Age of Conan: Outside the Box: Combat in Age of Conan

Stradden

News Editor Garrett Fuller returns with his weekly "Outside the Box" column. This week, Garrett looks at combat in MMORPGs, specifically the comabt in the upcoming Age of Conan.

One of the biggest complaints in MMOs for me is the combat. Up until now we have seen very basic combat systems in place for players. If you are playing a caster you run away, stop, throw a spell, and run some more until your opponent drops. If you are a tank you run up to the target, get a lock, start swinging and hit as many hot keys as you can to hit with your combos. Targeting is always easy, instead of actually missing, the game misses for you. The actually fight sometimes tends to get a bit boring. So how do we spice thing up? What type of interface can we give players to really make them feel like they are in combat? Well, steps are being taking in that direction with several games, but I wanted to draw attention to Age of Conan as a great example of creating a more realistic fighting experience.

Read the whole column here.

BadSpock

Though it does sound more exciting and fun... what happens when you have 50+ players on screen at once in a raid/pvp environment? I'm sure all the fights they've been showing off are small, single engagements.

I'd LOVE to see if they can make large scale combat possible with such a system, you know, as it is suppose to be a Massively Multiplayer online role playing game. Or is it going to be a game of many, small 5vs5 or so fights? Kind of takes the MM out of MMORPG to me...

That kind of combat has it's place, in games like God of War or the fighting games you mentioned, howerver, for an MMO, look at ANY mmo that has had such a complex, twitch based combat system. Now look where that MMO is now.

I hope they overcome the history of failures that have prevented this kind of thing from working before, but it's Funcom, so I doubt it.

vingvega

I'll tell yeah what.  If this game ends up like Mortal Combat where you have to hit (M, K, ESC, return, return or any other series of hurry and mash buttons in sequence in an assosiated time) to do a finishing type move or combat i'm not playing it.  If you want to change the combat, fine.  If you want to make it a pain in the butt to do anything, then you can keep this game, i'll go with warhammer.  Why not change things people want changed in an MMO? So what if people end up just macroing finishing moves or combat? What's the purpose?  I know when i'm fighting 5 people or mobs, I don't want to worry about getting the right sequence of key mashes to initiate a certain attack.  Just my opinion...but if it's like those fighter games in the arcade, i'm going to have to pass.

checkthis500

Had to point this out, but in the article it says "You can duck attacks" which makes it seem like an active skill.



From the FAQ:



"2.9 Will there be dodging or blocking in the game?

There is dodging, yes, but you don’t actually hit a dodge or block button to prevent strikes from hitting you. These are character skills and whether or not you avoid hits are determined from calculations going on in the background. You will be able to step back though, and use the terrain to your advantage by running behind things and so on. It is very dynamic."



So the stepping back part is right, but saying you're able to dodge the attacks makes it sound active, and it's in fact a passive thing.  There is no way to "duck" from attacks unless the programming decides you rolled a "dodge" roll.



You can step back, but after watching the vids I don't think that will be very effective, since it appears that stepping back is very slow.  Maybe if there's a few buttons to jump back or jump to the side it would solve this inability to control the defense aspects.

Panossian

I have a feeling this is going to be a twitch fest that will get frustrating in large scale battles. Also have to remember this is a console game, this isnt designed just for PC gamers so Im sure there will be "Mortal Kombat" type combos and attacks that can easily be done with a gamepad. I think they even mentioned this a couple times in the past. They might be swapping, what they are calling a "basic" combat system, for an annoying combat system. I know I dont want to feel as though Ive been playing a fighting game for hours on end playing an MMO. Obviously this is just speculation.

different

The plain old stand still and wait was done away with in DDO, and combat in that game was good.



Unfortunately with AoC also being a console game it could very well end up a gamepad type game

Thos

If the combat is like DDO I'm game. If its like Mortal Kombat, haha no!

 

Perko

As many people will be turned away by this sort of combat as will be attracted by it.  I don't think many MMORPG players are big fans of console style action gaming.  I know I am not.  Even "light" versions of that, such as those in D&DO or Oblivion, always draw howls of protest from a certain segment of players.  I'm all for variety, and there is certainly a group of people that will enjoy this, but it's not likely to be for me.  Hopefully I will be able to give it a shot in an open beta or free trial.



Then there is the whole issue of its practicality.  LotRO held it's closed beta end-of-the-world "event".  Even with all my graphical settings at minimum, there were so many people crowded in one area, that all combat against the typical waves of uber-monsters was basically a slide show.  As soon as you get into any sort of complex large scale battle, twitch combat systems fall apart, you can't react with that much lag and that low a frame rate.  This happens in even the best engineered games, it's the reality of online communications.

Sinuous

I predict that AoC will be hated by the tubs-o'-lard who like eating their cookies and cakes while executing macros every 2-3 minutes.  As for those individuals looking for a more engaging mmorpg experience.........this game is for you.

Arkane11

It is not like MK lol and the combat is a lot easier to get used to than you would think. Watch one of the dev videos where he makes his character level 32 and goes around killing level 12-15 mobs. In that video he states that the game itself will help you come up with combos.

DarwynFOUR

So doing combos is button mashing? fighting games are button mashers? The most dumbed down basic fighting game takes more skill than every mmo out there put together.Math class won't help you in fighting games.

Taek

Iv been very interested in this game since November 06, and over the months done alot of research and so far only seen some very promising aspects to the game, but i also agree if who are having to hit a combination of keys to perform an attack it may ruin the game, but when i looked at a video which played at E3 the person who was in combat didnt seem to be button bashing i agree it was along time ago but it didnt seem to difficult, may if one of the producers could reply to this and actually state whether the game does require a series of keys to create an attack or whether the dodge is luck (like WoW) then it would be great.

Arkane11

Originally posted by Taek


Iv been very interested in this game since November 06, and over the months done alot of research and so far only seen some very promising aspects to the game, but i also agree if who are having to hit a combination of keys to perform an attack it may ruin the game, but when i looked at a video which played at E3 the person who was in combat didnt seem to be button bashing i agree it was along time ago but it didnt seem to difficult, may if one of the producers could reply to this and actually state whether the game does require a series of keys to create an attack or whether the dodge is luck (like WoW) then it would be great.

Dodge is based on luck like in WoW. You do not need to button mash to do combos.

DarwynFOUR

Man, look at you people.You're so used to setting up your cool macros and hitting those F keys that you refuse to try anything new.ha ha ha am i glad PC gaming is dead.

 

 

Domtrain

Man i read this all and all you say is bullshit did any of you read any thing more on AOC ???

1. This is not a console game that they make on PC to, its other way around

2. there will be lare scale battles , (players can build player towns [ Battle Keeps] and other can try to smash them)

3. ther is a colide system (so you can go thru a palyer and viceversa, and there will be formaton system that will get you buffs and so. On large scale battles there wont be many single players running and less chaotic sige becouse they will be a easy target fot archer formation 

whitedelight

First, PC gaming will never be dead because consoles can only upgrade so much once they are put out in the market and the pc can be upgraded all the time.

Next, as you can see http://aodpvp.com/forums/

We have people in the beta who made this video http://youtube.com/watch?v=ytsp5YVRHq8

Generating combos is not difficult, and dodge and the like are still like previous MMOs where you base it on luck.

DarwynFOUR

Originally posted by whitedelight


First, PC gaming will never be dead .

Denial.

mindspat

I would play it if there were button-combo's on an Xbox360 controller. 

It's been stated that one of the dilema's of cross console-PC gaming is the advantage that a PC gamer has over the console player through use of a mouse and keyboard interface.  Some developers are going as far as to instill controll penalties in PC versions to compensate and facilitate "fairness".  Watch out for those games, Microsoft's "Shadowrun" is to implement this penalty-balance type of control system; good genre ruined by Microsoft.

I would suspect that FunCom would implement a means to provide for an equal advantage based upon the choice of controls regardless of the platform.  Since the 360 can be used with a keyboard and mouse, and a controler with a PC, it seems logical that there will be a few different control schemes availble to chose from.

This is one game I'm keeping an eye one. 

 

Laserwolf

Since UO and EQ there have been many many many many MMORPGs that use the same type of stale combat. The developers for AoC try to make the first big budget MMORPG with a little more "hands on combat" and all I see are whiny declarations that people won't play it. No group of people on this planet are more afraid of trying new things than MMORPG players. This game was meant to have more twitchy-type combat from the very beginning and yet you people don't avoid the forums and threads about it, you flock there and do your best to try and get it changed. I enjoy the Lore of Lord of the Rings but I knew what kind of game it was from the start and I don't spend all my time on related forums trying to convince the developers that without a harsher death penalty or more twitch-based combat they won't have enough of a following to be commericially successful. I chose AoC because of the game mechanics not because of the Lore. Maybe it is time some of you try the same thing.

That being said, this isn't Mortal Kombat. Instead of choosing 1 of 50 different types of special attacks like you see in almost every other game out there including WoW, you choose from 1 of maybe 5-10 attack directions and then can make various combos out of these by following the prompts on the screen. That's it. I personally think it will make combat easier for myself. I have always had trouble trying to click or hotkey 20 different things during combat in MMORPGs, and to just be able to use the familar number key pad I can make more out of less if I choose.

 

Lastly, as for the console version, forget about it. Personally I would choose the keyboard and mouse over the console controller anyday for anything remotely twitch and especially for all other MMORPG-related mechanics.

 

Xzen

Just go have a look. The game play has nothing like a "Mortal Cobat" fighting system. Listen to what the Dev is actually saying.

Thedrizzle

Plain and simple this style of combat--like other emerging styles of combat-- sperate the truely skilled gamers from the "auto-attack" hacks.

Oh NOES!!!  A combat system that may actually take a bit of skill to master.

Digna

I don't think targeting a specific area actually does anything though? For example, if you target and hit the opponent's weapon hand/arm, you would expect him to swing slower and with less force, if not drop the weapon or have it slip out of his grasp. As I understand it, the hit will just be 'life points' or whatever the AoC term is for them. That being the case why bother targeting?



Or are there combos for specific targets? Say for example a hamstring combo that is only usable when you target a leg/foot that WILL affect the opponent’s footwork/speed if it hits.



Anyone know?

Sinuous

Originally posted by Laserwolf


 Instead of choosing 1 of 50 different types of special attacks like you see in almost every other game out there including WoW, you choose from 1 of maybe 5-10 attack directions and then can make various combos out of these by following the prompts on the screen. That's it. 


Lastly, as for the console version, forget about it. Personally I would choose the keyboard and mouse over the console controller anyday for anything remotely twitch and especially for all other MMORPG-related mechanics.
 

Amazing.....someone who actually knows what they are talking about.



And although the X-Crock-of-shit 360 version won't be released until mid-2008, it will take advantage of 360's new keyboard capability for communication. 



On PCs, the game can be played using a gamepad and a keyboard and a mouse, if you so desire.

Originally posted by DarwynFOUR


ha ha ha am i glad PC gaming is dead.
 
 

You're right................and I suppose you are accessing this website from you console right?  Oh.....and please break it down for us how many of the games on this website that have been released and are in development are for console only. 



Kids like you make me laugh.  



Comparing the two platforms is like comparing apples and oranges.  A PCs capabilities are limitless, while a consoles capabilities are stunted in the worst way.  But seriously, consoles have their place on the market, because people like you just aren't savvy enough to utilize a computer to its full potential.  You might start by going to school and learning proper use of grammar and syntax to stimulate your mind.  Trolling kills brain cells, and I'd wager you don't have many more to lose before you are deemed "developmentally disabled."

Jarlo

It definatly looks more twitchy than current RPG's but nowhere near Soul Caliber and stuff.  IT should be great fun and bravo ot them for trying something new.

Vhayne

WTF is a "paddle"?  haha    I don't think I heard a controller called that since the days of Atari 2600 lol.

 

Anyway.....I have high hopes for the combat in AoC, but I'm still VERY skeptical.  In all the videos they constantly show a level 30 killing level 12's and such.  So it's basically one-hit kills.  Sure it shows the guy standing still swinging some combos in the air, but how it relates to actual even-level (real) combat is yet to be seen. 

Lots of fluff talk and show, but I remember a little game called "Die By The Sword" that came out many years ago, that had a very similar control aspect.  Unfortunately, I couldn't stant the controls, even though I thought it was going to be the most incredible thing since sliced bread ( You can control your sword swings!!!  wow!!! -----pfft).   It didn't work out all that well. 

So yeah, I have lots of worries about how it'll be truely implemented.   I mean, seriously, if you can attack different parts of the body, then what's the purpose?  If you attack the head you do more damage, than attacking the arm?  Then why not attack the head all the time?  I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. 

I really hope they don't disappoint though.  <crosses fingers>

boinged

Has anyone tried Roma Victor? That has twitch-based combat although without the combo system of AoC. Attacks are based on the direction you move the mouse as you click, e.g. back and click for an overhead attack, forward and click for a deadly lunge. Where you attack is important too both in terms of being blocked/parried and also the type of damage dealt.

I think AoC is going to be more arcadey (RV is more of a simulation MMO) but the realism that is added by this kind of combat is great. It will be a welcome change from hotkeys and macros even though I like those too and they require a different kind of skill.