What is the point of a RP-PVP server like Venakor?

Tyrranosaur

Okay, just a question and a bit of griping: I like PvP servers, I have a hunter on WoW for example, and it's entertaining. Now, I started a berserker on the RP-PVP server Venakor for EQ2. I'll admit it was my first character, and I picked the server at random, it being the first choice on the list; I did not realize what kind of server it was until I was a ways in and got ganked, much to my surrpise.

My first thought was, cool, a RP-PVP server, what a neat concept, an even better reflection of reality, in which no one is restricted from taking action as needed.

What I discovered, instead, was that I wasn't playing EQ2 anymore, or even a role playing game: I was playing Quake Arena, apparently. Okay, fine....I figure, hell I'll get really good at this, I'll become a great pvper here, and then I'll be a force to contend with....and wait, what the hell where did those arrows in my back come from?? I'm dead again, and some crappy little faen is looting me! Crap!

So I figured out that you can get ganked and looted, and then they get points or something for the action....I don't know anything about the points, because I never got a chance to earn them. Every time I was ganked it was by someone several levels higher than me, backstabbing from behind, while I'm talking to a quest giver, usually.

Even funnier, my GF set up a character there because I had this one. She got corpse camped (tent camped?) repeatedly, later found a guild that gave her a horse (very nice, I'll admit) then invited her to come show it off, at which point they all jumped her case and ganked her.

So my question is: how can any role playing at all happen on a server like this? If everyone plays the game like its a Quake free-for-all in which if you're basically alone in a dangerous world in which anything that moves is hostile, then great.....it might, possibly, barely even make sense in Freeport, but seriously, the server started to feel like some sort of warped Lord of the Flies. At least in WoW PvP you could relax around comrades, and keep an eye out for the horde or alliance as appropriate.

1. So, does role playing take place on Venakor?

2. If you like the way Venakor works, what is it that appeals to you?

3. Even if you like the pvp elements, do you get frustrated at being ganked while trying to do a quest? Or am I missing the point of this server, and it's not really as focused on questing so much as sneaking around trying to gank before being ganked?

Anyway, just curious. It was probably the most unpleasant MMO experience I've had yet in any game, my short tenure on Venakor, and I have since relocated myself to a happy, frilly little bunny fu fu land of RP servers for EQ2.....I guess I just don't have the cutthroat nature to handle a EQ2 style PVP server...

Rattrap

Wow mate this sounds horrible



I admit i am not pvp player myself. Because i am more of co-op than competitive type. And i think pvp brings wrong type of people.



But this what you describe is probably the worst case of sociopaty in mmos

Tyrranosaur

If real life were like Venakor, I'd have to constantly be watching my co-workers, because they'd be creeping up on me as soon as they felt confident (i.e. right level) to slip a knife in my back....

I officially abandoned that server and am much happier for it now. Lucen D'lere Server I wuv U!

 

Manmadegod

The reason that I stopped playing EQ was the massive amount of twinks that made it impossible to start late on any of the pvp servers... If they had released a new pvp server where everyone wasn't running around with 30k plat in gear at before level 20... I might have stayed playing EQ2 and waiting for Warhammer or AoC... Instead, I am back to playing WoW... or not playing WoW and trolling forums instead.

Shoal

Ever since EQ1 created the first (and only) real RP server, FV, MMORPGs have been slapping the 'RP Server' tag on servers and expecting them to be really RP.

What they forget is that RP on the FV server was enforced by GMs.  You sent to many non-RP chat posts, had an Ass-Hat name, or acted out of EQ RP, you were in trouble.  Including getting booted from the Server.

The closest I have found to real RP in other MMORPGs was on the two non-PvP EQ2 RP servers.

 

Moirae

You just described why I hate PvP. Some people like that stuff. I don't. I suggest you roll a new character on a new server. And watch the definitions this time when choosing a new server.

Tyrranosaur

Originally posted by Moirae

You just described why I hate PvP. Some people like that stuff. I don't. I suggest you roll a new character on a new server. And watch the definitions this time when choosing a new server.

Yes indeed!

I've found the other two RP servers on EQ2 to be most satisfying, and compared to WoW I've seen an enormous amount of role playing going on there. A lot of fun.

But even on WoW's RP-PvP servers I saw more role playing than on poor old Venakor.

I'm not bitching abotu Venakor....I just didn't fully understand the point of it all.

 

Tyrranosaur

Originally posted by Manmadegod

The reason that I stopped playing EQ was the massive amount of twinks that made it impossible to start late on any of the pvp servers... If they had released a new pvp server where everyone wasn't running around with 30k plat in gear at before level 20... I might have stayed playing EQ2 and waiting for Warhammer or AoC... Instead, I am back to playing WoW... or not playing WoW and trolling forums instead.

LOL!

Posting and trolling is what I do when I am at work and can't play.

Manmadegod

Heck.,  I love PvP... Ever since my old school Ultima Online days... I never killed a nooblet unless they deserved it and didn't even get started as a red in UO until I got ganked by a red and loot by a buncha folks... So I was like ok, I wrote the folks names down that looted my body killed buncha  them.,... Oh look a house key on this guy looted his house.... Left a book explaining why his house was looted... Some of them I made friends with only to stab them in the back and loot their houses when I was like yo man can i drop some stuff off in your house and count of monte style - I killed them took their house key looted their house and again left a book....





Ever since then I have loved the PvP aspect of games... but the PvP systems are broken if you can't replace the things that get looted when you die easily and more so broken when twinks can completely ruin you based on gear and not skill....





All games that are PvE with PvP as an underlay, will never do both well... One facet of the game will always take hits for the other one... Take WoW... Crowd Control is a basis for the new heroic dungeons but the same Crowd Control spells that are needed there are completely overpowered in PvP... So the PvP game is of course in that game taking a backseat to PvE as it always has because that is Blizzards business model.... It's like that for most games actually...





I can't wait for some new MMO's to take advantage of an open skill system with some loot in the game but none much better than crafted loot... So that being fully lootable when you die will suck but not break you... I love it.

retrospectic

Every game which designed classes around PvE and then inserted a PvP aspect is faulty.  UO succeeded because Ultima Online created a game in which PvP was a large part of content (at least to begin with).



If you choose a PvP server for an MMO like EQ you are asking for trouble (especially if you are new and the server is old).  Since twinking is ear easier on game such as EQ, ganking is always going to be a problem.



My solution?  I would start a character on a PvE server or a PvPserver which is new.  The content is the game, the loot is the same, but the other players are not capable of owning you because the game is gear based and they can twink.



Also, sorry to hear about your trouble.  It is always sad to hear about a system put into practice which is flawed.

retrospectic

Originally posted by Manmadegod

Heck.,  I love PvP... Ever since my old school Ultima Online days... I never killed a nooblet unless they deserved it and didn't even get started as a red in UO until I got ganked by a red and loot by a buncha folks... So I was like ok, I wrote the folks names down that looted my body killed buncha  them.,... Oh look a house key on this guy looted his house.... Left a book explaining why his house was looted... Some of them I made friends with only to stab them in the back and loot their houses when I was like yo man can i drop some stuff off in your house and count of monte style - I killed them took their house key looted their house and again left a book....





Ever since then I have loved the PvP aspect of games... but the PvP systems are broken if you can't replace the things that get looted when you die easily and more so broken when twinks can completely ruin you based on gear and not skill....





All games that are PvE with PvP as an underlay, will never do both well... One facet of the game will always take hits for the other one... Take WoW... Crowd Control is a basis for the new heroic dungeons but the same Crowd Control spells that are needed there are completely overpowered in PvP... So the PvP game is of course in that game taking a backseat to PvE as it always has because that is Blizzards business model.... It's like that for most games actually...





I can't wait for some new MMO's to take advantage of an open skill system with some loot in the game but none much better than crafted loot... So that being fully lootable when you die will suck but not break you... I love it.

Warhammer is going to give players a loot table.



What that means is that when you die the winner will be able to loot your body and actually get money/gear without taking from the loser.  I love this because it fixes one problem with open looting.  Open looting sucks because deaths due to lost connection or server hiccup or graphic lag is not going to cause you to lose your gear.

Manmadegod

The full lootable corpses simply can't work in most of the newer games because the best loot was looted from raiding or group content and therefor shouldn't be lootable from single combat....





It can work in newer games if the best loot is player made... Then you have a reason not to die to someone due to losing your crafted gear that costed you a little cash... but if you do die, it's not a huge deal. Keeps crafters in business making money and keeps players from dying to get to town faster like in WoW.

Kniknax

OK,

You say your girlfriends guild gave her a horse, then invited her out, and ganked her.

You know that its Faction v Faction and that only the opposing side can gank her yes? So theres no way her new guild could do it.

Anyway, ignoring that, PvP in EQ2 is awesome. You cant be "tent" camped, despite saying you were, as you can select multiple respawn points, and you get immunity when you revive. Normally 30 seconds, but some areas have unlimited till you move. Thats enough time to hit your call if you need to get out of there.

You also cant take part in PvP till you are level 10, so beginners cant be killed.

Some classes though are admittedly better than others, but all have their weaknesses. it sounds like you were hit by a Ranger, arrows in the back etc. They are overpowered, but easy to take down with the right strategy (i.e they are awesome from range, but hit like a girl and drop like a feather if you stand in their face).

The thing with EQ2 PvP is, you need to work out tactics to take on people. You need to learn their weaknesses and exploit them (not in the cheating sense). You cant play it like WoW and run in hitting wildly in the hope they die. Fights are designed to be one offs. You res with no power, so cant rush back in. You have a recent list of kills which last for 30 minutes, kill someone twice or more and you start to lose your own faction, and get no rewards for the second kill onwards.

The EU servers are all moving to Venekor soon, if your on Freeport side look out for Rats, and we'll give you a hand to level and look out for your back

 

Manmadegod

Originally posted by jayanti


OK,
You say your girlfriends guild gave her a horse, then invited her out, and ganked her.
You know that its Faction v Faction and that only the opposing side can gank her yes? So theres no way her new guild could do it.
Any, ignoring that, PvP in EQ2 is awesome. You cant be "tent" camped, despite saying you were, as you can select multiple reswapn points, and you get immunity when you revive until you move. Normally 30 seconds, but some areas have unlimited till you move. Thats enough time to hit your call if you need to get out of there.
You also cant take part in PvP till you are level 10, so beginners cant be killed.
Some classes though are admittedly better than others, but all have their weaknesses. it sounds like you were hit by a Ranger, arrows in the back etc. They are overpowered, but easy to take down with the right strategy (i.e they are awesome from range, but hit like a girl and drop like a feather if you stand in their face).
The thing with EQ2 PvP is, you need to work out tactics to take on people. You need to learn their weaknesses and exploit them (not in the cheating sense). You cant play it like WoW and run in hitting wildly in the hope they die. Fights are designed to be one offs. You res with no power, so cant rush back in. You have a recent list of kills which last for 30 minutes, kill someone twice or more and you start to lose your own faction, and get no rewards for the second kill onwards.
The EU servers are all moving to Venekor soon, if your on Freeport side look out for Rats, and we'll give you a hand to level and look out for your back
 

The problem isnt so much Class vs Class... It's twinks versus new players... The servers on PvP side are rampant with players with ultra twinked gear that makes it completely impossible to level at all past 10 when they haunt the lands in stealth groups because those are the only classes evidently worth twinking.

Moirae

Actually, there has been a good point made... its not possible to be corpse camped or "tent" camped in EQ2. You have multiple respawn possibilities (your choice which one) and there is no spirit shard.

Manmadegod

Originally posted by Moirae

Actually, there has been a good point made... its not possible to be corpse camped or "tent" camped in EQ2. You have multiple respawn possibilities (your choice which one) and there is no spirit shard.

heh, doesnt matter too much when you spawn away from where you have to go to get quests... Especially if you are untwinked and constantly on track from 1/2 the zone away... I am not complaining as much as I am saying how imbalanced the game mechanics allows for the pvp on such a linear game.... It's no suprise people take advantage of it, but you have to stomp out major league twinking or influx of new players simply will not happen.. I think I leveled a necro on there brand new to the game on Venekor to like 24 before running out of places to try to level and not get steam rolled by PvP Twink Groups heh... I fought my way through the commonlands which was simply put camped by 2  to 3 stealth twink groups literally 24/7.

seabass2003

Haha yeah I remember trying to power level at the very begining when those pvp servers went live. Thought I was doing pretty good too. In 3 days I was around level 27 or 32 but then I saw another guy who was already level 48 and would hide while you attacked what you thought was a regular group around your level. Then he would pop and just waste everybody cuz then you were carnage flagged or something like that. That's when I realized its really impractical to have pvp as long as you are using levels.

Manmadegod

Originally posted by seabass2003

Haha yeah I remember trying to power level at the very begining when those pvp servers went live. Thought I was doing pretty good too. In 3 days I was around level 27 or 32 but then I saw another guy who was already level 48 and would hide while you attacked what you thought was a regular group around your level. Then he would pop and just waste everybody cuz then you were carnage flagged or something like that. That's when I realized its really impractical to have pvp as long as you are using levels.

Yep and it hurts the game a bit when new players refuse to level on anything other than new pvp servers lol





Kinda what happened on DAOC Mordred, tho I did play there and made it high enough level with a group of friends before it became a problem... But most people gave noobs hell by camping them 24/7 and never camping high level areas but always the noob areas... Then months down the road the server was almost completely empty and then everyone was looking aroudn saying we dont have enough players wah wah wah... I was like you guys made your bed, now lay in it....

nakuma

the halarious thing is, even in Lineage 2 you wouldnt get attacked that much let alone camped and ganked. yeah you have to worry about it from time time, or the occasional catacomb meathead training mobs. but otherwise even in that game I could manage to level with impunity to some degree, and make money and mats lol. in Eq2 RP-PVP server u get your ass swamped, and raped by every joe schmoe and sally that has reasonably leet gear and is always several levels ahead of you. very rarely if ever will you have a player man up and come at you within his lvl but then again all backstabbers are true cowards by nature, and pick off the susposed weak. but then again in time even the small can become big.

but dude i feel ya pain, you want true organized PVP not some quake style free for all go to lineage2 otherwise stick tot he normal RP/ main servers i was on GUK and blackburrow, and love it. rp pvp servers create to much stress for the new player cause they are gimped, and have little flexibility to get to a reasonable lvl to protect themselves. sucks but its true. but oh well life goes on lol. i hope your enjoying ya life in the new server.

Stoneysilenc

I played on Vox the Twinking (exchange server) server of all time.  I found it no different than any other pvp server of any other game I have ever played.  I got to lvl 45 as a Necro.  Sounds to me you need to play on a PvE server instead, learn all the go to spots, where to get gear, where the instances are that you can hide in if you have to cower, etc...



Gear can only be so good for a player of x level.  They can't wear gear 20+ levels above them or anything like EQ1.  I think you confuse EQ2 with EQ1.



Expect to be ganked and not have a chance.  Don't carry money at all.  Read the rules of the server before you play on the server (they are listed in the FAQ's on the SOE support site).  Play on a PvE server to get used to the game, figure things out, how to craft, what is of value, etc...  Get into a guild.



I usually HATE pvp, but I love it in EQ2.



As to the OP, your girlfriends guild can't kill her.  Not unless her guild is a Exile guild.  If they were Exile then they can kill anyone (exile, Good or Evil) but then cannot guild with her or talk to her unless she was exile as well.  If she got through the Exile quest then she had to know what she was getting into.  It isn't a oops, I am a Exile now quest.  Now it is possible that she ran into a "trap" buy a bad guild who had players on both sides.  But these guilds don't last long because soon as they are found out then it is quickly spread around.  Use local chat to ask about guilds, check them out in the Guild Window, etc...



Just smells like a troll post to me or they are extremely confused about what actually happened.

ab29x

Originally posted by Stoneysilenc

I played on Vox the Twinking (exchange server) server of all time.  I found it no different than any other pvp server of any other game I have ever played.  I got to lvl 45 as a Necro.  Sounds to me you need to play on a PvE server instead, learn all the go to spots, where to get gear, where the instances are that you can hide in if you have to cower, etc...



Gear can only be so good for a player of x level.  They can't wear gear 20+ levels above them or anything like EQ1.  I think you confuse EQ2 with EQ1.



Expect to be ganked and not have a chance.  Don't carry money at all.  Read the rules of the server before you play on the server (they are listed in the FAQ's on the SOE support site).  Play on a PvE server to get used to the game, figure things out, how to craft, what is of value, etc...  Get into a guild.



I usually HATE pvp, but I love it in EQ2.



As to the OP, your girlfriends guild can't kill her.  Not unless her guild is a Exile guild.  If they were Exile then they can kill anyone (exile, Good or Evil) but then cannot guild with her or talk to her unless she was exile as well.  If she got through the Exile quest then she had to know what she was getting into.  It isn't a oops, I am a Exile now quest.  Now it is possible that she ran into a "trap" buy a bad guild who had players on both sides.  But these guilds don't last long because soon as they are found out then it is quickly spread around.  Use local chat to ask about guilds, check them out in the Guild Window, etc...



Just smells like a troll post to me or they are extremely confused about what actually happened.

Problem being there are quite a few level 14ish full AP full pvp gear people.

This problem could be fixed by making level locking unavailable till 20th level or even better no death xp penalty till 20th level.

You'll figure out the logic in my statement.   I don't think I need to explain.

Thus why I left again.  Not that I couldn't hack it,  just didn't appeal to me.   I had a high level player out of group healing me while I was level 10 with standard crafted armor and weapons for the level.  It took me a good 5 min to take down a level 12 twink. 

Wheres the fun in that?

Thats my point.   Otherwise.  PVP + EQ2 = Fun.

 

Tyrranosaur

Originally posted by jayanti


OK,
You say your girlfriends guild gave her a horse, then invited her out, and ganked her.
You know that its Faction v Faction and that only the opposing side can gank her yes? So theres no way her new guild could do it.
Anyway, ignoring that, PvP in EQ2 is awesome. You cant be "tent" camped, despite saying you were, as you can select multiple respawn points, and you get immunity when you revive. Normally 30 seconds, but some areas have unlimited till you move. Thats enough time to hit your call if you need to get out of there.
You also cant take part in PvP till you are level 10, so beginners cant be killed.
Some classes though are admittedly better than others, but all have their weaknesses. it sounds like you were hit by a Ranger, arrows in the back etc. They are overpowered, but easy to take down with the right strategy (i.e they are awesome from range, but hit like a girl and drop like a feather if you stand in their face).
The thing with EQ2 PvP is, you need to work out tactics to take on people. You need to learn their weaknesses and exploit them (not in the cheating sense). You cant play it like WoW and run in hitting wildly in the hope they die. Fights are designed to be one offs. You res with no power, so cant rush back in. You have a recent list of kills which last for 30 minutes, kill someone twice or more and you start to lose your own faction, and get no rewards for the second kill onwards.
The EU servers are all moving to Venekor soon, if your on Freeport side look out for Rats, and we'll give you a hand to level and look out for your back
 

Hmmm your post sheds some interesting insight...makes me want to go back and try it again. Still, I am confused: if it's faction vs. faction, how come I was getting ganked by member sof my own faction? I was in the middle of the Graveyward and the Ruins, for example, and am uncertain as to how Queynosians could make it there to nail me, let alone survive guard fights.

Also, guilds are not faction-based, so members of both factions can be in the same guild, so that would not affect my GF's funny and tragic ganking....

 

 

thosewhoharp

Seriously, I havent read all of the replies but after working on EQ2 for a while (and during the KoS/PvP launch) I can honestly say that most of the Venekor player base came there because the regular pvp server population was too high.

Tyrranosaur

Well, I abandoned Venakor officially, and my GF finally went back to delete her character, but was nice enough to tell her guild that they can give the horse to someone else. To finish her tragic tale, they had her return to Freeport to relay it to a new character, a fresh level 10. Needless to say, she showed up to rendezvous, and no one was around. They then proceeded to gank her. Again and again and again. She got pissed and started telling them, Did they want the horse or not? Most of the ganks came from behind and she couldn't even figure out where or from who. It was nuts.

Being the sweetie she is, the level 10 at last presented himself for the horse. Then they ganked her. I'd have just said "screw you guys, I'm taking the horse with me!" But she's far too nice. Bear in mind, she only came to that server because I started there....she was willing to experience the rp-pvp environ for my sake, but not because it was her cup of tea.

As to an earlier post, I do agree, limiting experience penalties for pvp combat would be wise. For that matter, limiting how many and how much someone can squeeze from your corpse (i.e. maybe a 24 hour cooldown before you'll generate loot or points to the same killer) might not hurt. Also, I just don't get the idea that fellow guildmates can gank each other. Bizarre.

Daedalus732

I've honestly had nothing bad bad experiences on Venekor, ranging from being ganked to the completely uncaring nature of the community that magically expects you to know all the rules to the PVP server somehow.



Playing on that server really brought out the worst in me, and now I'm seriously giving though to returning to FFXI, just because I know that if I'm going to play a PVE game, I might as well go all out.

heocat

If you really love pvp you might try rvr you can dl DAOC trial for free update to catacombs free then just pay 12.95 a month if after 2 weeks you like it. I recently went back to playing it because its level oriented in the battle grounds untill higher levels and gives all kinds of quests in pve settings to raise your armor/weapon to compete. I would recomend the classic servers. I went back after 2 years and found it still to be fun. the people on there were real friendly and helpfull too.