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Did SOE prove no matter how much better you make your game, first impressions are most important?
Foodoolaws
Member Posts: 212
Many claim EQ2 is the best mmorpg on the market. So how come the lack of new players? Why hasnt it broke a million dollar point? is it because its first impression was so horrible no matter how great they make the game it will still never reach fame and glory of a great mmo?
Comments
It my case, I am trying to persuade family/friends to play but they refuse after being burned on Vanguard.
So, they insist on waiting for Warhammer and Age of Conan.
I am downloading the LotRings Online preorder while typing this, but unless this game is extraordinary, I do not think they are going to play another MMORPG (other than wow) until War or AoC.
So, if my friends/family would go to EQ 2, I would enthusiastically. I am going to test LotRings Online for everyone and either recommend to them they play or do not play.
It my case, I am trying to persuade family/friends to play but they refuse after being burned on Vanguard.
So, they insist on waiting for Warhammer and Age of Conan.
I am downloading the LotRings Online preorder while typing this, but unless this game is extraordinary, I do not think they are going to play another MMORPG (other than wow) until War or AoC.
So, if my friends/family would go to EQ 2, I would enthusiastically. I am going to test LotRings Online for everyone and either recommend to them they play or do not play. Make sure you get beyond the "noob instance" and into the "world". Look around. The game is very subtle and it takes a bit to realy get an appreciation for what a good job they have done.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Good job SOE. Hope you do that with VG.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
Actually, I think SOE would have a hard time proving (A->B)->(~A^B).
(Hint: "->": implies, "~": not, "^": or)
Some of the original developers for the original EQ left and formed a new company. This company we all know is Mythic Entertainment. Mythic made a good game with probably the best pvp of any game for the past 5 or so years. The game Dark Age of Camelot! At the time SOE had just released Luclin for EQ. Was a very good expansion. About 4-6 months after mythic released DAOC Sony online entertainment released its new mmorpg that was suppose to take the market by storm! In conjunction with Lucas Films/Entertainment Star Wars Galaxies was released.
SOE lost some of its player base to mythic. DAOC was doing well. Less than 3 months after the release of luclin SOE announced planes of power for its next expansion with EQ. SOE also had success with Star Wars galaxies at the time. But then SOE wanted more money. At this time they hear in the air about Blizzard and its World of Warcraft. So the change for SOE came at this time. They decided to buy out Lucas entertainments % and claim SWG for themselves. Once that was complete SOE decided to turn directions on the SWG playerbase and introduce extreme nerfs on classes as well as talk about the release of NGE. SOE lost more people in that one episode at one single time than any game company has in its existance. To make up for the loss in SWG sony changed its marketing plan with EQ, as well as announced EQII on the horizon(to compete with WOW).
EQ after 6 expansions started pumping out expansions at a rate of 4 times a year. EQII was announced to be released at the same time as WOW. The difference, WOW was already in beta when EQII was still in its development stage. SOE had litterally killed SWG, the EQ player base had shrunk by over 50%. The trickle of bad relationships with the gaming community caught up to SOE. SOE kept its promise and released EQ II pretty close or before WOW was released. The game at the time needed a top heavy system. SOE started the good system thing with EQ Luclin. The game EQII was also not complete(Any vanguard players see a similarity?)
EQII started out horrible. The funny thing is the same developers that worked on EQII are mostly responsible for SOEs newest mmo Vanguard. The better of the orginal EQ developers went to Mythic.The ones left made EQII and now Vanguard. Will EQII ever get a million fanbase. I doubt it. Too many new games coming out this year. the developers for Sigil(Most ex-EQ/EQII developers) still have the same ideology which caused EQIIs initial downfall. The same downfall Vanguard is experiencing now.
By the time EQII looks to be promising other titles will have been released.
Besides, why would you trust the same people over and over again after messing up 2 good games and pre-releasing two others?
That is SOEs track record for mmos. I just dont see it happening.
Until the Developers with SOE change the ideology I do not see any chance of any SOE sponsered mmo making it.
I was impressed by it when I started playing it. But everything started to feel like a repetition of what i just had done, and that bored the hell out of me. That's why I quit EQ2, just a few weeks ago. I had all 3 expansions + all 3 adv. packs.
So for me, it was opposite of what you talk about. Great first impressions, boring game.
Oh, and I was NOT impressed by 18-20 hours update downloads. I have 1.5 Mb/s DSL, the slow updates wasn't because of any issues on my system. Everything else was fast enough.
SOE did not make Vanguard. Geez, I've never defended people slandering SOE but to rag on Vanguard and blame SOE makes no sense at all. And all this missinformation just further propogates the SOE is the root of all evil ideal. If yer gonna hate on Vanguard, at least blame the people who made it not the people who advertised/packaged it.
Arioc Murkwood
Environment Artist
Sad but true.
EQ, well... thats a matter of opinion. I never enjoyed it and am still quite happy that I never paid to play that thing. Ultima Online was where it was at back then
I think that the problems SOE faces are at least 2 pronged. First being that they, as an entity of Sony, have run their own name into the ground. Their attitude of we know what you want to play and screw you if you think otherwise. Secondly is the bad press they have recieved, rightfully so, for running a game like SWG into the ground. Here they had scored a huge coup by getting the license to the single most recognizable sci-fi license, arguably in the world, and going no where with it. Whether or not it was Sony or Lucas Arts no one seems to care because it's sony's servers, sony's billing, sony's support, and sony's people that talk so much bullsh*t that cattle ranches can not compare.
I'll give sony some credit for bailing out the guy that they started on the path to developing mmo games but at the same time, they didn't exactly trust the guy enough to float him more cash to get his game ready for launch properly lol.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
i hope you mean million subscriber point...
the game itself costs millions of dollars to make.
i hope you mean million subscriber point...
the game itself costs millions of dollars to make. no it doesnt
i hope you mean million subscriber point...
the game itself costs millions of dollars to make. no it doesnt ...
yes, it does.
As I posted in another thread I am not disputing that idealy we wish SOE could have invested in Vanguard rather then saved it. If they perhaps saw it worth investing another million or two for another year of development, sure it could have been better. But I am not going to demonize SOE for not being altruistic and giving their money to sigil. They had a choice, let vanguard die, or help brad ship it now. SOE isn't a robot, they have employee's and families, and the people on top are not going to invest another 5 mill into a moneypit if microsoft already did it and didn't get results. Be glad they even picked it up.
What I'm saying is: Is SOE a benevolant angel of mercy to the MMO market? No. Is SOE at fault for the failure of vanguard? No. So don't blame SOE for vanguard being what it is. When we have millions of dollars and hundreds of employees and upper managment checking our budget, we can descide if we're willing to put our jobs on the line and invest in a project that "might come to something" if we give it another year or two.
Arioc Murkwood
Environment Artist
Sad but true.
i hope you mean million subscriber point...
the game itself costs millions of dollars to make.no it doesnt
Yes it does.
Arioc Murkwood
Environment Artist
Sad but true.
they shouldn't cost that much. Much like movies. Indies tend to have better gameplay and design when coming from a dedicated team as opposed to people who don't give a shit about their product
they shouldn't cost that much. Much like movies. Indies tend to have better gameplay and design when coming from a dedicated team as opposed to people who don't give a shit about their product
as for the devs not being devoted.. i think that employees working on a video game tend to have more devotion then those working on a film. For one they are probably passionate gamers, and have an idea, and also want to see it through. whereas on a film, the people may just be there to get a paycheck.
they shouldn't cost that much. Much like movies. Indies tend to have better gameplay and design when coming from a dedicated team as opposed to people who don't give a shit about their product
as for the devs not being devoted.. i think that employees working on a video game tend to have more devotion then those working on a film. For one they are probably passionate gamers, and have an idea, and also want to see it through. whereas on a film, the people may just be there to get a paycheck.
Very true, before I went to games I worked in a film effects house, and deffinitly people took pride in their individual tasks but weren't nitpicky or suggestive to the art elsewhere. If Joe's job is bubbles for finding nemo joe works on bubbles but could care less if the bumps for fish scales looked bad, joe cares more about looking better then mr fishscale and being retained for the next contract. Holleywood folk are not bad people, they just don't often devote that same childish glee that some game dev's have for their work. The thrill isn't there, it's just a paycheck and a retention bonus.
Arioc Murkwood
Environment Artist
Sad but true.
Indie games -> indie movies, I'd consider the same devotion to the product.
It's not so much the dev's fault. It's the corporation they work for. They want things fast, easy, and most importantly NOW. They must come out now to beat the other competition in order to turn a profit. So gameplay suffers because of it. That's why they pay such obscene amounts. Kinda like the US govt....$60,000 for a toilet seat kinda deal.
Ah well...money screws up gaming experiences! Imagine where we'd be if companies ONLY released well developed, polished products...we can only dream...of course most of the companies probably wouldn't exist long enough to develop the games, because no parent company would pay them a steady salary to actually work at their own pace.
Indie games -> indie movies, I'd consider the same devotion to the product.
It's not so much the dev's fault. It's the corporation they work for. They want things fast, easy, and most importantly NOW. They must come out now to beat the other competition in order to turn a profit. So gameplay suffers because of it. That's why they pay such obscene amounts. Kinda like the US govt....$60,000 for a toilet seat kinda deal.
Ah well...money screws up gaming experiences! Imagine where we'd be if companies ONLY released well developed, polished products...we can only dream...of course most of the companies probably wouldn't exist long enough to develop the games, because no parent company would pay them a steady salary to actually work at their own pace.
So true. So sad. So gimmie a bajillion dollah and let me start my own game company of asian school girl robots! YEE_HAW!
Side note: I do not endorse the use of asian school girl robots for the means of game production nor battling aliens or demons from another dimention. But should said effect occure, I shall cringe behind the giant robots.
Arioc Murkwood
Environment Artist
Sad but true.
Regardless if you like SOE or not it all comes down to the same strategy they have employed for the past 5 years. And that strategy is not working!
Try this. I tried Asheron Call a couple days back to see what it was like these days. There are actually more people playing Asherons Call than EQ and perhaps EQII. Weird huh? Its not that SOE is a bad company. It is the strategy they use for mmos and marketing that is bad.
If I were a guy for SOE I would do my best to change the current ideology. It fails. Example:Vanguard. Vanguard is the 3rd installment of a plan gone awry.
I expect Vanguards first expansion within 3 months. Since the game is not up to par. We will see. Personally I am done with SOE as a whole.
So because some sigil employee's were ex-SOE employee's sigils failure is SOE's fault. Holy crap! Talk about "blame the parents". Appairently if you work for SOE even for a month and go kill someone after you quit, SOE killed that person.
Again, I am not a SOE fanboi I've posted my fair share of flames, but what I don't like is seeing people blame someone else for Sigil's mistakes. I refuse to start a mob and lynch a bystandard for someone elses crime. But I'm an idealist and forums are not known to breed rational or even founded statments. Not to say your statments are false or lacking merit, but I keep an eye on these forums and see alot of pure BS spouted by people claiming it as gospel. My favorite is "This games graphics are better then this game, it's undenyable, you cannot disagree with me! My word is law! My opinion is fact!" stuff like that.
Arioc Murkwood
Environment Artist
Sad but true.
Sigil Games Online Senior Artist, Christian “thor” Akesson, got his start in the game industry with Sony Online Entertainment as an environmental artist on the EverQuest II team. Not too many years later, Christian decided to move on, and luckily enough for all the Vanguard fans, in December 2002, Christian accepted the position he now holds at Sigil. Recently, we at Silky Venom had the good fortune to be able to put some questions to Christian. The resultant interview covers a wide variety of topics. In it you’ll discover how Christian got his start in art, what inspired him, what he’s working on now in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, the process game art goes through from conception all the way to production, and so very much more. It is truly an informative and enjoyable read.
Garret Fern – Associate Game Designer
1. How did you get started in the video game industry?
I worked in First Party Quality Assurance for Sony Computer Entertainment of America.
2. How did that lead to working for Sigil Online Games?
It didn’t. I had wanted to work at Sigil long before I began working at SCEA. FPQA gave me experience in the industry and probably made me more attractive to Sigil, but I was determined to be a part of Sigil one way or another.
3. What is your favorite part about working at Sigil Games Online?
Being around people with whom I share a passion. It’s rare to find a group of people this dedicated to making the best game they know how to make.
And here is a big special.. JUST FOR YOU!!! Since you did mention something about misinformation.!
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/121845 <--read..
LOLOLOLOL
Had to add this..
Towards the end of 1998, 989 Studios shifted its strategy to making PlayStation console games only. The company's computer game/online development branch spun off, initially calling itself RedEye Interactive and then soon after Verant Interactive.
EverQuest was Verant Interactive's breakthrough success and the franchise continues its popularity with Sony Online Entertainment.
EverQuest launched with modest expectations from Sony on March 16, 1999 under its Verant Interactive brand and quickly became successful. Numbers continued rising at a steady rate until mid-2001 when growth slowed. As of 2004, Sony reported subscription numbers close to 450,000.
In April 2000, Verant hired former Ultima Online developers Raph Koster and Rich Vogel forming its office in Austin, Texas to develop Star Wars Galaxies for LucasArts. SOE acquired Verant in June 2000 and eventually promoted Brad McQuaid to be its Chief Creative Officer link. EverQuest: The Ruins of Kunark (March 2000) was the first in a long list of expansions for its hit MMORPG. In October 2001, McQuaid resigned and went on to found Sigil Games Online, drawing many of the original developers of EverQuest from SOE to develop their Vanguard: Saga of Heroes MMORPG, released January 2007.