Is this True to the books?

Tyrranosaur

I've been playing a bit now since 3/30, as I am one of the preorder specials that got an early start. I did a human male champion and have been having some fun. Initial impressions are simple: nice graphics, very nice, smooth game play, lush open worlds, and the quests so far are fun, and I like the instanced story-based events I've seen in the intros so far.

Buuuuut.....the whole time I was playing I got the distinct impression that I was playing WoW, or EQ2, or soemthing very much like those two, around which the lore and story of Lord of the Rings had been loosely draped. It's important that I empahsize that I think this is a great game, and I think that anyone coming to this from the perspective of, "I liked the movies, I like WoW....it's like peanut butter and chocolate" will not be disappointed.

But I let my GF make a character and try it out. She was quickly and happily playing an elf who is blasting small critters with fireballs and running around being very typical for an MMO character, but something snapped in me, and I realized that this isn't really an emulation of the books: it's definitely a game which draws inspiration from them.

Anyway, I think it's important to emphasize (especially on these forums) that I am not dissing the game. I think it's a very well designed piece of software and will provide an excellent outlet to players of other MMOs who are looking for the new, cool thing. I think that the LOTR trappings are going to make this a lot of fun for people to play, and that, to take another example, I'd love to see a Star Wars game done on a subject like this.

But for fans who come from the literary side of the coin, I think the game may disappoint.....but I've got a ways yet to play before I can say for sure. Anyone who's played this more than I have so far, and anyone who's really familiar with the novels, could you help fill me in and let me know if there are more moments in the game that feel a bit truer to the spirit of the fiction than the spirit of the game play? For example, I can't imagine any elvish quests that involve the slaughter of animals.....but my GF and her character seemed to be doing a lot of that. And letting loremasters shoot fireballs is a good move from a gameplay standpoint, but from the context of the novels it's just nutty. Finally, even in the character bios when picking my class characters were described less in terms of role play elements and more in terms of "DPS, Tank, Nuker, etc.." which tells me that down the road there will be instance events that involve more wargame-like "plan and attack" moments typical of MMOs than "story based role playing groups." But I could eb wrong.

Anyway, just curious on whether anyone can shed some light on this. I think this will be a great game, but I also think that the spirit of an MMO may not mesh as well as I'd hoped with the spirit of the books..... 

dj_decay

I don't know - I guess it's a very subjective topic and different people will have different reactions.  I'm a HUGE fan of the books, so much so that I was kind of disappointed in the PJ movies (though they are GREAT!) - playing LOTRO, for me, is like being IN the books, it really is - the first time I saw the shire, had a hobbit NPC say 'hello' to me and thank me for the work I was doing (this happens once you becoem a 'bounder'), I was totally drawn into the world.  I made a point of finding special landmarks - the party tree and Bag End were my first stops, and right there in front of Bag End was Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, as would be totalyl appropriate during this part of the timeline.  It's all these little details that make me feel that, while I'm not in 'the book' itself, I'm a real part in a living, breating Middle Earth.  I'm absolutely stunned on a daily basis by the feelings this world generates, seeing a bridge or a landmark that literally takes me back to a memory directly form the book, like Bilbo's stone trolls - I saw them and sat in the middle of them and said 'Bilbo was right here, as these lumbering trolls were talking about squashing him into jelly'....  I don't think Turbine has created a 'Middle Earth Emulator', but I also think they're done an absolutely amazing job at creating a rich, living world which absolutely does justice to the source material and even, in some places, goes a step beyond. 

You did mention Loremasters - I don't see them as being inappropriate to the lore, I see them for what they are - a good compromise to bring a needed mechanic into the game, as you cannot have a fantasy MMO without a 'wizard' class.  I think I was more disturbed by not having Tom Bombadil in the movies than I am seeing an elven Lore Master torching a wolf with a burning pine-cone....

Tyrranosaur

Thanks for the insight.....it give me hope. I guess, as with most all MMOs, one has to ignore too much of what's going on around you with other players; don't think of it as a world filled with flame-shooting loremasters, so much as "my group has a flame-shooting loremaster."

Plus I guess there's always the "I want to play Gandalf," side of things.....hmmmm.

But it's nice to know that the attention to detail drawn from the novels is there. If you can meet Tom Bombadill in the game, then I guess I'll have to keep playing just for that.

I first read The novels in 1980 and I've re-read them once every couple of years since. I suppose that an MMO working to emulate the feel of the books and the setting is not something to be dismissed so easily.....I'd rather play this anyway than the RTS games on the same IP, heh!

 

virtuella

There is one thing where they are not true to the books.

Not even close.



Middle earth has been scaled down big time.

Ingame a trip from Bree town to Hobbiton takes about 15 minutes on foot.



In the books that distance is about 125 miles if you look on the various middle earth maps on the net based on the books.



That means my minstrel can run 600 miles an hour



Or it means that the worldsize has been scaled down approx 60 times.

Unknown

Originally posted by virtuella

There is one thing where they are not true to the books.

Not even close.



Middle earth has been scaled down big time.

Ingame a trip from Bree town to Hobbiton takes about 15 minutes on foot.



In the books that distance is about 125 miles if you look on the various middle earth maps on the net based on the books.



That means my minstrel can run 600 miles an hour



Or it means that the worldsize has been scaled down approx 60 times.

You would never get anywhere if this was middle earth every inch an mile.

virtuella

Originally posted by -O_O-

Originally posted by virtuella

There is one thing where they are not true to the books.

Not even close.



Middle earth has been scaled down big time.

Ingame a trip from Bree town to Hobbiton takes about 15 minutes on foot.



In the books that distance is about 125 miles if you look on the various middle earth maps on the net based on the books.



That means my minstrel can run 600 miles an hour



Or it means that the worldsize has been scaled down approx 60 times.

You would never get anywhere if this was middle earth every inch an mile.

Sure you would but it would just take time to get from place to place



/tell player :Hey buddie,want to go out and group some,,I'm in Hobbiton atm.

/player tells you:Sure but i'm in Breetown.Give me 13 hours and i will be there.

allegria

I belive they did a very nice job weaving a story within a story so to speak. We can talk about logistics and scale but I think that is more about ( is this a ME simulator ) or a game that takes place in ME.

The supporting story they have fills in the gaps around The Fellowship of the Ring very nicely. Although you are not side by side with the Fellowship, you are doing alot of supporting tasks to help them get along their way. If you read the Fellowship of the Ring closely you will find that there are things mentioned or glanced over, this is where LOTRO picks up.

For example, Elrond speaks of his sons, doing something very important in the North. Also, while reading Fellowship, you being to realize the "help" that frodo had along the way. For one, Aragorn and the rangers scouting and supporting his travels ( indirectly for the mostpart). This is where the story of LOTRO goes deep. Its a very interesting approach and clever imo.

So the answer in my mind is yes, they are very true to the books, or as true as an MMO can be. One thing that is not accurate, is the fact that we are all heros of middle earth. As we know from reading the books, the biggest heros of middle earth turned out to be Hobbits. They didnt kill 100000 boars to reach their goal. They were ordinary people in an extraordinary situation, doing the best they could. I have to say, that feeling is not captured in the game. However, since we are all "heros" of middle earth as players, it is interesting how they balance between our story being epic, while crossing paths with the real Epic story, without going against or staying true to the novels.

 

-Allegria

severius

Originally posted by Tyrranosaur


I've been playing a bit now since 3/30, as I am one of the preorder specials that got an early start. I did a human male champion and have been having some fun. Initial impressions are simple: nice graphics, very nice, smooth game play, lush open worlds, and the quests so far are fun, and I like the instanced story-based events I've seen in the intros so far.
Buuuuut.....the whole time I was playing I got the distinct impression that I was playing WoW, or EQ2, or soemthing very much like those two, around which the lore and story of Lord of the Rings had been loosely draped. It's important that I empahsize that I think this is a great game, and I think that anyone coming to this from the perspective of, "I liked the movies, I like WoW....it's like peanut butter and chocolate" will not be disappointed.
But I let my GF make a character and try it out. She was quickly and happily playing an elf who is blasting small critters with fireballs and running around being very typical for an MMO character, but something snapped in me, and I realized that this isn't really an emulation of the books: it's definitely a game which draws inspiration from them.
Anyway, I think it's important to emphasize (especially on these forums) that I am not dissing the game. I think it's a very well designed piece of software and will provide an excellent outlet to players of other MMOs who are looking for the new, cool thing. I think that the LOTR trappings are going to make this a lot of fun for people to play, and that, to take another example, I'd love to see a Star Wars game done on a subject like this.
But for fans who come from the literary side of the coin, I think the game may disappoint.....but I've got a ways yet to play before I can say for sure. Anyone who's played this more than I have so far, and anyone who's really familiar with the novels, could you help fill me in and let me know if there are more moments in the game that feel a bit truer to the spirit of the fiction than the spirit of the game play? For example, I can't imagine any elvish quests that involve the slaughter of animals.....but my GF and her character seemed to be doing a lot of that. And letting loremasters shoot fireballs is a good move from a gameplay standpoint, but from the context of the novels it's just nutty. Finally, even in the character bios when picking my class characters were described less in terms of role play elements and more in terms of "DPS, Tank, Nuker, etc.." which tells me that down the road there will be instance events that involve more wargame-like "plan and attack" moments typical of MMOs than "story based role playing groups." But I could eb wrong.
Anyway, just curious on whether anyone can shed some light on this. I think this will be a great game, but I also think that the spirit of an MMO may not mesh as well as I'd hoped with the spirit of the books..... 

Are the mechanics similar to any number of other mmos from Eq through WoW to Vanguard?

Undoubtedly yes.  You have the hotbar/quickslot skills that you fire off from one fight to the next, many times in the same order.  This is not a mechanic that I believe turbine set out to rewrite.  There are some nice additions but some of those too we have seen in other games though not in a verbatim sort of way.  For example conjunctions.



Has the lore of Lord of the Rings been "loosely draped" around these mechanics?

I do not believe so.  The lore of the IP has, in my experience, been poured into every nook and cranny of the game.  From the racial selections, character customizations, class selections to the quests, locations, and everything else.  But it is, as you say, a video game that draws its inspriation from the books, which is what Turbine set out to do.



Would this work for a star wars game?

Well, it did... for a while.  See Star Wars Galaxies allowed you to live your life in the star wars universe.  Until the devs and producers got this idiotic idea that people didnt want that, that they all wanted to be Luke Skywalkers, Boba Fetts and Darth Vaders.  Had SWG had 1/10th of the content that LotRO has it would have most likely had a much larger following but, by releasing 6mos to a year too early they shot themselves in the foot.



Disappointing to the fans of the written work?

Far from it.  For one thing the lore has been handled very carefully.  Your path as a player criss crosses that of the fellowship in different places while you continue on your goal of battling the evil that is pouring forth from Angmar.  This game that we are currently playing doesnt have the fellowship having been formed yet.  If you take a lengthy run down the East West road into the Trollshaws you will, if you make the correct turns , find yourself in Rivendell.  You will see a good number of the fellowship lounging around in different places.  Clearly it is after Frodo gets stabbed by the morgul blade, and then is healed, but the fact that Narsil still lies shattered on a table and that Frodo doesnt have Sting at his side tells me that they are far from heading out.

Going into the old forest and seeing Tom Bombadil, Old Man Willow and Goldberry are "whoa" types of events.  Seeing Frodo's house in Crickhollow with the shattered front door and poor Fatty Bolger standing there...  going on one of the chapter quests in the Great Barrow and having Tom Bombadil burst in and save everyone's backside all feel Tolkienesque.  There are alot more but why should I spoil all the fun thats coming up



Suffice it to say, coming from someone that has read all the books around 15 times total, that I believe Turbine has both handled the Lore with great care and allowed for players to make their own way in a story that feels somewhat important to the overall scheme.  The Witch Kings fortress in Angmar is mentioned and there is information in the Simarillon that states that there was an evil rising in the north but the trilogy didnt go into that at all.  It was focused on the ring bearer and his journey.



I felt much the same as yourself, especially in the earlier stages of the beta.  Minstrels and Loremasters seemed silly and didnt feel right at first.  However, with that said, there is ALOT of stuff that tolkien didnt pour into the trilogy.  The events of the ring bearer only cover a couple pages total in the silmarillon.  What you read about in the Lord of the Rings is only a small small part of the overall story and with the help of the Tolkien estate Turbine has done a good job of fleshing that out.



Now, of course there are some issues with it being an MMO.  The Barrow Downs are filled with people which takes alot of the sense of danger out of the area, and this comes up in a number of other areas as well.  The way I look at it in a RP perspective is this:  As the ring bearer is getting closer to mordor Aragorn decides to ride to the front gates with a huge army and unveil himself as the heir of Isildur.  This is a feint, designed to draw the eye of Sauron away from his defense.  That is what all of us are, a feint, a distraction.  We are drawing resources and attention away from the pursuit of the ring bearer.

gpett

For whatever reason, I did not feel like I was in middle earth.  This game failed to capture me.  Yes I have read the books several times, and I feel the movies did a better job at recreating the epic look and feel of middle earth.



This game does not feel epic or grand.  There isn't a feeling of impending doom.

jnn4v

The devs have made it clear that lore masters are NOT wizards. They don't do magic or have spells, but they use the forces of nature and call upon the ancient lore. It's a fine line, but that's the story. And same with minstrels versus healers. There are no "healers" in the game, and there's no HP or MP. There is "morale" and "power". So when you lose a fight you don't "die" you "retreat". Minstrels play their songs to either inspire the morale of their comrades or lower the morale of opponents. It all functions basically the same as other games, but the terminology and details of how it works have definitely been carefully woven into Tolkien's lore.

- Jeremy (jnn4v)

jnn4v

The further you play in the game, the further the sense of impending doom seems to come. I got to lvl 38 in closed beta and I was still only through book 4 of the epic plot out of the 8 books. I can assure you that, having played a lvl 50 character on the last day of open beta, book 5 chapter 8 gives a very good sense of impending doom as you see a 200,000 HP Arch-Nemesis class dragon next to a Nazgul and they're plotting the demise of the Free Peoples of Middle Earth. Give it some time and get further along, and I'm sure you won't be disappointed. However, to warn you, there are still a bunch more "kill 15 boars" or "collect 10 bear hides" type quests between lvl 15 and the really fun parts of the epic plot.

- Jeremy (jnn4v)

dand3

Given that this is a game, I think they've done a remarkable job in keeping the style and flavor of the books.  I was only hoping that they wouldn't mess it up, but they've done far better than that.

They've done well with the game elements too.

Draenor

Rediculously hard core fanboys will probably complain that some parts aren't 100% true to the books...but for the average person who has read the books once, and seen the movies, you will definitely be pleased with how close the game stays to the books...the storyline actually mirrors the fellowship, which aids in keeping the player feeling like he is involved with the world.