Sidekick systems: Will it be adopted more?

vajuras

I realize you guys are not Guild Wars 2 fans but I find it interesting they directly say it will have sidekicking like this game. I wonder if this will be a trend that future MMOs will inherit from CoX along with the LFG feature. Notice that WoW added the LFG feature fairly recently suprised they did not try to adopt a sidekick system as well.

Just seems like such a critical element to an MMO

Amarsir

That always has been one of the game's innovations talked about in the industry at large as a really great idea. I expect it will be seen more and more until it's a pretty standard feature. At least some version of it, with room for modificiations.

Here's how I would do it: I would tie it in to the mission's difficulty setting. The team leader can set 2 values: The player level and the enemy level. All players are SK'd or EX'd to that level (not sure if I'd have Ex's not get xp, though I assume most teams would just set at the highest player level and adjust the enemies up accordingly.)

That way:
A) Everyone is fighting at the same level and (presumably contributing equally)
No need for a mentor for each lowbie
C) No bridging for PL exploits.

and all the goodness that entails.

Javamancer

Yeah, I'm actually surprised this isn't already considered a required feature. 



I tried WoW recently for a month, and although there were many reasons I didn't stick with it, the lack of a sidekicking system was the single biggest reason I left.  Not being able to play with my old guild friends from other games who were already 60+ in WoW?  Yeah,  that blew.  What's the point of an MMO if I have to play with strangers or sync my levelling with that of my friends?  I might as well be playing a single player RPG with voice chat.



The sidekicking system just solves all that.  I personally already require it for an MMO -- hopefully the devs of upcoming games consider it as important.

vajuras

Interesting posts. I cannot lie I have been apart of SGs that did bridging to get players to level up for PvP / End Game etc. I suspect the Devs could've fixed it various different ways if they wanted. For instance, they can easily detect it by looking at the highest lvl range, the mentor, and the lackey. Then nerf the xp gain. But perhaps they left it there just in case they are actually trying to complete the mission honestly. might be hard to detect since the lackey might just be a buffer (like I used to always bring my /kin) and never directly contribute damage. I think that situation might be okay but I can see how it can suck for a Brute etc to get invited to a group and told to wait at the door and not participate just so they can PL someone. But sense this is a level based game and they reward teams for taking on tough challenges with big xp- I can see how they can get 'trapped' by their own system

While at E3 I asked Hellgate London guys do they think they would do sidekicking and they said no. I wish I emphasized all the good that comes from it (like being able to play with friends). And like Aamsir says- there are ways to nerf bridging if thats a concern. I noticed Guild Wars 2 say for Guild vs Guild battles pvpers will be autoleveled to cap and given all their powers. I think thats a good way to counter bridging exploits- because my suspicion is the biggest offenders are pvpers that just wanna hit cap to pvp at their best. But that might not be true...

nitefly

Sidekick/Exemplar is a fantastic mechanic in a PvE setting. You can game along with your friends regardless of levels and it just makes sense in a multiplayer game to encourage teaming in any shape or form.



It does not work in a PvP setting however as it then becomes tremendously important how powerful you are and it should not be possible to for instance Exemplar down to level 10 and then when you have moved up close and personal with the enemy you "drop the curtain" and engage at your proper level 30 self. It is the ultimate camouflage and it simply begs to be abused.



In City of Heroes/Villains there is a forced auto-levelling in their hazard zones ("battlegrounds") which works to an extent but is not really transferable to a setting in which you can roam freely and meet enemies anywhere regardless of levels and so on.



Any game that has meaningful PvP as a core element will therefore not be able to adopt this technique (in my view).

Beaudway

I find it hard to believe that someone couldn't figure out how to make a balanced side kick system even in games with gear and open PvP.  It's not like WoW's current open PvP system works either, for example.  When that lvl 60 (or 70 now) stomps your 20 in a contested zone, who exactly had "fun"? 

Frankly for me, the three best elements about CoX are the side kicking, costumes and pace/mobility of combat.

vajuras

Yes I agree you can have a balanced pvp system alongside sidekicking.

Anofalye

Originally posted by Amarsir


That always has been one of the game's innovations talked about in the industry at large as a really great idea. I expect it will be seen more and more until it's a pretty standard feature. At least some version of it, with room for modificiations.
Here's how I would do it: I would tie it in to the mission's difficulty setting. The team leader can set 2 values: The player level and the enemy level. All players are SK'd or EX'd to that level (not sure if I'd have Ex's not get xp, though I assume most teams would just set at the highest player level and adjust the enemies up accordingly.)
That way:

A) Everyone is fighting at the same level and (presumably contributing equally)

No need for a mentor for each lowbie

C) No bridging for PL exploits.
and all the goodness that entails.

 

Awesome idea, might bring a few problems, but definitely a nice idea.

 

The main problem might be to get it understood and accepted by the players...why level up if you can just be there in any instance?  I understand there is the amount of powers and all...but...anyway, awesome idea, personnally, as a player, I would dig in wonderfully well.  Yet, I ain't sure the casuals would like it, mostly cause they won't understand it properly and feel that leveling up is now useless.

lomiller

I doubt a sidekick system will be adopted universally, it has its uses but it can also really mess with content progression which can play havoc with a games storylines.  

 

EQ2 has adopted the mentoring system which allows higher level players to mentor down to a lower level to team with a friend and their equipment and spells all scale.  In fact it’s even a little better then the CoH version because you keep scaled down versions of all your higher level abilities, you still gain some xp and you gain full AA so mentoring down to team up with a friend can make for a very productive day for a person at max level.