But no matter how good this game is or isn't we should not have to pay to play an unfinished product.
I'm sorry, but I've grown really weary of this argument. No one is forced to pay for anything. Anyone who has done even the lightest research, i.e. read any number of posts on this site, knows that Vanguard continues to be unfinished. Even the most ardent VanFans have acknowledged its continuing beta status. Anyone who pays their good money for Vanguard and expects anything else has only themselves to blame. <rant over>
This was not true upon release. Around that time, there was this huge surge of positivity from the Vanbois (and/or stealth marketers), claiming that things had improved SO much in the last couple of weeks of beta. A lot of people were tricked into paying good money for a terrible game that they would never have bought otherwise.
obviously you never played it cause in couple weeks prior to release and just after Sigil DID patch alot fo things and fixed some major performance issues. They took care of alot of the play killing bugs.
oh wait...I must be a vanboi or a "steath marketer" please. I play the game and like it. I dont hide that. However, I highly doubt that I "convinced" anyone to buy the game. No one held a gun to anyones head and said "buy this game or else" Dont blame other people cause you cant think for yourself, bottom line.
You really think this many people would be complaining if all those fixes to performance issues were anywhere NEAR adequate? I don't care even the slightest bit how many game killing bugs they took care of -- there were still a LOT of game killing bugs present when I played.
And I CAN think for myself, thank you very much. That's why I like to debunk all the crap spewed by Vanguard's apologists.
If you're not trying to convince people to play the game, then I have to wonder why you are posting on these forums, and on this thread in particular?
I agree and disagree. Its imo wery Unprofessional to release a so buggy game, and having players to belive that just having the recommended system specs in order should do fine, its rude and its bad conduct often seen in hyped mmorps.
Problem is that betatesters is not serius heard anymore, anyone applying to beta just for playing the game for fun and forget about there task in the game or else the company dont listen to them. something is wrong! Imo a bad launch should always show goodwill and freebees, for exable, look at wow at beta, run great, testet streestestet ect ect, the launch was flawless and wery fast playdays given back to players cuzz of problems, thats how it should work, we, yes you and me are constomers and we have a right to speak up when we thing something is wrong, and im glad to se people do, cuzz we must stop the way its going,
i think Vanguard is a fun and great game, i like the mature audience and i know for sure in 2-3 mounth it wil be a winner, i know SIGIL is working hard atm to fix it all but so many problems filling up. Hear me now SOE / SIGIL, give your gamers a break, give them free days or god knows what, show some goodwill and it will come back to you 10fold
It is hard to tell if a man is telling the truth when you know you would lie if you were in his place
Smek, I understand and agree with your emphasis on beta testers. That said, I tested VG for a long time with many bug reports, quest evaluations and tons of forum feedback. Among all the things I have point out, my major emphasis was mostly performance issues. Many other beta testers pointed out to the same issue.
Now only a few rabid Vanbois claim that the game runs slick and smooth for them and they blame the issues all on your pc. Other than that, even Sigil has confessed several times that the game has performance issues. As a beta tester, I brought this issue up over and over and over in beta until my posts started to be locked. And now, 2 months after release, guess what? Performance is still broken and it still has serious issues. What happened to all the beta feedback?
This issue is not in the Unreal engine, the issue is not in the so called "3rd gen" graphics, the issue is in the graphical implementations of Sigil. The VG engine itself is broken. And for some reason, it runs remarkably worse on Nvidia cards (I played the game both on Nvidia on Ati!)
So my friend, as a tester, I did my best, but Sigil did not! Please stop blaming it on beta testers.
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
Hi maklaj. its not a personal attack on betatesters but a awake call to betatesters in a way, they given a task but lack to performe it. you know the typical betatester "wow got a key now, now i can se if the game is for me" and forget about everything else OR else the develeper simple dont listen to the testers, something did go wrong in the betaphase of Vanguad is clearly seen...
Responseble betatesters is a blast and game develepers is fooling themself in the end, if the behave like in your case. thats just sad...
Why betatesters if you dont give a **** makes you go hmm.
It is hard to tell if a man is telling the truth when you know you would lie if you were in his place
Something did go wrong in the beta. The devs either didn't listen to the testers, or nothing was actually done in beta three which improved the game.
We told them them that the item decay system didn't work, that items weren't leaving the economy.
We told them the animations were lacking.
We told them that performance was shocking.
We told them that housing wasn't fully implemented, that diplomacy wasn't fully implemented. That AES wasn't implemeneted.
We told them that helmet graphics weren't in.
We told them that they were releasing too early.
The game didn't changed much at all from beta 3 to release. What did get changed was rushed and bugged. The broker system, the binding of equipment. The changes to horse speed and inventory.
Need I go on?
Originally posted by smek1975
Hi maklaj. its not a personal attack on betatesters but a awake call to betatesters in a way, they given a task but lack to performe it. you know the typical betatester "wow got a key now, now i can se if the game is for me" and forget about everything else OR else the develeper simple dont listen to the testers, something did go wrong in the betaphase of Vanguad is clearly seen... Responseble betatesters is a blast and game develepers is fooling themself in the end, if the behave like in your case. thats just sad... Why betatesters if you dont give a **** makes you go hmm.
1) Brad has explained about ten times what he ment by next-generation/third generation mmo...
He should not have to explain his defintion of 'next-generation/third generation mmo'. If his definition so different from the common definition of the term (A game that builds on previous games and pushes the genre forward) then he shouldn't use the term in the first place.
He should make up some weird new term like his 'Core Player' definition (Had to love that one when he was trying to avoid the 'Hardcore' label that they had touted on the game so much before release).
Right now the one term I'm seeing repeated from Brad isn't 'third generation' it's the word 'mistake'. He's been saying this one over and over in his forum posts.
That's not a term you want to see in developer posts/articles right after the release of their game.
And yet, there are still people willing to pay for the game. And so, the cycle of companies releasing half-finished/buggy MMORPGs will continue. As long as they can bilk money out of players to fix their screw-up rather than paying for it themselves, why should they change?
And you can't blame the beta-testers for this fiasco. It's impossible that all of the testers were such blind Vanbois that they didn't point out flaws. "Players don't kill games, developers/publishers do". (Para-phrased from Mark Jacobs at Mythic)
Comments
I'm sorry, but I've grown really weary of this argument. No one is forced to pay for anything. Anyone who has done even the lightest research, i.e. read any number of posts on this site, knows that Vanguard continues to be unfinished. Even the most ardent VanFans have acknowledged its continuing beta status. Anyone who pays their good money for Vanguard and expects anything else has only themselves to blame. <rant over>
This was not true upon release. Around that time, there was this huge surge of positivity from the Vanbois (and/or stealth marketers), claiming that things had improved SO much in the last couple of weeks of beta. A lot of people were tricked into paying good money for a terrible game that they would never have bought otherwise.
obviously you never played it cause in couple weeks prior to release and just after Sigil DID patch alot fo things and fixed some major performance issues. They took care of alot of the play killing bugs.
oh wait...I must be a vanboi or a "steath marketer"
please. I play the game and like it. I dont hide that. However, I highly doubt that I "convinced" anyone to buy the game. No one held a gun to anyones head and said "buy this game or else" Dont blame other people cause you cant think for yourself, bottom line.
You really think this many people would be complaining if all those fixes to performance issues were anywhere NEAR adequate? I don't care even the slightest bit how many game killing bugs they took care of -- there were still a LOT of game killing bugs present when I played.
And I CAN think for myself, thank you very much. That's why I like to debunk all the crap spewed by Vanguard's apologists.
If you're not trying to convince people to play the game, then I have to wonder why you are posting on these forums, and on this thread in particular?
Well Well...
I agree and disagree. Its imo wery Unprofessional to release a so buggy game, and having players to belive that just having the recommended system specs in order should do fine, its rude and its bad conduct often seen in hyped mmorps.
Problem is that betatesters is not serius heard anymore, anyone applying to beta just for playing the game for fun and forget about there task in the game or else the company dont listen to them. something is wrong! Imo a bad launch should always show goodwill and freebees, for exable, look at wow at beta, run great, testet streestestet ect ect, the launch was flawless and wery fast playdays given back to players cuzz of problems, thats how it should work, we, yes you and me are constomers and we have a right to speak up when we thing something is wrong, and im glad to se people do, cuzz we must stop the way its going,
i think Vanguard is a fun and great game, i like the mature audience and i know for sure in 2-3 mounth it wil be a winner, i know SIGIL is working hard atm to fix it all but so many problems filling up. Hear me now SOE / SIGIL, give your gamers a break, give them free days or god knows what, show some goodwill and it will come back to you 10fold
It is hard to tell if a man is telling the truth when you know you would lie if you were in his place
Smek, I understand and agree with your emphasis on beta testers. That said, I tested VG for a long time with many bug reports, quest evaluations and tons of forum feedback. Among all the things I have point out, my major emphasis was mostly performance issues. Many other beta testers pointed out to the same issue.
Now only a few rabid Vanbois claim that the game runs slick and smooth for them and they blame the issues all on your pc. Other than that, even Sigil has confessed several times that the game has performance issues. As a beta tester, I brought this issue up over and over and over in beta until my posts started to be locked. And now, 2 months after release, guess what? Performance is still broken and it still has serious issues. What happened to all the beta feedback?
This issue is not in the Unreal engine, the issue is not in the so called "3rd gen" graphics, the issue is in the graphical implementations of Sigil. The VG engine itself is broken. And for some reason, it runs remarkably worse on Nvidia cards (I played the game both on Nvidia on Ati!)
So my friend, as a tester, I did my best, but Sigil did not! Please stop blaming it on beta testers.
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
Hi maklaj. its not a personal attack on betatesters but a awake call to betatesters in a way, they given a task but lack to performe it. you know the typical betatester "wow got a key now, now i can se if the game is for me" and forget about everything else OR else the develeper simple dont listen to the testers, something did go wrong in the betaphase of Vanguad is clearly seen...
Responseble betatesters is a blast and game develepers is fooling themself in the end, if the behave like in your case. thats just sad...
Why betatesters if you dont give a **** makes you go hmm.
It is hard to tell if a man is telling the truth when you know you would lie if you were in his place
Something did go wrong in the beta. The devs either didn't listen to the testers, or nothing was actually done in beta three which improved the game.
We told them them that the item decay system didn't work, that items weren't leaving the economy.
We told them the animations were lacking.
We told them that performance was shocking.
We told them that housing wasn't fully implemented, that diplomacy wasn't fully implemented. That AES wasn't implemeneted.
We told them that helmet graphics weren't in.
We told them that they were releasing too early.
The game didn't changed much at all from beta 3 to release. What did get changed was rushed and bugged. The broker system, the binding of equipment. The changes to horse speed and inventory.
Need I go on?
He should not have to explain his defintion of 'next-generation/third generation mmo'. If his definition so different from the common definition of the term (A game that builds on previous games and pushes the genre forward) then he shouldn't use the term in the first place.
He should make up some weird new term like his 'Core Player' definition (Had to love that one when he was trying to avoid the 'Hardcore' label that they had touted on the game so much before release).
Right now the one term I'm seeing repeated from Brad isn't 'third generation' it's the word 'mistake'. He's been saying this one over and over in his forum posts.
That's not a term you want to see in developer posts/articles right after the release of their game.
And yet, there are still people willing to pay for the game. And so, the cycle of companies releasing half-finished/buggy MMORPGs will continue. As long as they can bilk money out of players to fix their screw-up rather than paying for it themselves, why should they change?
And you can't blame the beta-testers for this fiasco. It's impossible that all of the testers were such blind Vanbois that they didn't point out flaws. "Players don't kill games, developers/publishers do". (Para-phrased from Mark Jacobs at Mythic)