Originally posted by SWGLover And some people wonder why it's so hard to have an debate with any meaning on these forums......
Because, inevitably, someone will pop up in the thread, and say something negative/positive about the game, then the vultures waiting on both sides swoop in, and it devolves into mudslinging, and conspiracy theories.
It's like watching a Presidential debate. They start out talking about the issues, but eventually some group shows up with ads questioning one candidates, or the others, sex life, military record, or whatever.
Fariic: "Most of the time I do it just to be annoying, and I hope that I do a good job of it. "
The very defination of trolling. A fine example of a VG fan, I'm sure you make Brad proud.
And some people wonder why it's so hard to have an debate with any meaning on these forums......
Shoulda waited till there were a few more posts. The cutting of single line in the body of writing could have had more effect for you if my post wasn't directly above it.
Thank you for proving one of the points I've been trying to make.
And when did I say I wasn't a trolling, browsing, trolling. Whatever, same dif. you responded to it didn't you? Thanks for playing with me.
I wish I was on SoE payroll. I preach the Vanguard gospel simply because I think it's a great game and saw all the smak talk going in these forums.
I share my postitive experiences in Vanguard in hopes to counter all the negativity and down right hostility found on these boards.
Now...the nutcases are claiming that everyone fanatical about Vanguard is to be suspect of being on SoE payroll. Thinking it's part of some wierd " Viral Advertising Campagn "...well...I can't speak for anyone else but rest assured. I am not part of such a campaign.
That's retarded ! I would gladly go on their payroll and place as much postitive spin on Vanguard issues as I could...because I like the game.
Instead I do it for free....cause I like the game. I think many others will like the game too.
see, the thing is, players can spot a developer posing to be a player a mile away. I have no idea how but right after SWG's NGE a bunch of devs pretended to be players. Well, the bullshit was so thick all we did was spray em down with a water hose and *BAM** whaddya know... Julio Torres and his henchman was posing as this "OMG I THINK THIS NGE IS LIKE THE MOST FREAKENEST MOST AWESOMEST EVAR!!1!!11!11!!" Viral marketing will do more harm than good. It's coming sense. When you have to pose as a player and say good things about it, that tells your playerbase the desperation is sitting in. Also, it's a form of deception. Deception is never a good mix with developers and forums. Ask Tiggs this. She told them to stop the viral marketing in SWG and voiced her opinion about the NGE. Next day she was fired.
People, I meant word of mouth marketing. E.g. person A buys the game and enjoys it and then convinces his friend, person B to buy it. This is a very powerful form of marketing and it certainly works for me. When I see an ad or a trailer, it may get my attention. If it's really incredible, I may purchase/go see (like, say, the trailer for the movie 300). But in most cases, I wait until I hear from people before I buy a game, see a movie, buy a product, etc. I have friends whom I trust about games, movies, A/V equipment, etc. They are a great resource to ask about something before I buy it.
Ads in magazines and on websites are fine, but only effective to a degree. Message boards are often the home of people who like to rant and get attention, so I usually take them with a grain of salt. Personal friends who have similar tastes to mine are probably my most reliable resource.
This is what I was talking about when I said Viral Marketing. I'm not talking about having employees pose as players -- that would indeed be unethical. It would also likely be discovered and do more harm than good. Lastly, we only have so many employees, and the effect would therefore be negligible.
But having 130,000+ people, or at least the subset of the players who really like the game, tell their friends about the game, especially friends who may not have heard about Vanguard or who did but are skeptical, is very powerful. Early on in EQ 1 (in late beta and early release) we had very little formal marketing (magazine ads, etc.). Most of our initial sales and therefore success came from viral marketing, not from ads or posts on message boards.
Yes but Brad, in regard to your comment about these forums are mostly full of ranters, yep...but those same ranters are the ones that can make or break your game. Depsite this thing called the vocal minority as some like believe, I think it is the opposite. More and more people are online these days...way more then in 1999...way more and these gamers read web sites related to gaming. When they come across a message board about a particular game they have heard about and are curious about and see nothing but negative post this will and does have a negative impact on your game whether you wish to believe. You work with John Smedley, ask him how well the fans of SWG took the NGE. Ask him how the fans that once supported the game went to every game retil outlet on the Internet and elsewhere and on these and forums all over the Internet and pretty much killed any chance for SWG to be even remotely successful. Ask Turbine if they'd done things differently regarding AC2 and it's player base and how they up and revolted and brought that game crashing to the ground by warning other potential players about the game.
See its like this, people rarely talk about good things...just look at the media for a prime example of this. You know the old journalist saying, "If it bleeds it leads". Well the same applies here. The fans of MMORPG's are rabid and some of the most fervent types of gamers. If enough of them are riled up and there are more then enough about Vanguard right now by the way...you stand a good chance of this game becoming another game with empty servers. Go over to the VN boards and read one of the latest post about SWG. What are they discussing? Server merges. Ask yourself why?
Don't discount the players and the power they have. Players can make or break a game and there are many games in the pantheon of bad games that got there because the fans made enough of a stink about it it was dead before it was given an honest chance. Are you willing to take that chance that the "vocal minority" isn't capable of taking down your game. I sure wouldn't take it.
Well, the general problem with viral marketing, at least in my opinion, is the fact that it's usually ridiculously obvious.
I mean, looking at Vanguard, it's VERY EASY to see who's an objective player, who's a "Vanboi", who's a "hater", and generally, it's not hard to tell where people stand on this game. However, when you see people coming in here talking about how this game has no problems, how it runs perfectly in every area, at any given time of the day, regardless of how many people there are, etc etc, it just becomes pretty obvious that they're lying. I think just about everyone's evened out on this board; I don't see half as many blind haters as I did last month, and I see a significantly reduced amount of rampant fanboi's roaming the boards as well. There's still a few people who attest to never having a problem of any kind, ever, but they stick out like sore thumbs.
The other thing about viral marketing is that, unless the people advertising it are very careful with their words (and they're not in many cases) it has a negative effect. For every person who blindly praises a game, there's another guy who's happy to bash it into oblivion.
The point I'm poorly trying to make is that if the game is good enough on it's own, it won't need paid endorsers to browse boards and spread falsities on the forums. The worse the game, the more the developer has to compensate for it. Catch my drift?
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
see, the thing is, players can spot a developer posing to be a player a mile away. I have no idea how but right after SWG's NGE a bunch of devs pretended to be players. Well, the bullshit was so thick all we did was spray em down with a water hose and *BAM** whaddya know... Julio Torres and his henchman was posing as this "OMG I THINK THIS NGE IS LIKE THE MOST FREAKENEST MOST AWESOMEST EVAR!!1!!11!11!!" Viral marketing will do more harm than good. It's coming sense. When you have to pose as a player and say good things about it, that tells your playerbase the desperation is sitting in. Also, it's a form of deception. Deception is never a good mix with developers and forums. Ask Tiggs this. She told them to stop the viral marketing in SWG and voiced her opinion about the NGE. Next day she was fired.
People, I meant word of mouth marketing. E.g. person A buys the game and enjoys it and then convinces his friend, person B to buy it. This is a very powerful form of marketing and it certainly works for me. When I see an ad or a trailer, it may get my attention. If it's really incredible, I may purchase/go see (like, say, the trailer for the movie 300). But in most cases, I wait until I hear from people before I buy a game, see a movie, buy a product, etc. I have friends whom I trust about games, movies, A/V equipment, etc. They are a great resource to ask about something before I buy it.
Ads in magazines and on websites are fine, but only effective to a degree. Message boards are often the home of people who like to rant and get attention, so I usually take them with a grain of salt. Personal friends who have similar tastes to mine are probably my most reliable resource.
This is what I was talking about when I said Viral Marketing. I'm not talking about having employees pose as players -- that would indeed be unethical. It would also likely be discovered and do more harm than good. Lastly, we only have so many employees, and the effect would therefore be negligible.
But having 130,000+ people, or at least the subset of the players who really like the game, tell their friends about the game, especially friends who may not have heard about Vanguard or who did but are skeptical, is very powerful. Early on in EQ 1 (in late beta and early release) we had very little formal marketing (magazine ads, etc.). Most of our initial sales and therefore success came from viral marketing, not from ads or posts on message boards.
Yes but Brad, in regard to your comment about these forums are mostly full of ranters, yep...but those same ranters are the ones that can make or break your game. Depsite this thing called the vocal minority as some like believe, I think it is the opposite. More and more people are online these days...way more then in 1999...way more and these gamers read web sites related to gaming. When they come across a message board about a particular game they have heard about and are curious about and see nothing but negative post this will and does have a negative impact on your game whether you wish to believe. You work with John Smedley, ask him how well the fans of SWG took the NGE. Ask him how the fans that once supported the game went to every game retil outlet on the Internet and elsewhere and on these and forums all over the Internet and pretty much killed any chance for SWG to be even remotely successful. Ask Turbine if they'd done things differently regarding AC2 and it's player base and how they up and revolted and brought that game crashing to the ground by warning other potential players about the game.
See its like this, people rarely talk about good things...just look at the media for a prime example of this. You know the old journalist saying, "If it bleeds it leads". Well the same applies here. The fans of MMORPG's are rabid and some of the most fervent types of gamers. If enough of them are riled up and there are more then enough about Vanguard right now by the way...you stand a good chance of this game becoming another game with empty servers. Go over to the VN boards and read one of the latest post about SWG. What are they discussing? Server merges. Ask yourself why?
Don't discount the players and the power they have. Players can make or break a game and there are many games in the pantheon of bad games that got there because the fans made enough of a stink about it it was dead before it was given an honest chance. Are you willing to take that chance that the "vocal minority" isn't capable of taking down your game. I sure wouldn't take it.
Here's the problem with your theory , For every post the vocal haters make . There is a more reasoned retort to be found . The same could be said for any rabid flamebait posted by supporters of the game . The true market lies in the middle ground , that's the point you seem to be totally forgetting . Most players are neutral , they neither side with the hate filled complaints or the overzealous follow up a fanboi may provide . Does a person who visits a forum for the sole purpose of information , Take the time to post ? Or do they simply look at both sides of an argument and make up their mind from information provided ?
A poster who has been labeled as either a fanboi or hater , Is considered so because they post with a specific agenda . That agenda is of no interest to someone who may be only here seeking actual gameplay information , Or how a certain aspect of the game works . You are giving the posters constantly trolling here far to much credit . A majority of the MMO market dosen't even visit forums related to games they play .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
see, the thing is, players can spot a developer posing to be a player a mile away. I have no idea how but right after SWG's NGE a bunch of devs pretended to be players. Well, the bullshit was so thick all we did was spray em down with a water hose and *BAM** whaddya know... Julio Torres and his henchman was posing as this "OMG I THINK THIS NGE IS LIKE THE MOST FREAKENEST MOST AWESOMEST EVAR!!1!!11!11!!" Viral marketing will do more harm than good. It's coming sense. When you have to pose as a player and say good things about it, that tells your playerbase the desperation is sitting in. Also, it's a form of deception. Deception is never a good mix with developers and forums. Ask Tiggs this. She told them to stop the viral marketing in SWG and voiced her opinion about the NGE. Next day she was fired.
People, I meant word of mouth marketing. E.g. person A buys the game and enjoys it and then convinces his friend, person B to buy it. This is a very powerful form of marketing and it certainly works for me. When I see an ad or a trailer, it may get my attention. If it's really incredible, I may purchase/go see (like, say, the trailer for the movie 300). But in most cases, I wait until I hear from people before I buy a game, see a movie, buy a product, etc. I have friends whom I trust about games, movies, A/V equipment, etc. They are a great resource to ask about something before I buy it.
Ads in magazines and on websites are fine, but only effective to a degree. Message boards are often the home of people who like to rant and get attention, so I usually take them with a grain of salt. Personal friends who have similar tastes to mine are probably my most reliable resource.
This is what I was talking about when I said Viral Marketing. I'm not talking about having employees pose as players -- that would indeed be unethical. It would also likely be discovered and do more harm than good. Lastly, we only have so many employees, and the effect would therefore be negligible.
But having 130,000+ people, or at least the subset of the players who really like the game, tell their friends about the game, especially friends who may not have heard about Vanguard or who did but are skeptical, is very powerful. Early on in EQ 1 (in late beta and early release) we had very little formal marketing (magazine ads, etc.). Most of our initial sales and therefore success came from viral marketing, not from ads or posts on message boards.
Yes but Brad, in regard to your comment about these forums are mostly full of ranters, yep...but those same ranters are the ones that can make or break your game. Depsite this thing called the vocal minority as some like believe, I think it is the opposite. More and more people are online these days...way more then in 1999...way more and these gamers read web sites related to gaming. When they come across a message board about a particular game they have heard about and are curious about and see nothing but negative post this will and does have a negative impact on your game whether you wish to believe. You work with John Smedley, ask him how well the fans of SWG took the NGE. Ask him how the fans that once supported the game went to every game retil outlet on the Internet and elsewhere and on these and forums all over the Internet and pretty much killed any chance for SWG to be even remotely successful. Ask Turbine if they'd done things differently regarding AC2 and it's player base and how they up and revolted and brought that game crashing to the ground by warning other potential players about the game.
See its like this, people rarely talk about good things...just look at the media for a prime example of this. You know the old journalist saying, "If it bleeds it leads". Well the same applies here. The fans of MMORPG's are rabid and some of the most fervent types of gamers. If enough of them are riled up and there are more then enough about Vanguard right now by the way...you stand a good chance of this game becoming another game with empty servers. Go over to the VN boards and read one of the latest post about SWG. What are they discussing? Server merges. Ask yourself why?
Don't discount the players and the power they have. Players can make or break a game and there are many games in the pantheon of bad games that got there because the fans made enough of a stink about it it was dead before it was given an honest chance. Are you willing to take that chance that the "vocal minority" isn't capable of taking down your game. I sure wouldn't take it.
Here's the problem with your theory , For every post the vocal haters make . There is a more reasoned retort to be found . The same could be said for any rabid flamebait posted by supporters of the game . The true market lies in the middle ground , that's the point you seem to be totally forgetting . Most players are neutral , they neither side with the hate filled complaints or the overzealous follow up a fanboi may provide . Does a person who visits a forum for the sole purpose of information , Take the time to post ? Or do they simply look at both sides of an argument and make up their mind from information provided ?
A poster who has been labeled as either a fanboi or hater , Is considered so because they post with a specific agenda . That agenda is of no interest to someone who may be only here seeking actual gameplay information , Or how a certain aspect of the game works . You are giving the posters constantly trolling here far to much credit . A majority of the MMO market dosen't even visit forums related to games they play .
Been here and debated this. So to save us both a lot of time....we'll agree to disagree. Anyone have a Midol...I could use one right about now.
Well, the general problem with viral marketing, at least in my opinion, is the fact that it's usually ridiculously obvious.
I mean, looking at Vanguard, it's VERY EASY to see who's an objective player, who's a "Vanboi", who's a "hater", and generally, it's not hard to tell where people stand on this game. However, when you see people coming in here talking about how this game has no problems, how it runs perfectly in every area, at any given time of the day, regardless of how many people there are, etc etc, it just becomes pretty obvious that they're lying. I think just about everyone's evened out on this board; I don't see half as many blind haters as I did last month, and I see a significantly reduced amount of rampant fanboi's roaming the boards as well. There's still a few people who attest to never having a problem of any kind, ever, but they stick out like sore thumbs.
The other thing about viral marketing is that, unless the people advertising it are very careful with their words (and they're not in many cases) it has a negative effect. For every person who blindly praises a game, there's another guy who's happy to bash it into oblivion.
The point I'm poorly trying to make is that if the game is good enough on it's own, it won't need paid endorsers to browse boards and spread falsities on the forums. The worse the game, the more the developer has to compensate for it. Catch my drift?
That's a pretty low blow man. Won't need paid endorsers to browse boards and spread falsities?
I said it before. It doesn't matter what anyone at Sigil says, not even the man in charge himself, there will be those that will interprut what is crlearly written in print, twist it, then shove it back at anyone that happens to read what they wrote.
Are you implying that Sigil has paid endorsers in the form of reps that reach out to forums to maintane, or attempt to maintane, a relationship with thier cosumer base? The catch my drift part makes what you imply clear. Aren't they supposed to be doing this concidering they don't have an official forum themself? If the reps were posting that the game sucked and agreed with the people that don't like VG would that be better? Would it please more people and bring back those that the game didn't agree with?
Nothing on this site as balanced out. If anything it's getting worse. You can't even start a thread accually discussing the game with other players without someone coming in and derailing it. To the point that people are posting links to the BBB and others start "open letters" for the sole intent of pretending that that is the only way you can get the attention of the reps at Sigil, when in truth thier just fullfiling thier need to be at the center of attention and deluted to think that they achieved something cause someone from Sigil postedin a DIFFERENT thread. You can't even accuse the "vanbois" of being the bigger part of the problem. Look the the posts at the top here. A lot of the people that accually support the game have given up even posting here. Someone will turn that around to say that they've stopped supporting, that they've come to thier sences and seen what kind of crap the game is. You can look at past threads and see who some of the people that liked to post here about it; some of the old attempts at accually discussing the game and see how the mood has been every so slowing shifting in the favor of those that don't like VG as those that do move away to other boards were they can have a discussion about the game they like.
The only thing this forum proves is what can happen when you let a bunch of people with oposite views run rampant. This particullar board has become nothing but an outlet for the same people who felt let down, and disapointed because something they baught didn't turn out to be what they "expected" it to be. And anyone that has a difference of opinion is concidered a rabid "vanboi" for posting thier feelings on a forum forum dedicated to the game they like.
Maybe I'm confused. Maybe her at MMORPG.com the forums are set up dif. Maybe they're not for the fans but an outlet for people to bash whatever game they like, were staff writers encourage the behavior by posting thier own brand of gross overexageration and falsities. Or maybe the intent is to disgust the people that enjoy them game enough that they simply leave and go to another site.
Make no mistakes man, the same thing you say can go for this site as well. Someones making money off ads, from games. And if players and game devs. alike get the impression that the employees of this site can't take a moral, and ethical approach to the things they say in regard to any particiallar game. It's one thing to state your opinion; it's another to make implications that a company would participate in unethical business practice as you so elequently imply with your post.
It may be your opinion and you can say so all you want in a disclaimer, but in the end when people read your posts and see your name with staff writer under it, it could give them an uneasy feeling about how this site operates,and the things it's employees are allowed to say about a game. And developers might just look at it the same way.
Mcquaid clearly stated what the aim was for spreading awareness of the game; he then had to come to this site and clarify himself becuase people took it and twisted it into some issue that it never was. Why is it so hard to just accept what the guy was saying for what it is? They want people that like the game to tell thier friends. Since when did this become a bad thing to do? Why do people on this site think that that viral marketing is only acceptable when you're informing others that you disliked something?
Your actions represent the company you work for and no amount of disclaimers can change that. When it's all said and done it still says STAFF writer under your name, and I cringe that you are allowed to make such dirogitory, insinuating posts here.
Edit: I can't cotroll some of the spelling and gramatical errors. The right hand doesn't respond correctly any more, and it hurts to much to go back and fix. I do my best to catch them while I'm writing.
Well, the general problem with viral marketing, at least in my opinion, is the fact that it's usually ridiculously obvious.
I mean, looking at Vanguard, it's VERY EASY to see who's an objective player, who's a "Vanboi", who's a "hater", and generally, it's not hard to tell where people stand on this game. However, when you see people coming in here talking about how this game has no problems, how it runs perfectly in every area, at any given time of the day, regardless of how many people there are, etc etc, it just becomes pretty obvious that they're lying. I think just about everyone's evened out on this board; I don't see half as many blind haters as I did last month, and I see a significantly reduced amount of rampant fanboi's roaming the boards as well. There's still a few people who attest to never having a problem of any kind, ever, but they stick out like sore thumbs.
The other thing about viral marketing is that, unless the people advertising it are very careful with their words (and they're not in many cases) it has a negative effect. For every person who blindly praises a game, there's another guy who's happy to bash it into oblivion.
The point I'm poorly trying to make is that if the game is good enough on it's own, it won't need paid endorsers to browse boards and spread falsities on the forums. The worse the game, the more the developer has to compensate for it. Catch my drift?
That's a pretty low blow man. Won't need paid endorsers to browse boards and spread falsities?
I said it before. It doesn't matter what anyone at Sigil says, not even the man in charge himself, there will be those that will interprut what is crlearly written in print, twist it, then shove it back at anyone that happens to read what they wrote.
Are you implying that Sigil has paid endorsers in the form of reps that reach out to forums to maintane, or attempt to maintane, a relationship with thier cosumer base? The catch my drift part makes what you imply clear. Aren't they supposed to be doing this concidering they don't have an official forum themself? If the reps were posting that the game sucked and agreed with the people that don't like VG would that be better? Would it please more people and bring back those that the game didn't agree with?
Nothing on this site as balanced out. If anything it's getting worse. You can't even start a thread accually discussing the game with other players without someone coming in and derailing it. To the point that people are posting links to the BBB and others start "open letters" for the sole intent of pretending that that is the only way you can get the attention of the reps at Sigil, when in truth thier just fullfiling thier need to be at the center of attention and deluted to think that they achieved something cause someone from Sigil postedin a DIFFERENT thread. You can't even accuse the "vanbois" of being the bigger part of the problem. Look the the posts at the top here. A lot of the people that accually support the game have given up even posting here. Someone will turn that around to say that they've stopped supporting, that they've come to thier sences and seen what kind of crap the game is. You can look at past threads and see who some of the people that liked to post here about it; some of the old attempts at accually discussing the game and see how the mood has been every so slowing shifting in the favor of those that don't like VG as those that do move away to other boards were they can have a discussion about the game they like.
The only thing this forum proves is what can happen when you let a bunch of people with oposite views run rampant. This particullar board has become nothing but an outlet for the same people who felt let down, and disapointed because something they baught didn't turn out to be what they "expected" it to be. And anyone that has a difference of opinion is concidered a rabid "vanboi" for posting thier feelings on a forum forum dedicated to the game they like.
Maybe I'm confused. Maybe her at MMORPG.com the forums are set up dif. Maybe they're not for the fans but an outlet for people to bash whatever game they like, were staff writers encourage the behavior by posting thier own brand of gross overexageration and falsities. Or maybe the intent is to disgust the people that enjoy them game enough that they simply leave and go to another site.
Make no mistakes man, the same thing you say can go for this site as well. Someones making money off ads, from games. And if players and game devs. alike get the impression that the employees of this site can't take a moral, and ethical approach to the things they say in regard to any particiallar game. It's one thing to state your opinion; it's another to make implications that a company would participate in unethical business practice as you so elequently imply with your post.
It may be your opinion and you can say so all you want in a disclaimer, but in the end when people read your posts and see your name with staff writer under it, it could give them an uneasy feeling about how this site operates,and the things it's employees are allowed to say about a game. And developers might just look at it the same way.
Mcquaid clearly stated what the aim was for spreading awareness of the game; he then had to come to this site and clarify himself becuase people took it and twisted it into some issue that it never was. Why is it so hard to just accept what the guy was saying for what it is? They want people that like the game to tell thier friends. Since when did this become a bad thing to do? Why do people on this site think that that viral marketing is only acceptable when you're informing others that you disliked something?
Your actions represent the company you work for and no amount of disclaimers can change that. When it's all said and done it still says STAFF writer under your name, and I cringe that you are allowed to make such dirogitory, insinuating posts here.
Edit: I can't cotroll some of the spelling and gramatical errors. The right hand doesn't respond correctly any more, and it hurts to much to go back and fix. I do my best to catch them while I'm writing.
Wow...you have a lot of anger in you. Do you need a Midol too? I need it for another reason, but I'm sure it'll work on what ever is ailing you. Oh and your statement about Viral Marketing is not only acceptable when you're informing others you dislike something. However, as I have said many times, it works both ways. There are people that will say a product is bad and those that say it is good. You get enough people saying something is bad and no amount of those saying it is good is going to save that product - in most cases.
Oh and thanks for the jab. I wrote that piece the way I did to get above the level of noise in forums such as this. It worked. It got peoples attention and they posted to it keeping it on the front page. People are actually pretty predictable - especially in this and other forums like Silky Venom. Say stuff in a certain way and you're going to garnar attention. What can I say...I've been around a few forums in my time and I know how to make them work.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. You make a post that has a differnce of opinion and view and some knuckle head comes back with the one liner, "man you have a lot of hate in you" The comment about midol was cute. You only rienforce the things I've posted about. Good for you. Edit: And hows your ranger doing?
LMAO! See..you fell for it again Fariic...LMAO! I knew what to say and you responded as I thought you would. So predictable. You're fun. I like you Fariic...whether you believe that or not.
The game is good and worth praise. Do I think it's perfect? no, nothing is. But it is a lot of fun. They have the normal amount of bugs that all games have. They deal with them pretty quick though. Better then most.
Wish I got paid for saying that but I give it freely.
You two just gave a perfect example of why viral marketing fails (atleast the attempts made on forums) , Though these exchanges are quite amusing at times. Rarely do these exchanges end in any sort of rationalized conversation . They usually become nothing more than ego driven wordplay duels . Arguments usually end up being about how group a: sips soup through a straw on their helmet , Because they may not think dev doe is the overlord of hell .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Teala, if you think that I come across as angry then maybe I do sometimes.
It takes a LOT of effort for me to type, but less then it takes for me to slide a mouse around; wich is why I spend more time here then in game. If I can't play the game I enjoy then well the next best thing for me is talking about it. Unfortunetly for me Sigil doesn't feel the need for official forums, something I disagree with, and I prefer the layout of this site over others available to me. I find it easy to navigate and the setup they use for posting is easy for me to use. This site, in my opinion, makes writing a post enjoyable because of the many options and controll of the body of text it provides.
If I come across angry in a post it's not intentional and may have something to do with the pain I'm in. As it is I can't keep going tonight. I'm going to lay down with my girl and possible sob a little.
If you go back and recheck some of my posts you'll accually find the ones of me admitting to being a miserable person. I have my reasons.
Don't be so arrogant as to believe you know a thing about me that I don't chose to share. What you think of as predictablitly I call conviction. i stand by my beliefs and have never been one to be quite.
And you should work on your writing more, it comes across as to forced and doesn't have that natural feel that helps others relate to the things you saying. It also lacks flare and a sence of individualism. Cymdia (sp?) achieves this in his posts, even if I disagree with them; maybe you should read some of his work here. It might help you.
And that's a shot at the horribly overblow and tedious review you wrote, that just screamed "look at me, I'm typing". Bet you didn't see that coming.
Well Fariic, up until that last reply you had some interesting and relevant things to say on the subject at hand. However, the level of vitriol in your last post far outweighs anything thrown at you, and it was unwarranted.
We all have very serious issues in life, don't ever assume you are the only burdened soul on this board. That is neither a valid reason, nor an excuse for personal attacks.
Teala, if you think that I come across as angry then maybe I do sometimes. It takes a LOT of effort for me to type, but less then it takes for me to slide a mouse around; wich is why I spend more time here then in game. If I can't play the game I enjoy then well the next best thing for me is talking about it. Unfortunetly for me Sigil doesn't feel the need for official forums, something I disagree with, and I prefer the layout of this site over others available to me. I find it easy to navigate and the setup they use for posting is easy for me to use. This site, in my opinion, makes writing a post enjoyable because of the many options and controll of the body of text it provides. If I come across angry in a post it's not intentional and may have something to do with the pain I'm in. As it is I can't keep going tonight. I'm going to lay down with my girl and possible sob a little. If you go back and recheck some of my posts you'll accually find the ones of me admitting to being a miserable person. I have my reasons. Don't be so arrogant as to believe you know a thing about me that I don't chose to share. What you think of as predictablitly I call conviction. i stand by my beliefs and have never been one to be quite. And you should work on your writing more, it comes across as to forced and doesn't have that natural feel that helps others relate to the things you saying. It also lacks flare and a sence of individualism. Cymdia (sp?) achieves this in his posts, even if I disagree with them; maybe you should read some of his work here. It might help you. And that's a shot at the horribly overblow and tedious review you wrote, that just screamed "look at me, I'm typing". Bet you didn't see that coming. Good night.
I really wasn't trying to say that there aren't haters, fanboi's, and everything else running around this forum.
The point I was trying to make was that, regardless of whether you praise or hate a game, righteously or incentive-based, there will always be someone else there who takes pleasure in countering every single point and statement you make.
That's why I feel supporting viral marketing as a primary form of advertisement is inefficient. As I stated earlier, I think that if a game is solid enough, the gameplay, not the people, will promote it.
Sorry if that came out unclear in my previous post.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Brad, thank you for posting on these forums. I would like you to know that it is only respectable. I have also respected your person, your ideal and your experience. I have followed VG closely and passionately for a long while and I am very sorry that the project ended up this way. I really tried to like it, I had high hopes for it. I even got the word to a previous guild of mine and told about it.
Despite all the guesses, only "you" know what went wrong internally and I also understand that you can not publicly admit it. And I still believe that you have a much more realistic evaluation of your own game than the all rosy view of some of the "vanbois" (I am also glad you can use that term, since I get flamed when I use it)
I don't think this is the end. VG for me is sadly history, but I learnt a lot from it. I hope that you and your team will learn from it as well. Learning from mistakes is the path to greatness. I know that your next game will be a masterpiece, because it will have all this treasure of experience engraved into it. I am eagerly looking forward to it!
(I know that you have a way of pinning the threads you write and come back to them sooner or later. The reason for this post).
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
I have a question. I remember when Sony got caught red handed having their employee's right reviews for their products - a clear breach of ethical behavior. Now, at least Brad is up-front about their plan to use "viral marketing" on the internet for advertising and damage control regarding Vanguard. So my question is...... How is anyone ever going to be sure that a positive fanboi type forum post anywhere is not an Vanguard employee typing away as part of their job? It makes every positive statement ( especially those that fly in the face of what most other players are experiencing ) suspect. Just a thought from a consumer.
Viral marketing is word of mouth. Ugh, I've been banned for 3 days reading posts like this. SOOO frustrating lol that someone could think that what Brad McQuaid was saying was they were going to use viruses or some sort of add spam when in the context he was talking it was all too obvious that viral marketing meant word of mouth, even if you didn't know what it meant before reading the post.
My post is just as valid as anyone else who says anything else about anything on the internet.
Actually, there seems to be confusion on both sides as to what "viral marketing" means.
Word of Mouth is often a tool used by viral marketing, but it is not viral marketing in and of itself. People playing the game and saying they liked it is merely word of mouth. An opinion. A review.
Word of Mouth only becomes a form of viral marketing IF it is instigated in some way by the company. This can be done several ways. Having company employees pretend to be average gamers. Posting information somewhere on the web and getting the general populace to spread the word of their own free will. That's viral marketing.
A gamer saying, "I've played since beta and I love this game," is not some slick form of advertizing. If that truly is what Brad is referring to as "viral advertizing," maybe he should stop using the term, as it only seems to be casting suspicion on his practices.
Seriously. It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
I work on internet product that uses viral marketing , naturally i am not free to disclose what this product is - but i will tell you that we reached 12 million users world wide.
Did we used fake forum posters. Yes
Actually we have a guy hired as a fake poster.
It is his 9 hours day job to go around forums and posts under many diferent usernames...
Some people acuse me for being tinfoil hat, out to save internet fanatic and whatever.
But it is only because i know how it works from the inside
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
I do not doubt there are companies that do that. But to assume that every positive post about a product is done in that way is just stupid.
I have no affilation with Sigil in any way other than I pay for a Vanguard account. Yet I post many positive comments about Vanguard but only because I like the game and feel the hater boys do it a massive diservice with their exagerated claims. Noone directs me to do this.
I do not doubt there are companies that do that. But to assume that every positive post about a product is done in that way is just stupid. I have no affilation with Sigil in any way other than I pay for a Vanguard account. Yet I post many positive comments about Vanguard but only because I like the game and feel the hater boys do it a massive diservice with their exagerated claims. Noone directs me to do this.
Grim, calm down mate. I don't think you have anything to worry... yet. Enigma said it right, it is quite easy to spot fake viral posters. Their style is much more blatant and overt. But they carefully try to avoid the naivete peculiar to genuine Vanbois. We might have only a handful in these forums if any. And if you scratch off multiple accounts, maybe only one. Really not that important to dwell on.
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
Comments
Because, inevitably, someone will pop up in the thread, and say something negative/positive about the game, then the vultures waiting on both sides swoop in, and it devolves into mudslinging, and conspiracy theories.
It's like watching a Presidential debate. They start out talking about the issues, but eventually some group shows up with ads questioning one candidates, or the others, sex life, military record, or whatever.
It's human nature, or something.
Shoulda waited till there were a few more posts. The cutting of single line in the body of writing could have had more effect for you if my post wasn't directly above it.
Thank you for proving one of the points I've been trying to make.
And when did I say I wasn't a trolling, browsing, trolling. Whatever, same dif. you responded to it didn't you? Thanks for playing with me.
Didn't want to elaborate on anything I wrote?
Kettle black and all that.
I wish I was on SoE payroll. I preach the Vanguard gospel simply because I think it's a great game and saw all the smak talk going in these forums.
I share my postitive experiences in Vanguard in hopes to counter all the negativity and down right hostility found on these boards.
Now...the nutcases are claiming that everyone fanatical about Vanguard is to be suspect of being on SoE payroll. Thinking it's part of some wierd " Viral Advertising Campagn "...well...I can't speak for anyone else but rest assured. I am not part of such a campaign.
That's retarded ! I would gladly go on their payroll and place as much postitive spin on Vanguard issues as I could...because I like the game.
Instead I do it for free....cause I like the game. I think many others will like the game too.
you know...for the record
Stop doing it for free, hold out for free monthly service at least. Didn't you learn anything in school?
People, I meant word of mouth marketing. E.g. person A buys the game and enjoys it and then convinces his friend, person B to buy it. This is a very powerful form of marketing and it certainly works for me. When I see an ad or a trailer, it may get my attention. If it's really incredible, I may purchase/go see (like, say, the trailer for the movie 300). But in most cases, I wait until I hear from people before I buy a game, see a movie, buy a product, etc. I have friends whom I trust about games, movies, A/V equipment, etc. They are a great resource to ask about something before I buy it.
Ads in magazines and on websites are fine, but only effective to a degree. Message boards are often the home of people who like to rant and get attention, so I usually take them with a grain of salt. Personal friends who have similar tastes to mine are probably my most reliable resource.
This is what I was talking about when I said Viral Marketing. I'm not talking about having employees pose as players -- that would indeed be unethical. It would also likely be discovered and do more harm than good. Lastly, we only have so many employees, and the effect would therefore be negligible.
But having 130,000+ people, or at least the subset of the players who really like the game, tell their friends about the game, especially friends who may not have heard about Vanguard or who did but are skeptical, is very powerful. Early on in EQ 1 (in late beta and early release) we had very little formal marketing (magazine ads, etc.). Most of our initial sales and therefore success came from viral marketing, not from ads or posts on message boards.
Yes but Brad, in regard to your comment about these forums are mostly full of ranters, yep...but those same ranters are the ones that can make or break your game. Depsite this thing called the vocal minority as some like believe, I think it is the opposite. More and more people are online these days...way more then in 1999...way more and these gamers read web sites related to gaming. When they come across a message board about a particular game they have heard about and are curious about and see nothing but negative post this will and does have a negative impact on your game whether you wish to believe. You work with John Smedley, ask him how well the fans of SWG took the NGE. Ask him how the fans that once supported the game went to every game retil outlet on the Internet and elsewhere and on these and forums all over the Internet and pretty much killed any chance for SWG to be even remotely successful. Ask Turbine if they'd done things differently regarding AC2 and it's player base and how they up and revolted and brought that game crashing to the ground by warning other potential players about the game.
See its like this, people rarely talk about good things...just look at the media for a prime example of this. You know the old journalist saying, "If it bleeds it leads". Well the same applies here. The fans of MMORPG's are rabid and some of the most fervent types of gamers. If enough of them are riled up and there are more then enough about Vanguard right now by the way...you stand a good chance of this game becoming another game with empty servers. Go over to the VN boards and read one of the latest post about SWG. What are they discussing? Server merges. Ask yourself why?
Don't discount the players and the power they have. Players can make or break a game and there are many games in the pantheon of bad games that got there because the fans made enough of a stink about it it was dead before it was given an honest chance. Are you willing to take that chance that the "vocal minority" isn't capable of taking down your game. I sure wouldn't take it.
I mean, looking at Vanguard, it's VERY EASY to see who's an objective player, who's a "Vanboi", who's a "hater", and generally, it's not hard to tell where people stand on this game. However, when you see people coming in here talking about how this game has no problems, how it runs perfectly in every area, at any given time of the day, regardless of how many people there are, etc etc, it just becomes pretty obvious that they're lying. I think just about everyone's evened out on this board; I don't see half as many blind haters as I did last month, and I see a significantly reduced amount of rampant fanboi's roaming the boards as well. There's still a few people who attest to never having a problem of any kind, ever, but they stick out like sore thumbs.
The other thing about viral marketing is that, unless the people advertising it are very careful with their words (and they're not in many cases) it has a negative effect. For every person who blindly praises a game, there's another guy who's happy to bash it into oblivion.
The point I'm poorly trying to make is that if the game is good enough on it's own, it won't need paid endorsers to browse boards and spread falsities on the forums. The worse the game, the more the developer has to compensate for it. Catch my drift?
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
People, I meant word of mouth marketing. E.g. person A buys the game and enjoys it and then convinces his friend, person B to buy it. This is a very powerful form of marketing and it certainly works for me. When I see an ad or a trailer, it may get my attention. If it's really incredible, I may purchase/go see (like, say, the trailer for the movie 300). But in most cases, I wait until I hear from people before I buy a game, see a movie, buy a product, etc. I have friends whom I trust about games, movies, A/V equipment, etc. They are a great resource to ask about something before I buy it.
Ads in magazines and on websites are fine, but only effective to a degree. Message boards are often the home of people who like to rant and get attention, so I usually take them with a grain of salt. Personal friends who have similar tastes to mine are probably my most reliable resource.
This is what I was talking about when I said Viral Marketing. I'm not talking about having employees pose as players -- that would indeed be unethical. It would also likely be discovered and do more harm than good. Lastly, we only have so many employees, and the effect would therefore be negligible.
But having 130,000+ people, or at least the subset of the players who really like the game, tell their friends about the game, especially friends who may not have heard about Vanguard or who did but are skeptical, is very powerful. Early on in EQ 1 (in late beta and early release) we had very little formal marketing (magazine ads, etc.). Most of our initial sales and therefore success came from viral marketing, not from ads or posts on message boards.
Yes but Brad, in regard to your comment about these forums are mostly full of ranters, yep...but those same ranters are the ones that can make or break your game. Depsite this thing called the vocal minority as some like believe, I think it is the opposite. More and more people are online these days...way more then in 1999...way more and these gamers read web sites related to gaming. When they come across a message board about a particular game they have heard about and are curious about and see nothing but negative post this will and does have a negative impact on your game whether you wish to believe. You work with John Smedley, ask him how well the fans of SWG took the NGE. Ask him how the fans that once supported the game went to every game retil outlet on the Internet and elsewhere and on these and forums all over the Internet and pretty much killed any chance for SWG to be even remotely successful. Ask Turbine if they'd done things differently regarding AC2 and it's player base and how they up and revolted and brought that game crashing to the ground by warning other potential players about the game.
See its like this, people rarely talk about good things...just look at the media for a prime example of this. You know the old journalist saying, "If it bleeds it leads". Well the same applies here. The fans of MMORPG's are rabid and some of the most fervent types of gamers. If enough of them are riled up and there are more then enough about Vanguard right now by the way...you stand a good chance of this game becoming another game with empty servers. Go over to the VN boards and read one of the latest post about SWG. What are they discussing? Server merges. Ask yourself why?
Don't discount the players and the power they have. Players can make or break a game and there are many games in the pantheon of bad games that got there because the fans made enough of a stink about it it was dead before it was given an honest chance. Are you willing to take that chance that the "vocal minority" isn't capable of taking down your game. I sure wouldn't take it.
Here's the problem with your theory , For every post the vocal haters make . There is a more reasoned retort to be found . The same could be said for any rabid flamebait posted by supporters of the game . The true market lies in the middle ground , that's the point you seem to be totally forgetting . Most players are neutral , they neither side with the hate filled complaints or the overzealous follow up a fanboi may provide . Does a person who visits a forum for the sole purpose of information , Take the time to post ? Or do they simply look at both sides of an argument and make up their mind from information provided ?A poster who has been labeled as either a fanboi or hater , Is considered so because they post with a specific agenda . That agenda is of no interest to someone who may be only here seeking actual gameplay information , Or how a certain aspect of the game works . You are giving the posters constantly trolling here far to much credit . A majority of the MMO market dosen't even visit forums related to games they play .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
People, I meant word of mouth marketing. E.g. person A buys the game and enjoys it and then convinces his friend, person B to buy it. This is a very powerful form of marketing and it certainly works for me. When I see an ad or a trailer, it may get my attention. If it's really incredible, I may purchase/go see (like, say, the trailer for the movie 300). But in most cases, I wait until I hear from people before I buy a game, see a movie, buy a product, etc. I have friends whom I trust about games, movies, A/V equipment, etc. They are a great resource to ask about something before I buy it.
Ads in magazines and on websites are fine, but only effective to a degree. Message boards are often the home of people who like to rant and get attention, so I usually take them with a grain of salt. Personal friends who have similar tastes to mine are probably my most reliable resource.
This is what I was talking about when I said Viral Marketing. I'm not talking about having employees pose as players -- that would indeed be unethical. It would also likely be discovered and do more harm than good. Lastly, we only have so many employees, and the effect would therefore be negligible.
But having 130,000+ people, or at least the subset of the players who really like the game, tell their friends about the game, especially friends who may not have heard about Vanguard or who did but are skeptical, is very powerful. Early on in EQ 1 (in late beta and early release) we had very little formal marketing (magazine ads, etc.). Most of our initial sales and therefore success came from viral marketing, not from ads or posts on message boards.
Yes but Brad, in regard to your comment about these forums are mostly full of ranters, yep...but those same ranters are the ones that can make or break your game. Depsite this thing called the vocal minority as some like believe, I think it is the opposite. More and more people are online these days...way more then in 1999...way more and these gamers read web sites related to gaming. When they come across a message board about a particular game they have heard about and are curious about and see nothing but negative post this will and does have a negative impact on your game whether you wish to believe. You work with John Smedley, ask him how well the fans of SWG took the NGE. Ask him how the fans that once supported the game went to every game retil outlet on the Internet and elsewhere and on these and forums all over the Internet and pretty much killed any chance for SWG to be even remotely successful. Ask Turbine if they'd done things differently regarding AC2 and it's player base and how they up and revolted and brought that game crashing to the ground by warning other potential players about the game.
See its like this, people rarely talk about good things...just look at the media for a prime example of this. You know the old journalist saying, "If it bleeds it leads". Well the same applies here. The fans of MMORPG's are rabid and some of the most fervent types of gamers. If enough of them are riled up and there are more then enough about Vanguard right now by the way...you stand a good chance of this game becoming another game with empty servers. Go over to the VN boards and read one of the latest post about SWG. What are they discussing? Server merges. Ask yourself why?
Don't discount the players and the power they have. Players can make or break a game and there are many games in the pantheon of bad games that got there because the fans made enough of a stink about it it was dead before it was given an honest chance. Are you willing to take that chance that the "vocal minority" isn't capable of taking down your game. I sure wouldn't take it.
Here's the problem with your theory , For every post the vocal haters make . There is a more reasoned retort to be found . The same could be said for any rabid flamebait posted by supporters of the game . The true market lies in the middle ground , that's the point you seem to be totally forgetting . Most players are neutral , they neither side with the hate filled complaints or the overzealous follow up a fanboi may provide . Does a person who visits a forum for the sole purpose of information , Take the time to post ? Or do they simply look at both sides of an argument and make up their mind from information provided ?A poster who has been labeled as either a fanboi or hater , Is considered so because they post with a specific agenda . That agenda is of no interest to someone who may be only here seeking actual gameplay information , Or how a certain aspect of the game works . You are giving the posters constantly trolling here far to much credit . A majority of the MMO market dosen't even visit forums related to games they play .
Been here and debated this. So to save us both a lot of time....we'll agree to disagree. Anyone have a Midol...I could use one right about now.
That's a pretty low blow man. Won't need paid endorsers to browse boards and spread falsities?
I said it before. It doesn't matter what anyone at Sigil says, not even the man in charge himself, there will be those that will interprut what is crlearly written in print, twist it, then shove it back at anyone that happens to read what they wrote.
Are you implying that Sigil has paid endorsers in the form of reps that reach out to forums to maintane, or attempt to maintane, a relationship with thier cosumer base? The catch my drift part makes what you imply clear. Aren't they supposed to be doing this concidering they don't have an official forum themself? If the reps were posting that the game sucked and agreed with the people that don't like VG would that be better? Would it please more people and bring back those that the game didn't agree with?
Nothing on this site as balanced out. If anything it's getting worse. You can't even start a thread accually discussing the game with other players without someone coming in and derailing it. To the point that people are posting links to the BBB and others start "open letters" for the sole intent of pretending that that is the only way you can get the attention of the reps at Sigil, when in truth thier just fullfiling thier need to be at the center of attention and deluted to think that they achieved something cause someone from Sigil postedin a DIFFERENT thread. You can't even accuse the "vanbois" of being the bigger part of the problem. Look the the posts at the top here. A lot of the people that accually support the game have given up even posting here. Someone will turn that around to say that they've stopped supporting, that they've come to thier sences and seen what kind of crap the game is. You can look at past threads and see who some of the people that liked to post here about it; some of the old attempts at accually discussing the game and see how the mood has been every so slowing shifting in the favor of those that don't like VG as those that do move away to other boards were they can have a discussion about the game they like.
The only thing this forum proves is what can happen when you let a bunch of people with oposite views run rampant. This particullar board has become nothing but an outlet for the same people who felt let down, and disapointed because something they baught didn't turn out to be what they "expected" it to be. And anyone that has a difference of opinion is concidered a rabid "vanboi" for posting thier feelings on a forum forum dedicated to the game they like.
Maybe I'm confused. Maybe her at MMORPG.com the forums are set up dif. Maybe they're not for the fans but an outlet for people to bash whatever game they like, were staff writers encourage the behavior by posting thier own brand of gross overexageration and falsities. Or maybe the intent is to disgust the people that enjoy them game enough that they simply leave and go to another site.
Make no mistakes man, the same thing you say can go for this site as well. Someones making money off ads, from games. And if players and game devs. alike get the impression that the employees of this site can't take a moral, and ethical approach to the things they say in regard to any particiallar game. It's one thing to state your opinion; it's another to make implications that a company would participate in unethical business practice as you so elequently imply with your post.
It may be your opinion and you can say so all you want in a disclaimer, but in the end when people read your posts and see your name with staff writer under it, it could give them an uneasy feeling about how this site operates,and the things it's employees are allowed to say about a game. And developers might just look at it the same way.
Mcquaid clearly stated what the aim was for spreading awareness of the game; he then had to come to this site and clarify himself becuase people took it and twisted it into some issue that it never was. Why is it so hard to just accept what the guy was saying for what it is? They want people that like the game to tell thier friends. Since when did this become a bad thing to do? Why do people on this site think that that viral marketing is only acceptable when you're informing others that you disliked something?
Your actions represent the company you work for and no amount of disclaimers can change that. When it's all said and done it still says STAFF writer under your name, and I cringe that you are allowed to make such dirogitory, insinuating posts here.
Edit: I can't cotroll some of the spelling and gramatical errors. The right hand doesn't respond correctly any more, and it hurts to much to go back and fix. I do my best to catch them while I'm writing.
That's a pretty low blow man. Won't need paid endorsers to browse boards and spread falsities?
I said it before. It doesn't matter what anyone at Sigil says, not even the man in charge himself, there will be those that will interprut what is crlearly written in print, twist it, then shove it back at anyone that happens to read what they wrote.
Are you implying that Sigil has paid endorsers in the form of reps that reach out to forums to maintane, or attempt to maintane, a relationship with thier cosumer base? The catch my drift part makes what you imply clear. Aren't they supposed to be doing this concidering they don't have an official forum themself? If the reps were posting that the game sucked and agreed with the people that don't like VG would that be better? Would it please more people and bring back those that the game didn't agree with?
Nothing on this site as balanced out. If anything it's getting worse. You can't even start a thread accually discussing the game with other players without someone coming in and derailing it. To the point that people are posting links to the BBB and others start "open letters" for the sole intent of pretending that that is the only way you can get the attention of the reps at Sigil, when in truth thier just fullfiling thier need to be at the center of attention and deluted to think that they achieved something cause someone from Sigil postedin a DIFFERENT thread. You can't even accuse the "vanbois" of being the bigger part of the problem. Look the the posts at the top here. A lot of the people that accually support the game have given up even posting here. Someone will turn that around to say that they've stopped supporting, that they've come to thier sences and seen what kind of crap the game is. You can look at past threads and see who some of the people that liked to post here about it; some of the old attempts at accually discussing the game and see how the mood has been every so slowing shifting in the favor of those that don't like VG as those that do move away to other boards were they can have a discussion about the game they like.
The only thing this forum proves is what can happen when you let a bunch of people with oposite views run rampant. This particullar board has become nothing but an outlet for the same people who felt let down, and disapointed because something they baught didn't turn out to be what they "expected" it to be. And anyone that has a difference of opinion is concidered a rabid "vanboi" for posting thier feelings on a forum forum dedicated to the game they like.
Maybe I'm confused. Maybe her at MMORPG.com the forums are set up dif. Maybe they're not for the fans but an outlet for people to bash whatever game they like, were staff writers encourage the behavior by posting thier own brand of gross overexageration and falsities. Or maybe the intent is to disgust the people that enjoy them game enough that they simply leave and go to another site.
Make no mistakes man, the same thing you say can go for this site as well. Someones making money off ads, from games. And if players and game devs. alike get the impression that the employees of this site can't take a moral, and ethical approach to the things they say in regard to any particiallar game. It's one thing to state your opinion; it's another to make implications that a company would participate in unethical business practice as you so elequently imply with your post.
It may be your opinion and you can say so all you want in a disclaimer, but in the end when people read your posts and see your name with staff writer under it, it could give them an uneasy feeling about how this site operates,and the things it's employees are allowed to say about a game. And developers might just look at it the same way.
Mcquaid clearly stated what the aim was for spreading awareness of the game; he then had to come to this site and clarify himself becuase people took it and twisted it into some issue that it never was. Why is it so hard to just accept what the guy was saying for what it is? They want people that like the game to tell thier friends. Since when did this become a bad thing to do? Why do people on this site think that that viral marketing is only acceptable when you're informing others that you disliked something?
Your actions represent the company you work for and no amount of disclaimers can change that. When it's all said and done it still says STAFF writer under your name, and I cringe that you are allowed to make such dirogitory, insinuating posts here.
Edit: I can't cotroll some of the spelling and gramatical errors. The right hand doesn't respond correctly any more, and it hurts to much to go back and fix. I do my best to catch them while I'm writing.
Wow...you have a lot of anger in you. Do you need a Midol too? I need it for another reason, but I'm sure it'll work on what ever is ailing you.
Oh and thanks for the jab. I wrote that piece the way I did to get above the level of noise in forums such as this. It worked. It got peoples attention and they posted to it keeping it on the front page. People are actually pretty predictable - especially in this and other forums like Silky Venom. Say stuff in a certain way and you're going to garnar attention. What can I say...I've been around a few forums in my time and I know how to make them work.
This is exactly what I'm talking about.
You make a post that has a differnce of opinion and view and some knuckle head comes back with the one liner, "man you have a lot of hate in you"
The comment about midol was cute.
You only rienforce the things I've posted about. Good for you.
Edit: And hows your ranger doing?
Have to agree with Thamoris on this one.
The game is good and worth praise. Do I think it's perfect? no, nothing is. But it is a lot of fun. They have the normal amount of bugs that all games have. They deal with them pretty quick though. Better then most.
Wish I got paid for saying that but I give it freely.
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There is no war in World of BoreCraft
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Teala, if you think that I come across as angry then maybe I do sometimes.
It takes a LOT of effort for me to type, but less then it takes for me to slide a mouse around; wich is why I spend more time here then in game. If I can't play the game I enjoy then well the next best thing for me is talking about it. Unfortunetly for me Sigil doesn't feel the need for official forums, something I disagree with, and I prefer the layout of this site over others available to me. I find it easy to navigate and the setup they use for posting is easy for me to use. This site, in my opinion, makes writing a post enjoyable because of the many options and controll of the body of text it provides.
If I come across angry in a post it's not intentional and may have something to do with the pain I'm in. As it is I can't keep going tonight. I'm going to lay down with my girl and possible sob a little.
If you go back and recheck some of my posts you'll accually find the ones of me admitting to being a miserable person. I have my reasons.
Don't be so arrogant as to believe you know a thing about me that I don't chose to share. What you think of as predictablitly I call conviction. i stand by my beliefs and have never been one to be quite.
And you should work on your writing more, it comes across as to forced and doesn't have that natural feel that helps others relate to the things you saying. It also lacks flare and a sence of individualism. Cymdia (sp?) achieves this in his posts, even if I disagree with them; maybe you should read some of his work here. It might help you.
And that's a shot at the horribly overblow and tedious review you wrote, that just screamed "look at me, I'm typing". Bet you didn't see that coming.
Good night.
Well Fariic, up until that last reply you had some interesting and relevant things to say on the subject at hand. However, the level of vitriol in your last post far outweighs anything thrown at you, and it was unwarranted.
We all have very serious issues in life, don't ever assume you are the only burdened soul on this board. That is neither a valid reason, nor an excuse for personal attacks.
The point I was trying to make was that, regardless of whether you praise or hate a game, righteously or incentive-based, there will always be someone else there who takes pleasure in countering every single point and statement you make.
That's why I feel supporting viral marketing as a primary form of advertisement is inefficient. As I stated earlier, I think that if a game is solid enough, the gameplay, not the people, will promote it.
Sorry if that came out unclear in my previous post.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Brad, thank you for posting on these forums. I would like you to know that it is only respectable. I have also respected your person, your ideal and your experience. I have followed VG closely and passionately for a long while and I am very sorry that the project ended up this way. I really tried to like it, I had high hopes for it. I even got the word to a previous guild of mine and told about it.
Despite all the guesses, only "you" know what went wrong internally and I also understand that you can not publicly admit it. And I still believe that you have a much more realistic evaluation of your own game than the all rosy view of some of the "vanbois" (I am also glad you can use that term, since I get flamed when I use it)
I don't think this is the end. VG for me is sadly history, but I learnt a lot from it. I hope that you and your team will learn from it as well. Learning from mistakes is the path to greatness. I know that your next game will be a masterpiece, because it will have all this treasure of experience engraved into it. I am eagerly looking forward to it!
(I know that you have a way of pinning the threads you write and come back to them sooner or later. The reason for this post).
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
Viral marketing is word of mouth. Ugh, I've been banned for 3 days reading posts like this. SOOO frustrating lol that someone could think that what Brad McQuaid was saying was they were going to use viruses or some sort of add spam when in the context he was talking it was all too obvious that viral marketing meant word of mouth, even if you didn't know what it meant before reading the post.
My post is just as valid as anyone else who says anything else about anything on the internet.
Double post LA LA LA
Actually, there seems to be confusion on both sides as to what "viral marketing" means.
Word of Mouth is often a tool used by viral marketing, but it is not viral marketing in and of itself. People playing the game and saying they liked it is merely word of mouth. An opinion. A review.
Word of Mouth only becomes a form of viral marketing IF it is instigated in some way by the company. This can be done several ways. Having company employees pretend to be average gamers. Posting information somewhere on the web and getting the general populace to spread the word of their own free will. That's viral marketing.
A gamer saying, "I've played since beta and I love this game," is not some slick form of advertizing. If that truly is what Brad is referring to as "viral advertizing," maybe he should stop using the term, as it only seems to be casting suspicion on his practices.
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
Aye there does seem to be a disconnect about what it really means. I'm not sure myself.
But Brad's comments indicate he considers word of mouth (without input from the company) to be viral marketing. I assumed that's what it meant also.
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There is no war in World of BoreCraft
I work on internet product that uses viral marketing , naturally i am not free to disclose what this product is - but i will tell you that we reached 12 million users world wide.
Did we used fake forum posters. Yes
Actually we have a guy hired as a fake poster.
It is his 9 hours day job to go around forums and posts under many diferent usernames...
Some people acuse me for being tinfoil hat, out to save internet fanatic and whatever.
But it is only because i know how it works from the inside
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
I do not doubt there are companies that do that. But to assume that every positive post about a product is done in that way is just stupid.
I have no affilation with Sigil in any way other than I pay for a Vanguard account. Yet I post many positive comments about Vanguard but only because I like the game and feel the hater boys do it a massive diservice with their exagerated claims. Noone directs me to do this.
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There is no war in World of BoreCraft
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!