Anyways that should answer your question ... I atleast answer each question presented I don't side step them all like yall do most the time, by talking trash and trying to get me riled up so my points get burried in petty arguments. Any other questions I will galdly answer but by now I know you understand what I am saying, this game could be much fun if it were balanced to be a game instead of just a historicaly accurate bore.
Our entire exchange was me trying to get you to answer one question, and you sidestepping it.
Originally, I didn't have anything against you. I genuinely wanted to understand your concerns, but all I got when I tried to get you to communicate them in a coherant manner was paranoid accusations and generalized whining.
I'm going to ask you once more, answer me the same way you answered that question: In your mind, how much should a player be able to afford with a months' VERM?
If you still don't understand the question after this, I'll try explaining a different way.
And I have answere that same stupid question 15 times or more already you just dont want to have to use you brain to put 2 and 2 together....
But once more just for you...
If you play 2 hrs a night for a whole month say 30 days. 5k ses should buy you about 10-15 sets of that cheap QL 5 (200ses)armor I was talking about, and mabe 10 weapons(for combatants). That figures you die about once every other day and need to replace gear, may not even need to spend that much if you play smart. If you are a crafter it should buy you all the tools you will need for the month(shouldnt be much) and most of your materials, I am not crafting anymore after seeing these stupid times so you will have to average that yourself.
Most of that is bound to be a little off but you get the main idea, dont act (once again) like you dont understand what I am saying.
After all RB said 5k ses should last you for a month mabe 2 or 3.... and they didnt say if you dont spend any of it...or if you run arround naked...they said playing average times, you can enjoy it to the full. Common sence here if you are playing like a freak 5-10 hrs a night buying materials and everything in sight it wont last but mabe a week or so but if you play like a person that has a life... it should last the ammount of time RB said it would. And be able to enjoy the game to the FULL!!
If you cant understand this then tell me how long you think a months verm (supposedly 5k ses) should last.(what all it should buy and times played ) like I did.
Plus keep in mind I am looking at this from the perspective that people are actually playing(they arent atm) but imagine they are and we have lots of combat lots of lost gear and lots of demand for new gear.
I would say in a 2 hour play session a new crafter should be able to make about 2-3 QL 5 sets of armor. And that would be doing nothing but putting it together working hard. Not gathering or smelting that should be someone elses job.
See--there's the root of the problem. A lot of things in the armor-making process should be someone else's job. The Master Armor Smith should be responsible for fitting the components together at the end of the process, while mining, smelting, shaping strips, procureing hide, et al should be the work of other guild members.
The game is designed for large guilds to produce items in an "assembly line" type of process. A major problem is that people are trying to build everything themselves from scratch. We can agree that the game desperately needs more players to pull off their economic model, but it isn't worth sacrificing the entire economic vision for a short term gain in players.
Indeed that is much of the problem ... but it is not just gonna fix itself. Steps have to be taken to balance it out for the players that are here.
What I am suggesting will still allow the whole assembly line process for large guilds ... only in the higher QL items. The lower QL 5-25 weapons(i suggested) and armor that dont last long and sell cheap are basicaly like templates that new crafters start making. once they get good at making those they can start making the much longer to make and much higher QL items.
It dosent really take away from the game but allows new players to feel like they are accomplishing something... and not just burning wheels ... or time.
ROFLMAO are u out of your mind?? 2 to 3 ql 5 armor sets??? You must either be young and dont know any better or u are just not so bright up there... Dude in 2 hours u cant even shape chest peice, rememeber u have to keep heating and beating the crap out of the metal to get it to shape up...
Sorry but if u are going to complain like this i think u are better off playing a fantasy game which indeed u will make well over 2 to 3 armor sets in 10 mins...
Originally posted by shane910
Originally posted by siredmond
Better question. How many sets of armour do you think a smith should be able to produce in a given time frame?
I will answer your question.
I would say in a 2 hour play session a new crafter should be able to make about 2-3 QL 5 sets of armor. And that would be doing nothing but putting it together working hard. Not gathering or smelting that should be someone elses job.
Now one QL 99 set should take the whole 2 hours and require high skills and high QL materials.(or even a little longer mabe up to 4 hrs)
I know you are gonna say, "but IRL it would take days or weeks...." but again this is supposed to be a game. It has to be fun and somewhat rewarding or players are gonna leave like they already did.
Also everyone says that the community is not large enough and thats why things are so crazily priced... this would help that we would see alot more items being sold alot more crafters working and competition would drive the prices down. Not to mention would fuel conflict for resources.
And since you lose items on death or through use players would be going through twice and much gear and tools as they are now so it is not like it gona be stockpiled they will be getting used up ... and the majority of items would be lower QL so they really wouldn't last that long.
Anyways that should answer your question ... I atleast answer each question presented I don't side step them all like yall do most the time, by talking trash and trying to get me riled up so my points get burried in petty arguments.
Any other questions I will galdly answer but by now I know you understand what I am saying, this game could be much fun if it were balanced to be a game instead of just a historicaly accurate bore.
Did you even read what I posted... you are an idiot. I never said 2-3 in 20 mins I said a whole 2 hour play session of non stop work.
I also said I know how long they take IRL but this is a supposed to be a F'ing game....
It seems that u are the idiot becuase u cant even realize that when i said " Sorry but if u are going to complain like this i think u are better off playing a fantasy game which indeed u will make well over 2 to 3 armor sets in 10 mins... I was talking about in the fantasy game....
I understand its a game which is why u dont have to wait weeks and just rather a few hours which in turn normaly takes a day becuase u cant stay up for 5 hours so u go to bed and do whatever it is you have to do in the morning weither it be work or school so in turn it does seem like it takes too long but really it doesn.... There is plently of other things to do in the game while waiting for that to finish..
First off, sorry for calling ya an idiot. I am just getting sick and tired of saying the same thing over and over and noone bothering to try and understand what I am saying plus got lots of RL shit happening at the same time(sure you know how it is , easy to bow up).
I am actually a very friendly guy , would give ya the shirt off my back if it would help ya out. And in game I help most everyone I come accross that needs it. New players or if someone is being ganked whatever. That why I joined as a roman wanted to help guard and keep players(crafters and all) safe.
Now to your post...
I have tried everything I can think of in the game once... its not that fun to begin with just alot of standing arround and constant adding of items one at a time or picking them up . It would be more interesting if mabe we have NPC's wandering arround to interact with on whatever level like bandits traveling merchants or whatnot.
And ok like you said it takes so long to craft that it rolls in to a day or two if you can only play like 2 hrs a night ... come on, you have to see that players arent gonna enjoy just logging in and working on a hut or whatever (remember it not alot of fun) and then log out and have to do it again the next day and the next. If their were lots of cool animations and mabe actual aiming involved with crafting it might be different but its it not you just stare and the same unchangeing screen and add items on at a time.
And please name all these other things to do you mentioned, I have ran all over the map and their is nothing to do except if you are gonna be a hunter.. ATM. Where are these fun things to do?
"...that same stupid question..."? The validity of your entire argument rests on the answer to that question. And no, what you said in your last post directed to me was the first thing you've given that comes close to an answer, the rest of the time you were just giving vague generalities.
First of all, let me say that I'm sorry you're having real life problems, I can understand your attitude a little better if you're under alot of stress, and I hope that everything turns out better for you.
Now that you've finally answered me, I'm willing to discuss it. It seems you think that hamatas are basic equipment. I hope you don'y think it childish of me to continue asking questions, but that's how you learn things. If you provide all paying players enough to buy 15 hamatas per month, what happens to them after they're looted? What about the people who don't lose them? It seems like they would just keep piling up. If everyone has more money than they know what to do with, an inflationary economy would occur. If the items are unlimited and price controlled, there'd still be item inflation. What will VERMers who happen to be successful looters or crafters spend all that money on? What will barbarians, who don't have access to armour vendors spend it on?
I will say that I do think your idea of making the low quality items NPC sold and the higher one's crafted is a great idea. If there is ever a time when a profession's vital equipment (spear and buckler for soldiers) was expensive enough to make the game unplayable, that would be an excellent way to remedy it.
Now you say that all the soldier's equipment should be easily affordable, enough to replace many times in one month. If they are implented, would that apply to horses, chariots, triremes, palaces? Is there anything you think should be difficult to get? You say that most players don't like a challenge, but I disagree. Many get frustrated when they fail, and ask for an easier time, but if they didn't want any challenge, then we wouldn't have games, just digital movies.
And there's the issue with crafters. There isn't generally a point where you can say one can't use more furnaces, kilns, ovens or retting pits unless they have so many it's physically impossible to get to the last one before the first one's done. How do you decide how many materials they need in a month? If they have the time, tools, and crafting stations, they could churn out as many items as they want.
You asked how long long I think it should last. I think the economy should decide that. It doesn't matter if players are fighting with sticks and stones or onagers and ballistae, as long as everyone has the same oppurtunities. The game is built around the idea of a virtual economy. Players are supposed to depend on each other, and be free to make their own fate. Two things are inhibiting that at the moment, our inability to produce animal parts, and the fact that there aren't so many professions and therefore less things to spend money on. But I think that any attempt to plan the economy, except in the most extreme circumstances, takes away from the experience. What we have here is the closest thing to a true, independant virtual world. Taking that away in favor of making the game easier could do to RV what the NGE did to SWG.
I just don't think it's that simple. There are many, many different factors to consider when talking about a major change like this, it's not something to be undertaken lightly. You've clearly though about this a great deal, but isn't it possible there are areas and factors you forgot to consider?
I do really admire your passion. I would greatly appreciate it if you could answer these questions. Especially if you do it without childish insults.
For the record, here's why I didn't consider your responses, before now, a real answer:
Picture someone going to a bakery to buy a pie. He makes his selection, and gives the vendor the amount on the label. Vendor: That's not enough money. I'll need more.
Customer: How much do you want? Vendor: I want the fair price for an apple pie.
C: How much is that? V: Enough to pay for the materials and labor with some profit left over.
C: Ok, just tell me how much that is, and I'll give it to you. V: Geez, are you DENSE? I want THE FAIR PRICE FOR AN APPLE PIE.
C: Ok, howmuch did you spend makingthe pie? How long did it take? V: What do I look like, an accountant?
C: You didn't even tell me how much of a profit you expect. V: I should at least be able to run my bakery, pay myself a decent salary, and have some left over to expand my business.
C: Well... there are other ways to make more money then raising prices. Why don't you fix up your storefront, and draw more people in? V: Yeah, like I'm really going to spend hours repainting that thing one stroke at a time. Maybe if I had more labor and some machinery, but I can't afford that unless you give me the FAIR PRICE FOR AN APPLE PIE.
C: How about cutting expenses? No one seems to like that flavor, why don't you stop stocking it? V: I don't think you get how this works. I give you the PIE, you give me enough money to keep my business running. That's why I have this plan, where every January customers will sign up for a yearly plan, and get a year's supply of pies. They'll pay for 60% of it cash, 10% in store credit they'll get by returning their empty tins, 20% in labor by helping me clean my backroom...
C: How much is a year's supply? V: Enough to last for a year, based on peoples' consumption rates.
C: But not everyone eats the same amount of pie. V: It will last them for a year.
C: All I want is one. V: Then you'd better give me THE FAIR PRICE FOR AN APPLE PIE.
C: What's wrong with the sticker price? That's about how much the other bakeries nearby charge. V: What about all the bakeries throughout history that have gone out of business? If you don't pay us the fair price for our products, no one's going to want to run a bakery anymore.
C: JUST TELL ME HOW MUCH YOU WANT. V: Listen you moron, I already told you I want the fair price for an apple pie. Enough to pay for the materials and labor with enough left over to live comfortably, keep my business running, and be able to afford some additions. What about that is so hard to understand !?
If you're building an mmorpg, or if you'd like to share ideas or talk about this industry, visit Multiplayer Worlds.
Well to start, I loved the story. It very much mimics our situation and also the games current state.
Main reason I said it was a stupid question is because it is very much like the situation with the customer and the vendor. Their are many variables some of witch I cannot account for thats why I had said a bunch of times I cant give ya a100% answer it has to be balanced by the devs useing a group of testers not just me... all I can do is generalize and explain why.
I dont think the hamata is everyday equipment but a crap version that a new smith made (QL 5-25 hamata) would be easy to attain if you are verming, because if you are verming you are not a slave or a poor person you should be considered by the game a average wealthy citizen. That is if they want people to verm on a regular basis.
As for the story If their were set prices on materails and scaled craft times in the world of RV their wouldnt be that problem... the vendor would have prices on his wares low for the low QL and high for the high QL and the customer would already know the going prices based on those. The whole situation never would have happened. Everything is too up in the air in RV.
C: Ok, howmuch did you spend makingthe pie? How long did it take? V: What do I look like, an accountant? Just like that, thats why we have crazy prices because a player said wow it took me 3 days to make this, gathering materials and crafting it I figure I should get about 10k ses for this one. That player is not an accountant(or game designer) like he said he dosent have to think about all that he just knows it took him a long time to make and he wants to be compensated for that time. He dosent have to think hey if I price this really high others might do the same, and if everyone sets high prices all arround them it is gonna run everyone off. Especially with the game having a radically new revenue system. See he dosent think beyond his own loss and gains but a developer does or should...
They are supposed to be able to keep it in balance by modifying the value of verming like they said they could. I have yet to see that happen, But I see high prices all over the place and nothing to stop them from going even higher.
Mabe it is just me but in a game where items cost RL money(and they do in RV) a $40 dollar item or more is unacceptable.
This is what is really unacceptable to me their is no cap on how much ses you can buy per month so they got their own ebay gold sellers system in place, but at the same time $40 in verm is equal to 10k ses in game and that will buy you very little. You would think that if in a months time you gave a game 1 game $40 they would be loving you but here its like nothing....nothing really to show for it especailly when you realize that everything you bought in game is not really yours and will be lost sooner or later.
They have a great set up for a game right now it just feels more like a scam... all I am saying is that I want it to feel more like a game.
As it stands right now, your economic situations has nothing to do with your social class. The way it should be. In fact that would have still been the case up into the 18th century in some places.
" I dont think the hamata is everyday equipment but a crap version that a new smith made (QL 5-25 hamata) would be easy to attain if you are verming, because if you are verming you are not a slave or a poor person you should be considered by the game a average wealthy citizen. "
I don't think that was ever the intention. A clear-cut class system might be more historically accurate, but it's not as fun as the free market system we have now.
"As for the story If their were set prices on materails and scaled craft times in the world of RV their wouldnt be that problem... the vendor would have prices on his wares low for the low QL and high for the high QL and the customer would already know the going prices based on those. The whole situation never would have happened. Everything is too up in the air in RV.
C: Ok, howmuch did you spend makingthe pie? How long did it take? V: What do I look like, an accountant? Just like that, thats why we have crazy prices because a player said wow it took me 3 days to make this, gathering materials and crafting it I figure I should get about 10k ses for this one. That player is not an accountant(or game designer) like he said he dosent have to think about all that he just knows it took him a long time to make and he wants to be compensated for that time. He dosent have to think hey if I price this really high others might do the same, and if everyone sets high prices all arround them it is gonna run everyone off. "
I fail to see the problem. That's how it works in the real world. There's a limit as to how much they can charge: How much the customers are willing to pay. All other things being equal, if there's a surplus of a good, prices are too high. Some excess goods just sitting there waiting to be sold won't do the seller any good, so they'll have to lower prices if they want to make money. If there's still demand after a seller is bought out, prices were too low. The seller will raise prices to make more money. If the price the item will sell at isn't as profitable as something else the seller can do, they'll stop stocking it. In that way, the economy sets its own prices, just by all parties involved not thinking of anyone but themselves.
No one has to standardize the prices, the individual sellers just need to decide the best prices for their purposes. Charge too high, no one will buy from you. If they do, then the price isn't too high, unless you have some means of coercing them. Charge too low, you'll sell out quickly and not make as much money.
If you're building an mmorpg, or if you'd like to share ideas or talk about this industry, visit Multiplayer Worlds.
I am just getting sick and tired of saying the same thing over and over
So why do you do it?
Thought it was obvious.... Because I cared about this game. Because I wanted it to do well. Because I wanted to have a large enough community so that the game would have the chance to get balanced.
But I understand that thats not what you guys want, so whatever enjoy it how it is .... if you can.(I and a few thousand others could not)
I am just getting sick and tired of saying the same thing over and over
So why do you do it?
Thought it was obvious.... Because I cared about this game. Because I wanted it to do well. Because I wanted to have a large enough community so that the game would have the chance to get balanced.
But I understand that thats not what you guys want, so whatever enjoy it how it is .... if you can.(I and a few thousand others could not)
Real life isnt balanced. Take your dreams and visions of the perfect society somewhere else. Roma Victor is (supposed to be) realistic for an ancient Roman setting. You will not find balance.
As far as the VERM, think of it as a rich family - you're born into it, you have a boatload of cash, and if you dont invest it properly, you'll be just as poor as someone who wasnt born wealthy.
Originally posted by Kruniac As far as the VERM, think of it as a rich family - you're born into it, you have a boatload of cash, and if you dont invest it properly, you'll be just as poor as someone who wasnt born wealthy.
Seems to me that IS how he thinks of it, and it's the source of his discontent. Like I mentioned though, I don't think that's the intention. It's just a small bonus when you need it. Status has to be earned.
If you're building an mmorpg, or if you'd like to share ideas or talk about this industry, visit Multiplayer Worlds.
Originally posted by Kruniac As far as the VERM, think of it as a rich family - you're born into it, you have a boatload of cash, and if you dont invest it properly, you'll be just as poor as someone who wasnt born wealthy.
Seems to me that IS how he thinks of it, and it's the source of his discontent. Like I mentioned though, I don't think that's the intention. It's just a small bonus when you need it. Status has to be earned.
So hes upset because his character wasnt born rich? Can this man NOT roleplay for the life of him? Ugh. I give up. Im done with these people.
...Back to trolling the rest of the forums. I just hope RV can get some more -GOOD- players, instead of Everquest refugees.
Originally posted by Kruniac As far as the VERM, think of it as a rich family - you're born into it, you have a boatload of cash, and if you dont invest it properly, you'll be just as poor as someone who wasnt born wealthy.
Seems to me that IS how he thinks of it, and it's the source of his discontent. Like I mentioned though, I don't think that's the intention. It's just a small bonus when you need it. Status has to be earned.
So hes upset because his character wasnt born rich? Can this man NOT roleplay for the life of him? Ugh. I give up. Im done with these people.
...Back to trolling the rest of the forums. I just hope RV can get some more -GOOD- players, instead of Everquest refugees.
My new sig - "WAAAAAH. ROMA VICTOR IZ HAAAAARD!"
He's upset that despite all he's invested in VERM, he can't afford to live like a rich man.
If you're building an mmorpg, or if you'd like to share ideas or talk about this industry, visit Multiplayer Worlds.
Originally posted by Kruniac As far as the VERM, think of it as a rich family - you're born into it, you have a boatload of cash, and if you dont invest it properly, you'll be just as poor as someone who wasnt born wealthy.
Seems to me that IS how he thinks of it, and it's the source of his discontent. Like I mentioned though, I don't think that's the intention. It's just a small bonus when you need it. Status has to be earned.
So hes upset because his character wasnt born rich? Can this man NOT roleplay for the life of him? Ugh. I give up. Im done with these people.
...Back to trolling the rest of the forums. I just hope RV can get some more -GOOD- players, instead of Everquest refugees.
My new sig - "WAAAAAH. ROMA VICTOR IZ HAAAAARD!"
He's upset that despite all he's invested in VERM, he can't afford to live like a rich man.
Invest in the VERM, get some money in-game. It doesnt allow a rich lifestyle, it allows for an investment. The guy probably buys the best of everything, hoping to get an edge on other players. Naturally, the game doesnt work that way, and so he feels like he is "cheated".
If he would focus more on developing his character, working his way up ladders, and roleplaying, he wouldnt have to be concerned about being a success, because it would come.
...and the VERM? That money would be there for when he really needed it.
Originally posted by Kruniac As far as the VERM, think of it as a rich family - you're born into it, you have a boatload of cash, and if you dont invest it properly, you'll be just as poor as someone who wasnt born wealthy.
Seems to me that IS how he thinks of it, and it's the source of his discontent. Like I mentioned though, I don't think that's the intention. It's just a small bonus when you need it. Status has to be earned.
So hes upset because his character wasnt born rich? Can this man NOT roleplay for the life of him? Ugh. I give up. Im done with these people.
...Back to trolling the rest of the forums. I just hope RV can get some more -GOOD- players, instead of Everquest refugees.
My new sig - "WAAAAAH. ROMA VICTOR IZ HAAAAARD!"
He's upset that despite all he's invested in VERM, he can't afford to live like a rich man.
Invest in the VERM, get some money in-game. It doesnt allow a rich lifestyle, it allows for an investment. The guy probably buys the best of everything, hoping to get an edge on other players. Naturally, the game doesnt work that way, and so he feels like he is "cheated".
If he would focus more on developing his character, working his way up ladders, and roleplaying, he wouldnt have to be concerned about being a success, because it would come.
...and the VERM? That money would be there for when he really needed it.
SO wrong on many levels. I am upset that the money I have invested is just a waste... I should have done as you loyal RV fans said and not put in a penny...... Hell everyone should do the same according to yall right? Yall are so dam backwards its not even funny.
I have said over and over the game cant make money like that but you guys seem adamant that they can make money when people have no need or want to verm...
You think that players enjoy the long tedious grinding for skills, even tho one of the main features that drew people here was the fact that they said it was grind free...
You think players enjoy standing arround for hours or days(doing nothing fun mind you) trying to make a single item for a dam game when they could have it so that player can make it in a acceptable ammount of time if they could select the QL they were aiming for and have those times balanced so they are relative to that QL.
You find the outrageously high prices ok(probably the stuff selling now is yours or you have a investment in it) but everyone else finds them too high thats why noone buys them(or use them if they do)... just wait till they can be destroyed or looted from your merchant shop.... ohh wait thats right they aren't gonna make it that real huh? lame
Right now players are seporated by levels... by that I mean a new player cannot go out and have a good combat match up against another player unless that player is also new... skill actual player skill, should be the determining factor in battles in a game that is supposed to be realistic. The thing that makes them different from eachother in those battles or what should make each player slightly different from eachother is the stats they chose at creation the only thing that all the skill levels do is make it obvious that you have to grind for weeks on end to be effective in your role. And since it is not a very pretty game an it dosent have very cool animations the grind is kinda unacceptable for most players.... and since they said it was to be grind free they pretty much lied, cuz you have to grind each and every skill instead of just a main level.
And it is obvious just by reading the forums... take for instance a player(other than me) complains about something in RV forum, the same 10 people come in and say hey you dont know what you are talking about and you just want to change the game KFR is doing all he can bla bla bla... and KFR pop in and says thank you Zakke (hes one) well put and pretty much dismisses the new player that was speaking out about something that could be better... ( I have seen this a few dozen times just browsing the forums) It is obvious they only care about the handfull that has been backing them up from the earliest stages of the game the rest are just nobodys to them.... even tho they suggest ways for RB to make more money and make the game more playable by everyone. Where RB's buddys are content in telling everyone not to verm since you dont need to to make it in this game .... smart huh?
I still have hope that they will make this game fun and playable by average players(like they said it would be), instead of just catering to their friends or their original batch of testers that obviously did a horrible job of it.
And it is obvious just by reading the forums... take for instance a player(other than me) complains about something in RV forum, the same 10 people come in and say hey you dont know what you are talking about and you just want to change the game KFR is doing all he can bla bla bla... and KFR pop in and says thank you Zakke (hes one) well put and pretty much dismisses the new player that was speaking out about something that could be better... ( I have seen this a few dozen times just browsing the forums) It is obvious they only care about the handfull that has been backing them up from the earliest stages of the game the rest are just nobodys to them.... even tho they suggest ways for RB to make more money and make the game more playable by everyone. Where RB's buddys are content in telling everyone not to verm since you dont need to to make it in this game .... smart huh?
If you'd actually care about the content of the posts you read you would see there is no favorizing. And KFR has basically said thanks to me 3 times or so, out of 2000 posts all written with great care to make the forums worthwhile for the developers.
This is the basic scenario you are so upset about:
"
Person 1:
KFR you are a liar and I hate everything about this game FIX THIS NOW!!!!oneone!!!
Person 2-9:
bla bla bla
more personal attacks on KFR
bla bla
Zakke:
Read the forum rules and try to respect the community and the developers.
KFR:
Zakke said it.
....explaining everything about the forum rules....
Thread locked.
"
In your opinion this proves that RB only listens to me and a bunch of other players. It's not even laughable - it's pathetic to even think that way.
You act like a 6-year old. Happy birthday!
(just look at some of my suggestion threads and see how many of them have been implemented.)
KFR has actually very clearly said they are trying not to only listen to players on the forums since they represent such a small part of their potential customerbase. Which I think is very wise of him.
I seen it with more than just you... most all of the "vets". But you never see him actualy respond to what the OP was about it just gets locked and shuffeled away under the rug...
Example: I had suggested to make the shield hit box and the upper body movable, much like in a boxing game, where you hold a key and then can move the shield up and down by moving the mouse...and the upper body could bob and weave in the same way. Now I got the idea posting in another thread on combat and decided(since some thought it was a good idea) to post it on its own in detail...
Well allong comes one of the "vets" talking crap about me opening a new thread so I defend my posting, by saying that "it's not too much to ask if this is too hard to implement or not is it?"(wanted to know if they could even do that or not, if not I would be able to drop it and try to think up other cool stuff they could try) and KFR just pops in and says "yes it is." And a long(seemingly rude) paragraph as to why he wont answer my question, then... locked thread.
Simple(polite) thing would have been to say , "no, good idea but our system couldn't handle something like that ." or " We might be able to do something like that in the future but right now it would be too time comsuming ." Instead of saying (in long form)his time is too precious to answer my question....
How the hell is that taking outside opinions or even listining to them? And believe me I seen it with more than just me it is pretty much anyone that feels the game should be better... Seems like they got hurt feelings(from the truth) and now only want to listen to those that are kissing their behinds...
And if they want to take opinions from those outside the forums, it is unnessairy but good. All they really have to do is use the search feature in the RV forums... They will see tons of players(with low post counts) saying lower the prices or speed up crafting a bit, they and you will see those posts and you will see the same handfull of players run them off. Saying like you, they are 6 yrs old or want to change the whole game to what they want... or whatever you could think of to run them off.
Now dont get me twisted, I still even after all that have high hopes for the game but I am getting a bit more frustrated since the only good looking game(with potential) besides this one is still a few months away from release.... And they(RB) could fix all the unnessairy turn offs in this game so simply... atleast they said they were puting in a system that allowed them to...
All I can say is that it is all about your perceived feelings about things. I won't go into detail about it since it serves no point than to fuel further pointless arguments.
I'll just enjoy the game for what it is, I just found the tracks of a bear after many hours of seraching, but it's a sneaky bugger. Can't find him. Tomorrow, if he's still there, he won't be for long.
All I can say is that it is all about your perceived feelings about things. I won't go into detail about it since it serves no point than to fuel further pointless arguments.
I'll just enjoy the game for what it is, I just found the tracks of a bear after many hours of seraching, but it's a sneaky bugger. Can't find him. Tomorrow, if he's still there, he won't be for long.
Well I hope ya catch him.
I wish I could enjoy the game for what it is, but you read my posts and you know how I feel so I just cant currently.
But I am glad for you that you can.
Mabe some day soon they will make some adjustments to crafting and the ses value and I (and others) can join in with ya.
Cuz trust me even while I am playing AOC, if I see that they made some good adjustments I would be back in a flash. As I am sure many others would.
I was taking a stroll down memory lane reading these posts, and I figured I would bump this so everyone who hasn't read it can, and those that had can get a good laugh about all the folks that were talking trash to me and couldn't see the light I was shining right in their eyes. Seems the majority of them aren't even arround anymore and have given up on this game...not to mention the community is even smaller if thats even possible... Apparently it is though.
It is still 100% relevant as no changes have been made to address any of this. And the new "Fee's" are just adding to it making it worse.
Funny that I was saying I want to verm and make it less painfull for others to want to verm and they were all saying you don't have to and not to verm....yet KFR ignored me and still does, and now is bitching about noone verming LMFAO!!!
Anyways enjoy the read, I know I got a good laugh at the expense of those that were so adamant about defending the game and it's direction, that are no longer arround. LOL
I was taking a stroll down memory lane reading these posts, and I figured I would bump this so everyone who hasn't read it can, and those that had can get a good laugh about all the folks that were talking trash to me and couldn't see the light I was shining right in their eyes. Seems the majority of them aren't even arround anymore and have given up on this game...not to mention the community is even smaller if thats even possible... Apparently it is though.
It is still 100% relevant as no changes have been made to address any of this. And the new "Fee's" are just adding to it making it worse. Funny that I was saying I want to verm and make it less painfull for others to want to verm and they were all saying you don't have to and not to verm....yet KFR ignored me and still does, and now is bitching about noone verming LMFAO!!!
Anyways enjoy the read, I know I got a good laugh at the expense of those that were so adamant about defending the game and it's direction, that are no longer arround. LOL
I was taking a stroll down memory lane reading these posts, and I figured I would bump this so everyone who hasn't read it can, and those that had can get a good laugh about all the folks that were talking trash to me and couldn't see the light I was shining right in their eyes. Seems the majority of them aren't even arround anymore and have given up on this game...not to mention the community is even smaller if thats even possible... Apparently it is though.
It is still 100% relevant as no changes have been made to address any of this. And the new "Fee's" are just adding to it making it worse. Funny that I was saying I want to verm and make it less painfull for others to want to verm and they were all saying you don't have to and not to verm....yet KFR ignored me and still does, and now is bitching about noone verming LMFAO!!!
Anyways enjoy the read, I know I got a good laugh at the expense of those that were so adamant about defending the game and it's direction, that are no longer arround. LOL
I was taking a stroll down memory lane reading these posts, and I figured I would bump this so everyone who hasn't read it can, and those that had can get a good laugh about all the folks that were talking trash to me and couldn't see the light I was shining right in their eyes. Seems the majority of them aren't even arround anymore and have given up on this game...not to mention the community is even smaller if thats even possible... Apparently it is though.
It is still 100% relevant as no changes have been made to address any of this. And the new "Fee's" are just adding to it making it worse. Funny that I was saying I want to verm and make it less painfull for others to want to verm and they were all saying you don't have to and not to verm....yet KFR ignored me and still does, and now is bitching about noone verming LMFAO!!!
Anyways enjoy the read, I know I got a good laugh at the expense of those that were so adamant about defending the game and it's direction, that are no longer arround. LOL
OMG Get a life man.
lol the one who bashes mmorpg.com yet still comes on it. Hypocrit!
I was taking a stroll down memory lane reading these posts, and I figured I would bump this so everyone who hasn't read it can, and those that had can get a good laugh about all the folks that were talking trash to me and couldn't see the light I was shining right in their eyes. Seems the majority of them aren't even arround anymore and have given up on this game...not to mention the community is even smaller if thats even possible... Apparently it is though.
It is still 100% relevant as no changes have been made to address any of this. And the new "Fee's" are just adding to it making it worse. Funny that I was saying I want to verm and make it less painfull for others to want to verm and they were all saying you don't have to and not to verm....yet KFR ignored me and still does, and now is bitching about noone verming LMFAO!!!
Anyways enjoy the read, I know I got a good laugh at the expense of those that were so adamant about defending the game and it's direction, that are no longer arround. LOL
Would like to point out any post by me (too lazy to read all this) in this thread is currently null and void since my seeing of the light not too long ago
Comments
Our entire exchange was me trying to get you to answer one question, and you sidestepping it.
Originally, I didn't have anything against you. I genuinely wanted to understand your concerns, but all I got when I tried to get you to communicate them in a coherant manner was paranoid accusations and generalized whining.
I'm going to ask you once more, answer me the same way you answered that question: In your mind, how much should a player be able to afford with a months' VERM?
If you still don't understand the question after this, I'll try explaining a different way.
And I have answere that same stupid question 15 times or more already you just dont want to have to use you brain to put 2 and 2 together....
But once more just for you...
If you play 2 hrs a night for a whole month say 30 days. 5k ses should buy you about 10-15 sets of that cheap QL 5 (200ses)armor I was talking about, and mabe 10 weapons(for combatants). That figures you die about once every other day and need to replace gear, may not even need to spend that much if you play smart. If you are a crafter it should buy you all the tools you will need for the month(shouldnt be much) and most of your materials, I am not crafting anymore after seeing these stupid times so you will have to average that yourself.
Most of that is bound to be a little off but you get the main idea, dont act (once again) like you dont understand what I am saying.
After all RB said 5k ses should last you for a month mabe 2 or 3.... and they didnt say if you dont spend any of it...or if you run arround naked...they said playing average times, you can enjoy it to the full. Common sence here if you are playing like a freak 5-10 hrs a night buying materials and everything in sight it wont last but mabe a week or so but if you play like a person that has a life... it should last the ammount of time RB said it would. And be able to enjoy the game to the FULL!!
If you cant understand this then tell me how long you think a months verm (supposedly 5k ses) should last.(what all it should buy and times played ) like I did.
Plus keep in mind I am looking at this from the perspective that people are actually playing(they arent atm) but imagine they are and we have lots of combat lots of lost gear and lots of demand for new gear.
See--there's the root of the problem. A lot of things in the armor-making process should be someone else's job. The Master Armor Smith should be responsible for fitting the components together at the end of the process, while mining, smelting, shaping strips, procureing hide, et al should be the work of other guild members.
The game is designed for large guilds to produce items in an "assembly line" type of process. A major problem is that people are trying to build everything themselves from scratch. We can agree that the game desperately needs more players to pull off their economic model, but it isn't worth sacrificing the entire economic vision for a short term gain in players.
Indeed that is much of the problem ... but it is not just gonna fix itself. Steps have to be taken to balance it out for the players that are here.
What I am suggesting will still allow the whole assembly line process for large guilds ... only in the higher QL items. The lower QL 5-25 weapons(i suggested) and armor that dont last long and sell cheap are basicaly like templates that new crafters start making. once they get good at making those they can start making the much longer to make and much higher QL items.
It dosent really take away from the game but allows new players to feel like they are accomplishing something... and not just burning wheels ... or time.
I will answer your question.
I would say in a 2 hour play session a new crafter should be able to make about 2-3 QL 5 sets of armor. And that would be doing nothing but putting it together working hard. Not gathering or smelting that should be someone elses job.
Now one QL 99 set should take the whole 2 hours and require high skills and high QL materials.(or even a little longer mabe up to 4 hrs)
I know you are gonna say, "but IRL it would take days or weeks...." but again this is supposed to be a game. It has to be fun and somewhat rewarding or players are gonna leave like they already did.
Also everyone says that the community is not large enough and thats why things are so crazily priced... this would help that we would see alot more items being sold alot more crafters working and competition would drive the prices down. Not to mention would fuel conflict for resources.
And since you lose items on death or through use players would be going through twice and much gear and tools as they are now so it is not like it gona be stockpiled they will be getting used up ... and the majority of items would be lower QL so they really wouldn't last that long.
Anyways that should answer your question ... I atleast answer each question presented I don't side step them all like yall do most the time, by talking trash and trying to get me riled up so my points get burried in petty arguments.
Any other questions I will galdly answer but by now I know you understand what I am saying, this game could be much fun if it were balanced to be a game instead of just a historicaly accurate bore.
Did you even read what I posted... you are an idiot. I never said 2-3 in 20 mins I said a whole 2 hour play session of non stop work.
I also said I know how long they take IRL but this is a supposed to be a F'ing game....
It seems that u are the idiot becuase u cant even realize that when i said " Sorry but if u are going to complain like this i think u are better off playing a fantasy game which indeed u will make well over 2 to 3 armor sets in 10 mins... I was talking about in the fantasy game....I understand its a game which is why u dont have to wait weeks and just rather a few hours which in turn normaly takes a day becuase u cant stay up for 5 hours so u go to bed and do whatever it is you have to do in the morning weither it be work or school so in turn it does seem like it takes too long but really it doesn.... There is plently of other things to do in the game while waiting for that to finish..
First off, sorry for calling ya an idiot. I am just getting sick and tired of saying the same thing over and over and noone bothering to try and understand what I am saying plus got lots of RL shit happening at the same time(sure you know how it is , easy to bow up).
I am actually a very friendly guy , would give ya the shirt off my back if it would help ya out. And in game I help most everyone I come accross that needs it. New players or if someone is being ganked whatever. That why I joined as a roman wanted to help guard and keep players(crafters and all) safe.
Now to your post...
I have tried everything I can think of in the game once... its not that fun to begin with just alot of standing arround and constant adding of items one at a time or picking them up . It would be more interesting if mabe we have NPC's wandering arround to interact with on whatever level like bandits traveling merchants or whatnot.
And ok like you said it takes so long to craft that it rolls in to a day or two if you can only play like 2 hrs a night ... come on, you have to see that players arent gonna enjoy just logging in and working on a hut or whatever (remember it not alot of fun) and then log out and have to do it again the next day and the next. If their were lots of cool animations and mabe actual aiming involved with crafting it might be different but its it not you just stare and the same unchangeing screen and add items on at a time.
And please name all these other things to do you mentioned, I have ran all over the map and their is nothing to do except if you are gonna be a hunter.. ATM. Where are these fun things to do?
"...that same stupid question..."? The validity of your entire argument rests on the answer to that question. And no, what you said in your last post directed to me was the first thing you've given that comes close to an answer, the rest of the time you were just giving vague generalities.
First of all, let me say that I'm sorry you're having real life problems, I can understand your attitude a little better if you're under alot of stress, and I hope that everything turns out better for you.
Now that you've finally answered me, I'm willing to discuss it. It seems you think that hamatas are basic equipment. I hope you don'y think it childish of me to continue asking questions, but that's how you learn things. If you provide all paying players enough to buy 15 hamatas per month, what happens to them after they're looted? What about the people who don't lose them? It seems like they would just keep piling up. If everyone has more money than they know what to do with, an inflationary economy would occur. If the items are unlimited and price controlled, there'd still be item inflation. What will VERMers who happen to be successful looters or crafters spend all that money on? What will barbarians, who don't have access to armour vendors spend it on?
I will say that I do think your idea of making the low quality items NPC sold and the higher one's crafted is a great idea. If there is ever a time when a profession's vital equipment (spear and buckler for soldiers) was expensive enough to make the game unplayable, that would be an excellent way to remedy it.
Now you say that all the soldier's equipment should be easily affordable, enough to replace many times in one month. If they are implented, would that apply to horses, chariots, triremes, palaces? Is there anything you think should be difficult to get? You say that most players don't like a challenge, but I disagree. Many get frustrated when they fail, and ask for an easier time, but if they didn't want any challenge, then we wouldn't have games, just digital movies.
And there's the issue with crafters. There isn't generally a point where you can say one can't use more furnaces, kilns, ovens or retting pits unless they have so many it's physically impossible to get to the last one before the first one's done. How do you decide how many materials they need in a month? If they have the time, tools, and crafting stations, they could churn out as many items as they want.
You asked how long long I think it should last. I think the economy should decide that. It doesn't matter if players are fighting with sticks and stones or onagers and ballistae, as long as everyone has the same oppurtunities. The game is built around the idea of a virtual economy. Players are supposed to depend on each other, and be free to make their own fate. Two things are inhibiting that at the moment, our inability to produce animal parts, and the fact that there aren't so many professions and therefore less things to spend money on. But I think that any attempt to plan the economy, except in the most extreme circumstances, takes away from the experience. What we have here is the closest thing to a true, independant virtual world. Taking that away in favor of making the game easier could do to RV what the NGE did to SWG.
I just don't think it's that simple. There are many, many different factors to consider when talking about a major change like this, it's not something to be undertaken lightly. You've clearly though about this a great deal, but isn't it possible there are areas and factors you forgot to consider?
I do really admire your passion. I would greatly appreciate it if you could answer these questions. Especially if you do it without childish insults.
For the record, here's why I didn't consider your responses, before now, a real answer:
Picture someone going to a bakery to buy a pie. He makes his selection, and gives the vendor the amount on the label. Vendor: That's not enough money. I'll need more.
Customer: How much do you want? Vendor: I want the fair price for an apple pie.
C: How much is that? V: Enough to pay for the materials and labor with some profit left over.
C: Ok, just tell me how much that is, and I'll give it to you. V: Geez, are you DENSE? I want THE FAIR PRICE FOR AN APPLE PIE.
C: Ok, how much did you spend making the pie? How long did it take? V: What do I look like, an accountant?
C: You didn't even tell me how much of a profit you expect. V: I should at least be able to run my bakery, pay myself a decent salary, and have some left over to expand my business.
C: Well... there are other ways to make more money then raising prices. Why don't you fix up your storefront, and draw more people in? V: Yeah, like I'm really going to spend hours repainting that thing one stroke at a time. Maybe if I had more labor and some machinery, but I can't afford that unless you give me the FAIR PRICE FOR AN APPLE PIE.
C: How about cutting expenses? No one seems to like that flavor, why don't you stop stocking it? V: I don't think you get how this works. I give you the PIE, you give me enough money to keep my business running. That's why I have this plan, where every January customers will sign up for a yearly plan, and get a year's supply of pies. They'll pay for 60% of it cash, 10% in store credit they'll get by returning their empty tins, 20% in labor by helping me clean my backroom...
C: How much is a year's supply? V: Enough to last for a year, based on peoples' consumption rates.
C: But not everyone eats the same amount of pie. V: It will last them for a year.
C: All I want is one. V: Then you'd better give me THE FAIR PRICE FOR AN APPLE PIE.
C: What's wrong with the sticker price? That's about how much the other bakeries nearby charge. V: What about all the bakeries throughout history that have gone out of business? If you don't pay us the fair price for our products, no one's going to want to run a bakery anymore.
C: JUST TELL ME HOW MUCH YOU WANT. V: Listen you moron, I already told you I want the fair price for an apple pie. Enough to pay for the materials and labor with enough left over to live comfortably, keep my business running, and be able to afford some additions. What about that is so hard to understand !?
If you're building an mmorpg, or if you'd like to share ideas or talk about this industry, visit Multiplayer Worlds.
Well to start, I loved the story. It very much mimics our situation and also the games current state.
Main reason I said it was a stupid question is because it is very much like the situation with the customer and the vendor. Their are many variables some of witch I cannot account for thats why I had said a bunch of times I cant give ya a100% answer it has to be balanced by the devs useing a group of testers not just me... all I can do is generalize and explain why.
I dont think the hamata is everyday equipment but a crap version that a new smith made (QL 5-25 hamata) would be easy to attain if you are verming, because if you are verming you are not a slave or a poor person you should be considered by the game a average wealthy citizen. That is if they want people to verm on a regular basis.
As for the story If their were set prices on materails and scaled craft times in the world of RV their wouldnt be that problem... the vendor would have prices on his wares low for the low QL and high for the high QL and the customer would already know the going prices based on those. The whole situation never would have happened. Everything is too up in the air in RV.
C: Ok, how much did you spend making the pie? How long did it take? V: What do I look like, an accountant? Just like that, thats why we have crazy prices because a player said wow it took me 3 days to make this, gathering materials and crafting it I figure I should get about 10k ses for this one. That player is not an accountant(or game designer) like he said he dosent have to think about all that he just knows it took him a long time to make and he wants to be compensated for that time. He dosent have to think hey if I price this really high others might do the same, and if everyone sets high prices all arround them it is gonna run everyone off. Especially with the game having a radically new revenue system. See he dosent think beyond his own loss and gains but a developer does or should...
They are supposed to be able to keep it in balance by modifying the value of verming like they said they could. I have yet to see that happen, But I see high prices all over the place and nothing to stop them from going even higher.
Mabe it is just me but in a game where items cost RL money(and they do in RV) a $40 dollar item or more is unacceptable.
This is what is really unacceptable to me their is no cap on how much ses you can buy per month so they got their own ebay gold sellers system in place, but at the same time $40 in verm is equal to 10k ses in game and that will buy you very little. You would think that if in a months time you gave a game 1 game $40 they would be loving you but here its like nothing....nothing really to show for it especailly when you realize that everything you bought in game is not really yours and will be lost sooner or later.
They have a great set up for a game right now it just feels more like a scam... all I am saying is that I want it to feel more like a game.
" I dont think the hamata is everyday equipment but a crap version that a new smith made (QL 5-25 hamata) would be easy to attain if you are verming, because if you are verming you are not a slave or a poor person you should be considered by the game a average wealthy citizen. "
I don't think that was ever the intention. A clear-cut class system might be more historically accurate, but it's not as fun as the free market system we have now.
"As for the story If their were set prices on materails and scaled craft times in the world of RV their wouldnt be that problem... the vendor would have prices on his wares low for the low QL and high for the high QL and the customer would already know the going prices based on those. The whole situation never would have happened. Everything is too up in the air in RV.
C: Ok, how much did you spend making the pie? How long did it take? V: What do I look like, an accountant? Just like that, thats why we have crazy prices because a player said wow it took me 3 days to make this, gathering materials and crafting it I figure I should get about 10k ses for this one. That player is not an accountant(or game designer) like he said he dosent have to think about all that he just knows it took him a long time to make and he wants to be compensated for that time. He dosent have to think hey if I price this really high others might do the same, and if everyone sets high prices all arround them it is gonna run everyone off. "
I fail to see the problem. That's how it works in the real world. There's a limit as to how much they can charge: How much the customers are willing to pay. All other things being equal, if there's a surplus of a good, prices are too high. Some excess goods just sitting there waiting to be sold won't do the seller any good, so they'll have to lower prices if they want to make money. If there's still demand after a seller is bought out, prices were too low. The seller will raise prices to make more money. If the price the item will sell at isn't as profitable as something else the seller can do, they'll stop stocking it. In that way, the economy sets its own prices, just by all parties involved not thinking of anyone but themselves.
No one has to standardize the prices, the individual sellers just need to decide the best prices for their purposes. Charge too high, no one will buy from you. If they do, then the price isn't too high, unless you have some means of coercing them. Charge too low, you'll sell out quickly and not make as much money.
If you're building an mmorpg, or if you'd like to share ideas or talk about this industry, visit Multiplayer Worlds.
Thought it was obvious.... Because I cared about this game. Because I wanted it to do well. Because I wanted to have a large enough community so that the game would have the chance to get balanced.
But I understand that thats not what you guys want, so whatever enjoy it how it is .... if you can.(I and a few thousand others could not)
Thought it was obvious.... Because I cared about this game. Because I wanted it to do well. Because I wanted to have a large enough community so that the game would have the chance to get balanced.
But I understand that thats not what you guys want, so whatever enjoy it how it is .... if you can.(I and a few thousand others could not)
Real life isnt balanced. Take your dreams and visions of the perfect society somewhere else. Roma Victor is (supposed to be) realistic for an ancient Roman setting. You will not find balance.
As far as the VERM, think of it as a rich family - you're born into it, you have a boatload of cash, and if you dont invest it properly, you'll be just as poor as someone who wasnt born wealthy.
If you're building an mmorpg, or if you'd like to share ideas or talk about this industry, visit Multiplayer Worlds.
So hes upset because his character wasnt born rich? Can this man NOT roleplay for the life of him? Ugh. I give up. Im done with these people.
...Back to trolling the rest of the forums. I just hope RV can get some more -GOOD- players, instead of Everquest refugees.
My new sig - "WAAAAAH. ROMA VICTOR IZ HAAAAARD!"
So hes upset because his character wasnt born rich? Can this man NOT roleplay for the life of him? Ugh. I give up. Im done with these people.
...Back to trolling the rest of the forums. I just hope RV can get some more -GOOD- players, instead of Everquest refugees.
My new sig - "WAAAAAH. ROMA VICTOR IZ HAAAAARD!"
He's upset that despite all he's invested in VERM, he can't afford to live like a rich man.If you're building an mmorpg, or if you'd like to share ideas or talk about this industry, visit Multiplayer Worlds.
So hes upset because his character wasnt born rich? Can this man NOT roleplay for the life of him? Ugh. I give up. Im done with these people.
...Back to trolling the rest of the forums. I just hope RV can get some more -GOOD- players, instead of Everquest refugees.
My new sig - "WAAAAAH. ROMA VICTOR IZ HAAAAARD!"
He's upset that despite all he's invested in VERM, he can't afford to live like a rich man.Invest in the VERM, get some money in-game. It doesnt allow a rich lifestyle, it allows for an investment. The guy probably buys the best of everything, hoping to get an edge on other players. Naturally, the game doesnt work that way, and so he feels like he is "cheated".
If he would focus more on developing his character, working his way up ladders, and roleplaying, he wouldnt have to be concerned about being a success, because it would come.
...and the VERM? That money would be there for when he really needed it.
So hes upset because his character wasnt born rich? Can this man NOT roleplay for the life of him? Ugh. I give up. Im done with these people.
...Back to trolling the rest of the forums. I just hope RV can get some more -GOOD- players, instead of Everquest refugees.
My new sig - "WAAAAAH. ROMA VICTOR IZ HAAAAARD!"
He's upset that despite all he's invested in VERM, he can't afford to live like a rich man.Invest in the VERM, get some money in-game. It doesnt allow a rich lifestyle, it allows for an investment. The guy probably buys the best of everything, hoping to get an edge on other players. Naturally, the game doesnt work that way, and so he feels like he is "cheated".
If he would focus more on developing his character, working his way up ladders, and roleplaying, he wouldnt have to be concerned about being a success, because it would come.
...and the VERM? That money would be there for when he really needed it.
SO wrong on many levels. I am upset that the money I have invested is just a waste... I should have done as you loyal RV fans said and not put in a penny...... Hell everyone should do the same according to yall right? Yall are so dam backwards its not even funny.
I have said over and over the game cant make money like that but you guys seem adamant that they can make money when people have no need or want to verm...
You think that players enjoy the long tedious grinding for skills, even tho one of the main features that drew people here was the fact that they said it was grind free...
You think players enjoy standing arround for hours or days(doing nothing fun mind you) trying to make a single item for a dam game when they could have it so that player can make it in a acceptable ammount of time if they could select the QL they were aiming for and have those times balanced so they are relative to that QL.
You find the outrageously high prices ok(probably the stuff selling now is yours or you have a investment in it) but everyone else finds them too high thats why noone buys them(or use them if they do)... just wait till they can be destroyed or looted from your merchant shop.... ohh wait thats right they aren't gonna make it that real huh? lame
Right now players are seporated by levels... by that I mean a new player cannot go out and have a good combat match up against another player unless that player is also new... skill actual player skill, should be the determining factor in battles in a game that is supposed to be realistic. The thing that makes them different from eachother in those battles or what should make each player slightly different from eachother is the stats they chose at creation the only thing that all the skill levels do is make it obvious that you have to grind for weeks on end to be effective in your role. And since it is not a very pretty game an it dosent have very cool animations the grind is kinda unacceptable for most players.... and since they said it was to be grind free they pretty much lied, cuz you have to grind each and every skill instead of just a main level.
And it is obvious just by reading the forums... take for instance a player(other than me) complains about something in RV forum, the same 10 people come in and say hey you dont know what you are talking about and you just want to change the game KFR is doing all he can bla bla bla... and KFR pop in and says thank you Zakke (hes one) well put and pretty much dismisses the new player that was speaking out about something that could be better... ( I have seen this a few dozen times just browsing the forums) It is obvious they only care about the handfull that has been backing them up from the earliest stages of the game the rest are just nobodys to them.... even tho they suggest ways for RB to make more money and make the game more playable by everyone. Where RB's buddys are content in telling everyone not to verm since you dont need to to make it in this game .... smart huh?
I still have hope that they will make this game fun and playable by average players(like they said it would be), instead of just catering to their friends or their original batch of testers that obviously did a horrible job of it.
This is the basic scenario you are so upset about:
"
Person 1:
KFR you are a liar and I hate everything about this game FIX THIS NOW!!!!oneone!!!
Person 2-9:
bla bla bla
more personal attacks on KFR
bla bla
Zakke:
Read the forum rules and try to respect the community and the developers.
KFR:
Zakke said it.
....explaining everything about the forum rules....
Thread locked.
"
In your opinion this proves that RB only listens to me and a bunch of other players. It's not even laughable - it's pathetic to even think that way.
You act like a 6-year old. Happy birthday!
(just look at some of my suggestion threads and see how many of them have been implemented.)
KFR has actually very clearly said they are trying not to only listen to players on the forums since they represent such a small part of their potential customerbase. Which I think is very wise of him.
I seen it with more than just you... most all of the "vets". But you never see him actualy respond to what the OP was about it just gets locked and shuffeled away under the rug...
Example: I had suggested to make the shield hit box and the upper body movable, much like in a boxing game, where you hold a key and then can move the shield up and down by moving the mouse...and the upper body could bob and weave in the same way. Now I got the idea posting in another thread on combat and decided(since some thought it was a good idea) to post it on its own in detail...
Well allong comes one of the "vets" talking crap about me opening a new thread so I defend my posting, by saying that "it's not too much to ask if this is too hard to implement or not is it?"(wanted to know if they could even do that or not, if not I would be able to drop it and try to think up other cool stuff they could try) and KFR just pops in and says "yes it is." And a long(seemingly rude) paragraph as to why he wont answer my question, then... locked thread.
Simple(polite) thing would have been to say , "no, good idea but our system couldn't handle something like that ." or " We might be able to do something like that in the future but right now it would be too time comsuming ." Instead of saying (in long form)his time is too precious to answer my question....
How the hell is that taking outside opinions or even listining to them? And believe me I seen it with more than just me it is pretty much anyone that feels the game should be better... Seems like they got hurt feelings(from the truth) and now only want to listen to those that are kissing their behinds...
And if they want to take opinions from those outside the forums, it is unnessairy but good. All they really have to do is use the search feature in the RV forums... They will see tons of players(with low post counts) saying lower the prices or speed up crafting a bit, they and you will see those posts and you will see the same handfull of players run them off. Saying like you, they are 6 yrs old or want to change the whole game to what they want... or whatever you could think of to run them off.
Now dont get me twisted, I still even after all that have high hopes for the game but I am getting a bit more frustrated since the only good looking game(with potential) besides this one is still a few months away from release.... And they(RB) could fix all the unnessairy turn offs in this game so simply... atleast they said they were puting in a system that allowed them to...
I'll just enjoy the game for what it is, I just found the tracks of a bear after many hours of seraching, but it's a sneaky bugger. Can't find him.
Well I hope ya catch him.
I wish I could enjoy the game for what it is, but you read my posts and you know how I feel so I just cant currently.
But I am glad for you that you can.
Mabe some day soon they will make some adjustments to crafting and the ses value and I (and others) can join in with ya.
Cuz trust me even while I am playing AOC, if I see that they made some good adjustments I would be back in a flash. As I am sure many others would.
Woohoo! New quote!!
<--------
It is still 100% relevant as no changes have been made to address any of this. And the new "Fee's" are just adding to it making it worse.
Funny that I was saying I want to verm and make it less painfull for others to want to verm and they were all saying you don't have to and not to verm....yet KFR ignored me and still does, and now is bitching about noone verming LMFAO!!!
Anyways enjoy the read, I know I got a good laugh at the expense of those that were so adamant about defending the game and it's direction, that are no longer arround. LOL
OMG Get a life man.
OMG Get a life man.
Does it really hurt that much? LOL
Well the truth has that effect ...
OMG Get a life man.
lol the one who bashes mmorpg.com yet still comes on it. Hypocrit!
Would like to point out any post by me (too lazy to read all this) in this thread is currently null and void since my seeing of the light not too long ago