You know, we can all stand here like bafoons arguing old game/vets/honor/drunken monkeys or we can give a call to a knowledgeable source and ask them just how much it costs to run an MMORPG server.
We could, but this is far more amusing.
In all seriousness, though, titles that dont add alot of new content (like almost EVERYTHING SOE has and PSOBB) dont cost alot to keep going. I know this because Sega has found running PSOBB STILL profitable at $9 a month... and I would be suprised if the players numbered 1000 still. (and unlike SOE, they WILL close games.... PSO on the cube just closed, if Im not mistaken)
SOE is running 3/4 less devs for SWG then they were 2 years ago. Less staff=more profit margin and nothing more. I don't think SWG is currently worth $14.99 a month. Also SOE raised the monthly price of Planetside. That game is older than SWG and since launch they have charged the same rate, till now. I would be very interested in the reasons behind such a move by SOE.
It sounds like a great idea to the consumer (paying less usually does ; ' ) but you still have to consider ongoing costs. Sure, after a few years an mmo publisher will make back the initial investment but there are still ongoing fixed monthly costs (server maintenance) and variable costs (bandwidth) that need to be accounted for.
And, honestly, don't knock the profit motive. You call it greed because you're on the paying side but this is a luxury they're providing -- it cost/s them to deliver and they are entitled to collect (since that was the primary goal.)
The companys probably find it more profitable to simple charge as much as they can for aslong as they can, then simply let the game die when its no longer popular. As some one said, aslong as people pay for it, they will still keep charging it.
It's a combination between corporate greed and general stupidity on the consumers part.
Just as an example i will use phantasy star universe, as its perhaps the most extreme example you can find; In PSU on the PC, nearly all of the game is client side, which is why it was so easy for people to hack, the actually gameplay with combat is all instanced, allowing only 6 players in a particular instance at a time, and there are no features like PvP that are expected, even required, in newer mmo's. The customer service is extremely bad, as many people have had thier decorations in thier rooms stolen and thier crafting machines deleveled to zero, yet not once has Sega reimbursed them for the time lost and damage done to thier characters by cheaters/hackers. The servers themselves get quite laggy because of the heavy client side nature, and within the first 3 months there was irreversable damage to the economy because hackers were actually able to duplicate items and give themselves infinite money.
Yet some how, people still play it, and they still pay the monthly fee. Thats a testament to the fact that no matter how horrible a game is, people will still pay for it if you market it to a wide enough audience. They charge like an MMO, when games like guild wars provide the same instanced gameplay without a monthly fee, and on top of that, the security was so poorly coded that hackers were duping items by grabbing memory addresses (think game shark on a console), a method that hasn't worked for many, many years on pc games.
Not only do they still pay for it, but whats worse is that whenever someone used constructive criticism on thier forums, the community ostracized them, even player reporting hackers in an attempt to make the game better. The moral is, a company could literally defecate in a box and some people would still buy it and support them, and until that changes and things go back to the way they were in the early MMO years when companies were held accountable for thier mistakes, nothing is going to change. Consumers in general have gotten so ignorant that there is no reason for any company to ever back off thier prices, because the idiots will still keep paying.
Once the game is no longer popular, the company just lets it die and fade away.
Sadly, this is beyond true.... and I speak as one who bought the game, finished the single player, and then couldnt justify the multiplayer enough to pay. Believe me, I would have if I could have justified it, but hacks and game design (I am a story player, and all the story stuff is solo... so I would be paying to play a hacked game with... myself... no thank you), obviously, I made my choice. May they learn their lesson with the sequal (cause seriously, as much as I rail on PSO (my gameplay style did not open up to many other players when everyone only wants to farm), I miss it, and damn if I dont want to see a GOOD replacement where I can actually PLAY with OTHERS who want to actually complete and rp out the game).
Yes, before anyone asks, Im ADORE a good co-op online mode in any game I play.
SOE is running 3/4 less devs for SWG then they were 2 years ago. Less staff=more profit margin and nothing more. I don't think SWG is currently worth $14.99 a month. Also SOE raised the monthly price of Planetside. That game is older than SWG and since launch they have charged the same rate, till now. I would be very interested in the reasons behind such a move by SOE.
They claimed increased cost of bandwidth.
I've always been of the impression that bandwidth cost less and less and less as time goes on.
However, there is a minimum amount of money that a server costs to operate. The price of an administrator, the price of the hardware rental.
If that price is split between 2,000 paying players, it is not very big. Although the bandwidth used is higher.
If that same price is split between 200 players, that price is proportionally bigger.
A 2,000 player costs a lot of money to run. If you only have a 500 players using it, each of them must pay more to service the equipment.
Similarly if a company dropped the subscription price by half, and doubled it's player base, it would not make the same amount of money.
Bandwidth costs would be up from increased usuage. It would in this circumstance be more profitable to run a server with half the population paying full price than it would double the population paying double.
There are other factors to weigh into the equation I should imagine.
There is more to a game then its graphics. So, no I don't think MMORPGs should charge less for the reasons you give. However, they should go down in price if their product is no longer on par with newer products. If a game comes out that has everything the older game has, that older game is obsolete. Chances are, the newer game will also offer more features.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Game Companies will charge whatever they think people are willing to pay.
thinking these guys are altruistic lovers of their customers is silly. Games are run by corporations. Corporations are in it to make a profit. They will charge whatever they think the market will bear.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
GUILD WARS - ArenaNet has a very BRILLIANT and noble approach. You pay for the new chapters, but only if you want to. You only keep bying in, so long as the devs keep IMPRESSING YOU and WORKING HARD FOR YOU while keeping your interest. If they slack, they lose out. Meanwhile, the price of the new expansion box pretty much covers what a monthly fee would cover between the months when the next chapter comes out. While GW wasn't for me, I did play for a year and applaud ArenaNet.
But Guild Wars isn't a traditional MMORPG. They don't offer free content at all, and they don't do regular bug fixes. The fact is that they don't need to charge a monthly fee, because they don't really need to support the game. Besides, Guild Wars in my opinion is not that great of a game. The community is horrible and the whole game is instanced, which makes it feel less like a MMORPG and more like a COORPG. Oh wait, that's right it is a COORPG and NOT a MMORPG. So lets try comparing an apple to an apple instead of an apple to an orange.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Game Companies will charge whatever they think people are willing to pay.
thinking these guys are altruistic lovers of their customers is silly. Games are run by corporations. Corporations are in it to make a profit. They will charge whatever they think the market will bear.
Thats exactly why its in thier best interest to lower monthly costs if a game isn't on par. The thing about MMOs is that its about keeping the player interested for months. People won't stick around if the customer support is crap, or if the game isn't worth paying for monthly. The players are the ones paying thier food bills. They should treat them like they are the most precious thing on Earth.
It really doesn't make sense if a game is doing badly to increase its monthly cost, the only result is it will be doing worse; and might be in a stage it can shut down.
I know that after the horrible Age of Shadows expansion in UO, where you could not virtually play the game for two months, they then raised the fees on the game, I voted immediately to not play anymore. Sometimes greed will be the death of a game. UO is a good example.
But I do agree, it would make more sense to lower fees and possibly get people to return.
Over time a game may recoup its development costs. However over time other expenses such as wages and overhead go up. We have to consider ALL factors before settling on the 'fairness' of old MMO subscription rates. Even then, when it comes to businesses, some play fair some do not.
Comments
In all seriousness, though, titles that dont add alot of new content (like almost EVERYTHING SOE has and PSOBB) dont cost alot to keep going. I know this because Sega has found running PSOBB STILL profitable at $9 a month... and I would be suprised if the players numbered 1000 still. (and unlike SOE, they WILL close games.... PSO on the cube just closed, if Im not mistaken)
It sounds like a great idea to the consumer (paying less usually does ; ' ) but you still have to consider ongoing costs. Sure, after a few years an mmo publisher will make back the initial investment but there are still ongoing fixed monthly costs (server maintenance) and variable costs (bandwidth) that need to be accounted for.
For those who haven't seen it, this is a good read: http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming/busmodels.shtml
And, honestly, don't knock the profit motive. You call it greed because you're on the paying side but this is a luxury they're providing -- it cost/s them to deliver and they are entitled to collect (since that was the primary goal.)
Yes, before anyone asks, Im ADORE a good co-op online mode in any game I play.
They claimed increased cost of bandwidth.
I've always been of the impression that bandwidth cost less and less and less as time goes on.
However, there is a minimum amount of money that a server costs to operate. The price of an administrator, the price of the hardware rental.
If that price is split between 2,000 paying players, it is not very big. Although the bandwidth used is higher.
If that same price is split between 200 players, that price is proportionally bigger.
A 2,000 player costs a lot of money to run. If you only have a 500 players using it, each of them must pay more to service the equipment.
Similarly if a company dropped the subscription price by half, and doubled it's player base, it would not make the same amount of money.
Bandwidth costs would be up from increased usuage. It would in this circumstance be more profitable to run a server with half the population paying full price than it would double the population paying double.
There are other factors to weigh into the equation I should imagine.
OP,
There is more to a game then its graphics. So, no I don't think MMORPGs should charge less for the reasons you give. However, they should go down in price if their product is no longer on par with newer products. If a game comes out that has everything the older game has, that older game is obsolete. Chances are, the newer game will also offer more features.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
thinking these guys are altruistic lovers of their customers is silly. Games are run by corporations. Corporations are in it to make a profit. They will charge whatever they think the market will bear.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
But Guild Wars isn't a traditional MMORPG. They don't offer free content at all, and they don't do regular bug fixes. The fact is that they don't need to charge a monthly fee, because they don't really need to support the game. Besides, Guild Wars in my opinion is not that great of a game. The community is horrible and the whole game is instanced, which makes it feel less like a MMORPG and more like a COORPG. Oh wait, that's right it is a COORPG and NOT a MMORPG. So lets try comparing an apple to an apple instead of an apple to an orange.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Thats exactly why its in thier best interest to lower monthly costs if a game isn't on par. The thing about MMOs is that its about keeping the player interested for months. People won't stick around if the customer support is crap, or if the game isn't worth paying for monthly. The players are the ones paying thier food bills. They should treat them like they are the most precious thing on Earth.
It really doesn't make sense if a game is doing badly to increase its monthly cost, the only result is it will be doing worse; and might be in a stage it can shut down.
I know that after the horrible Age of Shadows expansion in UO, where you could not virtually play the game for two months, they then raised the fees on the game, I voted immediately to not play anymore. Sometimes greed will be the death of a game. UO is a good example.
But I do agree, it would make more sense to lower fees and possibly get people to return.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR