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Dear Warhammer Online,
retrospectic
Member UncommonPosts: 1,466
Please force everyone to PvP. We've seen too many games which allow players to spend their whole careers grinding mobs which offer no real challenge. This idea of "advancement" allows players to gain money, items, and levels without ever creating a challenge which gives the player the ability to gain skill. I don't want Carebears on my team.
No other game gives players the option to beat the game without facing the bosses. Lara Croft never got by with the treasure without fighting the giant statue. Link never got the princess without facing Ganon. Mario (although he did run under him) had to face Bowser to find out the Princess was in another castle. I want to fight the real problem, and I don't want to see Humans and Dwarfs standing on a line of PvP/PvE laughing and /dancing.
But I digress. I am a "carebear". I have never rolled a character past 20 on a PvP server in any other game, and I never will (until WAR). Most games create PvP content as an addon when PvE is polished. This creates elements of unfairness that do not make a game fun. WoW, for example, offers no real incentive to world PVP(besides some pretty lame World PVP Outland objectives that still require PvE grinding), and therefore there are only drawbacks. I think WAR is going to try and push the envelope by creating a fun PvP environment beside the PvE in order to drive the game as a whole. I think having a war effort constantly going is a great idea, and has actual rewards rather than gloating rights and ganking.
In short, I would like to see an MMORPG (warhammer specifically) create a game which makes PvP a fluid part of gameplay, rather than a game based on PvE and inserts and PvP game in order to tackle a niche crowd that is never appeased. I think Warhammer is going to pull it off.
Also, here's a question.
No other game gives players the option to beat the game without facing the bosses. Lara Croft never got by with the treasure without fighting the giant statue. Link never got the princess without facing Ganon. Mario (although he did run under him) had to face Bowser to find out the Princess was in another castle. I want to fight the real problem, and I don't want to see Humans and Dwarfs standing on a line of PvP/PvE laughing and /dancing.
But I digress. I am a "carebear". I have never rolled a character past 20 on a PvP server in any other game, and I never will (until WAR). Most games create PvP content as an addon when PvE is polished. This creates elements of unfairness that do not make a game fun. WoW, for example, offers no real incentive to world PVP(besides some pretty lame World PVP Outland objectives that still require PvE grinding), and therefore there are only drawbacks. I think WAR is going to try and push the envelope by creating a fun PvP environment beside the PvE in order to drive the game as a whole. I think having a war effort constantly going is a great idea, and has actual rewards rather than gloating rights and ganking.
In short, I would like to see an MMORPG (warhammer specifically) create a game which makes PvP a fluid part of gameplay, rather than a game based on PvE and inserts and PvP game in order to tackle a niche crowd that is never appeased. I think Warhammer is going to pull it off.
Also, here's a question.
Comments
I agree, and disagree at the same time.
If the game where trying to be a spiritual successor to Shadowbane, like Darkfall is, I would agree. Putting PvE in a hardcore, pure PvP game is... not a bright idea. Then again, so is putting levels, period.
In an game like DAoC, I can see it, as, at least initially, crafted goods where good compared to drops for those PvPers that refuse to do PvE content to "gear up". And crafters need mobs to skin for leather, and so on without getting turned into a fine red paste by the Hib/Mid/Alb assist train.
In WAR there is no crafting, as far as I know. And you can advance your character strictly via RvR/PvP. So, yeah, I don't see why they would divert their focus from the RvR aspect to add PvE content, which invariably creates balance issues. From a financial standpoint, though, it makes sense, as there are plenty enough people that enjoy the game world that have no use for RvR, and only do the PvE content. Or only want to RvR occasionally. Hence Gaheris in DAoC.
Perhaps they'll do a special ruleset server along the same lines in WAR for those that just want to hold hands, and sniff flowers.
Hopefully WAR will place rules that make progress require both. For example, in WoW a quest NPC asks you to gather rabbit's feet for him. In return the NPC gives you a choice of random items, one of them has "Rabbit's Foot" in the title so it makes a little sense. I would like to see WAR take that and combine elements of the war (I've heard some promising ideas). For example, In WAR you must kill enemies of Chaos and collect their body parts to place in a cannon to shoot at the enemy. WHICH ACTUALLY DOES SOMETHING to the enemy. This would involve killing npcs and pcs (maybe) and end up doing AoE damage as they land to the opposite team or their fortress...
Doktar - 70 Troll Priest - Perenolde
Doktar - 70 Troll Priest - Perenolde
You must have played SWG, then. Every bio I read was "Rebels/Imperials killed ma and pa on the moisture farm, so I became a Smuggler/BH/TKM for the opposing faction.". Unless they were an Entertainer type, then it was "Ma and Pa were killed by slavers, and I was captured and sold to Soandso, until I escaped or was set free, whichever came first. Now I whore myself out in a skimpy outfit at the cantina in Bestine".
Hopefully, they'll start doing away with the RPG in MMORPG, and just call them what they are MMOGs.
Doktar - 70 Troll Priest - Perenolde
You must have played SWG, then. Every bio I read was "Rebels/Imperials killed ma and pa on the moisture farm, so I became a Smuggler/BH/TKM for the opposing faction.". Unless they were an Entertainer type, then it was "Ma and Pa were killed by slavers, and I was captured and sold to Soandso, until I escaped or was set free, whichever came first. Now I whore myself out in a skimpy outfit at the cantina in Bestine".
Hopefully, they'll start doing away with the RPG in MMORPG, and just call them what they are MMOGs.
Especially since more MMORPGs don't have real benefits for having a good RP community. UO had seers who could bless towns and create content. EQ had weddings, and now WoW has....nothing.
Doktar - 70 Troll Priest - Perenolde
If you role a PVE server you still have RVR as your end-game ie Raid Enemy's Capitol City so every server will be the same as in content.With only 20% PVE content at high lvl you have no choice but to PVP.
Anyone coming to WAR hoping for loads of PVE end-game 40 man raid bullshit best save there money cos you will be disappointed.
WAR IS COMING...
Ghost Squad...
Doktar - 70 Troll Priest - Perenolde
WAR IS COMING...
Ghost Squad...
I don't think there will be a difference between PvP and PvE servers, theyre all the same (pve lands with pvp (rvr) zones and instanced scenarios. the only thing that changes trough your level up carreer is the amount of rvr and pve which goes to, as stated before 80% rvr and 20% pve
"It's no good coming to our game if you are trying to grow weed, It's no good coming to our game if you want to make pants. It's only worth coming to our game if you want to burn things to the ground."
-Paul Barnett, WAR is coming
Well, they aren't "forcing" anyone to PvP. You can go from Tier 1 to Tier 4 without ever fighting another player. However, this isn't encouraged, as it is an RvR game, and players that partake in both PvP and PvE with advance more quickly than pure PvEers. This was all explained in the #3 Podcast, btw.
I also don't think there are different servers. Some areas are for RvR, and some aren't. The ratio of RvR to PvE areas increases as you climb up the Tiers, with Tier 1 being mostly PvE, and Tier 4 being mostly RvR. Again, this was explained in the #3 Podcast.
Finally, "carebear" refers to anyone that avoids confrontational play. So anyone that walks into the RvR areas is not a carebear.
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
This is WAR. WAR is everywhere, and the conventions of past MMOs in regards to server type (with possibly designated RP servers) do not apply here as far as Relic has indicated.
If you want a real harsh death penalty, go play Russian Roulet. - Hamzal
Link fighting Ganon is much akin to your guild beating Ragnaros or Nefarian in WoW. PvP was the core of what DAoC was about until ToA was released and forced PvE content to be able to compete in PvP. Mythic saw this mistake and while it was too late to rectify it, they did allow for Classic Ruleset servers. I doubt they will make that mistake again.
But forcing someone to PvP when all they want to do is bash in some monsters is their prerogative. You can't force anyone to do anything. If you do, you lose subscriptions as a result.
It's like Barnett said re:crafting. If all someone wants to do is whack foozles all day, perhaps this isn't the game best suited to their particular wants. Loads of other games coming out with oodles of PvE content to wail away on.
Cal
WAR will only have two types of servers as far as we know - Normal and RP. They will differ only in behavior and naming guidelines, as far as we know.
One of the core design concepts behind WAR is that most people don't really hate PvP - they hate meaningless PvP, and they hate PvP that interrupts them while they're having fun with something else. Most players want something to fight over or an objective to pursue - they want motivation and concrete results. The RvR conflict and the incorporation of zone control handles objective and result - Why am I attacking this Dwarf keep? Oh, because it'll get me closer to sacking their city, and throwing tomatoes (and snotlings) at their king. Why am I fighting people in this area? Oh, because they're trying to take this area away from us.
The methods they'll be using to inspire conflict don't include force. Any player determined to play PvE only will be able to do that. Each zone in the game will include both Secure and Skirmish areas (the six starting zones will be 80% secure area for PvE questing, the area slowly diminishing until the fifteen tier 4 zones, which will include only 20% secure area for PvE). All PvP will be consensual. Mythic's goal is to give players a reason to go out and experience the excitement of battling real, live players without restricting them to countless replays of the same "seize the windmill" content. Skirmish areas will be clearly marked and positioned in such a way to allow the PvE-only players to look across a bridge or into a fortress and see the bloody fun their PvP mates are having without them. The layout offers a chance for more cautious players to witness and slowly grow accustomed to the added danger and excitement of facing off against something other than NPC's.
There will be "conflict quests" that have players competing indirectly against the enemy army in the secure zones - for example, one side trying to save the wounded on a battlefield, the other side trying to finish them - to give PvE players a first taste of competition without daring direct conflict. Some early quests will ask you to enter the Skirmish area to hunt for a specific NPC or accomplish some task. Later quests will ask you to enter an actual contested battlefield area and contribute to your army's efforts. Eventually, you'll be asked to go out and hunt down enemy players. By that point, the design team is confident that players will be enjoying themselves so much that they'll be 100% ready to go out and take part in the larger-scale PvP content.
These skirmish areas are being designed so that PVP battles, which can be intimidating for newer players, will take place a safe distance away from regular foot traffic, and will be completely optional... but very visible. Players will be able to play through their entire careers without participating in PVP battles (though not without witnessing them), but it's Mythic's hope that, by making PVP so accessible (and by including quests that involve entering and participating in the PvP areas), players will want to jump into the fray early on.
The starting area for each faction will be set close to the skirmish area of the zone where players will be able to immediately encounter characters from hostile armies. Since the starting zone for each army butts right up against the starting zone for their opposing army, we'll have plenty of opportunity to fight it out right from the start. The result is that most players should have a nice, seething hatred for their racial enemy before they even get out of the tier 1 zone.
((most of this comes from OWs third WAR editorial))
Edit: There will be crafting. In fact, it's a system that they're saying will be revolutionary rather than evolutionary (something they don't claim often). They've been keeping a pretty tight lid on it, aside from saying that it will focus completely on the war effort (the manufacturing, repair, enhancement and improving of weapons, arms and equipment) and that it will keep the warhammer setting in mind (no Orc herbalists skipping around collecting flowers - if Orcs end up making potions and salves, they'll do it with the meat and bones of dead animals and opponents).
It's like Barnett said re:crafting. If all someone wants to do is whack foozles all day, perhaps this isn't the game best suited to their particular wants. Loads of other games coming out with oodles of PvE content to wail away on.
You kind of missed what I was saying. Some people just prefer to PvE. Is WAR the best choice for them? Probably not. But where else can you play an RPG video game based on Warhammer Fantasy? So that right there is one reason why someone might want to play. They may engage in PvP once in a while, but the OP was asking that everyone be forced into having to participate in PvP. No one should be forced into any single aspect of game play. If I just want to sit in a zone and kill mobs for a few hours, I should be able to. Sometimes I'm just not in the mood for PvP and shouldn't be forced to participate. Should I not be playing WAR because of this?Meaning there will be content for everyone. Maybe not as much as WoWs (definately not as much), but enough to keep us non fanatical PVP people happy
As i have said in other threads forced PVP is bad, MOST people want to PVP when they want to, not all the time.
And I will be going to an RP server, the players are generally more mature... except the hardcore PVP people who come to RP servers thinking role players are push overs.... Yeah I can't WAIT to see those people meet the hard core WAR tabletop players and RPGers...
but wut if someone plays at a time where there arent many ppl online? ^_^
E^
You kind of missed what I was saying. Some people just prefer to PvE. Is WAR the best choice for them? Probably not. But where else can you play an RPG video game based on Warhammer Fantasy? So that right there is one reason why someone might want to play. They may engage in PvP once in a while, but the OP was asking that everyone be forced into having to participate in PvP. No one should be forced into any single aspect of game play. If I just want to sit in a zone and kill mobs for a few hours, I should be able to. Sometimes I'm just not in the mood for PvP and shouldn't be forced to participate. Should I not be playing WAR because of this?
Just to clarify my stance, I have no problem with wanting to take a break from the PvPing to go smack some mobs around. I do it myself quite frequently.
I think what the OP, and certainly myself, was referring to are the Gaheris type players that absolutely hate PvP/RvR, and think that it's their lifelong mission to destroy pvp because they got their regs taken in UO, or whatever. They are the ones who howl on the forums endlessly to make things more PvE centric. They're the ones that beat the devs over the head til they capitulate, and then you end up with Warhammer: TOA Redux.
I'm peachy with wanting to smack around the AI every now and again. I am not ok with people that hate pvp purposely playing PvP based games, and spending every waking moment on the forums bitching about the lack of PvE focus.