The offensive/defensive targeting imo is awesome. I hope other games steal that idea in future.
Yes, make it 20 times harder for a balanced system that allows Melee classes to get slaughter with jumping nukers.
This breeds lame game play, as well as attracting that style of player. Have fun in Turf Batt.. i mean vangaurd LoL
This breeds lame gameplay? you dont know what you are talking about. Lame game play is being a healbot, keeping the tank targeted and press 1 key every few seconds.
I do have to tip my hat to Vanguard in terms of Class concepts. The classes, and I have played every one, seem to be very well designed and developed for their themes.
A promise fulfilled: healing classes (e.g., the cleric) will not be healing bots. Fair to say that?
The offensive/defensive targeting imo is awesome. I hope other games steal that idea in future.
Yes, make it 20 times harder for a balanced system that allows Melee classes to get slaughter with jumping nukers.
This breeds lame game play, as well as attracting that style of player. Have fun in Turf Batt.. i mean vangaurd LoL
This breeds lame gameplay? you dont know what you are talking about. Lame game play is being a healbot, keeping the tank targeted and press 1 key every few seconds. I played shadowbane, the game vanguard stol e the animations from. Dude casters are a stationary class. That give a melee player like myself the chance to battle them. Once you get mage classes casting while moving it makes way harder for a melee to win, even when stationary a caster is more powerful. So now lets let the most powerful class move around and cast,... that equals lame in my book. But if that is the kind you game play your looking for , unbalance , noobage nukage, then Vanguard is your game of choice.
I do like the ability to have offensive and defensive targets.... of course, I liked the same thing in anarchy online about 4 years ago. The only real problem I have with the system in Vanguard is that it doesn't auto-target self. If I have no defensive target, heals should apply to me... without me having to select myself. As far as healers go overall.. I didn't like the fact that they are all close range combat characters. When I play a healer, I prefer to be a ranged caster, so I can stand back and watch the tanks do their job while I do mine. I know some people might like the close range combat healers, but it wasn't for me.
Bloodmage is an entirely ranged healer, a cross between a wizard necro and healer.
Shaman can play ranged as alot of their damage is from nukes and dots, but they have a few nice melee debuff/dots too - melee range isn't essential,
Clerics have melee damage that regains mana and debuffs/group buffs
Disciple is almost entirely healing generated by melee in practical use although they can stand back like any healer until their mana pool runs low.
It is indisputable, unless you are splitting hairs, the class concepts in Vanguard are well designed and executed. You have variety of classes with race combinations (depth) and myriad abilities (complexity).
I asked but now I state, the class concepts, their execution, their themes and so forth is a promise fulfilled.
someone link a video of group / raid combat in Vanguard
thanks
oh, and the defensive/offensive target idea is kind of a good one. i say kind of, because it allows healers to slack off and pretty much auto heal while still being able to DPS and pretend their not healbots. maybe at "end game" it'll change and require people to specialize more
i do think it's a good idea to get healers more involved in combat, as well as dps casters. I think WAR might have the right idea that the Empire healers build what's pretty much rage by melee combat to then use to heal/use buffs and abilities. I always play melee classes because sitting in the back of the party and "pew pew" ing all day would get really boring. and they don't pay attention most of the time, so when they rip agro and aren't paying attention they get 1-shotted. or they don't pay attention and miss their CC and get 1-shotted.
melee classes (especially tanks) get to see the "whole" picture as we are right in the middle of the action, we are expected to see everything, monitor and control the situation. That's why the MT should always lead a group/raid. If he/she has the chops that is.
who knows, maybe healers/casters being right up knee deep in the dead (reference to?) will help people learn2play a bit better then all the cowboys in WoW who think they don't need to learn2party
They are noobie classes for noobie player base quoted as "core." Anyone who doesn't think the same way obviously isn't a "core" mmo player. Core is the catch phrase making people believe they are elitist in mmo gaming. If running around and doing moving casting is "core" then I am glad im just an average gamer. This type of game play appeals to one type of crowd, I'm not it.
They are noobie classes for noobie player base quoted as "core." Anyone who doesn't think the same way obviously isn't a "core" mmo player. Core is the catch phrase making people believe they are elitist in mmo gaming. If running around and doing moving casting is "core" then I am glad im just an average gamer. This type of game play appeals to one type of crowd, I'm not it.
Stop the inane generalisations and instant conclusions based on myth and assumptions that you alone know what makes a game fun for every player in the world. It only does one thing and that is making you look like a pompous and rather arrogant fool.
In regards to wanting combat to become static I have to say that I absolutely do not want that. I find it more challenging when both parties in a fight has to move in order to either get a particularly nasty move off or even be able to attack the other person. In my personal view the days of "you stand in your spot, I stand in my spot pvp" is simply gone. To degrade a game into a game of strategy without tactics is in my view only half a game.
As to the previously stated oppinion that Vanguard is button bashing then I will agree that is something to look out for. I strongly dislike it when a group member doesn't know the Weakness chains and the Rogue attacks after the Cleric or (even worse!) some noob doesn't let the Sorcerer follow the Druid on the buff tree. That sucks and it forces the battle to take even longer. Players that are trained (I won't say "skilled" as that is an overly misused word, there is no MMO on the market yet that requires skill on the part of the player, only practice) knows when to follow with neutrals and when to hold their places before jumping the queue but not everybody.
And buffs does matter. Try letting the Cleric buff you and fight an even-level 3-dot mob. Then remove the buffs and fight an identical enemy. The Hit Point / AC buff, the Regen buff and the physical stat buffs are all excellent and nobody should be left without them.
I don't understand this thread. I read dream stuff and it just does not make sense.
I have no idea where you play, but if you hit Skawlra Rock (inside quests) with what you mentionned, you will die. fast. very fast if you show up there mashing buttons like a retard. You will get yourself killed. Your group will be whiped in less then 30 sec.
They are noobie classes for noobie player base quoted as "core." Anyone who doesn't think the same way obviously isn't a "core" mmo player. Core is the catch phrase making people believe they are elitist in mmo gaming. If running around and doing moving casting is "core" then I am glad im just an average gamer. This type of game play appeals to one type of crowd, I'm not it.
Stop the inane generalisations and instant conclusions based on myth and assumptions that you alone know what makes a game fun for every player in the world. It only does one thing and that is making you look like a pompous and rather arrogant fool.
Casting while moving is a huge noob additive , again since I don't think like the "core" i am arrogant for wanting a balance pvp system.
This unfair to the slower melee class, and leaves them useless in any avenue of pvp . It is a lame system, bottom line , and again only the few players who like are looking for this kind of gank system.
They are noobie classes for noobie player base quoted as "core." Anyone who doesn't think the same way obviously isn't a "core" mmo player. Core is the catch phrase making people believe they are elitist in mmo gaming. If running around and doing moving casting is "core" then I am glad im just an average gamer. This type of game play appeals to one type of crowd, I'm not it.
Stop the inane generalisations and instant conclusions based on myth and assumptions that you alone know what makes a game fun for every player in the world. It only does one thing and that is making you look like a pompous and rather arrogant fool.
Casting while moving is a huge noob additive , again since I don't think like the "core" i am arrogant for wanting a balance pvp system.
This unfair to the slower melee class, and leaves them useless in any avenue of pvp . It is a lame system, bottom line , and again only the few players who like are looking for this kind of gank system.
For anyone interested, the casters can walk backwards while casting...very...very..very...slowly. On the other hand all classes get a sprint skill even if they dont have a run buff.
I kind of got lost reading this thread, so I just post how I play as a lvl 33 Disciple while grouped. I normally group with the same people so I feel we know what we are doing.
We try to have a balanced group. Tanks, dps, ranged, and healers. First thing...the tank pulls. However, if the NPC's are grouped, someone always mez'es at least one of them so we can concentrate on one creature at a time. I use a different ui which allows me to see the group better. I always set my defense target the tank. I immediately bond with them to HoT them. Since I have to fight to cast the best heals, I always hit them with an attack that gives me hit points everytime I hit them. If the tank starts taking too much damage, I throw him a standard heal. This normally causes me to take aggro. If I accidently take aggro, I use bating strike to try and give the tank back the aggro. The tank is also trying to get back aggro himself. If I cant loose aggro, or if I start taking way too much damge really fast, I feign death. That normally looses any aggro I have. I use my jin, which is built up from using specials, to heal normally. If we are getting pwned, I'll use my energy heals. I save one attack for emergencies. If I use it, it automatically triggers one of my chains. I have a finsher that heals the entire group....it's awesome. While doing this, I have to keep an eye on the entire group. Depending on what we are fighting, I find myself switching defense targets to use standard heals or some combo I have. Sometimes, I have to take a totally different approach. I play it all by ear. My job is to keep everyone alive, and try to do that with any and all skills I can.
When I'm fighting/healing, I have to totally concentrate. I don't think I'm just pressing buttons. No fight is the same as the last. I will say this, disciples are not meant to sit back and heal. I'm 10x more effective as a healer being right there in the thick of things. I tried to deal what dps I can while healing at the same time. I have chains/combos that do different things, and some of those are better sutied to certain situations. I fight/heal according to the situation. I have to be flexable, know what ability does what, and know what special/combo is best suited for a certain situation.
As I said before, no fight is the same. If that's what people consider just hitting buttons, I guess I just hit buttons.
Oh yea...I need to add this. I don't pvp. I can't comment on how disciples fight in a pvp situation. I'm strictly pve.
I kind of got lost reading this thread, so I just post how I play as a lvl 33 Disciple while grouped. I normally group with the same people so I feel we know what we are doing.
We try to have a balanced group. Tanks, dps, ranged, and healers. First thing...the tank pulls. However, if the NPC's are grouped, someone always mez'es at least one of them so we can concentrate on one creature at a time. I use a different ui which allows me to see the group better. I always set my defense target the tank. I immediately bond with them to HoT them. Since I have to fight to cast the best heals, I always hit them with an attack that gives me hit points everytime I hit them. If the tank starts taking too much damage, I throw him a standard heal. This normally causes me to take aggro. If I accidently take aggro, I use bating strike to try and give the tank back the aggro. The tank is also trying to get back aggro himself. If I cant loose aggro, or if I start taking way too much damge really fast, I feign death. That normally looses any aggro I have. I use my jin, which is built up from using specials, to heal normally. If we are getting pwned, I'll use my energy heals. I save one attack for emergencies. If I use it, it automatically triggers one of my chains. I have a finsher that heals the entire group....it's awesome. While doing this, I have to keep an eye on the entire group. Depending on what we are fighting, I find myself switching defense targets to use standard heals or some combo I have. Sometimes, I have to take a totally different approach. I play it all by ear. My job is to keep everyone alive, and try to do that with any and all skills I can.
When I'm fighting/healing, I have to totally concentrate. I don't think I'm just pressing buttons. No fight is the same as the last. I will say this, disciples are not meant to sit back and heal. I'm 10x more effective as a healer being right there in the thick of things. I tried to deal what dps I can while healing at the same time. I have chains/combos that do different things, and some of those are better sutied to certain situations. I fight/heal according to the situation. I have to be flexable, know what ability does what, and know what special/combo is best suited for a certain situation.
As I said before, no fight is the same. If that's what people consider just hitting buttons, I guess I just hit buttons.
Oh yea...I need to add this. I don't pvp. I can't comment on how disciples fight in a pvp situation. I'm strictly pve.
I could care less if the game was pve , but I would play on a pvp server , and this kind of acrobatic casting is unwelcomed. You will see more people complain once they start getting owned.
Also the Caster would have sprint too ? So when the melee sprints, the casters hit sprint and is ables to sprint and cast. Noob o rama . That is real "core" .
Dude HARDcore is standing their casting for your life when a level 75 babarian is running at you with an axe, You have to know your character and have to know what combinations will slow the barb down and find his weakness , if you move the cast is broke, That is HARDCORE.
Vanguard is just using catch phrases and viral advertising to make it seem like something it is not. I call them on it and seems it makes me arrogant for wanting a real challenging game .
I could care less if the game was pve , but I would play on a pvp server , and this kind of acrobatic casting is unwelcomed.
Not to be rude, but this statement leads me to believe that you don't even play the game. There are servers setup for pve and optional pvp, strictly pvp, and rp.
Since you would play on a pvp server, I recommend disciple if you want a challenge. We have no skills that slow anything down, unless you get within melee range. Any caster, ranged, and most tanks, can take a disciple. Our best heals come from hitting you. All our killer abilites come from hitting you. If we can't hit you, we're screwed. Now try fighting something that attacks you out of melee range and see how much of a challenge it is. For the record, I hate rangers and all casters LOLOLOL.
I did play around with a necromancer one night because he wanted to test some of his skills. I got pwned because I couldn't hit him thus I was out of energy before I knew it. Out of all the healer classes, disciples are underdawgs. There is no sitting back and pwning anything. It takes skill to be an effective disciple.
I left Vg for a while a month after release for the usual reasons. But I am hoping it gets better so i can return to my BloodMage. Absolutely, no question the best healer class i have played in an MMO. Others - eq2- Fury WoW - Druid / Priest
Bloodmage is a fantastic class. -Allegria
Of course it is the best you played, cause no other game is going to let people run around casting spells like a d grade Asian mmo.
That comment makes no sense. Vanguard is a mess for sure, they didn't deliver alot of what they were supposed to. However, the classes in the game are interesting and fun. Sadly that is where my praise of Vanguard ends.
The Bloodmage has nothing to do with running while casting if that is what you are getting at, the design of the class is fantastic and a fabulous healer class.
If they fixed alot of the content and bugs, adjusted the bloated impact crafting has on the game, i might go back, but for now i am looking forward to Friday and LOTRO !
my posts are a generalization of casting classes l, if you cast you should be not moving. Think it is lame, thats my opinion and my last post on the topic.
However, the classes in the game are interesting and fun.
-Allegria
I am in agreement that the classes are both interesting and fun.
It is at least one feature of the game that is indisputably positive. Do you think the nerfing will enhance or undermine this positive feature? As with my Cleric, I found both negative and (fair) positive changes.
I appreciate everyone's thoughtful comments. Great discussion.
However, the classes in the game are interesting and fun.
-Allegria
I am in agreement that the classes are both interesting and fun.
It is at least one feature of the game that is indisputably positive. Do you think the nerfing will enhance or undermine this positive feature? As with my Cleric, I found both negative and (fair) positive changes.
my posts are a generalization of casting classes l, if you cast you should be not moving. Think it is lame, thats my opinion and my last post on the topic.
Basically put: If you simply want to state your opinion about something, do it. If you only wrote what you wrote in this post nobody would have cared about you. Personal opinion, who cares.
The problem arises when you automatically describe everybody else as inferior for not sharing your view.
I want all the options in PvP. I want the primarily melee character to be able to run around the caster, I want the caster to be carefully able to move around. What I do NOT want is predictability. The melee character should not see the caster as an easy mark simply because the caster is in the middle of casting a spell, he should be wary and watchful while considering whether or not he should attack or not. Likewise the caster, he can move at 1/6 normal move rate, yes, but he can't sprint and all the melee character has to do in order to screw up his efforts is watch the animation (the animation for each spell has a complete cycle in Vanguard, if you're interrupted, the cycle will also be interrupted, once the cycle ends, the spells gets cast). So when the cycle is almost at at end, he interrupts the casting or moves out of the caster's Line of Sight.
EQ Combat fun? The EQ combat system is a dinosaur compared to most games now. All classes are reduced to one or two keys to mash the entire fight, much like WoW. The entire game is tank and spank. I am not saying it isn't a fun game for those who enjoy it, but it would be hard to find a combat system more dumbed down than EQ's.
Saying a game sucks because there isn't a complete heal is about the most uneducated statement ever made. Complete heal was perhaps the most game unbalancing spell EVER created in any MMO. Every single EQ raid for how many years was balanced and revolved around that one single spell?
I dunno what game Drea-mer was playing but in vanguard the game I play a cleric where I have 3 rows of abilities almost all of which I will use over the course of a single battle.
But its not just mashing. If I dont press them in the correct order at the right time EVERYONE DIES.
Just because you played a DPS class and didnt think it mattered what you did since you were just doing damage doesnt mean everyone else isnt working hard to keep your lazy unappreciative behind alive and fixing your mistakes.
Sometimes you get a PUG of people who dont know what theyre doing but usually those wipe very quickly unless they are doing two dots or something.
For 4 dots and higher you need a balanced group of players that know what they are doing.
Everything you need to know about what other players in the group are doing is right there on the screen. Just because you dont understand what the other classes are doing doesnt mean they arent working together and reacting to each other.
Last group I was in we were doing CiS ageless the tank would pull unless there were two close together then he would say my name I would step up and lull one the bard would assist my target and bow pull it immediately afterwards then the tank would taunt it as it ran past. The psi would mez first add if one came and the bard would charm a second add if things went really bad and sic it on the main pull. The bloodmage was on dps and emergency healing and kept the groups health pools linked so I could group heal (since cleric group heals are massive) once or twice a pull and the necro was using their pet for off tank when charm wore off, did DPS and was emergency fear kiter to keep a 4th occupied if the pull went horribly horribly wrong.
None of it was organized we didnt sit down around the campfire and lay down a plan we just did our jobs and expected others to do theirs we watched what everyone was doing and adjusted our tactics to fill in any gaps.
As for being able to cast while moving in pvp.. thats only really an advantage if your moving faster than molasses in winter. The melee class can run rings around the caster moving at 10% of his speed.
If anything the caster is at a disadvantage since you can melee without a movement penalty.
Yes. The combat system in EQ is dinosaur, but at least I could drink a cup of coffee and talk on AIM while playing. Yes. I like to do things while playing games other then being so warped in playing. But that is just ME. How do you all feel?
The new games want me to be so focused on mashing buttons that it can undermine fun.
Nevertheless, to the original point, the classes in Vanguard are great; the healers are fun to play and are not healing bots; and the combat and defensive target is a positive innovation.
Comments
This breeds lame game play, as well as attracting that style of player. Have fun in Turf Batt.. i mean vangaurd LoL
This breeds lame gameplay? you dont know what you are talking about. Lame game play is being a healbot, keeping the tank targeted and press 1 key every few seconds.
A promise fulfilled: healing classes (e.g., the cleric) will not be healing bots. Fair to say that?
What do you think?
This breeds lame game play, as well as attracting that style of player. Have fun in Turf Batt.. i mean vangaurd LoL
This breeds lame gameplay? you dont know what you are talking about. Lame game play is being a healbot, keeping the tank targeted and press 1 key every few seconds. I played shadowbane, the game vanguard stol e the animations from. Dude casters are a stationary class. That give a melee player like myself the chance to battle them. Once you get mage classes casting while moving it makes way harder for a melee to win, even when stationary a caster is more powerful. So now lets let the most powerful class move around and cast,... that equals lame in my book. But if that is the kind you game play your looking for , unbalance , noobage nukage, then Vanguard is your game of choice.
I like pie !
I asked but now I state, the class concepts, their execution, their themes and so forth is a promise fulfilled.
i'm confused
someone link a video of group / raid combat in Vanguard
thanks
oh, and the defensive/offensive target idea is kind of a good one. i say kind of, because it allows healers to slack off and pretty much auto heal while still being able to DPS and pretend their not healbots. maybe at "end game" it'll change and require people to specialize more
i do think it's a good idea to get healers more involved in combat, as well as dps casters. I think WAR might have the right idea that the Empire healers build what's pretty much rage by melee combat to then use to heal/use buffs and abilities. I always play melee classes because sitting in the back of the party and "pew pew" ing all day would get really boring. and they don't pay attention most of the time, so when they rip agro and aren't paying attention they get 1-shotted. or they don't pay attention and miss their CC and get 1-shotted.
melee classes (especially tanks) get to see the "whole" picture as we are right in the middle of the action, we are expected to see everything, monitor and control the situation. That's why the MT should always lead a group/raid. If he/she has the chops that is.
who knows, maybe healers/casters being right up knee deep in the dead (reference to?) will help people learn2play a bit better then all the cowboys in WoW who think they don't need to learn2party
I like pie !
Stop the inane generalisations and instant conclusions based on myth and assumptions that you alone know what makes a game fun for every player in the world. It only does one thing and that is making you look like a pompous and rather arrogant fool.
In regards to wanting combat to become static I have to say that I absolutely do not want that. I find it more challenging when both parties in a fight has to move in order to either get a particularly nasty move off or even be able to attack the other person. In my personal view the days of "you stand in your spot, I stand in my spot pvp" is simply gone. To degrade a game into a game of strategy without tactics is in my view only half a game.
As to the previously stated oppinion that Vanguard is button bashing then I will agree that is something to look out for. I strongly dislike it when a group member doesn't know the Weakness chains and the Rogue attacks after the Cleric or (even worse!) some noob doesn't let the Sorcerer follow the Druid on the buff tree. That sucks and it forces the battle to take even longer. Players that are trained (I won't say "skilled" as that is an overly misused word, there is no MMO on the market yet that requires skill on the part of the player, only practice) knows when to follow with neutrals and when to hold their places before jumping the queue but not everybody.
And buffs does matter. Try letting the Cleric buff you and fight an even-level 3-dot mob. Then remove the buffs and fight an identical enemy. The Hit Point / AC buff, the Regen buff and the physical stat buffs are all excellent and nobody should be left without them.
I have no idea where you play, but if you hit Skawlra Rock (inside quests) with what you mentionned, you will die. fast. very fast if you show up there mashing buttons like a retard. You will get yourself killed. Your group will be whiped in less then 30 sec.
eqnext.wikia.com
Stop the inane generalisations and instant conclusions based on myth and assumptions that you alone know what makes a game fun for every player in the world. It only does one thing and that is making you look like a pompous and rather arrogant fool.
Casting while moving is a huge noob additive , again since I don't think like the "core" i am arrogant for wanting a balance pvp system.This unfair to the slower melee class, and leaves them useless in any avenue of pvp . It is a lame system, bottom line , and again only the few players who like are looking for this kind of gank system.
I like pie !
Stop the inane generalisations and instant conclusions based on myth and assumptions that you alone know what makes a game fun for every player in the world. It only does one thing and that is making you look like a pompous and rather arrogant fool.
Casting while moving is a huge noob additive , again since I don't think like the "core" i am arrogant for wanting a balance pvp system.This unfair to the slower melee class, and leaves them useless in any avenue of pvp . It is a lame system, bottom line , and again only the few players who like are looking for this kind of gank system.
For anyone interested, the casters can walk backwards while casting...very...very..very...slowly. On the other hand all classes get a sprint skill even if they dont have a run buff.
Yeh, real noobish
We try to have a balanced group. Tanks, dps, ranged, and healers. First thing...the tank pulls. However, if the NPC's are grouped, someone always mez'es at least one of them so we can concentrate on one creature at a time. I use a different ui which allows me to see the group better. I always set my defense target the tank. I immediately bond with them to HoT them. Since I have to fight to cast the best heals, I always hit them with an attack that gives me hit points everytime I hit them. If the tank starts taking too much damage, I throw him a standard heal. This normally causes me to take aggro. If I accidently take aggro, I use bating strike to try and give the tank back the aggro. The tank is also trying to get back aggro himself. If I cant loose aggro, or if I start taking way too much damge really fast, I feign death. That normally looses any aggro I have. I use my jin, which is built up from using specials, to heal normally. If we are getting pwned, I'll use my energy heals. I save one attack for emergencies. If I use it, it automatically triggers one of my chains. I have a finsher that heals the entire group....it's awesome. While doing this, I have to keep an eye on the entire group. Depending on what we are fighting, I find myself switching defense targets to use standard heals or some combo I have. Sometimes, I have to take a totally different approach. I play it all by ear. My job is to keep everyone alive, and try to do that with any and all skills I can.
When I'm fighting/healing, I have to totally concentrate. I don't think I'm just pressing buttons. No fight is the same as the last. I will say this, disciples are not meant to sit back and heal. I'm 10x more effective as a healer being right there in the thick of things. I tried to deal what dps I can while healing at the same time. I have chains/combos that do different things, and some of those are better sutied to certain situations. I fight/heal according to the situation. I have to be flexable, know what ability does what, and know what special/combo is best suited for a certain situation.
As I said before, no fight is the same. If that's what people consider just hitting buttons, I guess I just hit buttons.
Oh yea...I need to add this. I don't pvp. I can't comment on how disciples fight in a pvp situation. I'm strictly pve.
/2 cents added
eqnext.wikia.com
Also the Caster would have sprint too ? So when the melee sprints, the casters hit sprint and is ables to sprint and cast. Noob o rama . That is real "core" .
Dude HARDcore is standing their casting for your life when a level 75 babarian is running at you with an axe, You have to know your character and have to know what combinations will slow the barb down and find his weakness , if you move the cast is broke, That is HARDCORE.
Vanguard is just using catch phrases and viral advertising to make it seem like something it is not. I call them on it and seems it makes me arrogant for wanting a real challenging game .
I like pie !
Since you would play on a pvp server, I recommend disciple if you want a challenge. We have no skills that slow anything down, unless you get within melee range. Any caster, ranged, and most tanks, can take a disciple. Our best heals come from hitting you. All our killer abilites come from hitting you. If we can't hit you, we're screwed. Now try fighting something that attacks you out of melee range and see how much of a challenge it is. For the record, I hate rangers and all casters LOLOLOL.
I did play around with a necromancer one night because he wanted to test some of his skills. I got pwned because I couldn't hit him thus I was out of energy before I knew it. Out of all the healer classes, disciples are underdawgs. There is no sitting back and pwning anything. It takes skill to be an effective disciple.
That comment makes no sense. Vanguard is a mess for sure, they didn't deliver alot of what they were supposed to. However, the classes in the game are interesting and fun. Sadly that is where my praise of Vanguard ends.
The Bloodmage has nothing to do with running while casting if that is what you are getting at, the design of the class is fantastic and a fabulous healer class.
If they fixed alot of the content and bugs, adjusted the bloated impact crafting has on the game, i might go back, but for now i am looking forward to Friday and LOTRO !
-Allegria
I like pie !
I am in agreement that the classes are both interesting and fun.
It is at least one feature of the game that is indisputably positive. Do you think the nerfing will enhance or undermine this positive feature? As with my Cleric, I found both negative and (fair) positive changes.
I appreciate everyone's thoughtful comments. Great discussion.
I am in agreement that the classes are both interesting and fun.
It is at least one feature of the game that is indisputably positive. Do you think the nerfing will enhance or undermine this positive feature? As with my Cleric, I found both negative and (fair) positive changes.
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who me ?
The problem arises when you automatically describe everybody else as inferior for not sharing your view.
I want all the options in PvP. I want the primarily melee character to be able to run around the caster, I want the caster to be carefully able to move around. What I do NOT want is predictability. The melee character should not see the caster as an easy mark simply because the caster is in the middle of casting a spell, he should be wary and watchful while considering whether or not he should attack or not. Likewise the caster, he can move at 1/6 normal move rate, yes, but he can't sprint and all the melee character has to do in order to screw up his efforts is watch the animation (the animation for each spell has a complete cycle in Vanguard, if you're interrupted, the cycle will also be interrupted, once the cycle ends, the spells gets cast). So when the cycle is almost at at end, he interrupts the casting or moves out of the caster's Line of Sight.
Tactics. Any day.
Strategy is not enough.
I don't see how this "defensive" and "offensive" target is much different to EQ2's targeting.
Primary Target and Target's Target.
So if your a healer you can target the MT, heal him while sending any offensive spells through him to hit whatever he has targeted.
Or you can target the mob and send heals through the mob to whatever the mob has targeted, while using offensive spells on him.
Saying a game sucks because there isn't a complete heal is about the most uneducated statement ever made. Complete heal was perhaps the most game unbalancing spell EVER created in any MMO. Every single EQ raid for how many years was balanced and revolved around that one single spell?
But its not just mashing. If I dont press them in the correct order at the right time EVERYONE DIES.
Just because you played a DPS class and didnt think it mattered what you did since you were just doing damage doesnt mean everyone else isnt working hard to keep your lazy unappreciative behind alive and fixing your mistakes.
Sometimes you get a PUG of people who dont know what theyre doing but usually those wipe very quickly unless they are doing two dots or something.
For 4 dots and higher you need a balanced group of players that know what they are doing.
Everything you need to know about what other players in the group are doing is right there on the screen. Just because you dont understand what the other classes are doing doesnt mean they arent working together and reacting to each other.
Last group I was in we were doing CiS ageless the tank would pull unless there were two close together then he would say my name I would step up and lull one the bard would assist my target and bow pull it immediately afterwards then the tank would taunt it as it ran past. The psi would mez first add if one came and the bard would charm a second add if things went really bad and sic it on the main pull. The bloodmage was on dps and emergency healing and kept the groups health pools linked so I could group heal (since cleric group heals are massive) once or twice a pull and the necro was using their pet for off tank when charm wore off, did DPS and was emergency fear kiter to keep a 4th occupied if the pull went horribly horribly wrong.
None of it was organized we didnt sit down around the campfire and lay down a plan we just did our jobs and expected others to do theirs we watched what everyone was doing and adjusted our tactics to fill in any gaps.
As for being able to cast while moving in pvp.. thats only really an advantage if your moving faster than molasses in winter. The melee class can run rings around the caster moving at 10% of his speed.
If anything the caster is at a disadvantage since you can melee without a movement penalty.
The new games want me to be so focused on mashing buttons that it can undermine fun.
Nevertheless, to the original point, the classes in Vanguard are great; the healers are fun to play and are not healing bots; and the combat and defensive target is a positive innovation.
Great posts by all.