Of all the things you could say VG did wrong I dont think raid content is a big deal. So a whole 20% of the best loot will come from raids. That still leaves you 80% that is not gotten by raids. I think thats a pretty good percentage in your favor. I just don't get what exactly you want from them. Im not a big VG fan but you really are nit-picking the shit out of this game. These forums never stop amazing me.
Originally posted by allegria What do you mean by Raid free ? There is no raid content in vanguard.
-Allegria
Raid content is planned and if not present atm, going to be applied later on according to the FAQ. 20% of the best l33t items are raid-acquired exclusively.
This is their worst mistake, and it isn't acceptable anymore for a "next gen" MMO, if I want to group, I have the right to expect a warranty that I can group to my heart's content, all the way to the end of grouping. It is really important that the optimal path to group uberness is by grouping, I could cope with solo/tradeskills, but I won't cope with raiding/PvP anymore...and I am not alone.
"The Vision(tm)" has to be adapted accordingly for any game that intend to have players such as me, the "PUGers-elite" (I find this term hilarious in itself ). I left EQ, EQ2 and WoW because of the raiding, not going to leave CoV for a raiding game, of that you can be sure. In CoV, you doesn't have to raid, not even after I9 comes out, unless you actually prefer raiding over grouping, which is a legitimate choice. But, you can group, all the way to the end.
In Vanguard, for about 20% of the best l33t, you will have to raid. This is their worst mistake. Now that the game is released as is, they are trapped. If they add raid-free servers, they will aggro no-lifers raiders and possibly lose more than wins, since peoples who doesn't want to raid, they already turn away...it was a release-thingy. If raid-free servers would have been present by release, raiders would have accept it with a few grunts, but they would have attract a LOT more players...it is too late for Vanguard now.
Don't know bro, i don't think that everyone that plays a mmorpg is doing this for how you call it l33t, sure there seem to be many that seem to think that mmorpgs are about l33t, but i do believe a big % of people playing mmorpgs are playing it for what it has to over and thats much more then l33t alone. Don't get me wrong but i do get a good understanding of the people that don't like vanguard in how they seem to be playing it, this explains allot to me.
Of all the things you could say VG did wrong I dont think raid content is a big deal. So a whole 20% of the best loot will come from raids. That still leaves you 80% that is not gotten by raids. I think thats a pretty good percentage in your favor. I just don't get what exactly you want from them. Im not a big VG fan but you really are nit-picking the shit out of this game. These forums never stop amazing me.
You think like a casual. Not like a "hardcore". This is where Brad and Sigil fail to understand. 20% of the LAST extra hps, buffs, stats...this matter a LOT to every hardcore players.
By making it raid-only, the hardcore players you keep are raiders. All hardcores players who aren't raiders, they find it extremely unfair and heavy...as they can't access the last, the uber status. Thereby, you have a shortage of hardcore groupers, hardcore soloers, hardcore anything else that isn't a raider...which in turn make a shortage of everything "hardcore" that the casuals relly on. Most hardcores raiders been casuals groupers themselves, they find themselves alone and lonely in a grouping game, that doesn't have much hardcore groupers. As AL and FoH often try to underline...the hardcore part of the gamers is a part you want, a part the casuals relly on...now you have hardcore raiders, granted...but a shortage of hardcore that ain't raiders. Casuals are alone, in a very harsh setting, without many friendly hardcore groupers, hardcore soloers, hardcore tradeskillers... Never shaft the casuals, but shafting every hardcore in the favor of raiding? Bad, extremely bad.
PS: I like casuals and I love to group them a LOT, especially in all my PUGs, but what my casuals friends may find acceptable, isn't necessarily for the "PUG-elite" (can't brush the smile away with this term ). Optimal path to group uberness has to be grouping...20% weaker...not-acceptable.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
The bottom line here is if you are "hardcore" you will do whatever you have to do to get loot. I have never heard a "hardcore" gamer complain about having to raid for loot. The end always justifies the means. If you think that 20% of this loot is so game breaking and you have to have it then you will raid whether you like it or not. Maybe its time to reconsider your opinion about the type of gamer you are. Seems to me you want to have the biggest e-peen on the block with out having to pay the price for it. In this game at whatever point it may come raiding on occasion is the price. I dont think its a mistake since its only 20%. Unlike WoW where its 100% and you have no choices at all.
Don't know bro, i don't think that everyone that plays a mmorpg is doing this for how you call it l33t, sure there seem to be many that seem to think that mmorpgs are about l33t, but i do believe a big % of people playing mmorpgs are playing it for what it has to over and thats much more then l33t alone. Don't get me wrong but i do get a good understanding of the people that don't like vanguard in how they seem to be playing it, this explains allot to me.
Okay let's take examples:
Casual A: A player who just play for the social fun and see folks. If I am around and mastering the game and helping him get deeper, he smiles, he is happy. He will even goes as far as telling me: You rock! Roxor it! And so on. Kinda teasing me, yet, still having a good time.
Casual B: This player is just playing cause he is bored, I offer him to group, and he was about to log off, he say sure...and then spend the evening telling casual A that I am silly, they have a good time laughing...a little about me...yet enjoying the XP!
Casual C: He is stuck, unable to beat a mob, he asks me to kick the mob...I do it with glee as I am happy to roxor!
And so on...a community is the sums of it part, each part that is missing, is critical. Casuals may not care about this 20%, but they may care about the player who do care about this 20%!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I really don't see the size of the game world as the cause of the problems this game is facing. To me the problem is just poor gameplay. Combat is BORING.
I'm about 3/4 through the level progression.. and I have yet to come across a memorable fight. Only ONCE have I been in a group that has had to stop for a second and ask "How do we want to do this?" and then only because people had hyped the boss fight for the infineum cloak quest up to be difficult, which it isn't.
Every fight feels exactly like every other fight you've been doing since level 1. Bosses fight and look exactly like everything around them. It's just boring.
I really don't see the size of the game world as the cause of the problems this game is facing. To me the problem is just poor gameplay. Combat is BORING. I'm about 3/4 through the level progression.. and I have yet to come across a memorable fight. Only ONCE have I been in a group that has had to stop for a second and ask "How do we want to do this?" and then only because people had hyped the boss fight for the infineum cloak quest up to be difficult, which it isn't. Every fight feels exactly like every other fight you've been doing since level 1. Bosses fight and look exactly like everything around them. It's just boring.
The same could be said for WoW combat yet it is not a problem in that game. This game was just not polished and done correctly. They released at the wrong time and part of getting sales is releasing the game at a correct time. Releasing during the Burning Crusade week wasn't the most intellegent marketing moments I have ever seen.
Don't know bro, i don't think that everyone that plays a mmorpg is doing this for how you call it l33t, sure there seem to be many that seem to think that mmorpgs are about l33t, but i do believe a big % of people playing mmorpgs are playing it for what it has to over and thats much more then l33t alone. Don't get me wrong but i do get a good understanding of the people that don't like vanguard in how they seem to be playing it, this explains allot to me.
Okay let's take examples:
Casual A: A player who just play for the social fun and see folks. If I am around and mastering the game and helping him get deeper, he smiles, he is happy. He will even goes as far as telling me: You rock! Roxor it! And so on. Kinda teasing me, yet, still having a good time.
Casual B: This player is just playing cause he is bored, I offer him to group, and he was about to log off, he say sure...and then spend the evening telling casual A that I am silly, they have a good time laughing...a little about me...yet enjoying the XP!
Casual C: He is stuck, unable to beat a mob, he asks me to kick the mob...I do it with glee as I am happy to roxor!
And so on...a community is the sums of it part, each part that is missing, is critical. Casuals may not care about this 20%, but they may care about the player who do care about this 20%!
I understand your examples, thanks for that, but we both have to agree that your examples come from how you persieve the game or a mmorpg as I don't see a casual as a player only to be online for the social fun and see folks nor do i see a casual player as someone that plays a mmorpg just because he is bored, help is always apricciated regardless what lvl one may be, also a casual doesn't have to rely on someone higher lvl'd then him he would like the challenge and if to hard might find him another equel lvl'd person to help along, you see both of use have different views on what casuals can be from within our own perspective. This doesn't mean you are wrong or that i am wrong, we just see things differently. But i do know this never underestimate casuals in thinking they don't care about 20% of the game cause those that play games regardless casual/hardcore/maniacgrinder, they all care
The same could be said for WoW combat yet it is not a problem in that game. This game was just not polished and done correctly. They released at the wrong time and part of getting sales is releasing the game at a correct time. Releasing during the Burning Crusade week wasn't the most intellegent marketing moments I have ever seen.
No, actually the same cannot be said for WoW. Instance bosses do NOT fight the same as everything around them. They actually give you a goal and a sense of accomplishment. Even the lowest level WoW instance bosses are more interesting than anything I have yet to find in Vanguard.
I can actually remember the fights from Wailing Caverns or Deadmines.. and I haven't done them in a year. I doubt I could name the bosses I killed in Vanguard yesterday. Clearly there's an issue.
What boss are you referring to? For the most part they do the same things over and over and over. Mods were created that could count things down for you because you knew every three minutes this will happen, every 30 seconds this happens, every 23 seconds this happens.
What boss are you referring to? For the most part they do the same things over and over and over. Mods were created that could count things down for you because you knew every three minutes this will happen, every 30 seconds this happens, every 23 seconds this happens.
I pretty much agree with everyone here: VG is quantity over quality. Biggest mistake is making the world way too big and too much for them to handle. They also made a big mistake making the game such a memory hog and requring uber PCs the majority of people don't own. General questing is dull to the core because of its lack of variation and imagination, made more so by the generic, embarassing dialogue. Combat is just as dull, auto-attack and the occastional special attack all over again: we've seen it already and VG made no effort to get on top of the pack and try to really progress the genre. And crafting...making crafting more and seemingly complex & involving does not change the fact that every item you make is a vanilla copy just like everyone elses.
Anolfaye you sorta makes me smile, that total 1 track focus, no game should include raid content... ever... even if everyone else wants to maybe have the option...
Q: What's your favourite monster in VG?
Anolfaye: Anything that isn't a raid mob.
Q: What do you like most about the game?
Anolfaye: That raid content isn't in yet, unfortunately it's coming and no1 should be allowed to do that.
Q: Which continent's ambience do you like best?
Anolfaye: Kojan, has the least endgame content, endgame content leads inevitably to the temptation of raiding content, and we all know that is evil, resit I tell you resist!
Q: What's your favourite food?
Anolfaye: Anything you can eat while not raiding, raiding is evil, raiding is the devil, 6 people co-operating is pure and holy but if it ever goes to 7 or more then that's it, game over, we all burn in hell.... forever!
Q: Why is 6 the cutoff point for all social interaction?
Anolfaye: Because 6 is holy and sacrosanct, any more than six people doing anything ever risks the very fabric of society, guilds should be restricted to 6 people too, infact maybe each server should only have 6 people on them.
Sorry for the ribbing but seriously Anolfaye, I've never noticed you respond to any thread on this forum without starting a tirade about raiding, those are some scars you carry!
Originally posted by allegria What do you mean by Raid free ? There is no raid content in vanguard.
-Allegria
Raid content is planned and if not present atm, going to be applied later on according to the FAQ. 20% of the best l33t items are raid-acquired exclusively.
This is their worst mistake, and it isn't acceptable anymore for a "next gen" MMO, if I want to group, I have the right to expect a warranty that I can group to my heart's content, all the way to the end of grouping. It is really important that the optimal path to group uberness is by grouping, I could cope with solo/tradeskills, but I won't cope with raiding/PvP anymore...and I am not alone.
"The Vision(tm)" has to be adapted accordingly for any game that intend to have players such as me, the "PUGers-elite" (I find this term hilarious in itself ). I left EQ, EQ2 and WoW because of the raiding, not going to leave CoV for a raiding game, of that you can be sure. In CoV, you doesn't have to raid, not even after I9 comes out, unless you actually prefer raiding over grouping, which is a legitimate choice. But, you can group, all the way to the end.
In Vanguard, for about 20% of the best l33t, you will have to raid. This is their worst mistake. Now that the game is released as is, they are trapped. If they add raid-free servers, they will aggro no-lifers raiders and possibly lose more than wins, since peoples who doesn't want to raid, they already turn away...it was a release-thingy. If raid-free servers would have been present by release, raiders would have accept it with a few grunts, but they would have attract a LOT more players...it is too late for Vanguard now.
Honestly, I don't disagree with the point that, everyone shoudl be able to do what they want from lvl 1 to max level. However, i do not agree that casual gamers, who don't put the time in as raiders do should get the same level of reward. The funny thing is, this is one of the reasons i left Vangaurd. It became clear to me early on that easily aquired crafted gear was as good or better than quested or dropped gear. Infineum for example, is bascially equivalent to crafted gear at the same level. So, my thought was, I can't enjoy a game ( or support one ) where someone goes to the AH, and buys an item as good as I get for doing 20 hours of quests.
This notion of I should be able to solo to max level or group to max level is fine. The end game is where it changes i however.
Whining becuase you cant have the best gear if you are not raiding is a joke imo. Raiding takes alot of effort and coordination. It seems to me the people who complain about raid items are those that either are not skilled enough to raid in playstyle or cant organize or be a part of a larger organization, in a sense solo style players. MMOs are about multiplayer and the pinnacle of that is organization of many people toward a goal. Raiding should be for the players who can not only master their class, but participate and excell in all facets of multiplayer gaming. To me the rewards should be above and beyond what a solo/grp player such as yourself can aquire.
If raiding didn't yeild the greatest rewards what is the point of an MMO ? I mean think about it, inter dependency amoung large numbers of players, competition amoungst the community for these rewards is it...
Or i guess alternatively, people can aquire the best rewards for playing an MMO like a solo game ? Just so they can stand around and say "look what i have?"
I really don't see the size of the game world as the cause of the problems this game is facing. To me the problem is just poor gameplay. Combat is BORING. I'm about 3/4 through the level progression.. and I have yet to come across a memorable fight. Only ONCE have I been in a group that has had to stop for a second and ask "How do we want to do this?" and then only because people had hyped the boss fight for the infineum cloak quest up to be difficult, which it isn't. Every fight feels exactly like every other fight you've been doing since level 1. Bosses fight and look exactly like everything around them. It's just boring.
The same could be said for WoW combat yet it is not a problem in that game. This game was just not polished and done correctly. They released at the wrong time and part of getting sales is releasing the game at a correct time. Releasing during the Burning Crusade week wasn't the most intellegent marketing moments I have ever seen.
I really don't think they would of wanted to go head to head with the release at the same time as BC either. I think it was more of a slap in the face realization that funding was running out and they needed some cash flow.
I really don't think they would of wanted to go head to head with the release at the same time as BC either. I think it was more of a slap in the face realization that funding was running out and they needed some cash flow.
Honestly, that's no one's fault except Sigil's. Had they properly managed their time and money in development, maybe they wouldn't have had to release in the direct aftermath of TBC, and maybe the game would have ended up being more polished and ready to go.
Vanguard's biggest mistake? Being connected to SOE.
For all you people currently playing and enjoying the game, heed this warning: SOE will screw you over in some desperate scheme to attract new players to the game.
I really don't think they would of wanted to go head to head with the release at the same time as BC either. I think it was more of a slap in the face realization that funding was running out and they needed some cash flow.
Honestly, that's no one's fault except Sigil's. Had they properly managed their time and money in development, maybe they wouldn't have had to release in the direct aftermath of TBC, and maybe the game would have ended up being more polished and ready to go.
Oh for sure it's the fault of Sigil I don't think anyone here can deny that fact. Sure they mismanaged a lot here and there after all it shows. Poor decision to release prior to or around BC ? Not in their eyes, it was the only decision they could of possibly made to generate revenue for them. In all honesty I think the game is about a year away from having a near polished playable version.
I agree and have always said they could have released a game a ton better if they had concentrated on 1/3rd to 1/4th the land mass that they have. Then released all the rest of the content in expansions. They just tried to do way too much in the time and budget they had and they mismanaged that time and money on top of everything else. If they had focused on a smaller area it might be another story.
This is striking at the root of the problem with the game. It is not that there is so much land space that it sucks to play, or that they sacrificed content for area. . .
The leadership did not gather enough people for a project of this magnitude. . .to have released vanguard in an acceptable MMO condition they would have needed more personnel and better coordination to execute the game in a decent manner.
You don't tout any product as being Epic when you did not develop it in an Epic manner. . .one of the funniest failures on the side of leadership was the Lore put into the storyline. . .anyone ever read the box and see the Lore nonexistant in the game?
Comments
Raid content is planned and if not present atm, going to be applied later on according to the FAQ. 20% of the best l33t items are raid-acquired exclusively.
This is their worst mistake, and it isn't acceptable anymore for a "next gen" MMO, if I want to group, I have the right to expect a warranty that I can group to my heart's content, all the way to the end of grouping. It is really important that the optimal path to group uberness is by grouping, I could cope with solo/tradeskills, but I won't cope with raiding/PvP anymore...and I am not alone.
"The Vision(tm)" has to be adapted accordingly for any game that intend to have players such as me, the "PUGers-elite" (I find this term hilarious in itself
). I left EQ, EQ2 and WoW because of the raiding, not going to leave CoV for a raiding game, of that you can be sure. In CoV, you doesn't have to raid, not even after I9 comes out, unless you actually prefer raiding over grouping, which is a legitimate choice. But, you can group, all the way to the end.
In Vanguard, for about 20% of the best l33t, you will have to raid. This is their worst mistake. Now that the game is released as is, they are trapped. If they add raid-free servers, they will aggro no-lifers raiders and possibly lose more than wins, since peoples who doesn't want to raid, they already turn away...it was a release-thingy. If raid-free servers would have been present by release, raiders would have accept it with a few grunts, but they would have attract a LOT more players...it is too late for Vanguard now.
Don't know bro, i don't think that everyone that plays a mmorpg is doing this for how you call it l33t, sure there seem to be many that seem to think that mmorpgs are about l33t, but i do believe a big % of people playing mmorpgs are playing it for what it has to over and thats much more then l33t alone. Don't get me wrong but i do get a good understanding of the people that don't like vanguard in how they seem to be playing it, this explains allot to me.You think like a casual. Not like a "hardcore". This is where Brad and Sigil fail to understand. 20% of the LAST extra hps, buffs, stats...this matter a LOT to every hardcore players.
By making it raid-only, the hardcore players you keep are raiders. All hardcores players who aren't raiders, they find it extremely unfair and heavy...as they can't access the last, the uber status. Thereby, you have a shortage of hardcore groupers, hardcore soloers, hardcore anything else that isn't a raider...which in turn make a shortage of everything "hardcore" that the casuals relly on. Most hardcores raiders been casuals groupers themselves, they find themselves alone and lonely in a grouping game, that doesn't have much hardcore groupers. As AL and FoH often try to underline...the hardcore part of the gamers is a part you want, a part the casuals relly on...now you have hardcore raiders, granted...but a shortage of hardcore that ain't raiders. Casuals are alone, in a very harsh setting, without many friendly hardcore groupers, hardcore soloers, hardcore tradeskillers... Never shaft the casuals, but shafting every hardcore in the favor of raiding? Bad, extremely bad.
PS: I like casuals and I love to group them a LOT, especially in all my PUGs, but what my casuals friends may find acceptable, isn't necessarily for the "PUG-elite" (can't brush the smile away with this term
). Optimal path to group uberness has to be grouping...20% weaker...not-acceptable.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
The bottom line here is if you are "hardcore" you will do whatever you have to do to get loot. I have never heard a "hardcore" gamer complain about having to raid for loot. The end always justifies the means. If you think that 20% of this loot is so game breaking and you have to have it then you will raid whether you like it or not. Maybe its time to reconsider your opinion about the type of gamer you are. Seems to me you want to have the biggest e-peen on the block with out having to pay the price for it. In this game at whatever point it may come raiding on occasion is the price. I dont think its a mistake since its only 20%. Unlike WoW where its 100% and you have no choices at all.
Okay let's take examples:
Casual A: A player who just play for the social fun and see folks. If I am around and mastering the game and helping him get deeper, he smiles, he is happy. He will even goes as far as telling me: You rock! Roxor it! And so on. Kinda teasing me, yet, still having a good time.
Casual B: This player is just playing cause he is bored, I offer him to group, and he was about to log off, he say sure...and then spend the evening telling casual A that I am silly, they have a good time laughing...a little about me...yet enjoying the XP!
Casual C: He is stuck, unable to beat a mob, he asks me to kick the mob...I do it with glee as I am happy to roxor!
And so on...a community is the sums of it part, each part that is missing, is critical. Casuals may not care about this 20%, but they may care about the player who do care about this 20%!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
It's more like 60% group/ 40% solo/ 0% raid
----------
Life sucks, buy a helmet.
I really don't see the size of the game world as the cause of the problems this game is facing. To me the problem is just poor gameplay. Combat is BORING.
I'm about 3/4 through the level progression.. and I have yet to come across a memorable fight. Only ONCE have I been in a group that has had to stop for a second and ask "How do we want to do this?" and then only because people had hyped the boss fight for the infineum cloak quest up to be difficult, which it isn't.
Every fight feels exactly like every other fight you've been doing since level 1. Bosses fight and look exactly like everything around them. It's just boring.
Me too!
Okay let's take examples:
Casual A: A player who just play for the social fun and see folks. If I am around and mastering the game and helping him get deeper, he smiles, he is happy. He will even goes as far as telling me: You rock! Roxor it! And so on. Kinda teasing me, yet, still having a good time.
Casual B: This player is just playing cause he is bored, I offer him to group, and he was about to log off, he say sure...and then spend the evening telling casual A that I am silly, they have a good time laughing...a little about me...yet enjoying the XP!
Casual C: He is stuck, unable to beat a mob, he asks me to kick the mob...I do it with glee as I am happy to roxor!
And so on...a community is the sums of it part, each part that is missing, is critical. Casuals may not care about this 20%, but they may care about the player who do care about this 20%!
I understand your examples, thanks for that, but we both have to agree that your examples come from how you persieve the game or a mmorpg as I don't see a casual as a player only to be online for the social fun and see folks nor do i see a casual player as someone that plays a mmorpg just because he is bored, help is always apricciated regardless what lvl one may be, also a casual doesn't have to rely on someone higher lvl'd then him he would like the challenge and if to hard might find him another equel lvl'd person to help along, you see both of use have different views on what casuals can be from within our own perspective. This doesn't mean you are wrong or that i am wrong, we just see things differently. But i do know this never underestimate casuals in thinking they don't care about 20% of the game cause those that play games regardless casual/hardcore/maniacgrinder, they all careNo, actually the same cannot be said for WoW. Instance bosses do NOT fight the same as everything around them. They actually give you a goal and a sense of accomplishment. Even the lowest level WoW instance bosses are more interesting than anything I have yet to find in Vanguard.
I can actually remember the fights from Wailing Caverns or Deadmines.. and I haven't done them in a year. I doubt I could name the bosses I killed in Vanguard yesterday. Clearly there's an issue.
Yeah, I think that is kind of sad too.
but so many people love those tools.
I pretty much agree with everyone here: VG is quantity over quality. Biggest mistake is making the world way too big and too much for them to handle. They also made a big mistake making the game such a memory hog and requring uber PCs the majority of people don't own. General questing is dull to the core because of its lack of variation and imagination, made more so by the generic, embarassing dialogue. Combat is just as dull, auto-attack and the occastional special attack all over again: we've seen it already and VG made no effort to get on top of the pack and try to really progress the genre. And crafting...making crafting more and seemingly complex & involving does not change the fact that every item you make is a vanilla copy just like everyone elses.
Q: What's your favourite monster in VG?
Anolfaye: Anything that isn't a raid mob.
Q: What do you like most about the game?
Anolfaye: That raid content isn't in yet, unfortunately it's coming and no1 should be allowed to do that.
Q: Which continent's ambience do you like best?
Anolfaye: Kojan, has the least endgame content, endgame content leads inevitably to the temptation of raiding content, and we all know that is evil, resit I tell you resist!
Q: What's your favourite food?
Anolfaye: Anything you can eat while not raiding, raiding is evil, raiding is the devil, 6 people co-operating is pure and holy but if it ever goes to 7 or more then that's it, game over, we all burn in hell.... forever!
Q: Why is 6 the cutoff point for all social interaction?
Anolfaye: Because 6 is holy and sacrosanct, any more than six people doing anything ever risks the very fabric of society, guilds should be restricted to 6 people too, infact maybe each server should only have 6 people on them.
Sorry for the ribbing but seriously Anolfaye, I've never noticed you respond to any thread on this forum without starting a tirade about raiding, those are some scars you carry!
Raid content is planned and if not present atm, going to be applied later on according to the FAQ. 20% of the best l33t items are raid-acquired exclusively.
This is their worst mistake, and it isn't acceptable anymore for a "next gen" MMO, if I want to group, I have the right to expect a warranty that I can group to my heart's content, all the way to the end of grouping. It is really important that the optimal path to group uberness is by grouping, I could cope with solo/tradeskills, but I won't cope with raiding/PvP anymore...and I am not alone.
"The Vision(tm)" has to be adapted accordingly for any game that intend to have players such as me, the "PUGers-elite" (I find this term hilarious in itself
). I left EQ, EQ2 and WoW because of the raiding, not going to leave CoV for a raiding game, of that you can be sure. In CoV, you doesn't have to raid, not even after I9 comes out, unless you actually prefer raiding over grouping, which is a legitimate choice. But, you can group, all the way to the end.
In Vanguard, for about 20% of the best l33t, you will have to raid. This is their worst mistake. Now that the game is released as is, they are trapped. If they add raid-free servers, they will aggro no-lifers raiders and possibly lose more than wins, since peoples who doesn't want to raid, they already turn away...it was a release-thingy. If raid-free servers would have been present by release, raiders would have accept it with a few grunts, but they would have attract a LOT more players...it is too late for Vanguard now.
Honestly, I don't disagree with the point that, everyone shoudl be able to do what they want from lvl 1 to max level. However, i do not agree that casual gamers, who don't put the time in as raiders do should get the same level of reward. The funny thing is, this is one of the reasons i left Vangaurd. It became clear to me early on that easily aquired crafted gear was as good or better than quested or dropped gear. Infineum for example, is bascially equivalent to crafted gear at the same level. So, my thought was, I can't enjoy a game ( or support one ) where someone goes to the AH, and buys an item as good as I get for doing 20 hours of quests.
This notion of I should be able to solo to max level or group to max level is fine. The end game is where it changes i however.
Whining becuase you cant have the best gear if you are not raiding is a joke imo. Raiding takes alot of effort and coordination. It seems to me the people who complain about raid items are those that either are not skilled enough to raid in playstyle or cant organize or be a part of a larger organization, in a sense solo style players. MMOs are about multiplayer and the pinnacle of that is organization of many people toward a goal. Raiding should be for the players who can not only master their class, but participate and excell in all facets of multiplayer gaming. To me the rewards should be above and beyond what a solo/grp player such as yourself can aquire.
If raiding didn't yeild the greatest rewards what is the point of an MMO ? I mean think about it, inter dependency amoung large numbers of players, competition amoungst the community for these rewards is it...
Or i guess alternatively, people can aquire the best rewards for playing an MMO like a solo game ? Just so they can stand around and say "look what i have?"
-Allegria
I really don't think they would of wanted to go head to head with the release at the same time as BC either. I think it was more of a slap in the face realization that funding was running out and they needed some cash flow.
For all you people currently playing and enjoying the game, heed this warning: SOE will screw you over in some desperate scheme to attract new players to the game.
Oh for sure it's the fault of Sigil I don't think anyone here can deny that fact. Sure they mismanaged a lot here and there after all it shows. Poor decision to release prior to or around BC ? Not in their eyes, it was the only decision they could of possibly made to generate revenue for them. In all honesty I think the game is about a year away from having a near polished playable version.
This is striking at the root of the problem with the game. It is not that there is so much land space that it sucks to play, or that they sacrificed content for area. . .
The leadership did not gather enough people for a project of this magnitude. . .to have released vanguard in an acceptable MMO condition they would have needed more personnel and better coordination to execute the game in a decent manner.
You don't tout any product as being Epic when you did not develop it in an Epic manner. . .one of the funniest failures on the side of leadership was the Lore put into the storyline. . .anyone ever read the box and see the Lore nonexistant in the game?
http://mentaltruancy.guildportal.com - Friendly Vanguard:Saga of Heroes Qalia based Guild.
