The only reason why WoW is that succesful is that Blizzard has made a name before. No one heard of Verdant or Sigil before they started making EQ1/Vanguard! Blizzard has made enough money from Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo.
This is such a load of dung it's not funny. Ok, maybe no one knew about them before EQ1, but they certainly knew about Everquest before Everquest 2 came out and WoW blew that game out of the water! You're telling me the only reason is because of Blizzard's reputation? Well Blizzard didn't have squat for reputation in the MMO world when WoW was released and Everquest was the king. By your reasoning it should have been WoW that floundered and EQ2 should have been a huge success. Sorry, but all you people who won't give credit to Blizzard for putting out a better MMO for most people are just in denial. It's not for everyone and surely some will hate it, but the majority of those people who try it, love it. You think that's just because of Blizzard's name and no other reason? That's BS. Major BS and frankly I'm tired of hearing it.
This is such a load of dung it's not funny. Ok, maybe no one knew about them before EQ1, but they certainly knew about Everquest before Everquest 2 came out and WoW blew that game out of the water! You're telling me the only reason is because of Blizzard's reputation? Well Blizzard didn't have squat for reputation in the MMO world when WoW was released and Everquest was the king. By your reasoning it should have been WoW that floundered and EQ2 should have been a huge success.
Yes, that is exactly what I mean. Blizzards reputation has nothing to do with MMOs!
Its not like they put "WoW" next to "Blizzard" and people went "Omg what is that. never heared of it"....
People knew who was making that game. Blizzard used its SInglePlayer Reputation to push their MMO.
The only reason why WoW is that succesful is that Blizzard has made a name before. No one heard of Verdant or Sigil before they started making EQ1/Vanguard! Blizzard has made enough money from Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo.
This is such a load of dung it's not funny. Ok, maybe no one knew about them before EQ1, but they certainly knew about Everquest before Everquest 2 came out and WoW blew that game out of the water! You're telling me the only reason is because of Blizzard's reputation? Well Blizzard didn't have squat for reputation in the MMO world when WoW was released and Everquest was the king. By your reasoning it should have been WoW that floundered and EQ2 should have been a huge success. Sorry, but all you people who won't give credit to Blizzard for putting out a better MMO for most people are just in denial. It's not for everyone and surely some will hate it, but the majority of those people who try it, love it. You think that's just because of Blizzard's name and no other reason? That's BS. Major BS and frankly I'm tired of hearing it.
You are loaded with more BS that it is extremely sad.
WoW didn't Blow the doors off EQ2, infact if EQ2 had system spec requirements as LOW as WoW it would probably been more populated. Infact most MMO's out to date would be more popular if their system spec requirements were as low as WoW's.
Obviously the majority out there can't afford a decent computer and probably should be playing on the consoles instead of holding PC gaming developement companies back in the dark ages. That's all I hear all the time, people whining about how the specs are too high. So high they start trolling forums bashing games like VSoH, EQ2 and so on.
Just give it time, AoC, Warhammer and others will get their beatings as well once most figure out it won't run on their POS system with the crappy $125 video card. Thanks to WoW, blizzard has basically told the general public that is it OK to keep your computer from 2001.
Speaking of reputation, why do you only compare by saying WoW didn't have squat for reputation in the MMO business. Talk about selective pointing to win an arguement. Why don't you bring up that Warcraft has been around ever since Doom has been out. Or that Diablo has been out as long as Baldur's Gate. That Blizzard has battle.net that attracted all of the battle.net kiddies for over 8+ years now. Then to add on top of that, Starcraft as another game to add to their SP and MP gaming of RPG/RTS series of games.
No, you just want to use it to compare in the MMO scene so it makes it look like WoW rose from ashes of greatness.
If you knew anything, basically the MMORPG genre came from old MP style playing of RPG's. Wow, diablo was a hack-n-slash at that. MMO's were in a corner all alone and were slowly becoming more known. Blizzard on the other hand took what they already had and expanded upon it. Not only gathering the battle.net kiddes, but they merged the RTS gaming into a RPG. So not only did they attract their Warcraft fans, they also attracted their Diablo fans. Now since it was a Blizzard product. I am sure it made a lot of Starcraft fans excited that their fanboism company was sticking their foot into the MMO scene.
I read one of you here stating that the majority of WoW players never even played Warcraft or Diablo. Well, that is BULL. Most people I met in game knew a lot of the lore of Warcraft series and even stated this was their first MMO ever and what drew them here was from Battle.net and/or Warcraft and Diablo. Infact A lot of newbies I met in WoW told me that they wouldn't even be playing WoW if they had to upgrade their systems. Infact a lot of people I know in LOTRO beta say they are glad that LOTRO runs smooth on lowerr end systems. That way they can play it. Now I am not just talking about upgrading for just graphical reasons, but also for in game mechanical reasons as well and other game engine functions that low spec systems couldn't even process without overheating. That is one thing wrong with a lot of people, they tend to think it is always the graphics that are lagging them down in game. Just because it is the most common doesn't mean it is the main culprite.
I think all of this is a bunch of BULL. The whole PC gaming industry is being held back by a bunch of losers that can't afford to upgrade their systems every other year.
for the guy I am quoting in here. BULL, WoW DID NOT make a better MMO. They dumbed down the whole genre with their mainstream gaming. Now most devs out there are going to copy that just so they can make that extra buck. Who cares what the majority truly likes. the majority are idiots anyways. Anyone that thinks WoW is a AWESOME RPG has got to be nuts. They wouldn't know a true RPG if it hit them in the face.
Frankly Pappy13, you are a load of horsecrap and I am EXTREMELY tired of reading brainwashed suckup WoW fanboism from people like you. You suck-ass to the man in the suit and kiss-ass to the general public only because of what is popular. WoW isn't a cutting edge game in the MMORPG scene. It is a trend and everyone in the world that follows what the masses do. Most people don't play WoW because it is "FUN", they play it because their friends play it. Most WoW players are mindless individuals that can't think for themselves. They are like the mule being led by the carrot. Or the little duckies that follow their momma duck. Just a bunch of idiots that wouldn't know quality if it hit them in the face.
Something tells me your herd of mindless gamers are either going to stampede your way over to LOTRO or WARHAMMER. Which ever will work on most of them outdated systems we all used back in the AC/EQ days. I am really starting to wonder If I should just go play VSoH or some other high end game so that I stay FAR, FAR away from the crowd of cows that mindlessly buy into everything their friends tell them that is Ohhh Sooo GREAT!!!! WoW sucks and everyone knows it is a POS, where the lore gets boring and old before you even make it out of the first 3 regions.
BTW, EQ2 was a good success compared to the regular MMO scene. Blizzard just brought all of you from all the other genres. If you say I lie....Then where was this MASS of people before WoW came to be??? I don't see all that in the other ones that were out before WoW came around. Also I don't really see any of the other MMO's out there really lose anyone from their games. If all these WoW players came from the MMO community then wouldn't all the other MMO's be all dried up?
IMHO, WoW should be in a WHOLE different category away from the other MMO's. you know, in the same category as Barney & friends, just have a +5 on the box so the kindergarten folks don't get it mixed up.
In the end, WoW is like comparing Diablo to D&D. so when you say other MMo's suck compared to WoW and you ask us to explain why <insert REAL MMO here> is better than WoW. Well it is like trying to explain to a 10 year old why D&D turn based (with a DM) is better than Hack-n-slash. Or why reading a book has more detail in it than a movie. In the end WoW SUCKS and is a MAJOR POS game that is ruining the REAL MMO"RPG" genre. too bad, but I guess the younger generations are just too stupid to ever get it.
EDITED: Sorry, had to correct some spelling or otherwise I think a LOT of people wouldn't be able to put the dots together.
WOW brings no innovative during 2004. It brings the feel of MMORPG to new players and tasty quest / storyline from Warcraft series and the simple gameplay so that everyone can get into action no matter new or veteran players. Without Blizzard making the Warcraft RPG game, WoW wouldnt exist in the MMORPG market. WoW success lies within the new players interest and hardcore Warcraft fans and quite a portion of RMT evils.
EQ2 is the real success but have some down points compare to EQ. CoH is successful too by bringing in superhero genre with itemless gameplay, deep customization character making, but have pretty steep learning curve for its enhancement. My opinion is you cant blame everything on WoW or any other MMORPG, it have its good and bad points, players point of view is always personal preferences.
2 cent donated.
All canceled. Waiting on Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning.
Now, why do we not see people judging restaurants by comparing them to McD?
WTH is this Mc Donalds you speak of? but in all seriousness new and old titles should not be compared to WoW ie Vanguard should not be vs WoW maybe Eq/Eq2 but not WoW lets see AoC more then likely nothing like WoW yet seen the forum topic somewhere next maybe we will see TR vs. WoW or SgW vs. WoW. Why ppl think WoW is "THE GOD OF MMO's" is beyond me but w/e just stop comparing new titles to it when they are more then likely 100% different. Hell i think i even saw one that was a FFxI vs WoW which imo is the stupidest thing ever. Quest xp was never a new thing just devs got smart and said hey lets add this crap in too and make the same quest over and over and over for different amounts of xp/loot/gil,moni,credits, etc...
Now, why do we not see people judging restaurants by comparing them to McD?
WTH is this Mc Donalds you speak of? but in all seriousness new and old titles should not be compared to WoW ie Vanguard should not be vs WoW maybe Eq/Eq2 but not WoW lets see AoC more then likely nothing like WoW yet seen the forum topic somewhere next maybe we will see TR vs. WoW or SgW vs. WoW. Why ppl think WoW is "THE GOOD OF MMO's" is beyond me but w/e just stop comparing new titles to it when they are more then likely 100% different. Hell i think i even saw one that was a FFxI vs WoW which imo is the stupidest thing ever. Quest xp was never a new thing just devs got smart and said hey lets add this crap in too and make the same quest over and over and over for different amounts of xp/loot/gil,moni,credits, etc...
I agree wholeheartedly, Nothing here should be compared to WoW. The only thing that really can be compared to WoW is this.
I have to agree with godpuppet on the subject of "WoW being famous even before it's launch". Let's face it, there were "only" like 1 million people at launch and today there are 8 million and I bet we are going to see 9 million soon aswell.
I can truly only see WoW's wealth because others simply aren't doing so well at the moment. WoW contains SO many hardcore-casual gamers it's unbeatable by any standards given. It's the paradise for people who simply aren't that good at games in general or doesn't have alot of time to play them due to many various things in life.
WoW does what it does best, and that is to be as accessible and giving as it truly can. And no other game on the MMO market can be compared to this.
For us who are very experienced with the MMO market WoW might be the most boring thing ever seen, because we've all seen it before and this is no exception, in fact, it's only MORE of the very basic you could see traces of in previous games.
Other games could be good, but not a single chance, can they be compared to WoW in making new players stuck. It's a simple road to start walking any since nothing is truly unclear what to do even the newbies has a hang of what to do.
People will never stop boggling their minds to why WoW is so huge today, I know I am never going to do either. Because in any way or form, WoW has perhaps gotten bigger than anyone would have ever thought and it certainly has gotten bigger than it truly should. That every game is to be compared to it nowadays only justifies the fact that it's been consuming all too many people.
Many many many people plays it, but I am also willing to bet a rough majority of everything I own that when most newbs and casual souls reach end-game they get scared away, that of course if they haven't been transformed into WoW-fanboys on the path of course.
WoW end game is either hardcore PvE or ... now hardcore PvP (which is an unwanted child to begin with). PvE wise there's pretty decent amount of variety compared to many. There's actually pretty many dungeons and they're very decent. The only thing that completely ruins the game for me is the DKP system and sitting 100'ds of hours and still have a chance of getting nothing. Many think it's ok since it's done before in EQ, but I find it a bit... tedious.
Now, the only game/s I can see that could actually be real challengers are WAR and maby AoC. But here's another thing that will be a hinderance to that aswell, they're not PvE games! They're PvP games. The masses (casuals) find PvP too time-consuming and hardcore in general and therefore sticks to simply PvE. Where you can do anything anytime.
The reason I believe WAR will be a challenger is because they are trying to make PVP as ACCESSIBLE as WoW has made their PVE. And if that can be done, well, heck it sure SHOULD deserve the throne or a split throne at best. Many also think it looks similar to WoW, but let me comment upon that.
They obviously want to challenge Blizzard, is this a bad thing? Nope this is only the natural way of quality games being made. Throughout competitioning.
WAR will be WoW number 2 in my opinion. But as I've earlier stated, nothing bad about that. It's the PVP version of WoW. If they pull it off. And the main reason I think that is not because it looks similar, but through being as polished and accessible, in all the glorious ways. And since WoW PvP truly is ... kinda dull, I believe many PvP'ers will find a new pleasant home from there.
AoC could be really great, but in any way it already looks to complicated for the huge casual crowd. But time will tell, there's much time before both are released. Much or pretty much anything can happen on the road. It's gonna be a blast watching what's gonna happen nevertheless.
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
The reason I believe WAR will be a challenger is because they are trying to make PVP as ACCESSIBLE as WoW has made their PVE. And if that can be done, well, heck it sure SHOULD deserve the throne or a split throne at best. Many also think it looks similar to WoW, but let me comment upon that.
More so WoW looks similar to War cause as stated by the devs themselves Warhammer was the main basis for Warcraft it has been said i don't know how may times
WAR will be WoW number 2 in my opinion. But as I've earlier stated, nothing bad about that. It's the PVP version of WoW. If they pull it off. And the main reason I think that is not because it looks similar, but through being as polished and accessible, in all the glorious ways. And since WoW PvP truly is ... kinda dull, I believe many PvP'ers will find a new pleasant home from there.
War being WoW 2 that may very well happen cause all devs are stupid right now and think with WoW's success they should just copy a lot of the major points of WoW thus what happen to SWG
more so WoW looks similar to War cause as stated by the devs themselves Warhammer was the main basis for Warcraft it has been said i don't know how may times as for War being WoW 2 that may very well happen cause all devs are stupid right now and think with WoW's success they should just copy a lot of the major points of WoW thus what happen to SWG
Absolutely I agree. I don't think they AIMED for WAR to be looking like WoW (Graphic wise). But WAR looks like it SHOULD look and if that is "like WoW" for many well then it's just, as you spoke, Blizzard who made their game look like WAR.
But to be honest I find the graphical compareances worthless and non-saying. Who cares anyway??? The game ain't gonna be WoW.
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
I do hope you are right, but my gut tells me otherwise.Current gaming devs are just proving that old saying right "They are the dumbest smart people there are"
I would love to see each game go it's own direction but there is some commons now that you just cant escape.
1: Level system: For some odd reason every company thinks you need this why i don't know. Off hand i can thing of at least 3 alternatives to this. Skill point system ie SWG was great up till the jedi/hologrind BS
2: Items: Big + to Cryptic here for calling BS on items and nixing them from the start My number one complaint about fantasy games always have to be better the the next person with the best Uber Duber gear bleh bleh bleh
3: Auto Attack/Auto Run: My god can you say R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D. Lets put an attack system that can make botting programs ez'er to make all im saying on that.
Things that should be thought out more
Story: This is a big one for me. How most MMORPG's out can call themselves this with the crap ass stories/ lack of i have no clue. To date i have only found 2 MMo's with stories i would consider to RP worthy EvE and CoH both great stories and a great feel of immersion DDO didnt really get to into it but probably has a great story and high RP play to it.
Casual Friendly: Most of us to work to fund our little hobbies but most games ie WoW are not for casual players if you want to be a great PvP god and what not or you want that certain item cause it look cool as shit on your toon but its in a 40 man 3-6 hour dungeon. In all honesty REAL PEOPLE don't have time for that. All current MMo's cater do the small number of so called "Hardcore Gamer" (25-45 male living with their parents no and hasnt had a date since High School if they are lucky who sit around talkin shite cause they just killed you blah blah blah MO) who can sit on their ass all day and grind out items and gold and what not to hike the economy up so what they thing there craptastic gold named items are worth (Guild War in example)
i could more then likely think of more but its 3:40am haha
All big reasons i play EvE. High Rp playability and great story/stories, itemization isn't that big a deal, CASUAL FRIENDLY i set a skill to learn and i go on my marry way either pirating, mining, crafts, or w/e.
Would there be any traditional RPG games that does not require using a skill set or levels but merely FPS twitch based where the only way you can advance is with better equipment, or die..where magic is gained through scrolls and improves through % usage
Would there be any traditional RPG games that does not require using a skill set or levels but merely FPS twitch based where the only way you can advance is with better equipment, or die..where magic is gained through scrolls and improves through % usage
well the %usage to advancement is how SWG used to be and the twitch is how it is now. As for a fantasy title like anything you are talking about i dont think it will ever happen haha sad but more then likely true but hey who knows maybe this tcos.com/en/news/ will be something close to what you are lookin for
Oh yes, an other whiner. I cannot believe what I'm reading.
Lotro compared to WoW
Vanguard compared to WoW
The Bible compared to WoW.... I can't believe what a big influence WoW turned out to be..
It ruined the MMOs.
Once upon a time a MMO was considered something different. Something interesting.
Something not out there.
Blizzard just came along, grabbed what it could reach and produced the perfectly
suitable ordinary MM-Ho that everyone could hump.
- Playing WoW does not make you Professors of MMOlegy.
- WoW is NOT everybody's aim and most certainly not the measure of all things
Try to find your own values and points.
It sickens me
- Playing <Insert some "hardcore" "good" "time sink" "you get my point" mmo name here> does not make you Professors of MMOlegy, either.
- <Insert some "hardcore" "good" "time sink" "you get my point" mmo name here> is NOT everybody's aim and most certainly not the measure of all things.
World of Warcraft is a damn fine quality product. It does what it wants to do good. It has production values. It's quality work. If you like the gameplay that is up to you, but you have to see that Blizzard did a damn fine job in what they set out to do. And it shows there are no excuses at all to releasing a unfinished game, not even in the mmo world. And everyone should take that as the standard and let the developers know that this is how it should be.
Most people will compare mmo games to Wow, because that is the game people most likely have played. True there are many bad threads and "immature" people doing it, but I don't see anything wrong in a serious person comparing one mmo game to Wow. Although I must note that it is hard to compare certain aspects of mmo's since they can be fairly different. And if people compare games towards Wow, and use Wow as a example how a finished and relative bug free product should be made, it is great. Because if noone does that developers will just continue to release unfinished stuff. Just take Sigil as a example, making the 2nd most expensive mmo in history, and they still manage to deliver a rather bad product. There are no excuses for that.
Luckily developers like Mythic, Turbine and Funcom have picked up after Blizzards example. And they are most likely all going to release some very good products this and next year.
If you have fun playing a game, that is in most cases up to your personal taste. But you should be able to see a quality product, when there is one. Blizzard has set a example that many should learn from. If they do I think we have some great years before us in the mmo world. With quality products, and not some buggy pay for beta stuff.
WoW has to thank its success to the marketing they did. Before it and even after it I never have seen that much marketing being done for a game on pc. They already had an immense base of players from the previous Warcraft/Starcraft universe. And don't forget a lot of people also know Diablo. They had a big cash behind the hands and that they spend well into marketing. That is all, nothing more and nothing less that has to do with the success of WoW.
And other then that comparing green with red is as good as comparing one mmorpg to another. As soon as you can compare the games that means they are copies of each other and well once I have seen a movie it doesn't matter how many times I burn it on another dvd I still have seen it.
"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
This is such a load of dung it's not funny. Ok, maybe no one knew about them before EQ1, but they certainly knew about Everquest before Everquest 2 came out and WoW blew that game out of the water! You're telling me the only reason is because of Blizzard's reputation? Well Blizzard didn't have squat for reputation in the MMO world when WoW was released and Everquest was the king. By your reasoning it should have been WoW that floundered and EQ2 should have been a huge success.
Yes, that is exactly what I mean. Blizzards reputation has nothing to do with MMOs!
Its not like they put "WoW" next to "Blizzard" and people went "Omg what is that. never heared of it"....
People knew who was making that game. Blizzard used its SInglePlayer Reputation to push their MMO.
And EQ2 was riding on the reputation of EQ1, didn't get them very far. WoW didn't get 8 million subscribers because people said, "Oh, I've heard of that." They got 8 million subscribers because 1 million people bought the game and started telling all their friends how much fun it was and invited them to join and they had fun and they told their friends and so on. Word of mouth is 100 times more powerful than reputation.
Frankly Pappy13, you are a load of horsecrap and I am EXTREMELY tired of reading brainwashed suckup WoW fanboism from people like you. You suck-ass to the man in the suit and kiss-ass to the general public only because of what is popular. WoW isn't a cutting edge game in the MMORPG scene. It is a trend and everyone in the world that follows what the masses do. Most people don't play WoW because it is "FUN", they play it because their friends play it. Most WoW players are mindless individuals that can't think for themselves. They are like the mule being led by the carrot. Or the little duckies that follow their momma duck. Just a bunch of idiots that wouldn't know quality if it hit them in the face.
WoW. Too much there to respond to. I'd love to argue with you on this, but somehow I don't think you would listen objectively.
Last time I was suggestion some features that I liked from Neverwinter Nights 1 private servers in a Neverwinter Nights 2 forum section of PW. Some idiots immediately called me try to copy WOW, while in fact 1. There was nothing alike 2. NWN1 was long before WOW existed.
One thing we can be certain that, most people like to compare things to the "first" thing they have ever get to know in this category. In this case, WOW is the first MMO most WOW fans ever played. Their view is very limited. Many of them even think WOW is the mother of all MMO that started this category of games.
We can also agree on that WOW is the most successful MMO up to date. It means nothing about how good it is. Just like movies, go check the box office of movies. Many lower rated movies are in fact having 10x higher box office than better movies. Some garbag movies could get way over 100 million box office in the US while some much better movies get 6 million only. It has nothing to do with the quality itself, but more like who can hyper up more who will sell best.
For the gameplay part, WOW has nothing new. And is still considered an ordinary grinding to me. Those "quests" ARE indeed grinding. Not even new.
I actually beta tested WoW. I remember thinking... uh... is this it? It was "cute", but it certainly didn't impress me much. It has always bothered me how well WoW has done. It's not all that special, and the fact that people buy into it like they do simply reduces my faith in humanity.
Let's face facts. Blizzard and world of warcraft are great at making money. While the players are not generall skill-less whiners or idiots, I myself am a wow player, the game is designed to be accessible to those with lower than normal mental faculties if they so choose to play. It caters to the lowest common denominator like alot of things that are really successful, it makes the learning curve relatively small so that players can hop into the entertainment quicker. It did a great job at this. You should never let other's opinions sway your own so heavily that you all continue these fights. I know alot of games that I thought were great, that are at the bottom of the lists at this site.
I have yet to see a single mmorpg that has outstanding reviews from the players. Every forum about every game has quite a few people entertaining us with shouts of "omg this game sux" and "This is not as cool as wow, it should have <feature of wow> and then it would be cool" or "wowites suck you shoul stop being a tool and play <insert low rated low player base game here>"
I took a while to get to my point and here it is: They all kind of suck and could use improvement, every last dam game out. Not because the developers suck, but because we will pay for a half finished game and keep paying for subscriptions month after month in hopes that they will get there act together.
As much as you may hate to believe it, WoW has changed the industry.
Prior to WoW the default system to leveling was the mob grind. Endless hours of mindless 'camping' in the hope of getting a tiny percentage of XP. For many, Blizzard put the 'fun' back into MMO. Today the quest system has been adopted by all MMO's and it is now the favored method of progression by those both new to the industry and those veteran.
WoW has its faults, but I give credit where it is due. Blizzards dedication to pushing out a 'ready' product was examplary and has caused todays game companys to reconsider their direction. Before WoW it was normality for MMO's to be released in tragic states and to continue its 'Beta' phase well into retail. WoW's 8 million subscriber success has proved in numbers to the men in suits, that prolonged and invested development results in huge success. We are beginining to see the results of Blizzards labour with titles such as Warhammer and Age of Conan...
While I do agree, the level of inteligence behind some posters threads is embarassing. Comparing MMO's is like comparing Beer to Wine.
This is your take on it, and one that is widely held. I have a different opinion, however.
Before WoW, games were different. While you think Blizzard was dedicated to pushing out a "ready" product, I have a different take on it. I think Blizzard changed the industry by putting out a game with a hugely known intellectual property with a highly recognizable name, yesterday's graphics and gameplay "borrowed" from all previous MMORPG's. Solid to be sure, but with very little innovation and an embarrasingly repetitive end game.
Companies who do try and put out games with leading edge graphics and innovative gameplay will just not see the level of success Blizzard has attained with World of Warcraft. Why should anyone bother to make an MMORPG that is truly great when they can pump something out with pretty, low poly colorfully bloomy graphics, easy 1-2-3 quests and hand-me-down gameplay?
Yeah, Blizzard sure did change the industry. Definitely for the worse in this cowboys opinion.
I took a while to get to my point and here it is: They all kind of suck and could use improvement, every last dam game out. Not because the developers suck, but because we will pay for a half finished game and keep paying for subscriptions month after month in hopes that they will get there act together.
And yet people continue to pay developers when they release half-finished games
Following your argument, it's easy to see why WoW did so well. Blizzard produced a game that sucked less than the other MMORPGs. That's the same thing they did with Warcraft and Starcraft - these game had no great innovations to the RTS-genre, they just sucked less than the others out there
But Blizzard did do one thing truly revolutionary with WoW, they released a MMORPG whose fundamental game engine was solid and free of any major bugs. The launch of WoW was horrible but that was because of overloaded servers from unexpected, record-breaking sales. The game engine itself was operational and working without major flaws months before release.
One wonders if WoW would have 8 million subscribers today if they had the same game-breaking bugs at launch like so many other MMORPGs that are released before they are finished.
Let's face facts. Blizzard and world of warcraft are great at making money. While the players are not generall skill-less whiners or idiots, I myself am a wow player, the game is designed to be accessible to those with lower than normal mental faculties if they so choose to play. It caters to the lowest common denominator like alot of things that are really successful, it makes the learning curve relatively small so that players can hop into the entertainment quicker. It did a great job at this. You should never let other's opinions sway your own so heavily that you all continue these fights. I know alot of games that I thought were great, that are at the bottom of the lists at this site.
I agree, Blizzard has always been very good at making money. And you are probably right... the popularity of WoW is most likely due to it's design as a moron-friendly game. And, since the majority of people are idiots (I've dealt with the general public for years in sales, trust me, this is fact) I suppose that would indeed explain it.
Originally posted by Yasic
I have yet to see a single mmorpg that has outstanding reviews from the players. Every forum about every game has quite a few people entertaining us with shouts of "omg this game sux" and "This is not as cool as wow, it should have <feature of wow> and then it would be cool" or "wowites suck you shoul stop being a tool and play <insert low rated low player base game here>"
I am not endorsing any particular game in my expression of distaste in WoW's popularity. I am sick of hearing about WoW the same way I am sick of hearing people try to argue against global warming. WoW is just a video game, and not a very impressive one at that. Global warming is real, and that sucks too.
Originally posted by Yasic
I took a while to get to my point and here it is: They all kind of suck and could use improvement, every last dam game out. Not because the developers suck, but because we will pay for a half finished game and keep paying for subscriptions month after month in hopes that they will get there act together.
I agree with you here. Every MMORPG out there needs improvement. And you are also correct, the developers are not the problem. It's the companies that employ the developers. The decision to release a game which really should still be in closed beta and finish development while the game is live is a business decision. SoE is the perfect example of this. It's more about the money than the game, which unfortunately means gamers aren't going to get a good game until an indy company pulls out some serious title and polishes it before release. I tried holding my breath, but I start breathing every time I pass out.
And yet people continue to pay developers when they release half-finished games
Exactly. I am currently not subscribed to an MMORPG specifically because there is nothing currently attracting my attention. There are a couple coming out that I might like to try. We'll see how that goes.
Originally posted by Alienovrlord Following your argument, it's easy to see why WoW did so well. Blizzard produced a game that sucked less than the other MMORPGs. That's the same thing they did with Warcraft and Starcraft - these game had no great innovations to the RTS-genre, they just sucked less than the others out there
Exactly. Rather than breaking ground... do just enough to get by without having to work too hard.
Originally posted by Alienovrlord
But Blizzard did do one thing truly revolutionary with WoW, they released a MMORPG whose fundamental game engine was solid and free of any major bugs. The launch of WoW was horrible but that was because of overloaded servers from unexpected, record-breaking sales. The game engine itself was operational and working without major flaws months before release.
This is due to a severe lack of innovation. There are no bugs because the engine isn't really all that special. The graphics are pretty chunky, allowing for low lag due to low polygon counts. The textures are cartoony and lack complexity, so there's another performance gain. In fact, the graphics sort of remind me of a playstation game with better shaders and slightly higher resolution.
Originally posted by Alienovrlord
One wonders if WoW would have 8 million subscribers today if they had the same game-breaking bugs at launch like so many other MMORPGs that are released before they are finished.
I would be willing to bet that it would have no where NEAR the same number of players. I played EQ2 starting a week or two after launch (1st week of Dec '04) and people left in droves for WoW due to technical issues and system requirement dissapointments for my entire stay with EQ2 (which ended January '06).
Comments
The only reason why WoW is that succesful is that Blizzard has made a name before. No one heard of Verdant or Sigil before they started making EQ1/Vanguard! Blizzard has made enough money from Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo.
This is such a load of dung it's not funny. Ok, maybe no one knew about them before EQ1, but they certainly knew about Everquest before Everquest 2 came out and WoW blew that game out of the water! You're telling me the only reason is because of Blizzard's reputation? Well Blizzard didn't have squat for reputation in the MMO world when WoW was released and Everquest was the king. By your reasoning it should have been WoW that floundered and EQ2 should have been a huge success.
Sorry, but all you people who won't give credit to Blizzard for putting out a better MMO for most people are just in denial. It's not for everyone and surely some will hate it, but the majority of those people who try it, love it. You think that's just because of Blizzard's name and no other reason? That's BS. Major BS and frankly I'm tired of hearing it.
Its not like they put "WoW" next to "Blizzard" and people went "Omg what is that. never heared of it"....
People knew who was making that game. Blizzard used its SInglePlayer Reputation to push their MMO.
"stupidity is its own reward"
The only reason why WoW is that succesful is that Blizzard has made a name before. No one heard of Verdant or Sigil before they started making EQ1/Vanguard! Blizzard has made enough money from Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo.
This is such a load of dung it's not funny. Ok, maybe no one knew about them before EQ1, but they certainly knew about Everquest before Everquest 2 came out and WoW blew that game out of the water! You're telling me the only reason is because of Blizzard's reputation? Well Blizzard didn't have squat for reputation in the MMO world when WoW was released and Everquest was the king. By your reasoning it should have been WoW that floundered and EQ2 should have been a huge success.
Sorry, but all you people who won't give credit to Blizzard for putting out a better MMO for most people are just in denial. It's not for everyone and surely some will hate it, but the majority of those people who try it, love it. You think that's just because of Blizzard's name and no other reason? That's BS. Major BS and frankly I'm tired of hearing it.
You are loaded with more BS that it is extremely sad.
WoW didn't Blow the doors off EQ2, infact if EQ2 had system spec requirements as LOW as WoW it would probably been more populated. Infact most MMO's out to date would be more popular if their system spec requirements were as low as WoW's.
Obviously the majority out there can't afford a decent computer and probably should be playing on the consoles instead of holding PC gaming developement companies back in the dark ages. That's all I hear all the time, people whining about how the specs are too high. So high they start trolling forums bashing games like VSoH, EQ2 and so on.
Just give it time, AoC, Warhammer and others will get their beatings as well once most figure out it won't run on their POS system with the crappy $125 video card. Thanks to WoW, blizzard has basically told the general public that is it OK to keep your computer from 2001.
Speaking of reputation, why do you only compare by saying WoW didn't have squat for reputation in the MMO business. Talk about selective pointing to win an arguement. Why don't you bring up that Warcraft has been around ever since Doom has been out. Or that Diablo has been out as long as Baldur's Gate. That Blizzard has battle.net that attracted all of the battle.net kiddies for over 8+ years now. Then to add on top of that, Starcraft as another game to add to their SP and MP gaming of RPG/RTS series of games.
No, you just want to use it to compare in the MMO scene so it makes it look like WoW rose from ashes of greatness.
If you knew anything, basically the MMORPG genre came from old MP style playing of RPG's. Wow, diablo was a hack-n-slash at that. MMO's were in a corner all alone and were slowly becoming more known. Blizzard on the other hand took what they already had and expanded upon it. Not only gathering the battle.net kiddes, but they merged the RTS gaming into a RPG. So not only did they attract their Warcraft fans, they also attracted their Diablo fans. Now since it was a Blizzard product. I am sure it made a lot of Starcraft fans excited that their fanboism company was sticking their foot into the MMO scene.
I read one of you here stating that the majority of WoW players never even played Warcraft or Diablo. Well, that is BULL. Most people I met in game knew a lot of the lore of Warcraft series and even stated this was their first MMO ever and what drew them here was from Battle.net and/or Warcraft and Diablo. Infact A lot of newbies I met in WoW told me that they wouldn't even be playing WoW if they had to upgrade their systems. Infact a lot of people I know in LOTRO beta say they are glad that LOTRO runs smooth on lowerr end systems. That way they can play it. Now I am not just talking about upgrading for just graphical reasons, but also for in game mechanical reasons as well and other game engine functions that low spec systems couldn't even process without overheating. That is one thing wrong with a lot of people, they tend to think it is always the graphics that are lagging them down in game. Just because it is the most common doesn't mean it is the main culprite.
I think all of this is a bunch of BULL. The whole PC gaming industry is being held back by a bunch of losers that can't afford to upgrade their systems every other year.
for the guy I am quoting in here. BULL, WoW DID NOT make a better MMO. They dumbed down the whole genre with their mainstream gaming. Now most devs out there are going to copy that just so they can make that extra buck. Who cares what the majority truly likes. the majority are idiots anyways. Anyone that thinks WoW is a AWESOME RPG has got to be nuts. They wouldn't know a true RPG if it hit them in the face.
Frankly Pappy13, you are a load of horsecrap and I am EXTREMELY tired of reading brainwashed suckup WoW fanboism from people like you. You suck-ass to the man in the suit and kiss-ass to the general public only because of what is popular. WoW isn't a cutting edge game in the MMORPG scene. It is a trend and everyone in the world that follows what the masses do. Most people don't play WoW because it is "FUN", they play it because their friends play it. Most WoW players are mindless individuals that can't think for themselves. They are like the mule being led by the carrot. Or the little duckies that follow their momma duck. Just a bunch of idiots that wouldn't know quality if it hit them in the face.
Something tells me your herd of mindless gamers are either going to stampede your way over to LOTRO or WARHAMMER. Which ever will work on most of them outdated systems we all used back in the AC/EQ days. I am really starting to wonder If I should just go play VSoH or some other high end game so that I stay FAR, FAR away from the crowd of cows that mindlessly buy into everything their friends tell them that is Ohhh Sooo GREAT!!!! WoW sucks and everyone knows it is a POS, where the lore gets boring and old before you even make it out of the first 3 regions.
BTW, EQ2 was a good success compared to the regular MMO scene. Blizzard just brought all of you from all the other genres. If you say I lie....Then where was this MASS of people before WoW came to be??? I don't see all that in the other ones that were out before WoW came around. Also I don't really see any of the other MMO's out there really lose anyone from their games. If all these WoW players came from the MMO community then wouldn't all the other MMO's be all dried up?
IMHO, WoW should be in a WHOLE different category away from the other MMO's. you know, in the same category as Barney & friends, just have a +5 on the box so the kindergarten folks don't get it mixed up.
In the end, WoW is like comparing Diablo to D&D. so when you say other MMo's suck compared to WoW and you ask us to explain why <insert REAL MMO here> is better than WoW. Well it is like trying to explain to a 10 year old why D&D turn based (with a DM) is better than Hack-n-slash. Or why reading a book has more detail in it than a movie. In the end WoW SUCKS and is a MAJOR POS game that is ruining the REAL MMO"RPG" genre. too bad, but I guess the younger generations are just too stupid to ever get it.
EDITED: Sorry, had to correct some spelling or otherwise I think a LOT of people wouldn't be able to put the dots together.
EQ2 is the real success but have some down points compare to EQ. CoH is successful too by bringing in superhero genre with itemless gameplay, deep customization character making, but have pretty steep learning curve for its enhancement. My opinion is you cant blame everything on WoW or any other MMORPG, it have its good and bad points, players point of view is always personal preferences.
2 cent donated.
All canceled. Waiting on Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning.
I agree wholeheartedly, Nothing here should be compared to WoW. The only thing that really can be compared to WoW is this.
http://www.bigfishgames.com/downloads/spongebobsquarepkq/index.html
I can truly only see WoW's wealth because others simply aren't doing so well at the moment. WoW contains SO many hardcore-casual gamers it's unbeatable by any standards given. It's the paradise for people who simply aren't that good at games in general or doesn't have alot of time to play them due to many various things in life.
WoW does what it does best, and that is to be as accessible and giving as it truly can. And no other game on the MMO market can be compared to this.
For us who are very experienced with the MMO market WoW might be the most boring thing ever seen, because we've all seen it before and this is no exception, in fact, it's only MORE of the very basic you could see traces of in previous games.
Other games could be good, but not a single chance, can they be compared to WoW in making new players stuck. It's a simple road to start walking any since nothing is truly unclear what to do even the newbies has a hang of what to do.
People will never stop boggling their minds to why WoW is so huge today, I know I am never going to do either. Because in any way or form, WoW has perhaps gotten bigger than anyone would have ever thought and it certainly has gotten bigger than it truly should. That every game is to be compared to it nowadays only justifies the fact that it's been consuming all too many people.
Many many many people plays it, but I am also willing to bet a rough majority of everything I own that when most newbs and casual souls reach end-game they get scared away, that of course if they haven't been transformed into WoW-fanboys on the path of course.
WoW end game is either hardcore PvE or ... now hardcore PvP (which is an unwanted child to begin with). PvE wise there's pretty decent amount of variety compared to many. There's actually pretty many dungeons and they're very decent. The only thing that completely ruins the game for me is the DKP system and sitting 100'ds of hours and still have a chance of getting nothing. Many think it's ok since it's done before in EQ, but I find it a bit... tedious.
Now, the only game/s I can see that could actually be real challengers are WAR and maby AoC. But here's another thing that will be a hinderance to that aswell, they're not PvE games! They're PvP games. The masses (casuals) find PvP too time-consuming and hardcore in general and therefore sticks to simply PvE. Where you can do anything anytime.
The reason I believe WAR will be a challenger is because they are trying to make PVP as ACCESSIBLE as WoW has made their PVE. And if that can be done, well, heck it sure SHOULD deserve the throne or a split throne at best. Many also think it looks similar to WoW, but let me comment upon that.
They obviously want to challenge Blizzard, is this a bad thing? Nope this is only the natural way of quality games being made. Throughout competitioning.
WAR will be WoW number 2 in my opinion. But as I've earlier stated, nothing bad about that. It's the PVP version of WoW. If they pull it off. And the main reason I think that is not because it looks similar, but through being as polished and accessible, in all the glorious ways. And since WoW PvP truly is ... kinda dull, I believe many PvP'ers will find a new pleasant home from there.
AoC could be really great, but in any way it already looks to complicated for the huge casual crowd. But time will tell, there's much time before both are released. Much or pretty much anything can happen on the road. It's gonna be a blast watching what's gonna happen nevertheless.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
But to be honest I find the graphical compareances worthless and non-saying. Who cares anyway??? The game ain't gonna be WoW.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
I would love to see each game go it's own direction but there is some commons now that you just cant escape.
1: Level system: For some odd reason every company thinks you need this why i don't know. Off hand i can thing of at least 3 alternatives to this. Skill point system ie SWG was great up till the jedi/hologrind BS
2: Items: Big + to Cryptic here for calling BS on items and nixing them from the start
3: Auto Attack/Auto Run: My god can you say R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D. Lets put an attack system that can make botting programs ez'er to make all im saying on that.
Things that should be thought out more
Story: This is a big one for me. How most MMORPG's out can call themselves this with the crap ass stories/ lack of i have no clue. To date i have only found 2 MMo's with stories i would consider to RP worthy EvE and CoH both great stories and a great feel of immersion DDO didnt really get to into it but probably has a great story and high RP play to it.
Casual Friendly: Most of us to work to fund our little hobbies but most games ie WoW are not for casual players if you want to be a great PvP god and what not or you want that certain item cause it look cool as shit on your toon but its in a 40 man 3-6 hour dungeon. In all honesty REAL PEOPLE don't have time for that. All current MMo's cater do the small number of so called "Hardcore Gamer" (25-45 male living with their parents no and hasnt had a date since High School if they are lucky who sit around talkin shite cause they just killed you blah blah blah MO) who can sit on their ass all day and grind out items and gold and what not to hike the economy up so what they thing there craptastic gold named items are worth (Guild War in example)
i could more then likely think of more but its 3:40am haha
All big reasons i play EvE. High Rp playability and great story/stories, itemization isn't that big a deal, CASUAL FRIENDLY i set a skill to learn and i go on my marry way either pirating, mining, crafts, or w/e.
Visit Devon and Cornwall
- <Insert some "hardcore" "good" "time sink" "you get my point" mmo name here> is NOT everybody's aim and most certainly not the measure of all things.
World of Warcraft is a damn fine quality product. It does what it wants to do good. It has production values. It's quality work. If you like the gameplay that is up to you, but you have to see that Blizzard did a damn fine job in what they set out to do. And it shows there are no excuses at all to releasing a unfinished game, not even in the mmo world. And everyone should take that as the standard and let the developers know that this is how it should be.
Most people will compare mmo games to Wow, because that is the game people most likely have played. True there are many bad threads and "immature" people doing it, but I don't see anything wrong in a serious person comparing one mmo game to Wow. Although I must note that it is hard to compare certain aspects of mmo's since they can be fairly different. And if people compare games towards Wow, and use Wow as a example how a finished and relative bug free product should be made, it is great. Because if noone does that developers will just continue to release unfinished stuff. Just take Sigil as a example, making the 2nd most expensive mmo in history, and they still manage to deliver a rather bad product. There are no excuses for that.
Luckily developers like Mythic, Turbine and Funcom have picked up after Blizzards example. And they are most likely all going to release some very good products this and next year.
If you have fun playing a game, that is in most cases up to your personal taste. But you should be able to see a quality product, when there is one. Blizzard has set a example that many should learn from. If they do I think we have some great years before us in the mmo world. With quality products, and not some buggy pay for beta stuff.
WoW has to thank its success to the marketing they did. Before it and even after it I never have seen that much marketing being done for a game on pc. They already had an immense base of players from the previous Warcraft/Starcraft universe. And don't forget a lot of people also know Diablo. They had a big cash behind the hands and that they spend well into marketing. That is all, nothing more and nothing less that has to do with the success of WoW.
And other then that comparing green with red is as good as comparing one mmorpg to another. As soon as you can compare the games that means they are copies of each other and well once I have seen a movie it doesn't matter how many times I burn it on another dvd I still have seen it.
"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
Its not like they put "WoW" next to "Blizzard" and people went "Omg what is that. never heared of it"....
People knew who was making that game. Blizzard used its SInglePlayer Reputation to push their MMO.
And EQ2 was riding on the reputation of EQ1, didn't get them very far. WoW didn't get 8 million subscribers because people said, "Oh, I've heard of that." They got 8 million subscribers because 1 million people bought the game and started telling all their friends how much fun it was and invited them to join and they had fun and they told their friends and so on. Word of mouth is 100 times more powerful than reputation.
WoW. Too much there to respond to. I'd love to argue with you on this, but somehow I don't think you would listen objectively.
i think WoW just has waaaaaay to much hype, when it isent really all that good
Regardless of *why* WoW is so damned popular, I have to agree that I am just about sick to death of hearing about it.
I can't wait until the day that someone says... "Hey... do you remember WoW?"
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Can't agree more with the OP.
Last time I was suggestion some features that I liked from Neverwinter Nights 1 private servers in a Neverwinter Nights 2 forum section of PW. Some idiots immediately called me try to copy WOW, while in fact 1. There was nothing alike 2. NWN1 was long before WOW existed.
One thing we can be certain that, most people like to compare things to the "first" thing they have ever get to know in this category. In this case, WOW is the first MMO most WOW fans ever played. Their view is very limited. Many of them even think WOW is the mother of all MMO that started this category of games.
We can also agree on that WOW is the most successful MMO up to date. It means nothing about how good it is. Just like movies, go check the box office of movies. Many lower rated movies are in fact having 10x higher box office than better movies. Some garbag movies could get way over 100 million box office in the US while some much better movies get 6 million only. It has nothing to do with the quality itself, but more like who can hyper up more who will sell best.
For the gameplay part, WOW has nothing new. And is still considered an ordinary grinding to me. Those "quests" ARE indeed grinding. Not even new.
Stop compare things to this piece of crap.
I actually beta tested WoW. I remember thinking... uh... is this it? It was "cute", but it certainly didn't impress me much. It has always bothered me how well WoW has done. It's not all that special, and the fact that people buy into it like they do simply reduces my faith in humanity.
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I have yet to see a single mmorpg that has outstanding reviews from the players. Every forum about every game has quite a few people entertaining us with shouts of "omg this game sux" and "This is not as cool as wow, it should have <feature of wow> and then it would be cool" or "wowites suck you shoul stop being a tool and play <insert low rated low player base game here>"
I took a while to get to my point and here it is: They all kind of suck and could use improvement, every last dam game out. Not because the developers suck, but because we will pay for a half finished game and keep paying for subscriptions month after month in hopes that they will get there act together.
This is your take on it, and one that is widely held. I have a different opinion, however.
Before WoW, games were different. While you think Blizzard was dedicated to pushing out a "ready" product, I have a different take on it. I think Blizzard changed the industry by putting out a game with a hugely known intellectual property with a highly recognizable name, yesterday's graphics and gameplay "borrowed" from all previous MMORPG's. Solid to be sure, but with very little innovation and an embarrasingly repetitive end game.
Companies who do try and put out games with leading edge graphics and innovative gameplay will just not see the level of success Blizzard has attained with World of Warcraft. Why should anyone bother to make an MMORPG that is truly great when they can pump something out with pretty, low poly colorfully bloomy graphics, easy 1-2-3 quests and hand-me-down gameplay?
Yeah, Blizzard sure did change the industry. Definitely for the worse in this cowboys opinion.
And yet people continue to pay developers when they release half-finished games
Following your argument, it's easy to see why WoW did so well. Blizzard produced a game that sucked less than the other MMORPGs. That's the same thing they did with Warcraft and Starcraft - these game had no great innovations to the RTS-genre, they just sucked less than the others out there
But Blizzard did do one thing truly revolutionary with WoW, they released a MMORPG whose fundamental game engine was solid and free of any major bugs. The launch of WoW was horrible but that was because of overloaded servers from unexpected, record-breaking sales. The game engine itself was operational and working without major flaws months before release.
One wonders if WoW would have 8 million subscribers today if they had the same game-breaking bugs at launch like so many other MMORPGs that are released before they are finished.
I agree, Blizzard has always been very good at making money. And you are probably right... the popularity of WoW is most likely due to it's design as a moron-friendly game. And, since the majority of people are idiots (I've dealt with the general public for years in sales, trust me, this is fact) I suppose that would indeed explain it.
I am not endorsing any particular game in my expression of distaste in WoW's popularity. I am sick of hearing about WoW the same way I am sick of hearing people try to argue against global warming. WoW is just a video game, and not a very impressive one at that. Global warming is real, and that sucks too.
I agree with you here. Every MMORPG out there needs improvement. And you are also correct, the developers are not the problem. It's the companies that employ the developers. The decision to release a game which really should still be in closed beta and finish development while the game is live is a business decision. SoE is the perfect example of this. It's more about the money than the game, which unfortunately means gamers aren't going to get a good game until an indy company pulls out some serious title and polishes it before release. I tried holding my breath, but I start breathing every time I pass out.
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Exactly. I am currently not subscribed to an MMORPG specifically because there is nothing currently attracting my attention. There are a couple coming out that I might like to try. We'll see how that goes.
Exactly. Rather than breaking ground... do just enough to get by without having to work too hard.
This is due to a severe lack of innovation. There are no bugs because the engine isn't really all that special. The graphics are pretty chunky, allowing for low lag due to low polygon counts. The textures are cartoony and lack complexity, so there's another performance gain. In fact, the graphics sort of remind me of a playstation game with better shaders and slightly higher resolution.
I would be willing to bet that it would have no where NEAR the same number of players. I played EQ2 starting a week or two after launch (1st week of Dec '04) and people left in droves for WoW due to technical issues and system requirement dissapointments for my entire stay with EQ2 (which ended January '06).
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