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Double XP = time to quit
Allotrope
Member Posts: 25
The double XP weekends for adventureres only utterly finished the game for me. See, I was a dedicated crafter and at first it was great fun. As an armorsmith, I could make a full set of heavy armor. As long as I could level faster than the adventurers my stuff would be be as good or better than what they would get from drops. I really liked that. I also liked the ability to make armor with deifferent effets so it could be built ot optimize the playstyle of the folks who wore it.
But the folks at Sigil decided that crafters were leveling too fast and "balanced" crafter XP. When that happened, I realized that I would have to really grind to keep up with my market. However, grinding like that is not any fun at all, and I was falling behind the adventurers who were getting plenty of high level drops. ("rare" adventuring droips sure happen a heckuva lot more than "rare" crafting recipes)
When the first double XP for kills weekend was announced, it hit me pretty much like a kick in the groin. After all, the reason I paid my 65 bucks (game + month) was to be a fricken crafter. I just wanted to make armor that folks would want to use. Sigil just told the crafters that the crafting system was no longer of any importance as the adventurers would be double XPed way beyond the ability of crafters to make them decent gear.
I really wanted VG to be the new game for me, but the only way I could come back would be when the leveling rates of crafters and adventurers are more on par (actually crafters need to level slightly faster simply so they can make the gear the adventurers will demand). In addition, since the economy will be utterly screwed over for crafters on existing servers, there would need to be new servers opened for a fresh start.
Given the sort of difficulties VG is facing, I don't see that happening.
Good luck to y'all
Comments
FFxi Retired
Coh/Cov Retired
Guild Wars/Retired
WOW/(11-23-04/1-6-07)
VSOH/ retired
AOC/retired that was fast
Waiting 4 DCUO ,and FFXIV
I guess its how you look at it, maybe they put out the double XP for crafter to gain levels in adventuring? Maybe they thought this was a way to say “Go explore the world, get out of the crafting halls”.
Also XP weekends have become the norm, every game I’ve played has them. I’m sure ig VSoH didn’t someone would have post about it.
As for the economy, if it screws up it will be the players fault. The game provides bind stones to bind equipment to the player. I think this is a great idea, everything I own is bound to me. I think it’s stupid when people run to their corpse nude, noone wants to by your old adventuring equipment.
They're rewards for all the hassles the playerbase is having to deal with with the game.
In WoW, for the first few months they gave free full rested xp to every server several times to make up for constant down-time and server instability and no one bitched about it then. Of course, the Wow playerbase isn't the hardcore VG playerbase which apparantly thinks that you should never ever gain experience ever. There were seriously people griping about wanting to stop gaining xp altogether...to have it toggleable. What kind of mental patients are we dealing with here? I can understand wanting the grind to be severe...but come on...a weekend of double experience now and then isn't going to hurt ANYONE.
On the bright side, I'm pretty sure they said they were going to have crafting double xp weekends too.
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Life sucks, buy a helmet.
If you are crafting for a specific group of friends and they are out lvling you, tell them to slow down. If you are crafting for the general public, and find them outllving you, then by all means either speed up your crafing or wait til the next batch of VG noobs is in your lvl.
Im frustrated with vanguard myself but for other reasons...
I honestly have no idea where your coming from with this complaint... I mean this is a new game so your going to have tons of people moving up through the skill levels so your armor will always be in demand.. From your thread it sounds like you only make armor for say 12 people and now these 12 people have leveled beyond your capabilities to make armor for them... So what you got another 200 people that are below your capabilites and will buy the stuff....
Sorry man, but that has to be one of the lamest complaints i've seen regarding this game....
If you want to complain about crafting, complain about this... After adventurers obtain ubber armor and weapons they wont even need you anymore period thanks to the fact that there is no decay in the game.... This IMO is a way bigger game breaker for crafters then double xp weekends..
Where are you getting this information from? When I log on its to a populated server, and I play on two. Everyone I group with likes the game and plans to keep playing it. Anything I have read from the developers tells me their plan to keep improving and added to the game.
Or are you one of those people who feels if you’re not paying for the game will be shut down?
Is this just your OP or do you have something to back it it?
Im frustrated with vanguard myself but for other reasons...
I honestly have no idea where your coming from with this complaint... I mean this is a new game so your going to have tons of people moving up through the skill levels so your armor will always be in demand.. From your thread it sounds like you only make armor for say 12 people and now these 12 people have leveled beyond your capabilities to make armor for them... So what you got another 200 people that are below your capabilites and will buy the stuff....
Sorry man, but that has to be one of the lamest complaints i've seen regarding this game....
If you want to complain about crafting, complain about this... After adventurers obtain ubber armor and weapons they wont even need you anymore period thanks to the fact that there is no decay in the game.... This IMO is a way bigger game breaker for crafters then double xp weekends..
QFMFT
It seems not much has been learned from EQ1 in that regard. People were trying to tell the devs the same thing back then in 1999. lol
You can't have dropped loot and crafted loot in the same system without item decay or loss on death, else raid and craft gear will inevitably compete with one another. And since raid gear is usually much harder to obtain, raid gear will be superior. Hence in a world without item decay or loss on death or some other system where the player can lose their gear, crafted gear will always be secondary or worthless.
It's not really hard to understand.
nethervoid - Est. '97
[UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|AQW|DN|SWTOR|Dofus|SotA|BDO|AO|NW|LA] - Currently Playing EQ1
20k+ subs YouTube Gaming channel
Nothing is wrong with me. I have a life, a job, and I wanted to play Vanguard for fun. It turns out that Vanguard crafting is not fun. It is not challenging - not when you are at the absolute mercy of the RNG for your ability to advance. But since I did not fully explain myself, I caught some flames from folks who really did not think before lighting up.
Pretend you are a 10th level adventurer. (surely you remember being there)
What is the highest level armor/weapons you can use?
You can equip and use gear up to ten levels higher than your own level. So, a 10th level adventureer can equip 20th level gear.
What level crafter can make lvl 20 gear? Grade A "upgraded" gear consistently?
Crafters don't even start getting the refining recipes (much less actual gear recipes) for 20th level gear till they are level 21. They will not be able to consistently make flawless gear of that level for several more levels. In effect, the market for the best gear a 25th level crafter can make is the 10th level adventurerer. Certain folks who have min-maxed the heck out of their charatcers will claim to be able to do this earlier, but the vast majority of folks are not rabid min-maxers. And ths is where the "it all works out in the endgame" delusion falls apart. What level crafter will be able to make a perfect level 40 item and then upgrade it? How about for level 50?
Which is more common on the broker, crafted items or adventuring drops?
Drops by an overwhelming margin. So when those "new" low level characters come along how will they equip themselves? Remember the work order system and lack of XP for "real" crafted items was intended to prevent the market being flooded with crafted gear. The market is certainly not flooded with crafted gear, but it is flooded.
What level adventurer is putting level 20 drops on the broker in vast quantities - for very cheap prices?
I don't adventure. So I have no idea, but I'm sure it is the folks hitting the dungeons etc where that gear drops. Note that since I don't "adventure" I have not asked WTF is wrong with adventurers. But if you wnat to find out WTF is wrong with crafting, go to your chat interface ingame and type in /played. Convert your total time played into hours. Now stop adventuring. You are only alowed to craft until you have spent as much time crafting as you have adventuring. Does not sound like fun to you? Then you need to shut your piehole about VG crafting because you are not competent to have an opinion
Now I'm going to stray from the double XP to try and explain another problem crafters face. (Unless you hit the crafter forums on the fansites you will probably not be aware of this) Lets say your hypothetical 10th level adventurers was depending on very rare drops for new skills/spells. Lets say healers all had to grind mobs till one dropped a rez spell. Stop and think about that for a moment. What would be the impact on adventurers if they had to grind for 7 or more levels waiting for the random number generator to give them a defining class ability (such as rezzing for healers) Because crafters have to do exactly that to get their upgrade recipes. The crafters with the upgrade recipes are by definition the best crafters. But being the best crafter has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with the Random Number Generator awarding them the upgrade recipe.
See, some people really put in a lot of time and money to play Vanguard and got very burned because of it. Thus some people feel like sharing their frustrations with other people and warning potential players about how this game just fucked over its fanbase.
In this particular post, the original author is a current subscriber who came here to explain how Sigil did something that messed with his playing style. And true to form, the responses from the Vanguard fanboys were the predictable"do this instead, lol you're dumb, and fuck off" that they've been putting out since day one.
I don't know why people like this game, but once it became clear to me that this game was released unfinished I could no longer in good conscience pay for it. I'm amazed that people still play the game because I see it as a matter of dignity and respect. If game companies can't respect their consumers by finishing the game, then my sense of dignity says that they don't deserve to receive money for an unfinished product.
I suppose some people are so used to being shat upon by MMO game developers they just bend over and practically insert the pine cone themselves.
Nope, by forums I mean the Vanguard forums, where this topic is posted. Again, if you didn't beta test it or get a trial key you have noone to blame but yourself for not running it right.
Again I refer to my last post. If you do not like the game and are upset why not just not come to the vanguard portion of MMOrpg.com?
Read my original post agin, I stated what would be the requirements to get me back in the game. I reposted because a bunch of folks flamed or made statements completely unrelated to the problem areas - like your obsession with gathering materials. The problems that drove me from the game are all about economies and leveling for crafters. not where the damn materials comes from for the stuff that does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help in leveling(Divorcing crafting XP from "real" items and materials was somthing that Sigil got right).
I stated clearly what I saw as the problems. I did not post a bunch of insulting flames. Nor did I try to blow smoke up the bums of the Vanbois. Since Sigil has no "official" means of communicating with them you are just going to have to suck it up.
Don't like criticism based on any sort of reasoning? Afraid too many negative posts might hurt the game?
Well then do something that really will help. Prepay your subscription for 5 years. Buy 10 more copies of the game and prepay them for five years as well. Maybe you can pay other people to do the same? I put 65 bucks into this game and said "no more till you earn it Sigil".
I think the current in game community is fine, Vanguard has it's niche and it is where it will remain. Afraid that this will hurt the game? Not at all especially when this is far from the more active Vanguard forums.
It is just getting old seeing the same people whine and whine and whine. Less QQ and more pewpew.
Double Xp weekends, the weeks surrounding subscription renewal time....
Hmmmmmm......
-Allegria
Ya know whats really funny
is that all of you continue to complain about how the games unfinished and "omgz they released an unfinished projectzors" like its never been done before or somethin
Sigil has reminded us several times that its not a finished game
its not like theyre keeping it a secret. They've been working their asses off updating and and fixing the game
they had to put it out on shelves because of financial issues not because they wanted money for an unfinished game, if they had it their way it wouldnt be out for another couple months
if your best arguments to complain about a game are "omgz itz broken" even when its being fixed is just plain dumb
Well, it sounds like VG has some balancing yet to do on this issue you describe. I am not a crafter, so I cannot speak to that sphere. However, I do adventure and the best clothing items I have are made by crafters..... some of these items are far superior to anything I've been able to obtain by questing and adventuring. For example, I finally broke down and bought a 1 gold piece cloak on Friday. Exceptionally nice item. The robe I am currently eyeing is also crafted.
So, I for one, certainly appreciate the effort crafters put into the game.
You mean the 2x Exp does NOT apply to all 3 spheres of gameplay? It only applies to Adventurers. Diplomacy and Crafting spheres don't get the 2x Exp?
ROFL. Well, I guess that makes the Crafters and Diplomats the true 'Hardcore' playerbase that V:SoH is supposed to appeal to. And the Adventurers just a bunch of WoW wanabe players.
Got nothing more to say on this.
SoE has pretty much said it all.
Integrity has nothing to do with why Sigil released the game when they did, its called money. If you have money you can pay for development costs, salaries etc. When you're out of money obviously you can't do that any longer, they made a business decision that any company in their position would've done.
The Utopian dream of 'why didn't they release the game completely finished?!' goes out the window when the thought of not making the game a reality at all hits you.
So because they ran out of money, the cost should shift to the player base as the next investor?
I can understand some bugs, some level of unfinished product on release, but VG takes it to a whole new level. If they ever get this game in a semi finished state I might consider returning, but I am not going to pay to play a game that should still be in beta. I found myself so frustrated that I wasn't having any fun at all. Add to that a somewhat uninspiring, lackluster environment and it was easy to cancel my subscription.
I guess it is up to each individual consumer if they want to finance the completion of this game. I know where I stand on this..
Don't be ridiculous. This game is no longer in a beta state. Yes, it was released before they wanted to release it and yes, it still has some bugs. But the biggest issue is pending content like boats, Tier 3 diplomacy guild houses etc. that are simply not in the game yet.
It's almost two months since release and the game is solid and in a good state. There have been a lot of subscribers recently.. a number of whom I know via my guild (transfers from EQ2 and WoW). None of those folks that have joined in the last couple of weeks have been complaining about the game or what remains of it's bugs.
Of course, some people will not like the game for one reason or another.... and therefore quit. However, I really think it's beyond the point of where bugs and stability should be the issue behind folks quitting. For example, I was a pre-order customer and the game crashed on me multiple times a day and I thought about stopping playing until it became more stable. Compare that to now, where I haven't crashed since the last patch.
As others here have said, I don't expect a completely finished game. I do, however, expect something that closely resembles a finished product; something that is in an acceptable state.
There comes a point when people have to realize that some companies simply fail. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Companies that can not produce a product or compete within their chosen marketplace go out of business. That is the nature of reality.
What makes people think that the MMORPG business is any different is beyond me. Sure it's their investor's fault, and their investors should be blamed for running the company (Sigil) into the ground.
...and into the ground it should be ran. Their product is horribly broken and in a terribly unfinished state. If this were any other business selling any product other than software - heck, even if it was any software other than games - then Sigil would be getting sued by the consumers.
Instead, you have a bunch of apologists making excuses for them.
Well I'm sorry, I simply don't shed tears for them. Their product is far from being in an acceptable stage. They hit the ground. Hard. It happens to businesses. Sometimes their products don't stand up to snuff and they fail. THAT is reality.
~Mysk
There are a few who have double xp weekends occasionally but every weekend i think not, If they do then they are in trouble anyway. All double XP signifies to me is the game is in trouble and the people running it know it, its a gimmick to keep people while affecting other subscribers negatively as the OP states.