I still do not understand why gold selling is hated? Could someone please tell me why it is "bad" ? Not just the "its unfair", "selling is bad" and "its not RL" non-arguments.
If you have to ask that then you are more retarded then a peanut. It hurts the community as a whole, And destroys games.
HELLO DUH. How does it hurt the community and how does it destroy games?
Makes the game unfair to others, Not working for what you get is cheap IMO. Makes a lot of things unfair like selling in game stuff for higher prices because you *have* the LARGE amounts of gold to do it, And makes prices sky rocket then what they should be around. Especially with 1-5 million farmers doing it everyday, Not being able to grind while 25 farmers gang on you because they are greedy fucks trying to sell in game currency for real life cash. Its the same with cheating in a game, Where is the fun in it?. People wanna buy gold so they can act like they are some gods because they have high superior armor and weapons etc. They have to hold down a stupid in game reputation to look "cool". Fu** that, I hate newbs who buy gold and try to act like they aren't REAL NEWBS.
I still do not understand why gold selling is hated? Could someone please tell me why it is "bad" ? Not just the "its unfair", "selling is bad" and "its not RL" non-arguments.
If you have to ask that then you are more retarded then a peanut. It hurts the community as a whole, And destroys games.
HELLO DUH.How does it hurt the community and how does it destroy games?
Makes the game unfair to others, Not working for what you get is cheap IMO. Makes a lot of things unfair like selling in game stuff for higher prices because you *have* the LARGE amounts of gold to do it, And makes prices sky rocket then what they should be around. Especially with 1-5 million farmers doing it everyday, Not being able to grind while 25 farmers gang on you because they are greedy fucks trying to sell in game currency for real life cash. Its the same with cheating in a game, Where is the fun in it?. People wanna buy gold so they can act like they are some gods because they have high superior armor and weapons etc. They have to hold down a stupid in game reputation to look "cool". Fu** that, I hate newbs who buy gold and try to act like they aren't REAL NEWBS.
Dam straight! You end up with people selling items for high prices because of noobs with too much real money on their hands, and the noobs buy the items without question inflating the economy.
I couldn't agree with you more Xstortion.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
I fail to see why so many people are placing the burden of proof on the OP. 'IF you're innocent...' I say, f*ck off. If he says he's innocent then he's frickin' innocent unless you can prove otherwise. Not the other way around.
As much as I don't like SOE, I don't think you can blame THEM... in all my years playing EQ and even later in EQ2 I never saw them ban "known" gold sellers. Everyone on FV knew who the sellers were, and they were there day after day, month after month, year after year.
I fail to see why so many people are placing the burden of proof on the OP. 'IF you're innocent...' I say, f*ck off. If he says he's innocent then he's frickin' innocent unless you can prove otherwise. Not the other way around.
There are quite a few of people out there that are willing to lie about a game so people wil not play it.... I don't blame people for being suspicious...
That said, a guild member recently received 4 gold in her mail box from someone she didnt know, she reported it to a GM and he looked into it and told her that it came from a known gold seller that was recently banned. He thanked her for being honest and nothing else came of it...
I think when a gold seller knowns he's going to get baned he probably sends the gold to someone he sees near by to get them in trouble, now if this person doesnt report it and goes and spends it, then yes, Sigil is going to think you bought gold from this person and odds are your account will be banned...
For those asking, the main reason buying gold hurts the game is that it will drive up the prices of items wihtin the game.... If enough people buy gold then that sword you were thinking about buying for 2 gold is know going to cost you 10 gold.. Gold buying artificially creates inflation with in the economy.
I still do not understand why gold selling is hated? Could someone please tell me why it is "bad" ? Not just the "its unfair", "selling is bad" and "its not RL" non-arguments.
If you have to ask that then you are more retarded then a peanut. It hurts the community as a whole, And destroys games.
HELLO DUH.How does it hurt the community and how does it destroy games?
Makes the game unfair to others, Not working for what you get is cheap IMO. Makes a lot of things unfair like selling in game stuff for higher prices because you *have* the LARGE amounts of gold to do it, And makes prices sky rocket then what they should be around. Especially with 1-5 million farmers doing it everyday, Not being able to grind while 25 farmers gang on you because they are greedy fucks trying to sell in game currency for real life cash. Its the same with cheating in a game, Where is the fun in it?. People wanna buy gold so they can act like they are some gods because they have high superior armor and weapons etc. They have to hold down a stupid in game reputation to look "cool". Fu** that, I hate newbs who buy gold and try to act like they aren't REAL NEWBS.
Dam straight! You end up with people selling items for high prices because of noobs with too much real money on their hands, and the noobs buy the items without question inflating the economy.
I couldn't agree with you more Xstortion.
Seriously it is true, And there is nothing I can't stand more then when someone buys gold buys superior gear and weapons and then calls "you" the newb, When really they are the newbs for buying the gold, Not only that but as GEEK as you can get.
Plus I got sick of the spamming in game, In any game rather with gold selling. Someone else makes a great game and gold farmers exploit someone else's hard work to bring out a good game to play, And what do you know they ruin it. In the future of MMO's they need to make gold easier to obtain so that gold sites can't exploit or profit from it.
I fail to see why so many people are placing the burden of proof on the OP. 'IF you're innocent...' I say, f*ck off. If he says he's innocent then he's frickin' innocent unless you can prove otherwise. Not the other way around.
Well, OP brought the issue here, so he's open to being questioned about his claims. Frankly, as this is not a court of law in the United States, he is not entitled to a presumption of innocence. The OP provides nothing in the way of proof. If what he says is hinky, we can view whatever he said with skepticism.
As to the poster who asked what was wrong with gold selling/powerleveling, the answer is: It's cheating. Not to mention, it is also against the agreement made when logging in, backed up by consequences if one is caught.
so i emailed Vgaccounts@sigilgames.com and there reply was you have recived 40 in game mail from a known duper and seller with over 40 platinum 40 PLAT!! my god!? first off that would cost me over 5,000 us dollars second my account which my highest level is only level 18 has only had as much as maybe 55 silver no more seriously on top of that i have not gotten any mail from anybody other then RL friends of mine that play this game as well As you can see im severly PISSED off i sent an email back stating they have the wrong account and if this suspension isnt lifted i would cancel my account and would like a refund for my purchase of this game there are too many games out there to put up with BS like this especially when you have done nothing wrong has this happened to anyone else ?
This just happened to my roomie today and there was a thread about it but was moved or deleted uggh.
Just read the topic at silky thread. That's pretty much sums up how Sigil handled it for my roomate too. Since the thread was moved here is how it was handled.
I am suddenly reminded of SWG. There was a dupe found, and a small core of people went berserk duping credits. When word came that the banhammer was coming down, they ran around tipping random people right and left, buying out peoples vendor inventory, and so forth.
SOE, like the giant mutant they are, used a chainsaw to solve a problem that needed a scalpel. So they just ban anyone that had duped credits on them, without bothering to check how they got them. No banning of the dupers, then tracking the credits, and removing them. Or if worse came to worse, roll back the server a day or two, ban the dupers, and give the players two free days extra on their accounts. Nope, too much work, that.
So those that were banned for no reason had to jump through a bunch of hoops to get their accounts back, and as far as I know, they were never refunded the days back that they were banned, or even given a simple "Sorry, we screwed the pooch" from SOE.
While I don't know that the OP is innocent, or no, this certainly smacks of the usual SOE tactic.
Nor would I be surprised to find that someone had discovered a dupe and is sending people gold, or buying items off the AH, knowing full well that Sigil won't check things, those people will just get the banstick for having duped gold. And given the track record so far, it's probably the same dupe I reported back during beta 3.
Ok, so here is another post I dug up from my temporary folders. The original thread was deleted by mods, and probably the guy got a temporary ban for being vulgar in the thread title.
So here it is:
[quote]So I tried to login today and my account has been suspended. just has a message with an email address.
I email them : My account has been suspended, why, and for how long?
their response:
--- Gary Grobson <ggrobson@sigilgames.com> wrote:
>
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Your account was banned for matching an IP to a
> > known coin duper and
> > seller. These players also often engage in other
> > such activities as
> > power-leveling. Power-leveling is not only
> against
> > the EULA for account
> > sharing, it is also against the rules of conduct
great now I'm worried my account was hacked... and now i have to change everything just to be safe... I can not beleive this is how they treat costomers...
and no i do *NOT* powerlevel I do *NOT* dupe I don't buy gold, don't exploit.... crazy...[/quote]
"Also, legally it is you who is responsible for your account security, not us"
No, end users are responsible for securing their passwords. That is not a legal responsibility. Sigil are responsible for account security. The privacy of end user information is a legal responsibility.
Also, Sigil are obliged to maintain adequate logs to reasonably prove abuses of the end user agreement. Having the same IP address does not constitue a reasonable proof unless they can get the ISP to confirm that at both times it was allocated to the same home user.
If you took them to small claims court, you'd have a good chance of winning. Unfortunately, the cost of lodging and hassle of doing the paperwork would outweigh the victory. How righteous are you feeling?
And I looked up this Gary person, he is real and working for Sigil.
Understand your frustration bro, but the Gary person really did nothing wrong, you have to remember you are probebly not the only one, and yeah some like you might have very valid reasons to say and are sure you are not been hacked or used powerlvl'ng but you also know that unfortunaly there are people that can not play games and use these sort of 3rd party stuff and then when get caught mostlikely complain the same way as you did, so i understand somewhere they need to draw a line, and i bet deep down you knew this aswell you seem intelligent enought to already know that
But like i said it sucks when it happens to someone that really isn't doing it. And there should be better ways for both sides to proof guilt or innocence, especialy the company responsible for the banning need to have sufficient proof in order to exicute a ban.
Oh yeah... i was too harsh on the title, I was just very very angry....
It was how the thing went, my accoutn got suspended (i'm upset b/c i want to play, i think lots of people have been gettign mistakingly suspended recently, I just want to know what's up)
So my response is a no response accusing me of having the same IP address as a gold duper.. no wait, seller, no wait Powerleveler.... and oh guess what your banned not suspended.
but i had i was misunderstanding the banned/suspended part...
I guess somehow i didn't respond with the nessicary number of exclamation points in my email, or didn't maintain logs of all my in game transactiosn or something... how can i prove a negative... especially when i can't even log in to access my account.
I'm not in asia, i wouldn't ever dupe (i saw what it did to swg) i didn't powerlevel anyone, nor get powerleveled...
I don't really care if anyoen beleives me, I just needed to vent... tho my wonderful roomate might have made things worse i fear
Comments
HELLO DUH. How does it hurt the community and how does it destroy games?
Makes the game unfair to others, Not working for what you get is cheap IMO. Makes a lot of things unfair like selling in game stuff for higher prices because you *have* the LARGE amounts of gold to do it, And makes prices sky rocket then what they should be around. Especially with 1-5 million farmers doing it everyday, Not being able to grind while 25 farmers gang on you because they are greedy fucks trying to sell in game currency for real life cash. Its the same with cheating in a game, Where is the fun in it?. People wanna buy gold so they can act like they are some gods because they have high superior armor and weapons etc. They have to hold down a stupid in game reputation to look "cool". Fu** that, I hate newbs who buy gold and try to act like they aren't REAL NEWBS.
HELLO DUH.How does it hurt the community and how does it destroy games?
Makes the game unfair to others, Not working for what you get is cheap IMO. Makes a lot of things unfair like selling in game stuff for higher prices because you *have* the LARGE amounts of gold to do it, And makes prices sky rocket then what they should be around. Especially with 1-5 million farmers doing it everyday, Not being able to grind while 25 farmers gang on you because they are greedy fucks trying to sell in game currency for real life cash. Its the same with cheating in a game, Where is the fun in it?. People wanna buy gold so they can act like they are some gods because they have high superior armor and weapons etc. They have to hold down a stupid in game reputation to look "cool". Fu** that, I hate newbs who buy gold and try to act like they aren't REAL NEWBS.
Dam straight! You end up with people selling items for high prices because of noobs with too much real money on their hands, and the noobs buy the items without question inflating the economy.
I couldn't agree with you more Xstortion.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
As much as I don't like SOE, I don't think you can blame THEM... in all my years playing EQ and even later in EQ2 I never saw them ban "known" gold sellers. Everyone on FV knew who the sellers were, and they were there day after day, month after month, year after year.
There are quite a few of people out there that are willing to lie about a game so people wil not play it.... I don't blame people for being suspicious...
That said, a guild member recently received 4 gold in her mail box from someone she didnt know, she reported it to a GM and he looked into it and told her that it came from a known gold seller that was recently banned. He thanked her for being honest and nothing else came of it...
I think when a gold seller knowns he's going to get baned he probably sends the gold to someone he sees near by to get them in trouble, now if this person doesnt report it and goes and spends it, then yes, Sigil is going to think you bought gold from this person and odds are your account will be banned...
For those asking, the main reason buying gold hurts the game is that it will drive up the prices of items wihtin the game.... If enough people buy gold then that sword you were thinking about buying for 2 gold is know going to cost you 10 gold.. Gold buying artificially creates inflation with in the economy.
HELLO DUH.How does it hurt the community and how does it destroy games?
Makes the game unfair to others, Not working for what you get is cheap IMO. Makes a lot of things unfair like selling in game stuff for higher prices because you *have* the LARGE amounts of gold to do it, And makes prices sky rocket then what they should be around. Especially with 1-5 million farmers doing it everyday, Not being able to grind while 25 farmers gang on you because they are greedy fucks trying to sell in game currency for real life cash. Its the same with cheating in a game, Where is the fun in it?. People wanna buy gold so they can act like they are some gods because they have high superior armor and weapons etc. They have to hold down a stupid in game reputation to look "cool". Fu** that, I hate newbs who buy gold and try to act like they aren't REAL NEWBS.
Dam straight! You end up with people selling items for high prices because of noobs with too much real money on their hands, and the noobs buy the items without question inflating the economy.
I couldn't agree with you more Xstortion.
Seriously it is true, And there is nothing I can't stand more then when someone buys gold buys superior gear and weapons and then calls "you" the newb, When really they are the newbs for buying the gold, Not only that but as GEEK as you can get.
Plus I got sick of the spamming in game, In any game rather with gold selling. Someone else makes a great game and gold farmers exploit someone else's hard work to bring out a good game to play, And what do you know they ruin it. In the future of MMO's they need to make gold easier to obtain so that gold sites can't exploit or profit from it.
As to the poster who asked what was wrong with gold selling/powerleveling, the answer is: It's cheating. Not to mention, it is also against the agreement made when logging in, backed up by consequences if one is caught.
Mirrim
Chanter, Spatalos Server
This type of thing is apparently getting far too common:
http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18655
Just read the topic at silky thread. That's pretty much sums up how Sigil handled it for my roomate too. Since the thread was moved here is how it was handled.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/125062
It begins with asking why for the suspension then asks if that means he's banned and progresses downhill from there.
I am suddenly reminded of SWG. There was a dupe found, and a small core of people went berserk duping credits. When word came that the banhammer was coming down, they ran around tipping random people right and left, buying out peoples vendor inventory, and so forth.
SOE, like the giant mutant they are, used a chainsaw to solve a problem that needed a scalpel. So they just ban anyone that had duped credits on them, without bothering to check how they got them. No banning of the dupers, then tracking the credits, and removing them. Or if worse came to worse, roll back the server a day or two, ban the dupers, and give the players two free days extra on their accounts. Nope, too much work, that.
So those that were banned for no reason had to jump through a bunch of hoops to get their accounts back, and as far as I know, they were never refunded the days back that they were banned, or even given a simple "Sorry, we screwed the pooch" from SOE.
While I don't know that the OP is innocent, or no, this certainly smacks of the usual SOE tactic.
Nor would I be surprised to find that someone had discovered a dupe and is sending people gold, or buying items off the AH, knowing full well that Sigil won't check things, those people will just get the banstick for having duped gold. And given the track record so far, it's probably the same dupe I reported back during beta 3.
So here it is:
[quote]So I tried to login today and my account has been suspended. just has a message with an email address.
I email them : My account has been suspended, why, and for how long?
their response:
--- Gary Grobson <ggrobson@sigilgames.com> wrote:
>
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Your account was banned for matching an IP to a
> > known coin duper and
> > seller. These players also often engage in other
> > such activities as
> > power-leveling. Power-leveling is not only
> against
> > the EULA for account
> > sharing, it is also against the rules of conduct
> for
> > violations of the
> > spirit of the game.
> >
> > If you have further questions, please do not
> > hesitate to contact me.
> >
> > Gary Grobson
> > Game Marshal Daegarmo
> > Sigil Games Online, Inc.
> > www.sigil.com | www.vanguardsoh.com
I respond: "so uh my acocunt is suspended forever!"
they respond:
> Unless you have some substantial evidence that we
> have not reviewed then
> the account would be terminated.
>
> Gary Grobson
> Game Marshal Daegarmo
> Sigil Games Online, Inc.
> www.sigil.com | www.vanguardsoh.com
me:
what!?
what kind of evidence could i possibly provide? my
account is suspended!
I have a lvl 20 Disciple, a level 15 Psi, and a lvl 6
rougue... who could I have possibly Powerleved. I at
most have 2 gold between all my characters....
wow, just wow
them:
Level 1 to 20 power leveling services are one of the most common in the
game.
If you have the evidence of where in the world that you logged into, I
would be happy to compare them with the logs that I have, and we can
see
if it is possible that you could have been in those locations at those
times.
Gary Grobson
Game Marshal Daegarmo
Sigil Games Online, Inc.
www.sigil.com | www.vanguardsoh.com
Me: I told them where i'm from (somewhere in the US)
them:
--- Gary Grobson <ggrobson@sigilgames.com> wrote:
> Then why has your account been logged into from
> known powerleveling
> service providers out of Asia?
>
> Gary Grobson
> Game Marshal Daegarmo
> Sigil Games Online, Inc.
> www.sigil.com | www.vanguardsoh.com
me:
From: Ahmed Mohmed [mailto:ahmed@ahmedmohmed.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:08 PM
To: Gary Grobson
Subject: RE: account suspension
that's a damn good question! you're telling me my
acocunt has been hacked! YOU TELL ME BY BANNING MY
ACCOUNT!
Has Sigil no shame?
them:
Do you honestly expect me to believe that someone hacked your account,
so that they could login to the account and level your characters for
you?
Also, legally it is you who is responsible for your account security,
not us. Since you are not going to admit that you were power leveled,
then I will simply have no choice but to ban the account as a
compromised account.
Farewell,
Gary Grobson
Game Marshal Daegarmo
Sigil Games Online, Inc.
www.sigil.com | www.vanguardsoh.com
me:
no worries I just cancelled my subscription....
them:
We wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.
Gary Grobson
Game Marshal Daegarmo
Sigil Games Online, Inc.
www.sigil.com | www.vanguardsoh.com
great now I'm worried my account was hacked... and now i have to change everything just to be safe... I can not beleive this is how they treat costomers...
and no i do *NOT* powerlevel I do *NOT* dupe I don't buy gold, don't exploit.... crazy...[/quote]
"Also, legally it is you who is responsible for your account security, not us"
No, end users are responsible for securing their passwords. That is not a legal responsibility. Sigil are responsible for account security. The privacy of end user information is a legal responsibility.
Also, Sigil are obliged to maintain adequate logs to reasonably prove abuses of the end user agreement. Having the same IP address does not constitue a reasonable proof unless they can get the ISP to confirm that at both times it was allocated to the same home user.
If you took them to small claims court, you'd have a good chance of winning. Unfortunately, the cost of lodging and hassle of doing the paperwork would outweigh the victory. How righteous are you feeling?
Understand your frustration bro, but the Gary person really did nothing wrong, you have to remember you are probebly not the only one, and yeah some like you might have very valid reasons to say and are sure you are not been hacked or used powerlvl'ng but you also know that unfortunaly there are people that can not play games and use these sort of 3rd party stuff and then when get caught mostlikely complain the same way as you did, so i understand somewhere they need to draw a line, and i bet deep down you knew this aswell you seem intelligent enought to already know that
But like i said it sucks when it happens to someone that really isn't doing it. And there should be better ways for both sides to proof guilt or innocence, especialy the company responsible for the banning need to have sufficient proof in order to exicute a ban.
Oh yeah... i was too harsh on the title, I was just very very angry....
It was how the thing went, my accoutn got suspended (i'm upset b/c i want to play, i think lots of people have been gettign mistakingly suspended recently, I just want to know what's up)
So my response is a no response accusing me of having the same IP address as a gold duper.. no wait, seller, no wait Powerleveler.... and oh guess what your banned not suspended.
but i had i was misunderstanding the banned/suspended part...
I guess somehow i didn't respond with the nessicary number of exclamation points in my email, or didn't maintain logs of all my in game transactiosn or something... how can i prove a negative... especially when i can't even log in to access my account.
I'm not in asia, i wouldn't ever dupe (i saw what it did to swg) i didn't powerlevel anyone, nor get powerleveled...
I don't really care if anyoen beleives me, I just needed to vent... tho my wonderful roomate might have made things worse i fear