Originally posted by neschria If Sony is keeping The Matrix Online up, there's little chance they'll toss Vanguard. I am looking forward to checking out Vanguard in 6 months or a year from now when my real life settles down and I have the money that I feel I can spend on a new computer. I figure by then the major kinks will be worked out. I am pretty confident that the game will still be there waiting for me.
Bolded part QFT. If MxO is still hanging in there, SOE won't be dropping VSoH any time soon. Low subscription numbers may only result in Sigil spending less in maintenance and updates.
As for the rest of the quote, I agree. Personally, I've made the mistake investing in a broken game: SWG. VSoH has some interesting concepts, so I'm willing to keep watching and see what direction SOE/Sigil take. I'll not pay for 'potential' again.
If in 6 months I see improvement in quality (ie. less bugs , less performance issues), then I'll most likely subscribe.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Welp i find being from UO, AC1,AC2, SWG, COV, EvE, Ragnarok, L2, SB, EaB, EQ2, WoW, Daoc, Horizons, that Vagard is a pretty shitty game and wont go far. Actually it has already gone as far as it will ever go and that was the day of release. I cannot believe they charged us $50 for this pos, clearly that was only to try and cover the huge amount of money SOE knew they were going to lose with this steaming pile of an mmo. No way is this pos worth $50. So many other games had a better product at launch, but if people keep buying into the dream of a perfect mmo I guess we will see much more of these types of pos launches from mmo's. I also feel that if this does become a common practice there needs to be a way to get a refund for the purchase, its pretty much like buying shit in a box. I think its BS that they got away with my $50. If anything we should be able to sue them for emotional distress because in the weeks I played this game I got pissed off more then had fun.
I am trying to get you Grunch For one SWG was 49.95+29.95x3 for the expan. then WoW was 39.95+ its expan both you pay $15 a month for is it you don't want to pay this or is WoW more to your train of thought? One of the only reasons I have seen why someone doesn't like this game is because they have to think before you acted.
Please tell me all about how Vanguard has revolutionized the mmorpg market by making a game where you have to "think" before you do stuff. I would love to see you explain that because when I played it seemed like every other mmorpg I've ever played only it sucked ass. Honestly how much thought process do you put toward playing Vanguard? I am ****ing baffled when people say this.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
If Sony is keeping The Matrix Online up, there's little chance they'll toss Vanguard. I am looking forward to checking out Vanguard in 6 months or a year from now when my real life settles down and I have the money that I feel I can spend on a new computer. I figure by then the major kinks will be worked out. I am pretty confident that the game will still be there waiting for me.
Bolded part QFT. If MxO is still hanging in there, SOE won't be dropping VSoH any time soon. Low subscription numbers may only result in Sigil spending less in maintenance and updates.
As for the rest of the quote, I agree. Personally, I've made the mistake investing in a broken game: SWG. VSoH has some interesting concepts, so I'm willing to keep watching and see what direction SOE/Sigil take. I'll not pay for 'potential' again.
If in 6 months I see improvement in quality (ie. less bugs , less performance issues), then I'll most likely subscribe.
Sony got MxO for a bargain when they bought the rights to Marvel MMO. That is why MxO still exists because most likely it's pure profit with very few devs working on it. They most likely don't have debt to get out from under (which WB probably took the hit for).
Sony doesn't own Vanguard. So unless they were the ones who loaned all the money to Sigil to buyout MS, Sony couldn't give a rats rear if Sigil/Vanguard failed. I would expect the day that Sigil call's up and says we can't pay your monthly fee for Server Hosting/Billing/CS, SOE will say pull the plug and Sigil will be looking for a new host.
Welp i find being from UO, AC1,AC2, SWG, COV, EvE, Ragnarok, L2, SB, EaB, EQ2, WoW, Daoc, Horizons, that Vagard is a pretty shitty game and wont go far. Actually it has already gone as far as it will ever go and that was the day of release. I cannot believe they charged us $50 for this pos, clearly that was only to try and cover the huge amount of money SOE knew they were going to lose with this steaming pile of an mmo. No way is this pos worth $50. So many other games had a better product at launch, but if people keep buying into the dream of a perfect mmo I guess we will see much more of these types of pos launches from mmo's. I also feel that if this does become a common practice there needs to be a way to get a refund for the purchase, its pretty much like buying shit in a box. I think its BS that they got away with my $50. If anything we should be able to sue them for emotional distress because in the weeks I played this game I got pissed off more then had fun.
I am trying to get you Grunch For one SWG was 49.95+29.95x3 for the expan. then WoW was 39.95+ its expan both you pay $15 a month for is it you don't want to pay this or is WoW more to your train of thought? One of the only reasons I have seen why someone doesn't like this game is because they have to think before you acted.
Please tell me all about how Vanguard has revolutionized the mmorpg market by making a game where you have to "think" before you do stuff. I would love to see you explain that because when I played it seemed like every other mmorpg I've ever played only it sucked ass. Honestly how much thought process do you put toward playing Vanguard? I am ****ing baffled when people say this.
It's very thought extensive for those who do very little thinking normally.
I am trying to get you Grunch For one SWG was 49.95+29.95x3 for the expan. then WoW was 39.95+ its expan both you pay $15 a month for is it you don't want to pay this or is WoW more to your train of thought? One of the only reasons I have seen why someone doesn't like this game is because they have to think before you acted.
Uhm, let me see if I get this straight, the only reason why people disliked VG was because they had to think every time before Grunch acted ... weird ...
Sure the game will survive. But the playerbase will only be the vanbois and people who enjoy paying for beta. The game will never be nearly as complete as it should have been on release. Since release server population has crumbled. Theres no end game content what so ever. Theres no helm graphics (lmao) all the armor looks pretty much the same. It's just a half assed game that people say will be good in 6 months, when in reality, in 6 months there will be probably 250 subscribers who are all level 50 and petition to the GMs constantly asking when their class is going to be fixed. The game just needs to die. VANBOIS WAKE UP FROM YOUR DREAM!!
Ya helm graphics i remember standing in the Ironforge plaza with 400 other players and out of all of them 3 people would be standing in there looking like dorks with there helms showing
Sure the game will survive. But the playerbase will only be the vanbois and people who enjoy paying for beta. The game will never be nearly as complete as it should have been on release. Since release server population has crumbled. Theres no end game content what so ever. Theres no helm graphics (lmao) all the armor looks pretty much the same. It's just a half assed game that people say will be good in 6 months, when in reality, in 6 months there will be probably 250 subscribers who are all level 50 and petition to the GMs constantly asking when their class is going to be fixed. The game just needs to die. VANBOIS WAKE UP FROM YOUR DREAM!!
Ya helm graphics i remember standing in the Ironforge plaza with 400 other players and out of all of them 3 people would be standing in there looking like dorks with there helms showing Well, then I could easily say : helms were designed poorly. Take a look at some AoC screens, those helms I am sure i'll leave visible.
Originally posted by random11 Furthermore with the astonishing number of hair styles, it is a real problem not to have helm graphics.But then again, this is another game design problem, because they use models extensively, not skins, and that means more coding to make helms proper.Pure amateur dev team.
What is the name of the game you designed and programmed? I want to try it.
Furthermore with the astonishing number of hair styles, it is a real problem not to have helm graphics. But then again, this is another game design problem, because they use models extensively, not skins, and that means more coding to make helms proper. Pure amateur dev team.
What is the name of the game you designed and programmed? I want to try it.
I designed no games, but I learn these stuff at college, so I know the theory damn well.
As long as we are the costumers and they are the providers, I have every right to criticize, because they made elemental mistakes.
And btw, what does your question relate to, what is your point?
I designed no games, but I learn these stuff at college, so I know the theory damn well.
Been designing and release software for almost 20 years now.... (no games..sigh) and I hate to break it to you...but all the stuff you're learning at college? Total BS... when you get out here in the real world to code you'll use almost none of it....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by random11 Originally posted by DMEnoc
Originally posted by random11 Furthermore with the astonishing number of hair styles, it is a real problem not to have helm graphics. But then again, this is another game design problem, because they use models extensively, not skins, and that means more coding to make helms proper. Pure amateur dev team.
What is the name of the game you designed and programmed? I want to try it. I designed no games, but I learn these stuff at college, so I know the theory damn well.
As long as we are the costumers and they are the providers, I have every right to criticize, because they made elemental mistakes.
And btw, what does your question relate to, what is your point?
It relates to the fact that you know more about game design and programming than the guys at Sigil and since I enjoy that game, yours must be better. I want to try yours.
I designed no games, but I learn these stuff at college, so I know the theory damn well.
Been designing and release software for almost 20 years now.... (no games..sigh) and I hate to break it to you...but all the stuff you're learning at college? Total BS... when you get out here in the real world to code you'll use almost none of it....
Well, that seems to be true most of the time, but depends greatly on the teachers, and the optional classes I take. I did learn game design this year (graphical design), and a whole lot of theoretical stuff, that you might consider boring, but if implemented will save FPS a lot.
Btw, we are creating an RPG game, it's an indie, 3 friends from college, and luckily I have a pure genius who handles the graphical engine, right now the whole thing doesn't look all that bright, but it shall be a decent indie game in like a year or so. We started from a budget of 7k $, not 30 mill. With 30 mill in my country we could make a heck of a good game, not rubbish.
Furthermore with the astonishing number of hair styles, it is a real problem not to have helm graphics.
But then again, this is another game design problem, because they use models extensively, not skins, and that means more coding to make helms proper.
Pure amateur dev team.
What is the name of the game you designed and programmed? I want to try it.
I designed no games, but I learn these stuff at college, so I know the theory damn well.
As long as we are the costumers and they are the providers, I have every right to criticize, because they made elemental mistakes.
And btw, what does your question relate to, what is your point?
It relates to the fact that you know more about game design and programming than the guys at Sigil and since I enjoy that game, yours must be better. I want to try yours.
How should I put this: I don't have to be a game designer to see design flaws. It's like when I go to the dentist and he starts operating on my knees, I don't have to have a degree in healthcare to know he is doing something wrong.
Furthermore with the astonishing number of hair styles, it is a real problem not to have helm graphics.
But then again, this is another game design problem, because they use models extensively, not skins, and that means more coding to make helms proper.
Pure amateur dev team.
What is the name of the game you designed and programmed? I want to try it.
I designed no games, but I learn these stuff at college, so I know the theory damn well.
As long as we are the costumers and they are the providers, I have every right to criticize, because they made elemental mistakes.
And btw, what does your question relate to, what is your point?
It relates to the fact that you know more about game design and programming than the guys at Sigil and since I enjoy that game, yours must be better. I want to try yours.
I'm pretty sure you've complained about a bad weather report, and you aren't a meteorologist. Your order wasn't quite right at a fast food window, yet you probably don't have the Big Mac song memorized. etc. etc.
There's nothing unusual or wrong with criticism, especially from consumers. We do it all the time. You should try it!
Originally posted by sepher Originally posted by DMEnoc
Originally posted by random11
Originally posted by DMEnoc Originally posted by random11 Furthermore with the astonishing number of hair styles, it is a real problem not to have helm graphics. But then again, this is another game design problem, because they use models extensively, not skins, and that means more coding to make helms proper. Pure amateur dev team.
What is the name of the game you designed and programmed? I want to try it. I designed no games, but I learn these stuff at college, so I know the theory damn well. As long as we are the costumers and they are the providers, I have every right to criticize, because they made elemental mistakes. And btw, what does your question relate to, what is your point? It relates to the fact that you know more about game design and programming than the guys at Sigil and since I enjoy that game, yours must be better. I want to try yours. I'm pretty sure you've complained about a bad weather report, and you aren't a meteorologist. Your order wasn't quite right at a fast food window, yet you probably don't have the Big Mac song memorized. etc. etc.
There's nothing unusual or wrong with criticism, especially from consumers. We do it all the time. You should try it!
Actually I live in Michigan so I can't complain about bad weather reports.
The point is, I don't claim to be an expert in meteorology or commercial song lyrics. He is claiming that he is an expert in game design and programming (in both calling the game bad design and saying the dev's are just amatures). When you call yourself an expert, whether outright or implied, you should be able to back it up.
Critisizing the game is one thing and I can understand that. He did not do that. He critisized the dev's abilities and creativity.
Actually I live in Michigan so I can't complain about bad weather reports. The point is, I don't claim to be an expert in meteorology or commercial song lyrics. He is claiming that he is an expert in game design and programming (in both calling the game bad design and saying the dev's are just amatures). When you call yourself an expert, whether outright or implied, you should be able to back it up. Critisizing the game is one thing and I can understand that. He did not do that. He critisized the dev's abilities and creativity.
That's exactly what I criticized, I call them amateurs. Everybody has a level of expertise, and if something is in your of interval, you can understand and criticize.
All that said, I am no expert, but even I can tell some design faults, making them pretty amateurs.
bug's and chunks and it runs very slow on my computer. I even get some grafical errors after i play for to long. I dont have mutch time to play irl ither no adays. The game will be good and was kinda fun there for a while. but i wont play it, i resent the fact that i bought a beta and spent more time arguing on how to do stuff and why things are standing still or not working properly then i accualy spent on looking at views and fighting monsters and having fun.
I canceled, and it hurt to do it. i realy looked forward to the game, but i cant play it. It's not what i expected from a huge game producer. And my irl situation is not so forgiving when it comes to me living infront of my computer (cause that is what you more or less have to do, solo content my ass)
wish i was 14 and had a very rich dad who gave me an extreem computer to play with
I believe it will last along time because of the backing from SOE, although they have to move fast before the majority of the Population moves to one of the new MMO's coming out this year. Also IMO with DX10 coming Id say its safe to say that AOC and WAR will be even more emersive and coupled with the new Tech even better graphics.
Now that is funny someone defending the incompetent devs, especially the lead designer who can't make his mind up about anything. Now he is a walking disaster waiting to happen.
These guys are rookies, they have never done a MMO before, it is very evident in the state of the game. I liked parts of the game, but other parts really turned me off, the need to group, traveling distances, broken quests....
Let's face it they got it part right and it can be a great game if they listen some to the playerbase. I don't think that is going to happen. I hope I am wrong.
You never know, Sony took a lackluster EQ2 and made something decent of it, guess we will just have to wait and see.
In answer to the original posters message i do indeed think with the investment in pure capital alone and the time and resources sank into the creation of Vanguard that there will be MANY vested 3rd parties outside of sigil the developer that will not want to see the application fail, and for that reason alone i believe even on low subscription numbers, or subscription numbers that are not quite as expected (As revealed by Brad Mcquiad) i believe the game will continue to hobble along. However the rate of the much required polish and expansion of content i believe in my opinion could suffer if income generation is low perhaps. And this is a kick to the nuts vanguard just doesnt need at present.
Im a systems engineer by trade and have a number of highly optimized machines i use for gaming for me and friends here in the UK.
I have since played, attempted to tweak to death and since cancelled from Vanguard as have many of my friends and a few family members. Performance and polish in games is very much a key requirement in gaming for us now....but to each their own. ;-)
There are a few items i feel however that are very key for the vanguard developers to address at this point in time however with the performance issues the application faces being high on the list of catalysts i see currently driving people away from the game or keeping them from signing up. And ultimately a polished vanguard with a high population is something i would love to see, but below are just a few of my thoughts.
Heavy Usage of Graphics and High Systems demands of the Application.
With this in mind Vanguard needs in order to run at high quality graphics settings with lots of effects enabled, seemingly powerful PC Hardware tuned for gaming applications (Hardware which sigil have said they were under the impression would be available / cheaper by now). However i feel the application is not helping itself currently by an engine and code that is in obvious need of further optimizations to make it approachable by the mass of "average gamers", "gamers that simply meet boxed specifications and expect a playable experience with no tweaking required out of the box". It is also clear that with vanguards massive budget and development costs it was never intended (at least now as confirmed by Brad Mcquiad) to exist as simply a "niche game". Its budget and dev time and costs to a certain extent "dictate" that.
However despite its need for future technology to advance and become cheaper and more accessible this has two large counter arguments. "What is out there at present available on the market not supported by vanguard" and the fact "large numbers of performance problems have been reported on high end hardware". Vanguard does not support Nvidias SLI or ATI's crossfire technologies at present. Vanguard is not optimized to take advantage of multiple CPU cores/Threads at a code level.Vanguard does not support environment drop shadowing and lighting in hardware which is a capability of most modern graphics card. Vanguard doesnt use Shader Model 3 extensions that are far more efficient with system resources, again supported by most current mid to high range graphics chipsets. Vanguard does not support full scene anti aliasing a technology available in hardware now for many many years. Vanguard's current graphics engine is at present state somewhat heavily customized and considerably old by todays standards, although it is upgradeable and versatile which is a massive positive for the future it is certainly hurting the applications performance at present. It is also hard for a developer to claim game code is somewhat so advanced that it requires future investment in technology when it doesnt even fully support what is there and available to the computer gamer in todays market now. Vanguard also performs poorly with tweaking on multiple high end gaming platforms seen in the technical forums and posts across the net. This would very much assume the work here has to be done by the developer to optimize and polish the games code and raise the profile of vanguard for a further mass of games players to be attracted...thus making it healthier and more stable in its position as an MMORPG with a strong future. At the moment its performance problems and need for optimization is really really hurting its market potential which in game mechanics i believe it truly has just that, massive potential. It is such a crying shame. Throwing hardware and high clock speeds and memory at an application which is poorly opitmized and in need of polish will not paper the cracks.
So yes Vanguard i believe will continue to exist. But in what guise and how it will be remembered by the mass of the games playing public will be down to the efforts of the developer alone giving this game the attention in critical areas it deserves and not the end users ability to buy more advanced hardware components and platforms abive and beyond what is already currently available and not even supported by the application.
Welp i find being from UO, AC1,AC2, SWG, COV, EvE, Ragnarok, L2, SB, EaB, EQ2, WoW, Daoc, Horizons, that Vagard is a pretty shitty game and wont go far. Actually it has already gone as far as it will ever go and that was the day of release. I cannot believe they charged us $50 for this pos, clearly that was only to try and cover the huge amount of money SOE knew they were going to lose with this steaming pile of an mmo. No way is this pos worth $50. So many other games had a better product at launch, but if people keep buying into the dream of a perfect mmo I guess we will see much more of these types of pos launches from mmo's. I also feel that if this does become a common practice there needs to be a way to get a refund for the purchase, its pretty much like buying shit in a box. I think its BS that they got away with my $50. If anything we should be able to sue them for emotional distress because in the weeks I played this game I got pissed off more then had fun.
I am trying to get you Grunch For one SWG was 49.95+29.95x3 for the expan. then WoW was 39.95+ its expan both you pay $15 a month for is it you don't want to pay this or is WoW more to your train of thought? One of the only reasons I have seen why someone doesn't like this game is because they have to think before you acted.
Please tell me all about how Vanguard has revolutionized the mmorpg market by making a game where you have to "think" before you do stuff. I would love to see you explain that because when I played it seemed like every other mmorpg I've ever played only it sucked ass. Honestly how much thought process do you put toward playing Vanguard? I am ****ing baffled when people say this.
You never heard of a death penalty go ahead run around like an idiot in vanguard and you will find your self going into negitive xp real fast . atleast in vanguard you do have to think abit before you do things or your just going to frustrate yourself. I laugh every time i think about you standind at the counter paying for vanguard , Thank you for supporting the game i love lol
Welp i find being from UO, AC1,AC2, SWG, COV, EvE, Ragnarok, L2, SB, EaB, EQ2, WoW, Daoc, Horizons, that Vagard is a pretty shitty game and wont go far. Actually it has already gone as far as it will ever go and that was the day of release. I cannot believe they charged us $50 for this pos, clearly that was only to try and cover the huge amount of money SOE knew they were going to lose with this steaming pile of an mmo. No way is this pos worth $50. So many other games had a better product at launch, but if people keep buying into the dream of a perfect mmo I guess we will see much more of these types of pos launches from mmo's. I also feel that if this does become a common practice there needs to be a way to get a refund for the purchase, its pretty much like buying shit in a box. I think its BS that they got away with my $50. If anything we should be able to sue them for emotional distress because in the weeks I played this game I got pissed off more then had fun.
I am trying to get you Grunch For one SWG was 49.95+29.95x3 for the expan. then WoW was 39.95+ its expan both you pay $15 a month for is it you don't want to pay this or is WoW more to your train of thought? One of the only reasons I have seen why someone doesn't like this game is because they have to think before you acted.
Please tell me all about how Vanguard has revolutionized the mmorpg market by making a game where you have to "think" before you do stuff. I would love to see you explain that because when I played it seemed like every other mmorpg I've ever played only it sucked ass. Honestly how much thought process do you put toward playing Vanguard? I am ****ing baffled when people say this.
You never heard of a death penalty go ahead run around like an idiot in vanguard and you will find your self going into negitive xp real fast . atleast in vanguard you do have to think abit before you do things or your just going to frustrate yourself. I laugh every time i think about you standind at the counter paying for vanguard , Thank you for supporting the game i love lol
You are right but havn't you noticed many of these "haters" really do not have a ability to THINK.
Welp i find being from UO, AC1,AC2, SWG, COV, EvE, Ragnarok, L2, SB, EaB, EQ2, WoW, Daoc, Horizons, that Vagard is a pretty shitty game and wont go far. Actually it has already gone as far as it will ever go and that was the day of release. I cannot believe they charged us $50 for this pos, clearly that was only to try and cover the huge amount of money SOE knew they were going to lose with this steaming pile of an mmo. No way is this pos worth $50. So many other games had a better product at launch, but if people keep buying into the dream of a perfect mmo I guess we will see much more of these types of pos launches from mmo's. I also feel that if this does become a common practice there needs to be a way to get a refund for the purchase, its pretty much like buying shit in a box. I think its BS that they got away with my $50. If anything we should be able to sue them for emotional distress because in the weeks I played this game I got pissed off more then had fun.
I am trying to get you Grunch For one SWG was 49.95+29.95x3 for the expan. then WoW was 39.95+ its expan both you pay $15 a month for is it you don't want to pay this or is WoW more to your train of thought? One of the only reasons I have seen why someone doesn't like this game is because they have to think before you acted.
Please tell me all about how Vanguard has revolutionized the mmorpg market by making a game where you have to "think" before you do stuff. I would love to see you explain that because when I played it seemed like every other mmorpg I've ever played only it sucked ass. Honestly how much thought process do you put toward playing Vanguard? I am ****ing baffled when people say this.
You never heard of a death penalty go ahead run around like an idiot in vanguard and you will find your self going into negitive xp real fast . atleast in vanguard you do have to think abit before you do things or your just going to frustrate yourself. I laugh every time i think about you standind at the counter paying for vanguard , Thank you for supporting the game i love lol
You are right but havn't you noticed many of these "haters" really do not have a ability to THINK.
I'm glad you've found a niche in life that makes you smarter than the average joe, but I wouldn't go put myself on a pedestal because of some masochistic tendency I have about "death penalties".
Exactly what measure if genius thinking does it take to intuitively adjust yourself to the same ol' aggro circles every other MMO uses? Just because someone in WoW might jump off Thunderbluff for "fun", suffering only a spirit run and repair bill, and you're clinching your ass for two hours running through a patch of super scorpions in Vanguard avoiding "frustration", you feel one game requires more thinking than another?
For all this mess about Vanguard being a giant immersive world full of exploration, what's the freakin' point if you're afraid to stray off the beaten path? Every mechanic in an MMO is supposed to be built around FUN, not frustration. A mistake Sigil made in believing there was more than a handful of your masochistic kinds who pride yourselves on your ability to bend over and take it without complaint; and somehow translate what happened to you as a mental exercise.
Fortunately, the death penalty is lessening and Sigil is getting a better idea that a majority of MMO players play these GAMES as GAMES. No one wants a "frustrating" pastime, simply a fun one. It's a cop out, and quite frankly poor design to try and flesh risk vs. reward with obvious frustrations. In MMOs, the whole challenge of designing them is to mitigate frustration but still punish mistakes with increasing the greater timesink of it all. Why not praise World of Warcraft for it's use of durability damage primarily? Exactly what's the difference when a raid in World of Warcraft ends over 20+ people in red gear vs. 20+ people in Vanguard with negative experience? They both failed, just one group only has to recoup gold doing something "fun" in a comparable amount of time period the other spends "frustrated" with debt.
Anyway, it doesn't matter. Sigil's realized they misjudged the amount of people who have that silly attitude of yours towards MMOs and are correcting the game. It hasn't even been three months and the game is already a lot more forgiving. Give it six more months and it'll be WoW. Maybe you'll conform to the new, pleasant, casual fun-inclined gamespace of today. Not the unhealthy, sadistic mess of yesterday that somehow makes you feel deserving of your brain cells and testes.
I'm using my Vanguard disk as a cup holder for my coffee. The game was not for me. It was buggy soon as I installed it. I will never, ever buy a SOE product ever again. Such a shame, I liked EQ2. But I would rather stare at my cats winking eye than play Vanguard again.
Comments
Bolded part QFT. If MxO is still hanging in there, SOE won't be dropping VSoH any time soon. Low subscription numbers may only result in Sigil spending less in maintenance and updates.
As for the rest of the quote, I agree. Personally, I've made the mistake investing in a broken game: SWG. VSoH has some interesting concepts, so I'm willing to keep watching and see what direction SOE/Sigil take. I'll not pay for 'potential' again.
If in 6 months I see improvement in quality (ie. less bugs , less performance issues), then I'll most likely subscribe.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Please tell me all about how Vanguard has revolutionized the mmorpg market by making a game where you have to "think" before you do stuff. I would love to see you explain that because when I played it seemed like every other mmorpg I've ever played only it sucked ass. Honestly how much thought process do you put toward playing Vanguard? I am ****ing baffled when people say this.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
Bolded part QFT. If MxO is still hanging in there, SOE won't be dropping VSoH any time soon. Low subscription numbers may only result in Sigil spending less in maintenance and updates.
As for the rest of the quote, I agree. Personally, I've made the mistake investing in a broken game: SWG. VSoH has some interesting concepts, so I'm willing to keep watching and see what direction SOE/Sigil take. I'll not pay for 'potential' again.
If in 6 months I see improvement in quality (ie. less bugs , less performance issues), then I'll most likely subscribe.
Sony got MxO for a bargain when they bought the rights to Marvel MMO. That is why MxO still exists because most likely it's pure profit with very few devs working on it. They most likely don't have debt to get out from under (which WB probably took the hit for).Sony doesn't own Vanguard. So unless they were the ones who loaned all the money to Sigil to buyout MS, Sony couldn't give a rats rear if Sigil/Vanguard failed. I would expect the day that Sigil call's up and says we can't pay your monthly fee for Server Hosting/Billing/CS, SOE will say pull the plug and Sigil will be looking for a new host.
Please tell me all about how Vanguard has revolutionized the mmorpg market by making a game where you have to "think" before you do stuff. I would love to see you explain that because when I played it seemed like every other mmorpg I've ever played only it sucked ass. Honestly how much thought process do you put toward playing Vanguard? I am ****ing baffled when people say this.
It's very thought extensive for those who do very little thinking normally.But then again, this is another game design problem, because they use models extensively, not skins, and that means more coding to make helms proper.
Pure amateur dev team.
What is the name of the game you designed and programmed? I want to try it.
What is the name of the game you designed and programmed? I want to try it.
I designed no games, but I learn these stuff at college, so I know the theory damn well.As long as we are the costumers and they are the providers, I have every right to criticize, because they made elemental mistakes.
And btw, what does your question relate to, what is your point?
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I designed no games, but I learn these stuff at college, so I know the theory damn well.
As long as we are the costumers and they are the providers, I have every right to criticize, because they made elemental mistakes.
And btw, what does your question relate to, what is your point?
It relates to the fact that you know more about game design and programming than the guys at Sigil and since I enjoy that game, yours must be better. I want to try yours.
Well, that seems to be true most of the time, but depends greatly on the teachers, and the optional classes I take. I did learn game design this year (graphical design), and a whole lot of theoretical stuff, that you might consider boring, but if implemented will save FPS a lot.
Btw, we are creating an RPG game, it's an indie, 3 friends from college, and luckily I have a pure genius who handles the graphical engine, right now the whole thing doesn't look all that bright, but it shall be a decent indie game in like a year or so. We started from a budget of 7k $, not 30 mill. With 30 mill in my country we could make a heck of a good game, not rubbish.
What is the name of the game you designed and programmed? I want to try it.
I designed no games, but I learn these stuff at college, so I know the theory damn well.
As long as we are the costumers and they are the providers, I have every right to criticize, because they made elemental mistakes.
And btw, what does your question relate to, what is your point?
It relates to the fact that you know more about game design and programming than the guys at Sigil and since I enjoy that game, yours must be better. I want to try yours.
How should I put this: I don't have to be a game designer to see design flaws. It's like when I go to the dentist and he starts operating on my knees, I don't have to have a degree in healthcare to know he is doing something wrong.What is the name of the game you designed and programmed? I want to try it.
I designed no games, but I learn these stuff at college, so I know the theory damn well.
As long as we are the costumers and they are the providers, I have every right to criticize, because they made elemental mistakes.
And btw, what does your question relate to, what is your point?
It relates to the fact that you know more about game design and programming than the guys at Sigil and since I enjoy that game, yours must be better. I want to try yours.
I'm pretty sure you've complained about a bad weather report, and you aren't a meteorologist. Your order wasn't quite right at a fast food window, yet you probably don't have the Big Mac song memorized. etc. etc.There's nothing unusual or wrong with criticism, especially from consumers. We do it all the time. You should try it!
I designed no games, but I learn these stuff at college, so I know the theory damn well.
As long as we are the costumers and they are the providers, I have every right to criticize, because they made elemental mistakes.
And btw, what does your question relate to, what is your point?
It relates to the fact that you know more about game design and programming than the guys at Sigil and since I enjoy that game, yours must be better. I want to try yours.
I'm pretty sure you've complained about a bad weather report, and you aren't a meteorologist. Your order wasn't quite right at a fast food window, yet you probably don't have the Big Mac song memorized. etc. etc.
There's nothing unusual or wrong with criticism, especially from consumers. We do it all the time. You should try it!
Actually I live in Michigan so I can't complain about bad weather reports.
The point is, I don't claim to be an expert in meteorology or commercial song lyrics. He is claiming that he is an expert in game design and programming (in both calling the game bad design and saying the dev's are just amatures). When you call yourself an expert, whether outright or implied, you should be able to back it up.
Critisizing the game is one thing and I can understand that. He did not do that. He critisized the dev's abilities and creativity.
All that said, I am no expert, but even I can tell some design faults, making them pretty amateurs.
logical enough?
bug's and chunks and it runs very slow on my computer. I even get some grafical errors after i play for to long. I dont have mutch time to play irl ither no adays. The game will be good and was kinda fun there for a while. but i wont play it, i resent the fact that i bought a beta and spent more time arguing on how to do stuff and why things are standing still or not working properly then i accualy spent on looking at views and fighting monsters and having fun.
I canceled, and it hurt to do it. i realy looked forward to the game, but i cant play it. It's not what i expected from a huge game producer. And my irl situation is not so forgiving when it comes to me living infront of my computer (cause that is what you more or less have to do, solo content my ass)
wish i was 14 and had a very rich dad who gave me an extreem computer to play with
Now that is funny someone defending the incompetent devs, especially the lead designer who can't make his mind up about anything. Now he is a walking disaster waiting to happen.
These guys are rookies, they have never done a MMO before, it is very evident in the state of the game. I liked parts of the game, but other parts really turned me off, the need to group, traveling distances, broken quests....
Let's face it they got it part right and it can be a great game if they listen some to the playerbase. I don't think that is going to happen. I hope I am wrong.
You never know, Sony took a lackluster EQ2 and made something decent of it, guess we will just have to wait and see.
Hi folks.
In answer to the original posters message i do indeed think with the investment in pure capital alone and the time and resources sank into the creation of Vanguard that there will be MANY vested 3rd parties outside of sigil the developer that will not want to see the application fail, and for that reason alone i believe even on low subscription numbers, or subscription numbers that are not quite as expected (As revealed by Brad Mcquiad) i believe the game will continue to hobble along. However the rate of the much required polish and expansion of content i believe in my opinion could suffer if income generation is low perhaps. And this is a kick to the nuts vanguard just doesnt need at present.
Im a systems engineer by trade and have a number of highly optimized machines i use for gaming for me and friends here in the UK.
I have since played, attempted to tweak to death and since cancelled from Vanguard as have many of my friends and a few family members. Performance and polish in games is very much a key requirement in gaming for us now....but to each their own. ;-)
There are a few items i feel however that are very key for the vanguard developers to address at this point in time however with the performance issues the application faces being high on the list of catalysts i see currently driving people away from the game or keeping them from signing up. And ultimately a polished vanguard with a high population is something i would love to see, but below are just a few of my thoughts.
Heavy Usage of Graphics and High Systems demands of the Application.
With this in mind Vanguard needs in order to run at high quality graphics settings with lots of effects enabled, seemingly powerful PC Hardware tuned for gaming applications (Hardware which sigil have said they were under the impression would be available / cheaper by now). However i feel the application is not helping itself currently by an engine and code that is in obvious need of further optimizations to make it approachable by the mass of "average gamers", "gamers that simply meet boxed specifications and expect a playable experience with no tweaking required out of the box". It is also clear that with vanguards massive budget and development costs it was never intended (at least now as confirmed by Brad Mcquiad) to exist as simply a "niche game". Its budget and dev time and costs to a certain extent "dictate" that.
However despite its need for future technology to advance and become cheaper and more accessible this has two large counter arguments. "What is out there at present available on the market not supported by vanguard" and the fact "large numbers of performance problems have been reported on high end hardware". Vanguard does not support Nvidias SLI or ATI's crossfire technologies at present. Vanguard is not optimized to take advantage of multiple CPU cores/Threads at a code level.Vanguard does not support environment drop shadowing and lighting in hardware which is a capability of most modern graphics card. Vanguard doesnt use Shader Model 3 extensions that are far more efficient with system resources, again supported by most current mid to high range graphics chipsets. Vanguard does not support full scene anti aliasing a technology available in hardware now for many many years. Vanguard's current graphics engine is at present state somewhat heavily customized and considerably old by todays standards, although it is upgradeable and versatile which is a massive positive for the future it is certainly hurting the applications performance at present. It is also hard for a developer to claim game code is somewhat so advanced that it requires future investment in technology when it doesnt even fully support what is there and available to the computer gamer in todays market now. Vanguard also performs poorly with tweaking on multiple high end gaming platforms seen in the technical forums and posts across the net. This would very much assume the work here has to be done by the developer to optimize and polish the games code and raise the profile of vanguard for a further mass of games players to be attracted...thus making it healthier and more stable in its position as an MMORPG with a strong future. At the moment its performance problems and need for optimization is really really hurting its market potential which in game mechanics i believe it truly has just that, massive potential. It is such a crying shame. Throwing hardware and high clock speeds and memory at an application which is poorly opitmized and in need of polish will not paper the cracks.
So yes Vanguard i believe will continue to exist. But in what guise and how it will be remembered by the mass of the games playing public will be down to the efforts of the developer alone giving this game the attention in critical areas it deserves and not the end users ability to buy more advanced hardware components and platforms abive and beyond what is already currently available and not even supported by the application.
Just my thoughts, thanks for listening.
Mag
Please tell me all about how Vanguard has revolutionized the mmorpg market by making a game where you have to "think" before you do stuff. I would love to see you explain that because when I played it seemed like every other mmorpg I've ever played only it sucked ass. Honestly how much thought process do you put toward playing Vanguard? I am ****ing baffled when people say this.
You never heard of a death penalty go ahead run around like an idiot in vanguard and you will find your self going into negitive xp real fast . atleast in vanguard you do have to think abit before you do things or your just going to frustrate yourself. I laugh every time i think about you standind at the counter paying for vanguard , Thank you for supporting the game i love lolPlease tell me all about how Vanguard has revolutionized the mmorpg market by making a game where you have to "think" before you do stuff. I would love to see you explain that because when I played it seemed like every other mmorpg I've ever played only it sucked ass. Honestly how much thought process do you put toward playing Vanguard? I am ****ing baffled when people say this.
You never heard of a death penalty go ahead run around like an idiot in vanguard and you will find your self going into negitive xp real fast . atleast in vanguard you do have to think abit before you do things or your just going to frustrate yourself. I laugh every time i think about you standind at the counter paying for vanguard , Thank you for supporting the game i love lolYou are right but havn't you noticed many of these "haters" really do not have a ability to THINK.
Please tell me all about how Vanguard has revolutionized the mmorpg market by making a game where you have to "think" before you do stuff. I would love to see you explain that because when I played it seemed like every other mmorpg I've ever played only it sucked ass. Honestly how much thought process do you put toward playing Vanguard? I am ****ing baffled when people say this.
You never heard of a death penalty go ahead run around like an idiot in vanguard and you will find your self going into negitive xp real fast . atleast in vanguard you do have to think abit before you do things or your just going to frustrate yourself. I laugh every time i think about you standind at the counter paying for vanguard , Thank you for supporting the game i love lolYou are right but havn't you noticed many of these "haters" really do not have a ability to THINK.
I'm glad you've found a niche in life that makes you smarter than the average joe, but I wouldn't go put myself on a pedestal because of some masochistic tendency I have about "death penalties".
Exactly what measure if genius thinking does it take to intuitively adjust yourself to the same ol' aggro circles every other MMO uses? Just because someone in WoW might jump off Thunderbluff for "fun", suffering only a spirit run and repair bill, and you're clinching your ass for two hours running through a patch of super scorpions in Vanguard avoiding "frustration", you feel one game requires more thinking than another?
For all this mess about Vanguard being a giant immersive world full of exploration, what's the freakin' point if you're afraid to stray off the beaten path? Every mechanic in an MMO is supposed to be built around FUN, not frustration. A mistake Sigil made in believing there was more than a handful of your masochistic kinds who pride yourselves on your ability to bend over and take it without complaint; and somehow translate what happened to you as a mental exercise.
Fortunately, the death penalty is lessening and Sigil is getting a better idea that a majority of MMO players play these GAMES as GAMES. No one wants a "frustrating" pastime, simply a fun one. It's a cop out, and quite frankly poor design to try and flesh risk vs. reward with obvious frustrations. In MMOs, the whole challenge of designing them is to mitigate frustration but still punish mistakes with increasing the greater timesink of it all. Why not praise World of Warcraft for it's use of durability damage primarily? Exactly what's the difference when a raid in World of Warcraft ends over 20+ people in red gear vs. 20+ people in Vanguard with negative experience? They both failed, just one group only has to recoup gold doing something "fun" in a comparable amount of time period the other spends "frustrated" with debt.
Anyway, it doesn't matter. Sigil's realized they misjudged the amount of people who have that silly attitude of yours towards MMOs and are correcting the game. It hasn't even been three months and the game is already a lot more forgiving. Give it six more months and it'll be WoW. Maybe you'll conform to the new, pleasant, casual fun-inclined gamespace of today. Not the unhealthy, sadistic mess of yesterday that somehow makes you feel deserving of your brain cells and testes.