how big is the world?

URMAKER

i was wondering how big the actual world area is let's say compared to wow is there more or less area to explore? i'm guessing the areas are sorta like every other game where theres a forest area, desert area, snow area ,etc,etc.

jnn4v

To answer your question, the initial release of LoTRO only includes the region of Eriador. Eriador contains several regions, including the Shire, Breeland, Ered Luin, the Lone Lands, the North Downs, Angmar, the Misty Mountains, etc. Each of these sub-regions has many cities in it (ie. the Shire has Hobbiton, Michael Delving, Brockenborings, Stock, etc) and each sub-region takes probably 10-15 minutes to run across if you go in a straight line and don't stop to fight or explore. So it's pretty massive.



Now, take into account that Eriador is only one of half a dozen regions in Middle Earth, and the fact that Turbine will be releasing additional regions (ie. Gondor, Rohan, etc) in future expansions down the road, and you'll begin to get a feel for how massive this is going to be in a couple years.

- Jeremy (jnn4v)

dand3

For me, it's not the sheer size; size alone, without enough content is not a good thing (see VG).  There have been guesses that this first portion is about 2/3 the size of WoW; but what I think is more important is that it is very dense; in the areas I've visited, the points of interest are pretty well packed in, with a lot of variety.  Towns, farms, ruins, forests, apiary, and on and on. 

jnn4v

Originally posted by dand3

For me, it's not the sheer size; size alone, without enough content is not a good thing (see VG).  There have been guesses that this first portion is about 2/3 the size of WoW; but what I think is more important is that it is very dense; in the areas I've visited, the points of interest are pretty well packed in, with a lot of variety.  Towns, farms, ruins, forests, apiary, and on and on. 

Totally agree. Excellent points.

- Jeremy (jnn4v)

Wraithmire

I heard the size of LOTRO right now is 60% of size that WoW is, plus they have lots of lands to add in the middle earth universe and maybe even lands that weren't mentioned or were briefly mentioned in the books. I say start out smaller but with quality...than start out huge with big empty plots of land. Coming from Vanguard, sure the world is kinda small, but at least its filled with interesting things like ruins, creatures, etc...

Firanydd

I have been playing during the different betas since November, and have yet to explore all of the areas.  As a previous reply indicated, the growth potential here is great.  Turbine will be able to expand/grow along the story line.  At what pace, I do not know.  As also written, the detail is tremendous, and the graphics are going for a different goal (then WoW, which I also play), of obtaining the world as envisioned in the books.  This is the success Turbine has accomplished.  I mean Rivendell looks a lot like the Rivendell, Tolkien originally painted in art-work.  Thorin's hall gives the feel of massiveness you read about in the books.  While Turbine has the ability to expanded along the story line, they have obviously left little pockets here and there, cave or mine entrances, boundaries that could allow for expansion in the immediate realm without moving out into the story line.  I applaud Turbine for their effort.

Lukain

At Launch LOTRO will be 50,000,000 Sq Meters

dand3

Something I forgot; there are two beginning areas, one for Hobbits and Men, and one for Elves and Dwarves.  Then there are four low level areas, one for each race.  It takes a while to run from one of those areas to another, but it is not unreasonable; this means that friends and guilds can meet fairly easily.  And there's no faction nonsense to grind through to be able to meet.

URMAKER

sweet i can't wait. only 2 more days now

Talyn

Tobald measured the current Middle Earth based on Turbine's statements, and came up with just under 20 square miles.

Meridion

Which is - compared to other MMOGs - not very big.



BUT: I know I repeat myself, this is only the startup-package. Turbine is not planning on adding small non-world-content bit by bit like other companies did, but to frequently add large scale new areas. So by the time you've seen just about everything in LotRO I expect some new expansion coming up...



Another important fact is: You can screw up small worlds big time like Everquest 2 did with "Shattered Isles instant teleport travelling service - From Ice to Fire in 20 seconds", but its REALLY a lot harder to make a small world feel tight and too full than to make a large world feel empty and boring. Actually, every "whoa this ones large project" messed up or did not gain its success from the worldsize. Examples are numerous: DnL, Horizons, SWG, Vanguard...



I think THE one thing that makes a mmorpg-world fun is the world/discovery ratio. How much world do i have to see to actually GET somewhere and DO something. Too much to DO in a small world, hello Everquest 2, Too much to explore to actually find anything, hello Dark and Light...



From what I've seen this far, LotRO does an amazing job there...



Meridion



EdiT: that reminds me of an hilarious moment in EQ2, when I first entered the continent "Zek"... I was like... oh boy, Zek - The Orcish Wastes, endless cliffs, scattered rocks, sandy, forgotten lands, hideos Orcs lurking in spots where nobody hears you scream. So I'm stepping out of this fortress, right, into an Army of Orcs just standing there, as if the battle for Berlin had come to a halt in the very moment of victory/defeat. I wander on, and I meet more orcs in an area thats divided in football field sized, round, flat valleyish brown mini-areas that are only missing the "Next field - goblins" sign to fit the "generic evil creature" clichee 100%.

So I find myself in the ORCISH WASTES and realise that, for SOE; nomen actually EST omen. This zone is "wasting orcs", for 10 levels, here you go...

Actually in my years of playing its been the probably the worst designed environment I have ever encountered, from DaoC to DnL, nothing comes close to "generic orcish mob area, grinding hours from 9 to 5"...

Khaunshar

Its sheer landmass is about 60-70% of WoW on initial launch, 50-60% of Guild Wars Prophecies, 80% of GW Factions, 2 planets in SWG, 25% of Vanguard, 70% of pre-Kunark EQ1 ...... or 1.5 realms of FFXI. Its not huge, but its not as pea-sized as many make it out to be. The primary problem is that in the first half of level range, almost every square metre is used somehow, and populated with people (not so much mobs). There are very VERY few secluded areas where you arent sent to as part of a quest or virtue trait, and nowhere to get a break from masses of players steamrolling through during prime time.



The instancing does alleviate the problem in the storyline missions though.



All in all I am not very happy with the size, but it works for progressing. I imagine roleplayers or explorers are better off waiting for the intiial rush to die down, or hope turbine launches servers later that are less populated.

Meridion

65% of WoW is large scale for only four races to level up I guess. Still I take a bte that the expansions wont be dropping in every 2 years like in WoW ^^



Meridion

Tautology

The world is quite small as the previous posters have already stated, e.g. you can ride on a horse from bree through half of the map in about 5-6 minutes.  Although you have many quests some interesting but most the standard mmorpg quests it may get boring after a while because everything feels very "scripted" and instanced.  By instancing many areas you have the advantage that many players do not stand on each others feet.

Meridion

Let me recap this, it takes 5-6 minutes to cross half of the world map, it takes 10-15 minutes to cross one zone of the map, the world is about 65% of WoW and its 1.5 planets in SWG large...



HELLOOOOOOOO, are you playing the same game? May I state some facts on listed games here?



crossing Azeroth by foot from Booty Bay to the pass of Quel-Thalas -> takes 42 minutes with no transportation

crossing Commonlands in EQ2 from Nektulos to Freeport -> takes 6 minutes

crossing Tatooine from Jabbas Palace to the northeastern corner of the map -> takes 70 minutes (16km)



If you can cross half of the map in 5 minutes by horse, either the horse is superfast, or the route is not a real cross-route, or your watch has a serious problem with time-measurement...



meridion^^

Tautology

Originally posted by Meridion

Let me recap this, it takes 5-6 minutes to cross half of the world map, it takes 10-15 minutes to cross one zone of the map, the world is about 65% of WoW and its 1.5 planets in SWG large...



HELLOOOOOOOO, are you playing the same game? May I state some facts on listed games here?



crossing Azeroth by foot from Booty Bay to the pass of Quel-Thalas -> takes 42 minutes with no transportation

crossing Commonlands in EQ2 from Nektulos to Freeport -> takes 6 minutes

crossing Tatooine from Jabbas Palace to the northeastern corner of the map -> takes 70 minutes (16km)



If you can cross half of the map in 5 minutes by horse, either the horse is superfast, or the route is not a real cross-route, or your watch has a serious problem with time-measurement...



meridion^^

As somebody else has posted here on the forums:

From bree to lone lands in 6 minutes: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxIJerzvHt0

Khaunshar

I was talking landmass, as in square-kilometres of landscape, including some dungeon/instanced area stuff when making the comparison to other games' size. It takes 5-6 minutes to pass a map (which equals a region, there are multiple regions) and I ll be the first to admit that on a horizontal scale, the locations are very close to each other, and if you pick clear routes with the (pretty fast) horse mounts, you can indeed cut through a sizeable portion of the east-west span in a short time. Nevertheless, its not a big world, whether its small or ok is more or less a matter of taste, and the fast travel times stem from zone design and ease of travel, not so much lacking square kilometres total.

Meridion

Which is not half of the map and even if it was, the road you take there is straight on a superfast horseback. I can ride from Ashenvale to Tanaris in WoW in 10 minutes with a 210% horse an tell the world what a tiny game WoW is ^^... still as I said, if I take the normal, windy route from Booty Bay to Quel Thalas pass it takes forever ^^

so what the video tells me is "hey theres plenty of space you can go to offtrack and see stuff", in contrast to games like Everquest where theres either unclimbable cliff 30 meters from the path or invisible oceanish wall because you are not supposed to get anywhere ^^



Meridion

Khaunshar

I think we are essentially saying the same here: that travel time isnt indicative for the size of the world, cause travel routes in LotR are very straightforward and easy to run through, while most of the "world" is located away from them. The world isnt large, but the often touted travel times arent really suited to measuring it up against other games.

Meridion

Khaunshar, as i said earlier, it all depends on how much you have to DO to get somewhere, if your journey from "generic serene birthplace with funny flowers and cats" to "generic ultimate lava zone with fire and doomkin demons of evil hell" takes 10 levels and 5 minutes of travelling time, that IS strange und unrewarding.

As far as i have seen LOTRO, it doesnt trigger this trap, many many other games did with various levels of impact. I would advice, and I know thats not apropriate but I would anyways - a mmo designer to look at SNES zelda or mystic quest. The world there is tiny tiny tiny, but how you progress and the different zones seamlessly fit is just good work. Im getting carried away but you can stop reading anytime ^^ ... or Oblivion, where the different climates of heath and swamp, mountain and summer-wood are glued together in a perfect way. Sure, that game has its flaws, but the environment technique is superb. What is important here is definitely that its believable, swamp DOES connect to normal wood but does NOT connect to desert or ice-desert. Extreme climate has to be secluded whereas normal climate can coexist perfectly along say, a river or zone. The problem with mmo designers mostly is that they have no friggin clue how nature actually looks like and works, and the examples that did like DnL where SO realistic that they reached the ultimate goal, they are as boring as going hiking in the woods, you see woods, and woods, and... hold on, woods -.-



Meridion



EDIT: Wrote this one before your post, so yea, I agree but wanted to share my thoughts ^^ happens quite often



EDIT: Oh yea, and MMO designers in general should develop some sense of "Big Rock Show"-Attitude. Guild Wars was pretty good at this and WoW to a limited scale, but this could be carried much further, like in, again, Nintendo 64 Zelda, where Boss monsters or dungeon events appear suddenly and impressively. More Hollywood, less Happy miniature train world *g*... And no, thats not nostalgia, I played Zelda few months ago on an emu and it still gave me the creeps at certain bosses or cutscenes. Those guys just know their business I guess ^^

EDIT2: Muahaha, you dont have to read this, but, and for gods sake, change the friggin sound at certain events or bosses. If a dragon shows up, make it a "youre in mortal danger and you gonna die if you dont stay 100% sharp"-tune. Look at the sound in Guildwars and compare to disasters like EQ2 or SWG... Music is such a powerful element of media, and MMO designers just throw that tool away... well yea, soundtrack, okok, make something up, like a march for dwarves and something mystical for elves, that should do... -.-

EDIT3: And I KNOW that designers have limited amounts of time and manpower, than, damn it, kill the face modeler. 95% of the time you dont see your face anyways, and if you do you zoom in for a second and thats it. Games like EQ2 or Vanguard spend countless weeks and months on perfectionating stupid face expression, facial hair or things like that, just to find players covered in hoods or helmets watching themselves from behind all the time. Thats SO ridiculous... ... I just cant stop ^^