World or Instanced PvP?

leipuri

A lot of mmorpgs seem to be adding pvp only available in balanced instanced, moving away from world PvP. Just wanting to see if thats what majority wants here.

whitedelight

My personally opinion is that I think the world should be huge, but broken up into different "instances" or "zones". Sorf of like Final Fantasy XI zones. World PvP would benefit from this greatly because if you take care of each zone (on the developer side) you can allow for more people on the screen and thus leading to much more epic style battles. Not epic pvp battles in WoW where two players fight for 3-4 minutes instead of 1 minute and then people referring to it as epic, the epic in it's truest sense, such as 30 vs 30 or something of the sort.

If you want to add instanced pvp like an arena or battlegrounds, then that would be okay as long as world pvp is more common. I like to be tested out in the world, or cought off guard and being able to recover rather than to enter a zone and expect to be looking for people for 15 points or until our team gets three flags. Just my opinion.

Knightblast

I prefer RvR PvP similar to the way that DAoC designed it: most PvE leveling areas are not PvP, there are set aside BGs, and a large FFA PvP zone with PvP objectives like castles and relics.  That way, you have open PvP areas for those who want that (with PvP-oriented goals), you have BGs for people who want that, and you have PvE leveling areas that allow people to level without being griefed.

godpuppet

Originally posted by Novaseeker

I prefer RvR PvP similar to the way that DAoC designed it: most PvE leveling areas are not PvP, there are set aside BGs, and a large FFA PvP zone with PvP objectives like castles and relics.  That way, you have open PvP areas for those who want that (with PvP-oriented goals), you have BGs for people who want that, and you have PvE leveling areas that allow people to level without being griefed.

Ditto.



Instanced PVP becomes meaningless, boring and repetitive, especially when it designed to be with random groups, theres no coordination.



RVR was ahead of its time. Having a world area in which anyone can enter, with castles and forts that can be conquered in the name of guild and realm, for rewards to person, realm and guild is unbelievably fun. It promotes team based pvp which adds a whole new element of challange to an MMO. It adds an element of social, the building of relationships within guild and realm, even alliance wide. It also adds a sense of pride in guild.



There are so many pros to the RVR system that I could rant all day... Hopefully Warhammer does it right





I would be playing DAoC now if I could bottle the month long solo grind and then the grind for the best gear just so I can compete on an equal level.

boognish75

I have come to dislike instancing in games for the most case, it negates any  competativeness in the game, as it seems to me that anyone can instance single, group and raid, therefore everyone has the ability to get the same armor, where is the ''game'' in this, it seems to babycakes to me, i like fighting over mobs, spawns, pops and names and materials, it makes it feel more like a game to me and adds a nice edgy feeling and suspense when my group, player, or raid group is haveing a showdown with another group to get the said mob, boss, materials ect, it also keeps me coming back to try, instancing is like meh, i have it  why go back, meh everyone has it why even bother lol, i wonder if anyone else feels like this, that is one of many reasons i left eq2 and ddo, it was no contest, no challenge, the only challenge was to kill it which is easily done in those type of games with instancing because once its done its set in stone to do it that way and thats how ya do it. Now give me something seamless with out instancing like saga of ryzom, or old swg, or vanguard i feel i have to fight and contest for mobs , materials, have showdowns with other groups for areas, that there feels more like a game to me, some good old fashioned rivalry like earth and beyond (RIP), saga of ryzom, and vanguard have. Im not really sure why people like instancing in games, it ..to me anyway..negates any kind of contesting rivalry in the game.

Knightblast

Originally posted by boognish75

I have come to dislike instancing in games for the most case, it negates any  competativeness in the game, as it seems to me that anyone can instance single, group and raid, therefore everyone has the ability to get the same armor, where is the ''game'' in this, it seems to babycakes to me, i like fighting over mobs, spawns, pops and names and materials, it makes it feel more like a game to me and adds a nice edgy feeling and suspense when my group, player, or raid group is haveing a showdown with another group to get the said mob, boss, materials ect, it also keeps me coming back to try, instancing is like meh, i have it  why go back, meh everyone has it why even bother lol, i wonder if anyone else feels like this, that is one of many reasons i left eq2 and ddo, it was no contest, no challenge, the only challenge was to kill it which is easily done in those type of games with instancing because once its done its set in stone to do it that way and thats how ya do it. Now give me something seamless with out instancing like saga of ryzom, or old swg, or vanguard i feel i have to fight and contest for mobs , materials, have showdowns with other groups for areas, that there feels more like a game to me, some good old fashioned rivalry like earth and beyond (RIP), saga of ryzom, and vanguard have. Im not really sure why people like instancing in games, it ..to me anyway..negates any kind of contesting rivalry in the game.

But that's not what the OP is about.  The OP is asking whether PvP should be instanced or not -- that's different from whether PvE content should be instanced.

boognish75

oh no way man pvp shouldnt be instanced imo, i like to watch and stalk people i have on my vandetta list and pounce them by surprise throughout the game, instance anything blows chunx, and chunx is my dog....sorry had to throw a joke in there.

Obraik

I'd say World, but the odd instanced PvP wouldn't be too bad, mostly for the lower level players. 

I like how it is in SWG where anywhere can potentially be a battle zone, from the dedicated PvP areas (which aren't really instanced, but you need to be PvP enabled to enter the areas) to the shop you're buying some armour from.

Anofalye

In some zones and in instances.

 

Must make sure there is no reason for a PvE player to enter these zones or instances, PvE rewards should not be in there in anyway except maybe secondaries, trivial and weaker versions of what exist in  PvE zones.

last_exile

In my opinion world is always better makes everything more real and isnt that the reason we all playis to get away from real life and live another one of our choosing..

Paragus1

In games with 2 sides locked into a war, it is rediculous to be fighting over the world, but not fighting in it.  Fighting over the same lumber mill or 1 acre stretch of woods doesn't make much sense.  If we are to believe that we are fighting for control of the world, then thats where the battle should be fought with the potential to spill into ANY area.  Instanced PvP is the same as playing a first-person shooter.   You do the same maps over and over with nothing changing regardless who wins.   This in turn leads to the same recycled strats being used over and over.  It's boring, unimmersive, and silly to craft a magnificent world in size and or detail, but make it impossible to play out war on it.

Nadril

I'm all for world PvP. However, it would be nice having even an arena type thing where you can 1v1 others in a control'd enviroment (without reward)

Aethios

---

Originally posted by Paragus1
In games with 2 sides locked into a war, it is rediculous to be fighting over the world, but not fighting in it.  Fighting over the same lumber mill or 1 acre stretch of woods doesn't make much sense.  If we are to believe that we are fighting for control of the world, then thats where the battle should be fought with the potential to spill into ANY area.  Instanced PvP is the same as playing a first-person shooter.   You do the same maps over and over with nothing changing regardless who wins.   This in turn leads to the same recycled strats being used over and over.  It's boring, unimmersive, and silly to craft a magnificent world in size and or detail, but make it impossible to play out war on it.

---

QFT.

Part of war is trying to catch your opponent off-guard, in territory he is not familiar with. Putting everyone into a neutral instanced battleground removes half the fun of PvP.

Rod_B

world.

 

pvp isnt just fun because of the fights themselves, it's fun because the fights have an impact on the world.

Instanced pvp is no pvp

 

Ohaan

I am a steadfast believer that an MMORPG can either be PvP focussed or PvE focussed. One always has to be the priority over the other. IMO games like EQ, WoW, and DAoC absolutely require some form of instancing or zone restrictions for PvP otherwise there is the potential for too much interference in the PvE (levelling) parts of the game. However I think that a well designed, PvP focussed MMO should forgo instancing altogether.

Rehmes

It should be open ended and nto instanced. PvP that is instanced loses a lot of the rush involved in PvP and also loses out on tactical advantages etc. I dont think PVP ruins any pve aspect. I played lineage 2 for 2 yrs. Ye si have been pked but that only taught me to band together with other, which at the end of the day is the main idea of the game. But ofc some people like one over the other so companies will always be at odd when using one form of pvp over the other.

Kelnon

Originally posted by godpuppet

Originally posted by Novaseeker

I prefer RvR PvP similar to the way that DAoC designed it: most PvE leveling areas are not PvP, there are set aside BGs, and a large FFA PvP zone with PvP objectives like castles and relics.  That way, you have open PvP areas for those who want that (with PvP-oriented goals), you have BGs for people who want that, and you have PvE leveling areas that allow people to level without being griefed.

Ditto.



Instanced PVP becomes meaningless, boring and repetitive, especially when it designed to be with random groups, theres no coordination.



RVR was ahead of its time. Having a world area in which anyone can enter, with castles and forts that can be conquered in the name of guild and realm, for rewards to person, realm and guild is unbelievably fun. It promotes team based pvp which adds a whole new element of challange to an MMO. It adds an element of social, the building of relationships within guild and realm, even alliance wide. It also adds a sense of pride in guild.



There are so many pros to the RVR system that I could rant all day... Hopefully Warhammer does it right





I would be playing DAoC now if I could bottle the month long solo grind and then the grind for the best gear just so I can compete on an equal level.Now, after the 1.88 patch going live today, the long grind is no longer an issue

BadSpock

perfect PVP system (for me)



1) instanced, quick matches with familiar game types, deathmatch, team deathmatch, capture the flag, kind of the hill etc. 10-15 per team max. This for quick, fun, simple PVP to do for a half hour or so etc.

2) world pvp. control of zones/resources, never any breaks/safety. open and brutal. Only "safety" you NEED in there is some kind of anti-griefing mechanic. My idea? Auto level balancing. Level 50 attacks level 30, level 30 hits/defends/damages etc like a level 38-39. Level 50 hits/defends/damages like a level 41/42. That way, little more fair/balanced, but still gives advantage to the high level player, but removes much of the griefing problem.

3) pve/leveling zones with no pvp. no leveling/questing etc in pvp zones. keep it seperate, let people do what they want.

4) experience/skill up rewards for PVP action. why does NO game reward you experience to level your character from PVP?

Ohaan

Originally posted by Kelnon

Originally posted by godpuppet



I would be playing DAoC now if I could bottle the month long solo grind and then the grind for the best gear just so I can compete on an equal level.

Now, after the 1.88 patch going live today, the long grind is no longer an issue

What has been changed? How long will the grind now take?



How many years has it taken Mythic to realize that the mandatory PvE levelling part of DAoC was nothing but a barrier and waste of time to those players seeking the core RvR gameplay?

healz4u

GREAT Question!





I prefer World/Environmental PVP because it enhances the feel of the world and also creates an unpredictable gaming experience, which can in many ways make it more fun.  However, it has to work within some parameters to be effective.





Instance PvP is also fun, but I think world/environment PVP is more fun for ME and therefore my preference.  The only problem is that instance PVP can take-away from environmental/world PVP.  So, it has to be designed carefully.





I think PVP is becoming increasingly an obviously important (if not crucial) feature of MMORPGs.

Knightblast

Originally posted by Kelnon

Originally posted by godpuppet

Originally posted by Novaseeker

I prefer RvR PvP similar to the way that DAoC designed it: most PvE leveling areas are not PvP, there are set aside BGs, and a large FFA PvP zone with PvP objectives like castles and relics.  That way, you have open PvP areas for those who want that (with PvP-oriented goals), you have BGs for people who want that, and you have PvE leveling areas that allow people to level without being griefed.

Ditto.



Instanced PVP becomes meaningless, boring and repetitive, especially when it designed to be with random groups, theres no coordination.



RVR was ahead of its time. Having a world area in which anyone can enter, with castles and forts that can be conquered in the name of guild and realm, for rewards to person, realm and guild is unbelievably fun. It promotes team based pvp which adds a whole new element of challange to an MMO. It adds an element of social, the building of relationships within guild and realm, even alliance wide. It also adds a sense of pride in guild.



There are so many pros to the RVR system that I could rant all day... Hopefully Warhammer does it right





I would be playing DAoC now if I could bottle the month long solo grind and then the grind for the best gear just so I can compete on an equal level.Now, after the 1.88 patch going live today, the long grind is no longer an issue



Indeed, which is why I am on my way bzck to DAoC and away from WoW.



Sorry, folks, ganking anywhere in the world without consequence is not "realism", it is simple indulgence.  PvP is best when there are goals to achieve as in any real world war: war objectives and the like.  Saying that FFA PvP is more realistic is hopelessly flawed: in the real world, vigilante killers would be hunted down, jailed and killed.  Most FFA advocates do not support any realistic responsibility system, because this would be "artificial".  Well, sorry, but the idea that people can be mass murderers without consequence (or meaningful consquence) is the most unrealistic design idea available.

godpuppet

I just looked at the 1.88j patch notes... Could you tell me what exactly is so good about them?

leipuri

Keep the votes coming. So far World is winning by far.



Personally I liked RvR concept, but would like more open pvp. WoW PvP failed because neutral zones and towns, even quests that both alliance and horde could take. Then there was instances entrance relatevely low level zone like Zul'Gurub at STV, so any high level going there would go to that low level area and while waiting to everyone get ready might as well kill few lowbies.



What I would like to see is sort of RvR but each realms would have large enough areas to level and have advantage in home zones, while dying in own realm owned zone it would just be small corpse run with little no penalty, but if you died in enemy home zone you would have long corpse run with penalty that keep you off that zone like 30-60 mins. So if high level came to kill some lowbie in their home zone these lowbies wouldnt get that big penalty, but if the lowbies joined forces together to drive that high level off or some other high level came to kill him, then he wouldnt be able to come back for awhile.



Contested zone that would be zone that any realm could own with keeps, sieges and stuff that would give these epic battles.