like that will see its subscription numbers increase by 20% or more, as all the FFAers like myself will jump ship from whatever they're playing (if anything) and log onto that game