Just venting off my sorrow - Yet again another "there's no game out there for me" thread :(

odysseas70

Hi all,

I read MMORPG for years, is where I'm coming to get info and an idea of future mmorpg's or current ones, when it comes to trying another online game. I don't post here, but the time has come for me to do it too I guess.

I just want to get it out of my system like the rest I guess, so here it comes:

I have played Ultima Online for years (my first and only love till blah Trammel), then numerous other games through the years (been playing online games for 15 years) for a few months each, hoping for a UO 2 without trammel actually, but non of them did it for me. Games such as: Anarchy Online, Project Entropia, Guildwards, Roma Victor (for a few hours till I ran outta there), DaoC, Auto-Assalt (was fun for 2 weeks), WWII online, Lineage II, Eve Online, Voyage Century (not my cap of tea when you can buy with r/l money uber items in pvp, intsa heal pots etc), and others I may have missed.

Currently playing Dreamlords, not my cap of tea either but there's really nothing out there for me now

I'm looking for a game like Ultima Online pre-Trammel and pre-uber-items-hunting, a game with a free world, an open environment, where skill matters, where there are good and bad and innocent. Where the innocent try to do their work knowing the risk-reward factor, the bad guys trying to steal their hard work or PK them facing the consequences and the good guys trying to kill the bad guys, protecting the innocent....lol - Looking for a game where as I said skill matters and not who gots the uber-l33t items when it comes to PvP. Where the devs don't lead us to spend all our lives hunting for those uber items. Where I don't have to put up with 30 other mindless, geak, freak, crazy, idiotic (you name it) guys, so that I can at last kill that raid boss in hope of one item out in a 200 chance. Where we just play to enjoy the game, or as I call it our "daily gaming fun".

As you guess, I'm looking for a FFA pvp game, or else an "open" pvp game. Where there is PKing but with consequences. But not a consensual pvp designed game where they just release a pvp server. You see, in such cases, there are "no innocent". No guys that want to be crafters or resource gatherers and know that in order to collect those rare resources they must risk, or else they can stay in safety collecting the more traditional type of resources, etcetc. Anyway, without the innocent, "FFA" pvp games are nothing but a substitute, where 10 known guys hunt down 10 known others, in a server of low pop or something, till they all get bored to tears and move on. Not my cap of tea.

DaoC had a nice pvp system, but not a free/open pvp environment

Lineage II was a close one when it comes to free/open pvp environment etc, BUT, uber-l33t items were a devistating factor in pvp and it was not the skill but whoever spent the most r/l money to buy those items. I really regret spending thousands of hours lvling a char there just to reach the "end-game" and see this. All my "hard work" was wasted, and I left wanting to puke for my wasted time. I left that game telling to myself  "Never again" (will I play a game that uber-l33t items determine pvp outcome, all the more so a game where ppl spend r/l money to acquire such items).

So anyway, I know some of you will tell me, wait for Darkfall (don't even dare suggest Warhammer or AoC...they're not open pvp games but more like DAOC, with a consensual pvp zone of shorts, ie you can't pvp the one stealing your loot where you hunt).

Anyway, I do NOT want to wait for Darkfall guys, geeezz.....That's MONTHS ahead, if ever.

Not only that, I have already waited for YEARS for such a game, after Ultima Online.

So anyway, yeah, I'm frustrated, I'm....whatever....I just had to take it off my chest....it's been......too......freaking.......long......

 

 

LordDevil

I could have written this myselve ! I totally understand what you mean. Sadly all I can say is except Darkfall we will not see such a game in the near future etc. ! I msyselve have given up waiting for this endlessly and I am already in the process to just trying the best out of the games which have at least an environment I like and are not too restricted. My current and most anticipated MMORPG will be for sure Perfect World, just because its well made and has nice concepts, even if you will not get the freedom of UO again... However I guess you just have to accept the fact that there will be no UO2 too soon and thus make some compromises !

Kind regards,

LD

lomiller

Your search will be for naught I’m afraid.  

 

Complete freedom is an illusion in both games and life.  It’s actually an oxymoron because it implies you have the freedom to impose your will on others, which of course restricts that other person’s freedom.  

 

In addition, in both games and life some things work others do not and if you want to be successful you need to stick to the things that work. If you are highly masochistic and willing to endure the consequences of constant failure then yes you can have a lot of freedom to choose courses that will not work well, but not many people fall into this category.

 

Early UO functioned because it was pretty much the only game in town.  Everyone who wanted to play an MMO had to play it because it was there were no other legitimate options.  This meant you could give some people the “complete freedom” they pine for because there was a captive audience there to be on the receiving end of that “freedom”.

 

You could have a game with the same rule set today, but without that captive audience you would end up with a small bitter little game that couldn’t keep very many people happy. Everyone that remained would have the same basic mindset to have any chance at gaining the freedom to impose your will on others you would need to stick to very stick builds and play styles because anyone who preferred activities other then PvP would be off playing some other game.  

 

Because all the remaining people are essentially doing the same thing there is no variety and people who could enjoy success and freedom in early UO would instead find themselves on the receiving end of other peoples freedom.  Unless they were masochistic they would then leave as well, creating a new bottom class.  This would continue until there were simply not enough people left for the game to survive.  

paulscott

wurmonline, though if come just to bash a few heads no community will take you in.

zethcarn

if Darkfall is ever released it might be what you want.

Hexxeity

PvP is the hardest thing to get right, and there are so many differing opinions of what is "right," I am not surprised that very few developers are willing to tackle it seriously.

blaam

Originally posted by odysseas70


Hi all,
I read MMORPG for years, is where I'm coming to get info and an idea of future mmorpg's or current ones, when it comes to trying another online game. I don't post here, but the time has come for me to do it too I guess.
I just want to get it out of my system like the rest I guess, so here it comes:
I have played Ultima Online for years (my first and only love till blah Trammel), then numerous other games through the years (been playing online games for 15 years) for a few months each, hoping for a UO 2 without trammel actually, but non of them did it for me. Games such as: Anarchy Online, Project Entropia, Guildwards, Roma Victor (for a few hours till I ran outta there), DaoC, Auto-Assalt (was fun for 2 weeks), WWII online, Lineage II, Eve Online, Voyage Century (not my cap of tea when you can buy with r/l money uber items in pvp, intsa heal pots etc), and others I may have missed.

Currently playing Dreamlords, not my cap of tea either but there's really nothing out there for me now

I'm looking for a game like Ultima Online pre-Trammel and pre-uber-items-hunting, a game with a free world, an open environment, where skill matters, where there are good and bad and innocent. Where the innocent try to do their work knowing the risk-reward factor, the bad guys trying to steal their hard work or PK them facing the consequences and the good guys trying to kill the bad guys, protecting the innocent....lol - Looking for a game where as I said skill matters and not who gots the uber-l33t items when it comes to PvP. Where the devs don't lead us to spend all our lives hunting for those uber items. Where I don't have to put up with 30 other mindless, geak, freak, crazy, idiotic (you name it) guys, so that I can at last kill that raid boss in hope of one item out in a 200 chance. Where we just play to enjoy the game, or as I call it our "daily gaming fun".
As you guess, I'm looking for a FFA pvp game, or else an "open" pvp game. Where there is PKing but with consequences. But not a consensual pvp designed game where they just release a pvp server. You see, in such cases, there are "no innocent". No guys that want to be crafters or resource gatherers and know that in order to collect those rare resources they must risk, or else they can stay in safety collecting the more traditional type of resources, etcetc. Anyway, without the innocent, "FFA" pvp games are nothing but a substitute, where 10 known guys hunt down 10 known others, in a server of low pop or something, till they all get bored to tears and move on. Not my cap of tea.
DaoC had a nice pvp system, but not a free/open pvp environment
Lineage II was a close one when it comes to free/open pvp environment etc, BUT, uber-l33t items were a devistating factor in pvp and it was not the skill but whoever spent the most r/l money to buy those items. I really regret spending thousands of hours lvling a char there just to reach the "end-game" and see this. All my "hard work" was wasted, and I left wanting to puke for my wasted time. I left that game telling to myself  "Never again" (will I play a game that uber-l33t items determine pvp outcome, all the more so a game where ppl spend r/l money to acquire such items).
So anyway, I know some of you will tell me, wait for Darkfall (don't even dare suggest Warhammer or AoC...they're not open pvp games but more like DAOC, with a consensual pvp zone of shorts, ie you can't pvp the one stealing your loot where you hunt).
Anyway, I do NOT want to wait for Darkfall guys, geeezz.....That's MONTHS ahead, if ever.
Not only that, I have already waited for YEARS for such a game, after Ultima Online.
So anyway, yeah, I'm frustrated, I'm....whatever....I just had to take it off my chest....it's been......too......freaking.......long......
 
 

i could have wrote that myself too, but i m affraid we'll have to wait for our  mmorpg dream  to come.



currently  AION:tower of eternity is very promising althought it wont be open pvp for all i m affraid ( still should be more intersting than DAOC) but i beleive that game will be a major one.



as for pvp for all .. my friend blyzzard changed the MMO world in lot of good ways... it also have its flaws and that one of its biggests ...dev's will be affraid to creat such a game with consequences and the only one i can think off  is lineage3 but it VERY FAR away 





just look at every mmo about to be released ... for most of them its either PVE (i include lotr on the pve one) or instancied pvp

roamie

I would give Guildwars another try. It will be free since you already have the account and it has great PVP Component. It is Skill based and integrated. Although it is not as spectacular as WoW PvP is..

blaam

Originally posted by roamie


I would give Guildwars another try. It will be free since you already have the account and it has great PVP Component. It is Skill based and integrated. Although it is not as spectacular as WoW PvP is..

Is it ? damn i must have missed the spectacular part of it !

too many things to take into considerations in GW to really appreciate its pvp...  pvp ther is more like CS .. you do it with your TEAM to fully enjoy it   plus its not a mmorpg

joekak

SWGEmu.

Aelfinn

I'd like to make a slight correction here.



"they're not open pvp games but more like DAOC, with a consensual pvp zone of shorts, ie you can't pvp the one stealing your loot where you hunt"



If thats the only reason AoC is off your list, you should know that on a PvP server PvP combat will not be restricted to certain zones. You most certainly will be quite able to kick the ass of that loot theif, assuming he doesn't kick yours. The only limit to this is respawn points, so that there is no chain killing.

raxqorz

perfect world online

 

Kyleran

Originally posted by odysseas70




As you guess, I'm looking for a FFA pvp game, or else an "open" pvp game. Where there is PKing but with consequences. But not a consensual pvp designed game where they just release a pvp server. You see, in such cases, there are "no innocent". No guys that want to be crafters or resource gatherers and know that in order to collect those rare resources they must risk, or else they can stay in safety collecting the more traditional type of resources, etcetc. Anyway, without the innocent, "FFA" pvp games are nothing but a substitute, where 10 known guys hunt down 10 known others, in a server of low pop or something, till they all get bored to tears and move on. Not my cap of tea. 

This part of your missive puzzles me.   Vanguard FFA Pvp servers are wide open.  People can gank absolutely anyone, and punish them by taking a percentage of their cash off of them.  And yet, there are people trying to craft..... crafters get ganked all the time, sometimes losing big loot if they don't manage to reach a bank in a timely manner.  People gather resources and "risk" getting smacked down while doing so.

The servers appear to be pretty full, when I was playing I think I saw the Euro Pvp server as full on several occasions.

It seems to me that VG FFA PVP server pretty much fits the description you are asking for, as much as any game will unless Darkfall ever releases. (but it still may suffer from issues with people buying gold and what not)

There won't be another UO.  Ever, Period, Forget it.  The innocents you are looking for (to gank, I'm sure) have let developers know they don't want to be victims, so Dev's have responded by making games/servers safe for them.  The only people who will be drawn to a FFA PVP game/server are those who thrill to the kill.

joereed1

I think if the game mechanics were done well you could have open PVP servers which almost all types of players would enjoy playing on. The problem is halfassed mechanics like the honour system in WOW, which basicly encourages gankers. Vanguard is a little better in that you have to be closer to the enemies level to get honour (or whatever they call it), but it's basicly the same with limited loot thrown in.

If you had a well executed dishonour system as well, with consequences for being dishonoured, then it would discourage ganking and encourage fun PVP play. I'm sure it must be tough to do or someone would have done it by now, and as a non-PVPer who enjoys the unpredictability of a PVP world I keep my fingers crossed that one of the developers manages it.

odysseas70

 

Originally posted by Aelfinn

I'd like to make a slight correction here.



"they're not open pvp games but more like DAOC, with a consensual pvp zone of shorts, ie you can't pvp the one stealing your loot where you hunt"



If thats the only reason AoC is off your list, you should know that on a PvP server PvP combat will not be restricted to certain zones. You most certainly will be quite able to kick the ass of that loot theif, assuming he doesn't kick yours. The only limit to this is respawn points, so that there is no chain killing.

I said that games that are not meant to be open pvp games by design, one server common/for all lets say, when they release a pvp server, it's just  "us and us" (low pop'ed), cuz the majority plays in the other servers. I don't want that.

 

Yanen

Originally posted by LordDevil


I could have written this myselve ! I totally understand what you mean. Sadly all I can say is except Darkfall we will not see such a game in the near future etc. ! I msyselve have given up waiting for this endlessly and I am already in the process to just trying the best out of the games which have at least an environment I like and are not too restricted. My current and most anticipated MMORPG will be for sure Perfect World, just because its well made and has nice concepts, even if you will not get the freedom of UO again... However I guess you just have to accept the fact that there will be no UO2 too soon and thus make some compromises !
Kind regards,

LD

I saw your post about Perfect World and it sounds like it might be hot shit.  I also went to the Perfect World wiki site and took a look at some of the features.  Do you know any more specific details about PVP?  Is there gonna be a FFA server with coin and 1 item (+ more for reds) drops like the other azn mmos?  How does the PVP work on the regular servers, if there aren't any PVP-specific ones?

odysseas70

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by odysseas70


 

As you guess, I'm looking for a FFA pvp game, or else an "open" pvp game. Where there is PKing but with consequences. But not a consensual pvp designed game where they just release a pvp server. You see, in such cases, there are "no innocent". No guys that want to be crafters or resource gatherers and know that in order to collect those rare resources they must risk, or else they can stay in safety collecting the more traditional type of resources, etcetc. Anyway, without the innocent, "FFA" pvp games are nothing but a substitute, where 10 known guys hunt down 10 known others, in a server of low pop or something, till they all get bored to tears and move on. Not my cap of tea. 
 

This part of your missive puzzles me.   Vanguard FFA Pvp servers are wide open.  People can gank absolutely anyone, and punish them by taking a percentage of their cash off of them.  And yet, there are people trying to craft..... crafters get ganked all the time, sometimes losing big loot if they don't manage to reach a bank in a timely manner.  People gather resources and "risk" getting smacked down while doing so.

The servers appear to be pretty full, when I was playing I think I saw the Euro Pvp server as full on several occasions.

It seems to me that VG FFA PVP server pretty much fits the description you are asking for, as much as any game will unless Darkfall ever releases. (but it still may suffer from issues with people buying gold and what not)

There won't be another UO.  Ever, Period, Forget it.  The innocents you are looking for (to gank, I'm sure) have let developers know they don't want to be victims, so Dev's have responded by making games/servers safe for them.  The only people who will be drawn to a FFA PVP game/server are those who thrill to the kill.

I trust the 50% of the people here that say VG is buggy and etc. I will not touch this game.

PS: I'm not a PKer. I'm a PK hunter, I'm the one who's going after the bad guys

 

odysseas70

In general, I have spoken about games that are not meant to be open pvp but they do something pvp-wise at the end or they release a FFA pvp server.

Besides my one obvious concern that the majority of the times these servers are low pop'd cuz most of the players are playing on the other servers, it's also like taking a small light car and putting a 3000cc turbo engine on it. It will run fast, but something's not right, cuz it was not meant to be for this.

Besides, take it from principles. The designers of the game made it for pve, they didn't want or think that pvp was a necessary part of the game ("necessary", wouldn't it rather be "just" a part of the game, so that the game is "whole"?), they aimed to please the ones who have been "crying" for years of how bad the pvp is etc and did not care about the ones who say that pvp is a part of a game etcetc. The designers that made pvp die for 10 years after Ultima Online, making us live in a hell, in agony and anticipation, with no joy whatsoever, aimlessly killing mobs 1 after the other....... Well, I refuse to play "pvp" (in a pvp server) of such a game, from such designers. Let them keep their "happy" game, a multi-pve of shorts. I will rather give my money to the other designers, the ones with same ideas like me.

odysseas70

Originally posted by lomiller


Your search will be for naught I’m afraid.  
 
Complete freedom is an illusion in both games and life.  It’s actually an oxymoron because it implies you have the freedom to impose your will on others, which of course restricts that other person’s freedom.  
 
In addition, in both games and life some things work others do not and if you want to be successful you need to stick to the things that work. If you are highly masochistic and willing to endure the consequences of constant failure then yes you can have a lot of freedom to choose courses that will not work well, but not many people fall into this category.
 
Early UO functioned because it was pretty much the only game in town.  Everyone who wanted to play an MMO had to play it because it was there were no other legitimate options.  This meant you could give some people the “complete freedom” they pine for because there was a captive audience there to be on the receiving end of that “freedom”.
 
You could have a game with the same rule set today, but without that captive audience you would end up with a small bitter little game that couldn’t keep very many people happy. Everyone that remained would have the same basic mindset to have any chance at gaining the freedom to impose your will on others you would need to stick to very stick builds and play styles because anyone who preferred activities other then PvP would be off playing some other game.  
 
Because all the remaining people are essentially doing the same thing there is no variety and people who could enjoy success and freedom in early UO would instead find themselves on the receiving end of other peoples freedom.  Unless they were masochistic they would then leave as well, creating a new bottom class.  This would continue until there were simply not enough people left for the game to survive.  

I agree to your post mate.

Unfortunately, it's like civilizations and sociates. If you grow up in a country/small sociaty/whatever that say (example only) gays are bad, then you'll think gays are bad and you will not go to places (example, clubs) gays go etc. If you grow up in a country/sociaty that says Christian orthodox is good and muslim is bad, you will not go to places where muslims go etc.

So, the designers that heard only the one side, than the other, did not make an effort to combine both worlds (like pvp with great consequences etc - I'm sure a "solution"/way could be found if they wanted), have made the majority of people playing games now not wanting to pvp, but live (to pve) in a safe world and the new generation of gamers grew up like this. It is maybe too late to "go back" now and try for the golden medium. And ofc, I agree, as you said, if a game was made today with same rule set etc, it would die, for the reasons that you stated and for what I just stated.

 

Sorrow

I am 200% behind LordDevil on this after spending a month going thru more than 30 of the game boxes on the shelf collecting dust, 20 or so reactivated immediately recanceled accounts and about a dozen free trails.. not to mention the 4 betas Im in that all totally suck.

I have recently went thru the trouble to download install and register an account for Perfect World..

The name says it all, its everything and more that I have been looking for.

I can not wait for a english version of this game so I have been dreggin along on the international release depending  very heavily on the new Google Chinese to English Beta translator..  thank you sooooo much Google.

 Anyone interested in joining us follow the instructions at  http://wiki.perfectworld.cc/MainPage.ashx

You may run into alot of issues, took me 5 tries  to get a good account name registered..  finally had to use google translator and enter information in the area they say leave blank before it took..

Not to mention with a 2 gig + download in parts I ran into a few corrupted attempts before I got  two good .rar files.

Anyway anyone who wants to suffer thru its moooooore than worth it, and I would be willing to answer any questions you may have along the way.

 

Aquakitty

Ok, I'll bite... what exactly is so great about it that is worth playing on a non-english version?

paulscott

at least we can still play high quality muds that have open PvP.

Sorrow

Heh god that would be like saying what's so good about life that I should choose to breath.

The game is really incredible and there really isnt anyway to really put the experience in words. You really gotta see it.. They have mastered elevation, both up and down. The underwater combat is incredible and including  inhabited underwater cities.

The skies are amazing, Im sure people are like yea yea flying has been done, but not like this.  People would assume the skys to be a barren area but no its full of life. Flying mobs and ariel combat,  interactive flying npcs and floating sky cities. And when I say sky.. its ENDLESS I tried and didnt find the limit.

Then lets get into stuff like the most incredibly involed and complex crafting system you will ever see.

Tons of fully customizeable skill trees and abilites, endless array of exotic pets, mounts, and flying mounts.. not just creatures but things like giant flaming flying sword your warrior can sky surf on, a silver bullet that looks almost like the silver surfer darting about when I saw an elf all in white armor riding one thru the sky. Not to mention wings.. and wait until you see a fairy winged player omfg.

Really interesting mob AI especially on arial monsters. Varied altitude combat.. attacking from and being able to be attacked from above.

Now lets stir in stuff I havent even explored yet like http://waukeen.blogspot.com/search/label/Perfect%20World

 Oh heh almost fogot mounted combat and partners mounted combat.

Couples are going to love hug/carry its sooooo sexy and romantic.

Some Screenshots

 http://stage6.divx.com/The_Perfect_World_Online/images

and movies

http://stage6.divx.com/The_Perfect_World_Online/videos

 

And trust me they dont do the game justice Im running dual 8800's and the game is gorgeous.

 

 Lol forgot to mention the game theme song and music.. superb outstanding.. rolling on the floor laughing entertainment.

Fry  Wiff  me in an purfac wuld.... fry wiff me...

 

 

Poldano

Originally posted by joereed1


I think if the game mechanics were done well you could have open PVP servers which almost all types of players would enjoy playing on. The problem is halfassed mechanics like the honour system in WOW, which basicly encourages gankers. Vanguard is a little better in that you have to be closer to the enemies level to get honour (or whatever they call it), but it's basicly the same with limited loot thrown in.
If you had a well executed dishonour system as well, with consequences for being dishonoured, then it would discourage ganking and encourage fun PVP play. I'm sure it must be tough to do or someone would have done it by now, and as a non-PVPer who enjoys the unpredictability of a PVP world I keep my fingers crossed that one of the developers manages it.

Seconded!

 

omfgalready

sorry if this seems ignorant but doesnt silkroad online have that sort of good bad nuetral PvP thing?  ive never played but thats what i read... i dunno, maybe give it a try???

Akeys

I am of the same mind as the Original poster. And I agree with lomiller's response.

I was fortunate enough to have played UO within the first few months of its retail release and it was sheer magic.  The best gaming experience I have ever had.  First few weeks of WoW was pretty good (despite the incredible server lag it had when it went retail) but there was no risk /reward when you kill someone or die. No looting. Nothing at stake. No excitement

I also:

1. Have tried many of the free online games - boring grindfests;

2. Want another pre-trammel UO but with top 3D graphics.

3. Am awaiting Darkfall.  I will check out Perfect World.

For PK/corpse looting MMOs to be successful they need:

1. A large player base of merchants, miners etc. This is critical.

2. A rich and deep crafting system to entice the merchants, miners etc

3. The city and banks to be safe for crafters

4. The crafters to leave town to get their materials. If they don't die while out of town they get some monetary bonus or commission.

5. A reason for gold/money to be desirous in the game so a lot of players will work on crafting and trading. Moneysinks like castles, housing, voting in elections, having buildings named after you in the city etc

6.  Siege warfare so no town is ever 100% safe. But it must be difficult to lay siege.

7.  The ability for merchants to hire NPC guards when they go out of town.

8. PvP to be fast and skill based (not gear based)

9. To be skill oriented and not level oriented with a skill cap. Once a player is skillcapped then have a famous/infamous system which grants certain (non-combat) bonuses.